the continued rise of the right

it looked a while ago that the rise of far right "strong man" leaders was reaching its end, with Bolsonaro and Orban behind in polls.

Orban has won his recent election, by a large margin. there are many concerns about the fairness of the election but he's won.
he received a significant boost after Russia invaded Ukraine interestingly.

Bolsonaro was well behind in polling in Brazil, but is now much closer.

and now in France, one opinion poll has Le Pen ahead of Macron

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/stat...-EpWRLjOw&s=19

It would grim if Le Pen did win in France. I had hoped Bolsonaro’s shameful handling of vivid would have seen him well beaten.

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

It would grim if Le Pen did win in France. I had hoped Bolsonaro’s shameful handling of vivid would have seen him well beaten.

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he's still behind in the poll but gaining I think, and you have to worry what lengths he will go to to cling into power.

his opponent has previously been arrested on bogus charges and barred from contesting a previous election

All over Europe

isn't Le Pen always slightly behind Macron at this stage but then she loses?

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Originally Posted by delmbox

isn't Le Pen always slightly behind Macron at this stage but then she loses?

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I think you're right. They have a system that narrows it down to the last 2, when most right-minded voters vote for whoever's left who isn't Le Pen.

With the exception of France those others countries leaders hold on to power by corruption, eliminating the opposition via jail or worse and have hijacked the media to ensure the population don't get a true picture of them.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

isn't Le Pen always slightly behind Macron at this stage but then she loses?

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Today's polling suggests she is going to win the run off.

Le Pen is closing in as she's focusing on a Trump mantra domestic policies , where Macron is keen on being the new big boy voice of Europe and world stage politician with Merkel gone ,could be dangerous as the cost of living bites into their economy, her anti Muslim stance is also coming to the debate .

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Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland

I think you're right. They have a system that narrows it down to the last 2, when most right-minded voters vote for whoever's left who isn't Le Pen.

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If any candidate would get the majority of the votes during the first round, there wouldn't be a second round. Polls predicting Macron would beat Le Pen in the second round but it's getting closer and closer to the error margins.

The left-wing are smashing it across Latam, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, Peru, and Honduras. CIA probably ran out of money. I suspect Lula will win in Brazil now he's back as well. Also depends where you plant your flag on left-wing but Europe seems to be very central left currently.

Few thoughts;

1 / Its wrong to use 'the right' and 'far right' interchangably. Two very different things
2 / Its also unclear what actually defines many of these politicians as 'far right'. Economically at least Le Pen has more in common with the left than Macron. Anti-globalist may be a better definition for some of them at least.
3 / Linked to the above, one of the most interesting elements of the forthcoming French presidential election is where the 'far' left (see above - the same point applies) vote goes. Based on the latest polls, Macron and Le Pen should get similar votes in round one. Typically Macron (or any predecessor) then sweeps up the vast majority of remaining votes. However, Macron seems to be struggling on that. I think Le Pen will get nearly all of Zemmours votes (perhaps 10%), and I think most of Melanchons (perhaps 18-20%). Where the left votes after this will determine the result of the election.
4 / Irrespective, Macron will almost certainly win - I would suggest 55-45
5 / All of these things go in cycles...parts of the world swing left, other parts swing right, then they both reverse. Its the normal state of things.
6 / Someone mentioned mainstream European politics at the moment. The EU is run by centre-right conservatives and has been the largest party for several years now. That great swathes of the British left aligned themselves to the EU so strongly, in spite of its own working class strongly voting against it is one of the most baffling phenomena s in contemporary politics.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Few thoughts;

1 / Its wrong to use 'the right' and 'far right' interchangably. Two very different things
2 / Its also unclear what actually defines many of these politicians as 'far right'. Economically at least Le Pen has more in common with the left than Macron. Anti-globalist may be a better definition for some of them at least.
3 / Linked to the above, one of the most interesting elements of the forthcoming French presidential election is where the 'far' left (see above - the same point applies) vote goes. Based on the latest polls, Macron and Le Pen should get similar votes in round one. Typically Macron (or any predecessor) then sweeps up the vast majority of remaining votes. However, Macron seems to be struggling on that. I think Le Pen will get nearly all of Zemmours votes (perhaps 10%), and I think most of Melanchons (perhaps 18-20%). Where the left votes after this will determine the result of the election.
4 / Irrespective, Macron will almost certainly win - I would suggest 55-45
5 / All of these things go in cycles...parts of the world swing left, other parts swing right, then they both reverse. Its the normal state of things.
6 / Someone mentioned mainstream European politics at the moment. The EU is run by centre-right conservatives and has been the largest party for several years now. That great swathes of the British left aligned themselves to the EU so strongly, in spite of its own working class strongly voting against it is one of the most baffling phenomena s in contemporary politics.

