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52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Gosh that is very low , I need a pint
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Gosh that is very low , I need a pint
With warped celebratory sentiments like that it sounds like you've already had one.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Gosh that is very low , I need a pint
On a day when a poll puts Boris Johnson on a positive personal rating for the first time since May, you show exactly the sort of thinking which leads to a situation like that - fifty two families and hundreds, if not thousands, of friends are in mourning today, but you go ahead and have your pint to celebrate.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
On a day when a poll puts Boris Johnson on a positive personal rating for the first time since May, you show exactly the sort of thinking which leads to a situation like that - fifty two families and hundreds, if not thousands, of friends are in mourning today, but you go ahead and have your pint to celebrate.
Isn't it incredible that after all the bungs to mates, lies, corruption, law breaks and deaths the Tories gain further in popularity.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Welshcake.
Isn't it incredible that after all the bungs to mates, lies, corruption, law breaks and deaths the Tories gain further in popularity.
Truly incredible.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Welshcake.
Isn't it incredible that after all the bungs to mates, lies, corruption, law breaks and deaths the Tories gain further in popularity.
the opposition aren't going on the offensive at all at the moment.
I can only hope that it is on purpose, and they are keeping their powder dry until after the pandemic to try to land some hits, rather than what I fear in that they are just ineffectual
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
the opposition aren't going on the offensive at all at the moment.
I can only hope that it is on purpose, and they are keeping their powder dry until after the pandemic to try to land some hits, rather than what I fear in that they are just ineffectual
I'm not so sure about that, I see Starmer asking questions Boris cant/wont answer and generally making him look like a fool every week at PMQ's. The media are down playing Labour's response, what more can they do as the opposition?
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
With warped celebratory sentiments like that it sounds like you've already had one.
Oh yes or two lol
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
On a day when a poll puts Boris Johnson on a positive personal rating for the first time since May, you show exactly the sort of thinking which leads to a situation like that - fifty two families and hundreds, if not thousands, of friends are in mourning today, but you go ahead and have your pint to celebrate.
The deaths were in there thousands , feel its improving , its not a celebration its a recognition of improvement , people though history have raised a glass at funerals or awful events in memory or a passing , without being criticised .
And yes I will rise a glass to everyone when its over as will millions of others its a natural human trait .
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
The deaths were in there thousands , feel its improving , its not a celebration its a recognition of improvement , people though history have raised a glass at funerals or awful events in memory or a passing , without being criticised .
And yes I will rise a glass to everyone when its over as will millions of others its a natural human trait .
I didn't see anything wrong with your OP. There is positivity in infections and deaths decreasing.
It's likely that England win the Euros this/last year (6/7 games at home, better talent than before with players who actually like each other - only a dodgy manager and being overplayed this year can stop them) so what's already being described as "a summer of fun" will only become even more extreme. It would be wrong for people in the UK to think covid is over (many poorer countries will need us to step up our efforts to support them, outcome and implications of behaviour during covid shouldn't be forgotten, could see a much worse flu season or new variant which knocks us back a few steps) despite what will be high levels of relief and some happiness.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Truly incredible.
Does it....
a) show how stupid us Brits all are or
b) show us there is no real opposition or
c) no one gives one as nothing really ever changes anyway, robbing peter to pay paul as the old saying goes.....
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
I didn't see anything wrong with your OP. There is positivity in infections and deaths decreasing.
It's likely that England win the Euros this/last year (6/7 games at home, better talent than before with players who actually like each other - only a dodgy manager and being overplayed this year can stop them) so what's already being described as "a summer of fun" will only become even more extreme. It would be wrong for people in the UK to think covid is over (many poorer countries will need us to step up our efforts to support them, outcome and implications of behaviour during covid shouldn't be forgotten, could see a much worse flu season or new variant which knocks us back a few steps) despite what will be high levels of relief and some happiness.
Thanks , sometimes its good to be positive . I know a few lads who have lost folk to Covid , they too are pushing this positive news which is a wonderful thing to hear , they too are wishing for a pint to toast there memory
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Does it....
a) show how stupid us Brits all are or
b) show us there is no real opposition or
c) no one gives one as nothing really ever changes anyway, robbing peter to pay paul as the old saying goes.....
