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No U turn on essential goods ban
I think Drakeford has done some good (metro) and also some bad (M4 relief) but this one is the wrong decision for the right reasons.
I understand why it’s implemented. You know the sort, can’t cope with being bored, or inside with children so ‘pop to the shop for something to do’. But it’s just going to piss the people that aren’t going to listen anyway, and divide them further.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
I think Drakeford has done some good (metro) and also some bad (M4 relief) but this one is the wrong decision for the right reasons.
I understand why it’s implemented. You know the sort, can’t cope with being bored, or inside with children so ‘pop to the shop for something to do’. But it’s just going to piss the people that aren’t going to listen anyway, and divide them further.
Lets face it, he’s a nobody who is having his hour of fame in the spotlight and is milking it for all its worth to try to make a name for himself. This ban on ‘non essential goods’ makes no sense whatsoever, as does having a national lockdown whilst the rest of the UK doesn’t. When this is all over he will disappear again hopefully, although ‘doing a Drakeford’ could well become an accepted phrase in future years for describing someone who is unduly stubborn, pedantic and dithering (or possibly someone who wears clothes that are two sizes too big 😀😀).
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Lets face it, he’s a nobody who is having his hour of fame in the spotlight and is milking it for all its worth to try to make a name for himself. This ban on ‘non essential goods’ makes no sense whatsoever, as does having a national lockdown whilst the rest of the UK doesn’t. When this is all over he will disappear again hopefully, although ‘doing a Drakeford’ could well become an accepted phrase in future years for describing someone who is unduly stubborn, pedantic and dithering (or possibly someone who wears clothes that are two sizes too big 😀😀).
"...as does having a national lockdown whilst the rest of the UK doesn’t"
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/heal...rted-1.4380208
Except for Northern Ireland, you mean?
Be right for once, dml... Please!
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
This ban on ‘non essential goods’ makes no sense whatsoever, as does having a national lockdown whilst the rest of the UK doesn’t.
Stopping people from going to supermarkets unless it's to buy consumables, and also trying to be fair to businesses who sell books/tv's etc who've had to shut down. It's not difficult to get the logic. Also not difficult to know that Northern Ireland are going into a lockdown twice as long as ours.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
I think Drakeford has done some good (metro) and also some bad (M4 relief) but this one is the wrong decision for the right reasons.
I understand why it’s implemented. You know the sort, can’t cope with being bored, or inside with children so ‘pop to the shop for something to do’. But it’s just going to piss the people that aren’t going to listen anyway, and divide them further.
The problem is that clothes etc will be bought on line.
They usually arrive next say and once people get used to it they will keep doing it.
Could affect the shops more than if they bought a few clothes from the supermarkets
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Stopping people from going to supermarkets unless it's to buy consumables, and also trying to be fair to businesses who sell books/tv's etc who've had to shut down. It's not difficult to get the logic. Also not difficult to know that Northern Ireland are going into a lockdown twice as long as ours.
But as I said in my other post people may just buy on line and keep doing it.
Not difficult to get that logic either.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Lets face it, he’s a nobody who is having his hour of fame in the spotlight and is milking it for all its worth to try to make a name for himself. This ban on ‘non essential goods’ makes no sense whatsoever, as does having a national lockdown whilst the rest of the UK doesn’t. When this is all over he will disappear again hopefully, although ‘doing a Drakeford’ could well become an accepted phrase in future years for describing someone who is unduly stubborn, pedantic and dithering (or possibly someone who wears clothes that are two sizes too big ).
All my life, the Conservative party have portrayed themselves as the party of the small business man/woman, but the interesting thing here is that it seems to me that the WAG has made a decision with those very people in mind and the tories on here are slagging them off purely because that decision has been taken by the Welsh Labour party.
The line taken by many tory MPs against Andy Burnham was that he was playing party politics (I heard Matt Hancock say that five times in a two or three minute radio interview, thereby proving that, if he was doing such a thing, Mr Burnham was not the only one playing party politics), but what else is it but party politics from people like you when you come down against the small business man/woman because the "other lot" are doing something designed to stop them being discriminated against - by the way, how can someone be stubborn and dithering?:hehe: :facepalm:
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
The problem is that clothes etc will be bought on line.