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a very rational, sensible reply..

..are you new here? 😅

It's the rise of the wrong that you should be worried about!

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Few thoughts;

1 / Its wrong to use 'the right' and 'far right' interchangably. Two very different things
2 / Its also unclear what actually defines many of these politicians as 'far right'. Economically at least Le Pen has more in common with the left than Macron. Anti-globalist may be a better definition for some of them at least.
3 / Linked to the above, one of the most interesting elements of the forthcoming French presidential election is where the 'far' left (see above - the same point applies) vote goes. Based on the latest polls, Macron and Le Pen should get similar votes in round one. Typically Macron (or any predecessor) then sweeps up the vast majority of remaining votes. However, Macron seems to be struggling on that. I think Le Pen will get nearly all of Zemmours votes (perhaps 10%), and I think most of Melanchons (perhaps 18-20%). Where the left votes after this will determine the result of the election.
4 / Irrespective, Macron will almost certainly win - I would suggest 55-45
5 / All of these things go in cycles...parts of the world swing left, other parts swing right, then they both reverse. Its the normal state of things.
6 / Someone mentioned mainstream European politics at the moment. The EU is run by centre-right conservatives and has been the largest party for several years now. That great swathes of the British left aligned themselves to the EU so strongly, in spite of its own working class strongly voting against it is one of the most baffling phenomena s in contemporary politics.

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Decent post but I would turn your question around and ask why the working class are so anti the EU especially given the employment protections brought in to safeguard working practices.

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Originally Posted by Splott-light...

a very rational, sensible reply..

..are you new here? 😅

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No he's been on here for ages , just different name

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

No he's been on here for ages , just different name

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Thats one for the conspiracy theory thread :hehe:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Few thoughts;

1 / Its wrong to use 'the right' and 'far right' interchangably. Two very different things
2 / Its also unclear what actually defines many of these politicians as 'far right'. Economically at least Le Pen has more in common with the left than Macron. Anti-globalist may be a better definition for some of them at least.
3 / Linked to the above, one of the most interesting elements of the forthcoming French presidential election is where the 'far' left (see above - the same point applies) vote goes. Based on the latest polls, Macron and Le Pen should get similar votes in round one. Typically Macron (or any predecessor) then sweeps up the vast majority of remaining votes. However, Macron seems to be struggling on that. I think Le Pen will get nearly all of Zemmours votes (perhaps 10%), and I think most of Melanchons (perhaps 18-20%). Where the left votes after this will determine the result of the election.
4 / Irrespective, Macron will almost certainly win - I would suggest 55-45
5 / All of these things go in cycles...parts of the world swing left, other parts swing right, then they both reverse. Its the normal state of things.
6 / Someone mentioned mainstream European politics at the moment. The EU is run by centre-right conservatives and has been the largest party for several years now. That great swathes of the British left aligned themselves to the EU so strongly, in spite of its own working class strongly voting against it is one of the most baffling phenomena s in contemporary politics.

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You honestly have to ask what it is that gets Le Pen defined as Far -Right?

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Today's polling suggests she is going to win the run off.

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I would seriously doubt she will be in power

Same happened with UKIP

Large %wanted to vote for them but couldn't do it when it came to the crunch

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Few thoughts;

1 / Its wrong to use 'the right' and 'far right' interchangably. Two very different things
2 / Its also unclear what actually defines many of these politicians as 'far right'. Economically at least Le Pen has more in common with the left than Macron. Anti-globalist may be a better definition for some of them at least.
3 / Linked to the above, one of the most interesting elements of the forthcoming French presidential election is where the 'far' left (see above - the same point applies) vote goes. Based on the latest polls, Macron and Le Pen should get similar votes in round one. Typically Macron (or any predecessor) then sweeps up the vast majority of remaining votes. However, Macron seems to be struggling on that. I think Le Pen will get nearly all of Zemmours votes (perhaps 10%), and I think most of Melanchons (perhaps 18-20%). Where the left votes after this will determine the result of the election.
4 / Irrespective, Macron will almost certainly win - I would suggest 55-45
5 / All of these things go in cycles...parts of the world swing left, other parts swing right, then they both reverse. Its the normal state of things.
6 / Someone mentioned mainstream European politics at the moment. The EU is run by centre-right conservatives and has been the largest party for several years now. That great swathes of the British left aligned themselves to the EU so strongly, in spite of its own working class strongly voting against it is one of the most baffling phenomena s in contemporary politics.