Category A, I make no comment on, category B is always trotted out and makes no sense - there's always an opposition. and so many of those who fall into category C always vote always seem to vote for the same party.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
The deaths were in there thousands , feel its improving , its not a celebration its a recognition of improvement , people though history have raised a glass at funerals or awful events in memory or a passing , without being criticised .
And yes I will rise a glass to everyone when its over as will millions of others its a natural human trait .
Ourf figures still don't look great compared to many other countries and it's a measure of how badly we've done that fifty two deaths is seen as a reason for celebration.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Also, I'll raise a glass to everyone when it's over, but that's not what you said in your first post is it.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Ourf figures still don't look great compared to many other countries and it's a measure of how badly we've done that fifty two deaths is seen as a reason for celebration.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Also, I'll raise a glass to everyone when it's over, but that's not what you said in your first post is it.
Apologies I thought it was , I've posted again below for clarity ,sorry for using your term i'll raise glass
" Gosh that is very low , I need a pint"
This board can be prickly at times.
Sorry for my positiveness
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Apologies I thought it was , I've posted again below for clarity ,sorry for using your term i'll raise glass
" Gosh that is very low , I need a pint"
This board can be prickly at times.
Sorry for my positiveness
A couple of days ago you responded to the news that golf courses in Wales were opening in the following positive manner:
Got a fairways to go though as there is still the 5 mile rule so only for the rich ones who have a links at the bottom of the garden ,thanks Mark for looking after the normal people.
Little wonder people question the sincerity of your explanations when you seen unable to maintain a consistent thought pattern over a few days.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Ourf figures still don't look great compared to many other countries and it's a measure of how badly we've done that fifty two deaths is seen as a reason for celebration.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Also, I'll raise a glass to everyone when it's over, but that's not what you said in your first post is it.
I was reading an article recently of how comparing countries isn’t probably the best way to measure success.
I’d always be the first to criticise this government and there is no argument from me that we’ve handled this poorly.
But we do have an over weight population who are very susceptible to the virus. We also have a very old population thanks to the nhs and we are also a very densely populated country.
So whilst we have handled it poorly especially on the lead up to Christmas comparing our deaths to other countries maybe is the best metric to judge.
Also there I think there is a floor for number fo deaths from this especially due to the seasonal effect so I’m not sure how likely we ever are to see single figures again.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Category A, I make no comment on, category B is always trotted out and makes no sense - there's always an opposition. and so many of those who fall into category C always vote always seem to vote for the same party.
Category B makes plenty of sense.
There is absolutely no viable opposition to the Tories at the moment.
The UK is crying out for a new young dynamic figurehead to look to for salvation, but there is nobody even on the horizon.
At the moment, the Tories can run roughshod through any city they want in the UK with all guns blazing. and the poor townsfolk only have peashooters to repel them.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Gosh that is very low , I need a pint
its great news that its getting so low, of course any death is sad, but only a month or so ago it was more than 10 times that
shows how well the government has done since Christmas, must have been a hard call to shut everything down and keep on with furlough and all the help they are providing
time to open the country up
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
its great news that its getting so low, of course any death is sad, but only a month or so ago it was more than 10 times that
shows how well the government has done since Christmas, must have been a hard call to shut everything down and keep on with furlough and all the help they are providing
time to open the country up
Don’t think we can do it quickly until we know things won’t go back up and vaccines are working.
It’s why the 5 week intervals are important.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Don’t think we can do it quickly until we know things won’t go back up and vaccines are working.
It’s why the 5 week intervals are important.
Yea i agree with the 5 week gaps, but we do need to be opening it up, yes at the gov's timetable, but lets get it going
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
The Labour And Liberal parties are done , finished
The 60 percent of the population that didn't vote for the tory clowns need to accept this
The only way to snub their rifles , Eton ones of course , is to form a left of centre democratic party ......not a bad idea for a name ......and unite against them
It might not be the left wing Labour party I would be attracted to but its 2021 and there is no opposition to the tories and that opposition to the tories is split
Labour , Plaid , Liberals , Greens , independents , SNP .....I hate sturgeon and her crew , silly twats .....and plaid are living in the age of druids
Drop it all , fold the parties and get a united opposition
Or just be ruled by toffs
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
Yea i agree with the 5 week gaps, but we do need to be opening it up, yes at the gov's timetable, but lets get it going
Schools opening this week were it getting going
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Category B makes plenty of sense.
