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Diversity - Is it going too far?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67195794
Arsenal, if these are the best they can get why the problem. Surely Squads should be the best a Club can get. Why include anyone who isn’t good enough?
If you’re good enough…..
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
Cleve van Leef
Depends how and where they are recruiting.
A team photo of 27 players at a major club in north London without a single non-white face has to raise questions.
There may be reasonable answers, but somehow I doubt it!
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
If there's a bias (either concious or unconscious) in the recruitment process then it does matter.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
For a sports team, pick the best players. As long as there's no bias in the recruitment I don't get the problem.
Of course in other organisations diversity can be enormously valuable and important to have.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Depends how and where they are recruiting.
A team photo of 27 players at a major club in north London without a single non-white face has to raise questions.
There may be reasonable answers, but somehow I doubt it!
I would be very surprised if Arsenal ladies recruited from the local community , white , black or whatever minority
They probably get the best players from all over the country
I would imagine these players are more likely to be from Hampshire than Harlesden
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Stories like this are the usual divisive sectarian nonsense that are slowly tearing us apart.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Stories like this are the usual divisive sectarian nonsense that are slowly tearing us apart.
And most of them come from the political right.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
And most of them come from the political right.
Doesn't actually, but thats not the point.
It's still emphasising that what divides us is the most important thing.
BBC cheering it on of course, always amplifying any story like this which probably came from about two people's twitter accounts
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Doesn't actually, but thats not the point.
It's still emphasising that what divides us is the most important thing.
BBC cheering it on of course, always amplifying any story like this which probably came from about two people's twitter accounts
Come on, this happens with all news organisations. It's not a BBC thing.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Come on, this happens with all news organisations. It's not a BBC thing.
I agree, many do. But I think the BBC is one of the worst culprits and they have a broader responsibility. They routinely promote these stories at the expense of other things and as I say, I think it's driving wedges between people and creating an image of a society in constant racial conflict, which I don't think is true. I think it's making society more divided
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I agree, many do. But I think the BBC is one of the worst culprits and they have a broader responsibility. They routinely promote these stories at the expense of other things and as I say, I think it's driving wedges between people and creating an image of a society in constant racial conflict, which I don't think is true. I think it's making society more divided
How do you know the BBC routinely promotes these stories at the expense of other things ?
Where have you got this from ?
You are having one of your nights here
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
How do you know the BBC routinely promotes these stories at the expense of other things ?
Where have you got this from ?
You are having one of your nights here
Because the BBC often report on these stories, frequently based on a tiny reaction on twitter. And they only have so many stories on the website / TV news and thus other stories by default slip down the agenda.
Sometimes the demand for racism seems to outstrip supply and this strikes me as one of those occasions.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I agree, many do. But I think the BBC is one of the worst culprits and they have a broader responsibility. They routinely promote these stories at the expense of other things and as I say, I think it's driving wedges between people and creating an image of a society in constant racial conflict, which I don't think is true. I think it's making society more divided
There's around 70,000 black, mixed, Asian people living in the borough of Islington, in a total population of around 215,000.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Because the BBC often report on these stories, frequently based on a tiny reaction on twitter. And they only have so many stories on the website / TV news and thus other stories by default slip down the agenda.
Sometimes the demand for racism seems to outstrip supply and this strikes me as one of those occasions.
So no idea at all then
Get back in your box
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
How is it going too far? It's actually pretty strange seeing an entirely white team and staff. It's like something from another era.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
So no idea at all then
Get back in your box
What are you talking about? They is clearly an editorial decision to promote stories such as this, as they have done in this case and in many other examples, usually based on a small amount of twitter outrage from a tiny minority.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
What are you talking about? They is clearly an editorial decision to promote stories such as this, as they have done in this case and in many other examples, usually based on a small amount of twitter outrage from a tiny minority.
