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Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53032895
Pleased by this decision, John Cleese's comments yesterday are right as far as I'm concerned - the original decision lumped Fawlty Towers, and programmes like Till death us do Part, in with Love thy Neighbour and they were completely different things.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Have the Wayans brothers apologised yet for dressing as white people?
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53032895
Pleased by this decision, John Cleese's comments yesterday are right as far as I'm concerned - the original decision lumped Fawlty Towers, and programmes like Till death us do Part, in with Love thy Neighbour and they were completely different things.
Absolutely. No comparison whatsoever.
Alf Garnet and Eddie Booth were bigoted opinionated racists. Basil Fawltey was a "normal" bloke who wanted an easy life but was whipped kept getting himself into farcical situations.
The only bit of possible racism I can remember was the aforementioned Germans sketch where he had had the blow on the head from that naughty moose!
Unlike Love thy neighbour and TDUDP, FT is a show that stands the test of time but mainly was just funny.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53032895
Pleased by this decision, John Cleese's comments yesterday are right as far as I'm concerned - the original decision lumped Fawlty Towers, and programmes like Till death us do Part, in with Love thy Neighbour and they were completely different things.
Sensible outcome - although I thought this was always what UKTV suspended the episode to consider: either editing out the Major's racist lines (as Cleese himself agreed in 2013 for the BBC repeats) or adding a 'warning' message at the start as is used for so many other (often older comedy) programmes. In the end we get the unedited episode available through that source, but a recognition that public attitudes have evolved and the broadcasters recognise that.
Those sort of messages have to be selective though, or they become intrusive or meaningless. Some channels seem to start every programme with a warning about sex scenes, upsetting scenes, offensive language or something else (though rarely violence).
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Absolutely. No comparison whatsoever.
Alf Garnet and Eddie Booth were bigoted opinionated racists. Basil Fawltey was a "normal" bloke who wanted an easy life but was whipped kept getting himself into farcical situations.
The only bit of possible racism I can remember was the aforementioned Germans sketch where he had had the blow on the head from that naughty moose!
Unlike Love thy neighbour and TDUDP, FT is a show that stands the test of time but mainly was just funny.
I wouldn't put Till Death Do Us Part and Love Thy Neighbour in the same bracket. The first was satire (although of its time and wouldn't be made today), the second was shallow, 'cheap laughs' comedy based on racial stereotypes.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
In my opinion, this is the right decision but they could easily bleep out the offending word from the Major or even cut out the scene altogether. Imagine being a young black child and settling down for what's advertised as a classic British show and viewing that scene. It's ugly, dated language and completely unnecessary.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I wouldn't put Till Death Do Us Part and Love Thy Neighbour in the same bracket. The first was satire (although of its time and wouldn't be made today), the second was shallow, 'cheap laughs' comedy based on racial stereotypes.
I agree with you - my intention was to pair Fawlty Towers and TDUDP against Love the Neighbour.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
The only bit of possible racism I can remember was the aforementioned Germans sketch where he had had the blow on the head from that naughty moose!
Apart from the scene where the N word is used about 8 times uncensored :sherlock:
But to be fair you probably haven't seen that (me neither) because the BBC have been taking the sensible decision to air an edited version of that episode since 2003, thinking that that kind of language isn't appropriate at 1930 on BBC2 on a Sunday, even if it is "of its time".
UKTV were still airing the original version, and that's what was taken down yesterday pending review. As that link says, they've now reinstated it with warning about the language.
A classic gammon frothing at the mouth over nothing situation, I lost count a long time ago what number this is
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I wouldn't put Till Death Do Us Part and Love Thy Neighbour in the same bracket. The first was satire (although of its time and wouldn't be made today), the second was shallow, 'cheap laughs' comedy based on racial stereotypes.
And with Love Thy Neighbour as my memory serves me (which isn't very well) he usually ended up losing anyway.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
And with Love Thy Neighbour as my memory serves me (which isn't very well) he usually ended up losing anyway.
Yes he did, live thy neighbour gets a raw deal imo the words that are used are offensive in this modern time but by no means was it a racist show it was actually cleverly written
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
what about Gavin and Stacey..he was called Chinese Alan because he liked Chinese food..ffs!
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kendoddsdadsdogsdead
what about Gavin and Stacey..he was called Chinese Alan because he liked Chinese food..ffs!
Tabloid shitstirring, no one wants Gavin and Stacey banned, and it hasn't been
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Tabloid shitstirring, no one wants Gavin and Stacey banned, and it hasn't been
I’d stick it in Room 101 along with Mrs Brown’s Boys though:thumbup:
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Have I Got News For You @haveigotnews - 12 Jun
Fawlty Towers faces criticism for ‘outdated material’, due to its depiction of a thriving hospitality industry.