There is absolutely no viable opposition to the Tories at the moment.
The UK is crying out for a new young dynamic figurehead to look to for salvation, but there is nobody even on the horizon.
At the moment, the Tories can run roughshod through any city they want in the UK with all guns blazing. and the poor townsfolk only have peashooters to repel them.
Let's look at Category B then. There are plenty of left wing parties to vote for if you're so inclined, ones further to the right than the Conservatives, ones that offer radically different policies to the UK Government on the environment if that's your thing, ones that offer independence for Wales if you want it - you may not fall into that category, but an awful lot of people who bemoan the lack of opposition to a Government use that as a reason to vote for said Government, it makes no sense at all.
Also, according to you, "the Tories can run roughshod through any city they want in the UK". Well, is that really true in Wales? To hear some on here talk, Wales is run by the Labour Party and, given how they responded late last year when the WAG was, rightly in my view, being criticised for how they came out of the Firebreak lockdown they had imposed in October/November, they didn't think they were being ruled by the Conservative Party. Indeed the poster who brought up the subject of the three categories, is keen on calling the leader of the WAG, Kim Jung Drakeford which hardly suggests that he thinks of him as a powerless puppet of the UK Government.
The UK and Welsh Governments have both hit the vaccine targets they set for themselves (they'd hardly have set ones they were not confident of reaching) and are now following broadly similar policies when it comes to Covid - at the fourth time of asking, Johnson's Government have finally realised that they are in a situation where they cannot run before they can walk and are therefore being more cautious than they have been. Yet, there is a core of posters on here who still rush to the UK Government's defence, while also being quick to criticise the WAG when they can - in some cases, their attitude towards what can be called cock ups and failures differs depending on who is responsible for them, while others who acknowledge UK Government failures give the impression that they will make little difference to how they will vote at the next election.
Categories B and C are, in the majority of cases, just convenient excuses to justify the way someone votes.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I was reading an article recently of how comparing countries isn’t probably the best way to measure success.
I’d always be the first to criticise this government and there is no argument from me that we’ve handled this poorly.
But we do have an over weight population who are very susceptible to the virus. We also have a very old population thanks to the nhs and we are also a very densely populated country.
So whilst we have handled it poorly especially on the lead up to Christmas comparing our deaths to other countries maybe is the best metric to judge.
Also there I think there is a floor for number fo deaths from this especially due to the seasonal effect so I’m not sure how likely we ever are to see single figures again.
So, are you saying the UK's high death toll was inevitable? I happen to think that seeing fifty two deaths in a day as a reason for celebration is tantamount to an admission of failure.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
I didn't see anything wrong with your OP. There is positivity in infections and deaths decreasing.
It's likely that England win the Euros this/last year (6/7 games at home, better talent than before with players who actually like each other - only a dodgy manager and being overplayed this year can stop them) so what's already being described as "a summer of fun" will only become even more extreme. It would be wrong for people in the UK to think covid is over (many poorer countries will need us to step up our efforts to support them, outcome and implications of behaviour during covid shouldn't be forgotten, could see a much worse flu season or new variant which knocks us back a few steps) despite what will be high levels of relief and some happiness.
Looking forward to yet another golden generation of English players getting built up only to go out in the groups.
I will raise a pint to that.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
...... All this talk of Brits and THE Government is making me a little queasy.....sorry.
Has it been mentioned that under this government, OUR government , Wales is second in Europe in terms of second doses given per capita? ..... two or three times higher than the rate in most other European countries, including England.
I suppose that this will be a reason to celebrate for many elderly and vulnerable people, in Wales at least.
Johnson and the Tories will further divide the UK and eventually we will be able to take care of our own affairs and do so in a more efficient manner, whether it be a health crisis, a financial one.... whatever.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Labour , Plaid , Liberals , Greens , independents , SNP .....I hate sturgeon and her crew , silly twats .....and plaid are living in the age of druids
Can you elaborate....or are you just a unionist ? I don't mean to be rude, I just mean that maybe you don't see any politics whatsoever existing in any meaningful way beyond the politics that is centred in London.
Do you know any of Plaid's policies. Do you know who the leader of Plaid is even ? Maybe you are right about them living in the age of Druids, I'd just be interested to know why you think that.....like, with facts n shit.