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You've gone and done it now

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Decent post but I would turn your question around and ask why the working class are so anti the EU especially given the employment protections brought in to safeguard working practices.

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The 'working class' are predominately conservative, and have always been. Doesn't mean they vote Conservative, but they're mostly right of centre when it comes to the big issues.

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Originally Posted by OurManFlint II

You honestly have to ask what it is that gets Le Pen defined as Far -Right?

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I would be content labelling Le Pen as far-right. It's more the catch-all phrase, using right and far-right interchangably etc. It's just a label though. It is a matter of fact that many of the economic policies Le Pen espouses are the same that left wing parties would advocate. Like I said, I would say anti-globalist is probably a better term.

She wont win anyway, as people will be spooked. I saw a poll today though that put it at 49/51% which is remarkable really.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I would be content labelling Le Pen as far-right. It's more the catch-all phrase, using right and far-right interchangably etc. It's just a label though. It is a matter of fact that many of the economic policies Le Pen espouses are the same that left wing parties would advocate. Like I said, I would say anti-globalist is probably a better term.

She wont win anyway, as people will be spooked. I saw a poll today though that put it at 49/51% which is remarkable really.

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And globalist Macron is a WEF young global leader, and that is how she is distinguishing herself by being an anti-globalist candidate, which probably accounts for her polling data.

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Decent post but I would turn your question around and ask why the working class are so anti the EU especially given the employment protections brought in to safeguard working practices.

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They are led to believe that mass immigration is a reason for poor quality of pay and work, rather than rampant capitalism stagnating it in the pursuit of profits above workers.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

That great swathes of the British left aligned themselves to the EU so strongly, in spite of its own working class strongly voting against it is one of the most baffling phenomena s in contemporary politics.

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"Left"? You think the Liberal Democrats are leftwing?

The "left" were pro-EU because they correctly assessed the UK would do better in than out. There's nothing odd about "right" and "left" thinkers espousing the same/similar policies/positions. Sometimes there is only one correct choice - being pro-EU was one.

There is no real 'rise of the right' that I can see. Not in the sense of fascist far-right dictatorships, anyway. Europe is generally speaking democratic, and the parties in charge swing slowly from slightly left of centre, to slightly right of centre, then back again, depending on the mood of the time. People say the Tories are right-wing, but they are no more right-wing then Labour are left-wing. Just two different shades of the same stuff - you can hardly slip a fag-paper between them.

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Originally Posted by tforturton

There is no real 'rise of the right' that I can see. Not in the sense of fascist far-right dictatorships, anyway. Europe is generally speaking democratic, and the parties in charge swing slowly from slightly left of centre, to slightly right of centre, then back again, depending on the mood of the time. People say the Tories are right-wing, but they are no more right-wing then Labour are left-wing. Just two different shades of the same stuff - you can hardly slip a fag-paper between them.

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The far right have been on the march for many years in Europe . They are complete feckwits .

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Originally Posted by tforturton

There is no real 'rise of the right' that I can see. Not in the sense of fascist far-right dictatorships, anyway. Europe is generally speaking democratic, and the parties in charge swing slowly from slightly left of centre, to slightly right of centre, then back again, depending on the mood of the time. People say the Tories are right-wing, but they are no more right-wing then Labour are left-wing. Just two different shades of the same stuff - you can hardly slip a fag-paper between them.

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You don't think we have a right wing government ?

It's more right wing now than it was under Thatcher

Boris Johnson is judged as a libertarian but that doesn't mean he's a Liberal.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You don't think we have a right wing government ?

It's more right wing now than it was under Thatcher

Boris Johnson is judged as a libertarian but that doesn't mean he's a Liberal.

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This.

Virtually every world government is now right wing, despite their name or false projections.

For example, Biden is, in name, a Democrat, a left winger. In reality, he is a puppet of the extreme right capitalist globalists. If you think Trump or Biden or Obama or Clinton or Bush were for the masses, then you are deluded.

The same in Britain. All these corrupt, lying, bribe-taking politicians will do what is best for themselves. ie, if they get a “donation” which means they must vote against the working class/the masses, then they will do as they are told.