They usually arrive next say and once people get used to it they will keep doing it.
Could affect the shops more than if they bought a few clothes from the supermarkets
To be fair, think those who are still buying a TV in a shop are unlikely to move to doing it online now if they haven't already made that move on the US version of Black Friday last year/the year before/the year before etc. If this making the public realise that shops need support then hopefully that feeling lasts 17 days and continues into next year because I've also seen comments from bookshop owners about people asking them to research what a book is before being told thanks but the potential customer will now find it online.
What is essential? What isn't? It's a minefield that could have been avoided without these depressing images, though with a 17 day fire-break as opposed to a 4 week one (NI) we do need tighter restrictions (self-imposed or otherwise) and people to play ball for it to work.
It's under review now so we'll hear next week what happens.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
But as I said in my other post people may just buy on line and keep doing it.
Not difficult to get that logic either.
Independent and high street shops and businesses will and have been harder hit by supermarkets than the online threat
If anything they should have the online facility themselves. Loads have anyway.
Im working from home and its noticeable the number of deliveries being made. Im regularly taking in deliveries for neighbours.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
But as I said in my other post people may just buy on line and keep doing it.
Not difficult to get that logic either.
True, but the main reason for it is the first part of my sentence though isn't it, stopping people from going to the supermarket unless they have to. Yes I know there's loopholes, people don't have to buy alcohol for example. None of this is easy and there is no logically flawless catch all
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
it makes perfect sense to me.
we've seen what happens when you don't have a clear message, people make their own interpretations and the whole thing collapses into a shambles.
we all know some people will be like - oh well if I can go to Sainsbury's to buy a new shirt then why can't I go to X etc
then pretty soon people are making non essential journeys all over the place and the whole idea of the fire break is ruined.
somewhat similar to the mixed messages we had from the Tories earlier in the year i.e. it was fine for Dominic Cummings to go to Barnard castle, which was followed by widespread breakdown of people sticking to the rules later
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Online buying is just a glorified Grattten’s/Freeman’s catalogue.
How many times have you bought something that has to be sent back, for one reason or another.
It’s not everyone’s cup of tea
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Online buying is just a glorified Grattten’s/Freeman’s catalogue.
How many times have you bought something that has to be sent back, for one reason or another.
It’s not everyone’s cup of tea
I would definitely not order a cup of tea online.
unless it came with a Panini in a pleasant outdoor eating environment
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
I would definitely not order a cup of tea online.
unless it came with a Panini in a pleasant outdoor eating environment
Come on now, I gave you a great chance and you never mentioned a KETTLE :hehe:
Panini’s are yesterday’s news
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Lets face it, he’s a nobody who is having his hour of fame in the spotlight and is milking it for all its worth to try to make a name for himself. This ban on ‘non essential goods’ makes no sense whatsoever, as does having a national lockdown whilst the rest of the UK doesn’t. When this is all over he will disappear again hopefully, although ‘doing a Drakeford’ could well become an accepted phrase in future years for describing someone who is unduly stubborn, pedantic and dithering (or possibly someone who wears clothes that are two sizes too big ).
So how would you protect the NHS from being overwhelmed by very ill people. I see lots of criticism but nothing constructive. Some topics, such as ensuring disadvantaged children have a daily meal during school holidays or that the sick can get the care they need, should transcend party politics and be the decent thing to do.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
It's all pointless, anyway. Once the two weeks are up, we'll all head out again, and the figures will start to rise. But wait - do I see a vaccine on the horizon? That's our only hope for a 'normal life' in the near future. But by then, any small business will have closed down...
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
[QUOTE=tforturton;5129531. But by then, any small business will have closed down...[/QUOTE]
Really?
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Really?
Not EVERYTHING, obviously, but there are a lot of small businesses that simply will not recover from this second hammer blow.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tforturton
It's all pointless, anyway. Once the two weeks are up, we'll all head out again, and the figures will start to rise. But wait - do I see a vaccine on the horizon? That's our only hope for a 'normal life' in the near future. But by then, any small business will have closed down...