:hehe:
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
I’d stick it in Room 101 along with Mrs Brown’s Boys though:thumbup:
I like G&S! Mrs Brown's Boys is shit though
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
We had to take down a Welsh advert for the 6 nations a few years back because the English complained and it was a cracker, you had groups of Welsh in Welsh shirts shouting England, groups of Irish in shirts shouting England, same with the Scots and I think they had the odd Frenchman and Italian as well, then came the punchline which was sport is not just about who you want to win but who you want to lose, lol, luvely butt.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
And with Love Thy Neighbour as my memory serves me (which isn't very well) he usually ended up losing anyway.
Yes he did, as did Alf Garnet and that's always been the cop out.
Both, however, however had a license to say and do what they liked which could bot have been an easy watch for many.
Both a totally different type of comedy to FT.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
I like G&S! Mrs Brown's Boys is shit though
That useless Stacey, the only Barry girl with an hiya butt accent, oh, the old lady next door doesn’t work hard on the accent either, lazy acting. It’s as though casting just went for the stereotypical Welsh accent, proper actors adapt.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I wouldn't put Till Death Do Us Part and Love Thy Neighbour in the same bracket. The first was satire (although of its time and wouldn't be made today), the second was shallow, 'cheap laughs' comedy based on racial stereotypes.
Perhaps but the lead characters were very similar.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Apart from the scene where the N word is used about 8 times uncensored :sherlock:
But to be fair you probably haven't seen that (me neither) because the BBC have been taking the sensible decision to air an edited version of that episode since 2003, thinking that that kind of language isn't appropriate at 1930 on BBC2 on a Sunday, even if it is "of its time".
UKTV were still airing the original version, and that's what was taken down yesterday pending review. As that link says, they've now reinstated it with warning about the language.
A classic gammon frothing at the mouth over nothing situation, I lost count a long time ago what number this is
You are joking right?
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Alf Garnett was a racist east ender played by Warren Mitchell, a jewish londoner
It was deliberately written to portray alf Garnett as a racist
Warren Mitchell was on a train in london once and this white bloke said to him I love the way you take the piss out of blacks and asians on that show
Mitchell said I am an immigrant and the people I am taking the piss out of is racists like you
There is a thin line between clever and stupid
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
You are joking right?
Maybe he was an ahead of his time rapper?
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Alf Garnett was a sharp and witty satire that had a go at everyone and he always came out worse off.
Love they Neighbour was your average sitcom with hardly any comedy value at all.
As a kid i hated the black and white minstral show ...."why were these men trying to look black but sing like a church choir" i thought.
what were they thinking with that show.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Yes he did, as did Alf Garnet and that's always been the cop out.
Both, however, however had a license to say and do what they liked which could bot have been an easy watch for many.
Both a totally different type of comedy to FT.
Hardly a cop out, the racism of Alf Garnett was being mocked.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I wouldn't put Till Death Do Us Part and Love Thy Neighbour in the same bracket. The first was satire (although of its time and wouldn't be made today), the second was shallow, 'cheap laughs' comedy based on racial stereotypes.
I agree. Warren Mitchell told a very good story about some racist bloke going up and saying to him "You tell it like it is, love your show Alf". Mitchell replied with "My show is making fun of people like you."
Love Thy Neighbour is horrendous, in hindsight, and was definitely "of its time". It has been repeated in my lifetime, but it was dreadful and, as you say, cheap.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Sensible outcome - although I thought this was always what UKTV suspended the episode to consider: either editing out the Major's racist lines (as Cleese himself agreed in 2013 for the BBC repeats) or adding a 'warning' message at the start as is used for so many other (often older comedy) programmes. In the end we get the unedited episode available through that source, but a recognition that public attitudes have evolved and the broadcasters recognise that.
Those sort of messages have to be selective though, or they become intrusive or meaningless. Some channels seem to start every programme with a warning about sex scenes, upsetting scenes, offensive language or something else (though rarely violence).
I always check for a sex scene warning before a programme. If there isn't one, I don't bother watching it.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
Hardly a cop out, the racism of Alf Garnett was being mocked.
I am not doubting the fact he was mocked.
You can't deny that he was allowed to say some very offensive things to a massive audience, many who took his side.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
I personally wasn't offended by Garnett and thought the show was well written and I felt guilty about laughing at it and enjoying it but I have to say I used to cringe at the things he used to say which must have been very offensive to a lot of people.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Alf Garnett was a racist east ender played by Warren Mitchell, a jewish londoner
It was deliberately written to portray alf Garnett as a racist
Agree.
The same could be said about Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth except it was set up north.
There are stark similarities in both programmes.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
I personally wasn't offended by Garnett and thought the show was well written and I felt guilty about laughing at it and enjoying it but I have to say I used to cringe at the things he used to say which must have been very offensive to a lot of people.
Exactly :thumbup:
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
I am not doubting the fact he was mocked.
You can't deny that he was allowed to say some very offensive things to a massive audience, many who took his side.