You have said the BBC is promoting these stories .....about ethnicity and diversity .....at the expense of others
And it's CLEARLY an editorial decision
You have produced no evidence whatsoever that this claim of yours is true
You are talking nonsense
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
What are you talking about? They is clearly an editorial decision to promote stories such as this, as they have done in this case and in many other examples, usually based on a small amount of twitter outrage from a tiny minority.
i would say that it's a good thing that people are wondering why there are no black faces in a team photo of a huge football club situated in arguably the most diverse City on Earth.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
You have said the BBC is promoting these stories .....about ethnicity and diversity .....at the expense of others
And it's CLEARLY an editorial decision
You have produced no evidence whatsoever that this claim of yours is true
You are talking nonsense
What do you think they get put on websites without editors say so?! It's not Facebook
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
Tuerto
There's around 70,000 black, mixed, Asian people living in the borough of Islington, in a total population of around 215,000.
Last summer you said that Cardiff had a insignificant in numbers Caribbean community . I posted something off you tube that would disagree with that
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
What do you think they get put on websites without editors say so?! It's not Facebook
Now listen to yourself ....
Where is your evidence that stories about diversity from the BBC are being given precedent over other stories ?
I am still waiting
Your opinion does not make something a fact
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
i would say that it's a good thing that people are wondering why there are no black faces in a team photo of a huge football club situated in arguably the most diverse City on Earth.
Because sometimes that will happen. Arsenal's men's team has a real lack of white English players. That will also happen. Cardiff City doesn't represent the city of Cardiff at all.
The Great Britain men's basketnball team has no white players.
You can't go around scrutinizing these things too much. Or you can, and you can dog whistle about racism but as I say, I think you'll be contributing towards driving society apart more and merely emphasising that race and skin colour is all that matters.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Last summer you said that Cardiff had a insignificant in numbers Caribbean community . I posted something off you tube that would disagree with that
Did you? Sorry, i don't recall. Probably around 4000 in a population of around 380,000. I would not have used the word 'Insignificant'
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Now listen to yourself ....
Where is your evidence that stories about diversity from the BBC are being given precedent over other stories ?
I am still waiting
Your opinion does not make something a fact
You don't think the BBC and others do that then? That they don't deliberately and artificially inflate stories of this kind?
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Did you? Sorry, i don't recall. Probably around 4000 in a population of around 380,000. I would not have used the word 'Insignificant'
It's considerably larger than that
Your use of the word insignificant was about the size of the community not its importance
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You don't think the BBC and others do that then? That they don't deliberately and artificially inflate stories of this kind?
That's not the question
The question is where is your evidence that stories about diversity are deliberately promoted over other stories ?
I have asked 4 times now
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Because sometimes that will happen. Arsenal's men's team has a real lack of white English players. That will also happen. Cardiff City doesn't represent the city of Cardiff at all.
The Great Britain men's basketnball team has no white players.
You can't go around scrutinizing these things too much. Or you can, and you can dog whistle about racism but as I say, I think you'll be contributing towards driving society apart more and merely emphasising that race and skin colour is all that matters.
None of that, just find it very very strange that there isn't one player of colour in that team photo. It's not a common sight these days.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
It's considerably larger than that
Your use of the word insignificant was about the size of the community not its importance
Is it? what is it then?
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Is it? what is it then?
Well I think those from the Butetown history centre would know more about it than you and I
The estimates are that Cardiffs black community is 16000 and 8000 of that is Caribbean descent
The video I posted the other day is really interesting , you may know some of the faces , I will try and dig it out again
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Well I think those from the Butetown history centre would know more about it than you and I
The estimates are that Cardiffs black community is 16000 and 8000 of that is Caribbean descent
The video I posted the other day is really interesting , you may know some of the faces , I will try and dig it out again
Fair enough, i'm not going to argue over it. In the latest census it says that those Cardiff's population consists of 3.8% Black population in an overall population of 362,000 people. That would include those who are African. Whoever is closest, i don't consider it a large number.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
That's not the question
The question is where is your evidence that stories about diversity are deliberately promoted over other stories ?
I have asked 4 times now
The evidence is there for all to see Sludge.