Noises suggesting vaccine to be developed by end of the year and then a case of producing it on scale needed and at the same time, treatments to improve chances of surviving are being found/developed so death rates are likely to go down. I would be surprised if we're not feeling much more positive by March 2021.
The idea of the fire-break/circuit breaker is not necessarily to stop figures rising but to slow the rate that they do. At the moment R estimated to be 1.2-1.4 in Wales but this could, if it works, bring it back down below 1.
Will smaller businesses survive? Hope so, though Resolution Foundation has produced information to say that self-employed people have been hit hardest by pandemic and by being missed from financial support so it will be dicey for many: https://twitter.com/resfoundation/st...78336350883840
Government has to make a decision about minimum income floor part of Universal Credit in next couple of weeks at the moment. Currently, there is discretion to ignore it but this is running out so self-employed people might be treated as having 35xmimimum wage earnings whether there is income or not. At the same time, those on working tax credits have been supported up until this point by HMRC treating them as if they're doing full-time hours but this is also running out soon and waiting to be reviewed. Self-employed people on benefits may be about to be dropped in it again.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tforturton
Not EVERYTHING, obviously, but there are a lot of small businesses that simply will not recover from this second hammer blow.
But also a lot of people will be saved from death; I know which I would prefer
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
The problem is that clothes etc will be bought on line.
They usually arrive next say and once people get used to it they will keep doing it.
Could affect the shops more than if they bought a few clothes from the supermarkets
Nothings perfect Elwood. But it's fun to see the right wingers on here showing off their yoga skills by twisting themselves into any torturous position just to criticize the Welsh government.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
All my life, the Conservative party have portrayed themselves as the party of the small business man/woman, but the interesting thing here is that it seems to me that the WAG has made a decision with those very people in mind and the tories on here are slagging them off purely because that decision has been taken by the Welsh Labour party.
The line taken by many tory MPs against Andy Burnham was that he was playing party politics (I heard Matt Hancock say that five times in a two or three minute radio interview, thereby proving that, if he was doing such a thing, Mr Burnham was not the only one playing party politics), but what else is it but party politics from people like you when you come down against the small business man/woman because the "other lot" are doing something designed to stop them being discriminated against - by the way, how can someone be stubborn and dithering?:hehe: :facepalm:
Perhaps you should ask Mr Drakeford the last one - he has got it down to a tee.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
But also a lot of people will be saved from death; I know which I would prefer
Ok. Alive but no job, no money, no place to live, no friends etc. Not much of a difference really is it.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Ok. Alive but no job, no money, no place to live, no friends etc. Not much of a difference really is it.
Im more convinced than ever this is a wind up account.😂😂😂
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Perhaps you should ask Mr Drakeford the last one - he has got it down to a tee.
If his decisions mean fewer people are out and about because they can’t browse through the frocks, socks and phoney Welsh rugby stuff in Tesco and Asda it has to be a good thing in thinning out the volume of people in these shops. Ok, ‘non essential’ can be a blurred line, what’s essential to one person is ‘what the f*ck’ to someone else but some folk moan that Drakeford is inept yet when he does something what a lot think is a positive move they regard him as a tin pot dictator. I’d take him over Johnson any day of the week.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
If someone wantssomething that desperately they can drive to Cribbs Causway and buy it.
I know that shouldn't happen either but the police are check English plated cars coming into Wales not welsh ones or any going out, so if someone feels the need to spread the stuff they will find a way.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Ok. Alive but no job, no money, no place to live, no friends etc. Not much of a difference really is it.
Nothing is as bad as oblivion DML, even reading your posts
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
I reckon there will be a U turn as there is to be a review after the weekend.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tforturton
It's all pointless, anyway. Once the two weeks are up, we'll all head out again, and the figures will start to rise. But wait - do I see a vaccine on the horizon? That's our only hope for a 'normal life' in the near future. But by then, any small business will have closed down...
I read that there is not likely to be a ‘cure’ as such rather coronavirus will be endemic and we will have recurring waves each year pretty much like we do with the flu. The COVID 19 vaccines will give a similar level of protection as flu jabs. It will not cure it. It will not stop people catching it. The vaccines as they are currently being developed are focused on reducing the symptoms and the associated illnesses.