What's wrong with the SNP. When they do go independent, I should imagine there is a good chance Scotland will be better off under the SNP as a country within the EU , once again.
It would be good to see small , efficient countries operating with freedom on an international stage.
Seriously, I think you have summed its up . There is very little hope for anything resembling a decent, healthy, political system within England, and seeing as we are dragged and jostled by the whims of the English, why would you even want to bother with them.Be done with them....unless you are a hopeless romantic, nostalgic for the days of the empire.....or a masochist.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
So, are you saying the UK's high death toll was inevitable? I happen to think that seeing fifty two deaths in a day as a reason for celebration is tantamount to an admission of failure.
I think inevitable is the wrong word but I do think there is a reason we have more deaths than say France and Spain who've been equally shit as us.
I do think a certain number of deaths were always inevitable and I think you can almost forgive the slow start for the first lockdown.
The failure to notice to same warnings after the summer is probably the biggest failure of this government. I don't think comparing number of deaths with different countries adds any weight to that.
But also look at deaths per million for each country, have we behaved much differently to any western country? I'd say no and I think we do have a slight excuse for having so many more deaths.
Surely you can see that 52 deaths is a reason for failure and celebration though? As disgusting as that sounds it shows we are moving in the right direction.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
*Excuse probably the wrong word, I'd say there are reasons we've had so many more deaths than France and Spain etc despite not doing much different to them in terms of lockdowns.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
On a day when a poll puts Boris Johnson on a positive personal rating for the first time since May, you show exactly the sort of thinking which leads to a situation like that - fifty two families and hundreds, if not thousands, of friends are in mourning today, but you go ahead and have your pint to celebrate.
What complete claptrap. We've had 1900 deaths a day. Yesterday was 52. The cause for celebration was the 98% reduction, not the 52 that died. You even manage to bring in your daily obsession with anti -government politics.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I think inevitable is the wrong word but I do think there is a reason we have more deaths than say France and Spain who've been equally shit as us.
I do think a certain number of deaths were always inevitable and I think you can almost forgive the slow start for the first lockdown.
The failure to notice to same warnings after the summer is probably the biggest failure of this government. I don't think comparing number of deaths with different countries adds any weight to that.
But also look at deaths per million for each country, have we behaved much differently to any western country? I'd say no and I think we do have a slight excuse for having so many more deaths.
Surely you can see that 52 deaths is a reason for failure and celebration though? As disgusting as that sounds it shows we are moving in the right direction.
Let’s not forget that there was something of a rehearsal for what might happen in a pandemic in 2017 I believe it was and it’s been reported that the conclusions were largely ignored because they were so concerning to be revealed to the public, Actually, I think the opposite to you, the UK Government got so many things wrong back in the spring, but would not blame them as much for what happened during the winter months when viruses like Covid are always going to prosper.
Fifty deaths a day equates to something like a thousand every three weeks - for me, if it is ever appropriate to “celebrate” COVID victims, it’s when the number is into single figures a day.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
What complete claptrap. We've had 1900 deaths a day. Yesterday was 52. The cause for celebration was the 98% reduction, not the 52 that died. You even manage to bring in your daily obsession with anti -government politics.
From memory, you’re a category C aren’t you - they’re all as bad as each other and it’s just a coincidence I always come down on the same side of the fence in my opinions.
There were no deaths in Northern Ireland on Sunday and none in Wales about ten days ago, they are occasions for celebration- 52 still seems way too high to start doing that for me.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Apologies I thought it was , I've posted again below for clarity ,sorry for using your term i'll raise glass
" Gosh that is very low , I need a pint"
This board can be prickly at times.
Sorry for my positiveness
I can’t keep up with all of the individual grudges on this board so I’m assuming you must’ve pissed Bob off at some point but I think I understood the intent of your OP.
We’ve been in Canada for 10 years but almost every other part of our family is still in the UK. Naturally (for us at least) we make comparisons between the 2 countries. For almost the entirety of the pandemic the UK has appeared like a horror show compared to Canada, but Croesy did a reasonable job of articulating some of the contributing factors to that.