I doubt anybody was influenced to be racist because a TV character was racist. Given he always came out on the losing side being outsmarted by a "savage", it's imo silly. If he was presented as a likeable chap, giving the impression that his views were acceptable then I'd agree... but that's the complete opposite.
If the view is that those words should be banned in all circumstances, then it raises a large number of issues.
1) Documentaries of far right groups, exposing their racism would be banned.
2) Other offensive language would also have to be banned; documentaries showing the extent of and build up to Holocaust would also be banned.
3) Fictional TV gets affected - police drama showing racist being arrested, tried, jailed - banned due to the language.
I'm not defending the language, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying it's far more nuanced than offensive / non-offensive and removing context is fairly draconian
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
I doubt anybody was influenced to be racist because a TV character was racist. Given he always came out on the losing side being outsmarted by a "savage", it's imo silly. If he was presented as a likeable chap, giving the impression that his views were acceptable then I'd agree... but that's the complete opposite.
If the view is that those words should be banned in all circumstances, then it raises a large number of issues.
1) Documentaries of far right groups, exposing their racism would be banned.
2) Other offensive language would also have to be banned; documentaries showing the extent of and build up to Holocaust would also be banned.
3) Fictional TV gets affected - police drama showing racist being arrested, tried, jailed - banned due to the language.
I'm not defending the language, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying it's far more nuanced than offensive / non-offensive and removing context is fairly draconian
Personally I think it could have encouraged racism, people could be influenced to think that behaviour was ok.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I always check for a sex scene warning before a programme. If there isn't one, I don't bother watching it.
Channel 4's red triangles in the mid 80s were the best - always guaranteed an interesting late evening!!!
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
Personally I think it could have encouraged racism, people could be influenced to think that behaviour was ok.
Sorry, don't agree with you mate and I was around at the time. The main character was not someone you admired. Anyone with half a brain knew that Alf Garnett was a hopeless racist bigot who spouted bile intended to shock. Even his long suffering family struggled to put up with him. The intention was to highlight bigotry that was far more prevalent than it is now not give someone a platform on which to galvanise a very small section of society.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moodybluebird
Sorry, don't agree with you mate and I was around at the time. The main character was not someone you admired. Anyone with half a brain knew that Alf Garnett was a hopeless racist bigot who spouted bile intended to shock. Even his long suffering family struggled to put up with him. The intention was to highlight bigotry that was far more prevalent than it is now not give someone a platform on which to galvanise a very small section of society.
Indeed.
It wasn't as if he was a nice guy who happened to be racist, he was a shit to his family too... I don't understand anybody who claims that behavoiur, either to family or the racism was anywhere near close to ok or as presented as being so.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moodybluebird
Sorry, don't agree with you mate and I was around at the time. The main character was not someone you admired. Anyone with half a brain knew that Alf Garnett was a hopeless racist bigot who spouted bile intended to shock. Even his long suffering family struggled to put up with him. The intention was to highlight bigotry that was far more prevalent than it is now not give someone a platform on which to galvanise a very small section of society.
Anyone with half a brain is not everyone, we have already read a story about somebody congratulating the actor on taking the mickey out of non whites, his character often used the C word for Black people and I noticed that word became more in vogue than the N word for a time coinciding with his show, might have just been coincidence who knows.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
Indeed.
It wasn't as if he was a nice guy who happened to be racist, he was a shit to his family too... I don't understand anybody who claims that behavoiur, either to family or the racism was anywhere near close to ok or as presented as being so.
Thick people speak the same to wife, family, friends, teachers, police, judges, clergy etc etc, it's the more educated people have different vocabulary with different people.
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trampie09
Thick people speak the same to wife, family, friends, teachers, police, judges, clergy etc etc, it's the more educated people have different vocabulary with different people.
I sense the point has flown over your head.
Alf Garnett was shown to be shitty human being, little to no redeeming virtues. He was nowhere close to being a sympathetic character, he was there to be shown as a vile misogynistic racist... anybody championing his racism no doubt already shares those characteristics.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
You are joking right?
No, here's the original script, it was 3 not 8, but there's a "wogs" in there as a bonus:
Attachment 3896
The joke is that the Colonel is a relic of a different time but probably for the best it's been edited eh
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Re: Fawlty Towers episode reinstated by UKTV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
I sense the point has flown over your head.
Alf Garnett was shown to be shitty human being, little to no redeeming virtues. He was nowhere close to being a sympathetic character, he was there to be shown as a vile misogynistic racist... anybody championing his racism no doubt already shares those characteristics.
Context isn't everything, but it is important.
When Till Death Do Us Part was on TV originally it was surrounded by casual racist depictions and normalised bigotry passing as humour. Bernard Manning was on prime time, the Black And White Minstrels had a mid evening slot, a lot of TV drama had black and asian characters as caricatures (often criminal or defined by curry), and Enoch Powell (and sadly, the London dockers) has just done their bit for race relations. Alf Garnett in that context was cutting edge anti-racist satire. He even did a very good job of making a hero out of the 'Scouse git'.