Even tonight, pop onto the BBC website and there's a story about The Rock and some random Waxwork and the story is about his skin colour.
Stories like this are very often amplified. Is this really a top story for the UKs main news website?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-67193578
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
The evidence is there for all to see Sludge.
Even tonight, pop onto the BBC website and there's a story about The Rock and some random Waxwork and the story is about his skin colour.
Stories like this are very often amplified. Is this really a top story for the UKs main news website?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-67193578
Judging by its position on the BBC main news page currently, they hardly regard it as a “top story”.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news
There’s two ways of looking at this for me. First, using City as an example, I can remember noting that there often wasn’t a black player in the City team at the start of the 21/22 when Mick McCarthy was manager (Curtis Nelson was in the squad, but he didn’t always feature). Was there anything sinister in this? I don’t think so, within a year our squad had the biggest black representation I can ever remember. If now looks purely coincidental and anyone making an issue about our “all white” team at the time would have been barking up the wrong tree.
On the other hand, we’re talking about a squad photo of twenty odd players here and, when you think that you’d probably have to g o back to the early seventies to see a picture of an Arsenalmens squad without a black player in it, the photo of the current women’s squad does raise questions- as Arsenal have acknowledged themselves.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Because sometimes that will happen. Arsenal's men's team has a real lack of white English players. That will also happen. Cardiff City doesn't represent the city of Cardiff at all.
The Great Britain men's basketnball team has no white players.
You can't go around scrutinizing these things too much. Or you can, and you can dog whistle about racism but as I say, I think you'll be contributing towards driving society apart more and merely emphasising that race and skin colour is all that matters.
Arsenal's squad has three white English guys and four black English guys.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
Trigger
For a sports team, pick the best players. As long as there's no bias in the recruitment I don't get the problem.
Of course in other organisations diversity can be enormously valuable and important to have.
It does suggest that there's something wrong somewhere along the line; whether it's subconscious bias in recruitment, or opportunities to play and train are not the same for everyone, or something else.
It doesn't mean that people at the top are cruel racists and this was done deliberately, but there must be a kink in the system somewhere.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I would be very surprised if Arsenal ladies recruited from the local community , white , black or whatever minority
They probably get the best players from all over the country
I would imagine these players are more likely to be from Hampshire than Harlesden
I would think that is correct, football has previously been enjoyed by the type of ladies shown in the photo, it seems mostly white with blonde hair in a ponytail. I think that has probably already changed due to the women's World Cup, and little girls from all backgrounds will replace those ladies and over the next ten years, the photo would look completely different while still recruiting the best players for each position.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
More importantly, should they get paid as much as professional men's football?
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
More importantly, should they get paid as much as professional men's football?
For what, as a salary from the club? Is there anyone who thinks that?
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Looking at the club website, the squad consists of just 5 English players, 1 Scottish and the remainder from countries such as Austria, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Ireland and Australia. All fairly well established womens footballing nations. Maybe as the game develops further afield, there'll be more African nations producing more talented players.
It was only really after Italia 90 and the success of Cameroon, that clubs started tapping into other African nations as a source for quality (and cheaper) players.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
I would think that is correct, football has previously been enjoyed by the type of ladies shown in the photo, it seems mostly white with blonde hair in a ponytail. I think that has probably already changed due to the women's World Cup, and little girls from all backgrounds will replace those ladies and over the next ten years, the photo would look completely different while still recruiting the best players for each position.
Except Alex Scott and Rachel Yankey, to name two who sprang into my mind straight away, were playing for Arsenal every week a decade ago.
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Re: Diversity - Is it going too far?
Something to consider is that Girls organized football is pretty new. It could be that in the initial stages of the game in the UK that the girls who started out getting involved in the game were, are predominantly white lower middle class bracket with parents who have a little bit more money, time, social mobility etc. The men's game was predominantly white until the late eighties, so look how long men's football took to evolve.
When something new kicks in like female football at an organized level, then it's always almost going to be kids from more affluent backgrounds who carry on in the game as they generally have a better support network.