Yesterday the 2 numbers (cases and deaths) were very similar, and the trajectory has been that way for about 2-3 weeks now. Within the last year that had appeared highly unlikely to be the case, so while of course any death is tragic (it would be obtuse to suggest anything else) what appears to be true today is that the UK can, despite its pain of the last 12 months, see the end in sight... as can Canada, but just nowhere near as quickly and we have half the population.
I lost my Dad in the last 12 months, indirectly from covid, but my Mum, who is in Wales, still celebrates the fact that things are improving dramatically and if she drank pints I think she’d join you 👍
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Surely you can see that 52 deaths is a reason for failure and celebration though? As disgusting as that sounds it shows we are moving in the right direction.
Not often i agree with you, but we are moving in the right direction and rather quickly at that and it looks like some do not like that ( i speak to them daily, so it is not just here / online ) a section of our community have revelled in this chance to knock the government ( despite never having a answer to what another gov would have done differently ) and it has become their life in the past 12 months, now it looks like it is coming to a end, they are worried
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
What complete claptrap. We've had 1900 deaths a day. Yesterday was 52. The cause for celebration was the 98% reduction, not the 52 that died. You even manage to bring in your daily obsession with anti -government politics.
For a man who massively underplayed Covid at the start, railed against every restriction that has been imposed to stop its spread and has gone on record to say that lockdowns don't work you deserve some credit for the chutzpah in this argument.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Let’s not forget that there was something of a rehearsal for what might happen in a pandemic in 2017 I believe it was and it’s been reported that the conclusions were largely ignored because they were so concerning to be revealed to the public, Actually, I think the opposite to you, the UK Government got so many things wrong back in the spring, but would not blame them as much for what happened during the winter months when viruses like Covid are always going to prosper.
Fifty deaths a day equates to something like a thousand every three weeks - for me, if it is ever appropriate to “celebrate” COVID victims, it’s when the number is into single figures a day.
No one is celebrating the deaths though are they? They're celebrating the fact that despite the world still being in trouble we seem to be for once moving in the right direction and at pace.
There aren't many people who hate this government more than me and they've been ****ing useless at times throughout this and deserve to be held to account for some of the more scandelous things they've done.
But surely there has to be a point when we say other than a few outliers most countries have done terribley at this. And although a lot can be put at the feet of the government I think we need to consider that there are other things that have contributed to us having such a high number of deaths.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
Not often i agree with you, but we are moving in the right direction and rather quickly at that and it looks like some do not like that ( i speak to them daily, so it is not just here / online ) a section of our community have revelled in this chance to knock the government ( despite never having a answer to what another gov would have done differently ) and it has become their life in the past 12 months, now it looks like it is coming to a end, they are worried
I think the arguments about the all governments of the UK's mistakes are well aired and rehearsed. You must have some strange friends if they are worried that we are returning to some kind of normality. I have a mother in a care home I haven't seen for 6 months so we all have skin in the game of some sort.
My concern, the crass nature of the sentiments in the original post aside, is that our history of this is that we want to be on the next step before we have banked the benefits of the current one. On my recent trips out to shops and on walks there seems an almost imperceptible loosening of the social distancing contracts we have entered into with one another and larger social groups than permitted currently are more common sights.
The messaging needs to be reinforced that victory should not be declared until victory is assured. I know the mantra from scientists is that the lifting of restrictions is data not date driven but there is enough on here and elsewhere that suggest some politicians don't mean that and the sooner we take the steps the better regardless of the impact. Hopefully vaccines will mean that we don't end up repeating the mistakes of the past.
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
Not often i agree with you, but we are moving in the right direction and rather quickly at that and it looks like some do not like that ( i speak to them daily, so it is not just here / online ) a section of our community have revelled in this chance to knock the government ( despite never having a answer to what another gov would have done differently ) and it has become their life in the past 12 months, now it looks like it is coming to a end, they are worried
Who on earth are you speaking to that doesn't like that we are heading in the right direction?
Why does it matter what another government would have done differently? This government are a bunch of corrupt scumbags and should be held account, what does it matter if someone else would have hypothetically done it?
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Re: 52 deaths due to Coivid in UK Reported Yesterday
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
For a man who massively underplayed Covid at the start, railed against every restriction that has been imposed to stop its spread and has gone on record to say that lockdowns don't work you deserve some credit for the chutzpah in this argument.
I guess it must be a coincidence that deaths and cases fall when we enter a lockdown and rise when it's over.