Over time for most people our bodies will build a level of resistance. When the virus mutates the vaccines will have to follow.
Politics, when we are talking about people’s lives and livelihoods, shouldn’t enter into it. Doing the right thing is not a political football but I’m afraid that it’s inevitable that businesses will suffer. Some will not recover. Shopping habits are likely to change. City centres may change their profile because the nature of the way in which people are likely to change their shopping habits.
Fewer shops will pay less business rates to local government requiring local authorities to raise the level of council tax being paid to support an ever reducing level of service.
The NHS needs a serious overhaul.... we’re all doomed
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
But also a lot of people will be saved from death; I know which I would prefer
First, I think Drakeford should stop micro-managing the people of Wales. Yes we have a lockdown but to dictate a list of what we can or cannot buy in a supermarket is ridiculous. He talks about being fair to businesses that have closed, but how about him being fair to us for a change. If he wants us to minimise our time outside our homes then a one stop shop is the answer for many. When we are in the store then it makes sense to try and buy all we need be it beer or a new kettle in one visit. He is fast becoming a tin pot dictator in many peoples' eyes.
Secondly, why are we having this lockdown? He says he follows the advice of his technical advisors who say that this lockdown may save as many as 750 lives by March 2021. But to do that did he have to lockdown the whole of Wales where some areas have the lowest incidence of Covid in the UK? And the cost in lost jobs and bust business....who knows?
Finally, what next? He promised he would tell us last Friday on his weekly TV show, but he hasn't. So the world awaits his words before we can move on beyond 9 November.
Do I really live in a democracy in Wales or has it passed me by?
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Nothings perfect Elwood. But it's fun to see the right wingers on here showing off their yoga skills by twisting themselves into any torturous position just to criticize the Welsh government.
The aim is laudable to protect small business though it will obviously protect large businesses at the same time ( although those with an online presence may not do so badly - that's Primark stuffed then!!)
But pointing out that there is a large and obvious loophole in this policy is hardly tortuous.
And I am more centrist than right wing
Now where has my butler gone.......
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Alun Cairns , the former Welsh secretary voted against the school meals initiative for underprivileged kids
In the past he has claimed for a second home in Cardiff even though he lives 25 minutes drive from Cardiff
He's got more faces than a town hall clock
Its why I hate tories , not traditional one nation conservatives like Ken Clarke but tories
Drakeford has the charisma of a 3 day old fish , he's made many mistakes and I hope to God Welsh Labour soon find someone better to lead the party
His policies regarding this pandemic have been haphazard but this latest lock down is to reduce the increase in cases and save lives
To suggest he's doing this to prove a political point is asshole thinking and to suggest he's deliberately trying to wreck the economy is utter bollocks . My old dear is 86 , if she dies peacefully in her sleep from old age that's the way it goes . If some silly bunch of twats at number 26 have a house party and spread the virus and she has a long lingering death I won't be blaming drakeford , I will be going round to see them with my mate Mr baseball bat
I agree with Lisvaneblue the micromanagement is daft and things need to be made clearer . Parents of young children need to be assured they can get pampers or nappies etc
But at the very core we are talking about the health and welfare of everybody . And the old bill , care workers , people working in chemists and the doctors and nurses need protecting . As do people working in shops serving us.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
First, I think Drakeford should stop micro-managing the people of Wales. Yes we have a lockdown but to dictate a list of what we can or cannot buy in a supermarket is ridiculous. He talks about being fair to businesses that have closed, but how about him being fair to us for a change. If he wants us to minimise our time outside our homes then a one stop shop is the answer for many. When we are in the store then it makes sense to try and buy all we need be it beer or a new kettle in one visit. He is fast becoming a tin pot dictator in many peoples' eyes.
Secondly, why are we having this lockdown? He says he follows the advice of his technical advisors who say that this lockdown may save as many as 750 lives by March 2021. But to do that did he have to lockdown the whole of Wales where some areas have the lowest incidence of Covid in the UK? And the cost in lost jobs and bust business....who knows?
Finally, what next? He promised he would tell us last Friday on his weekly TV show, but he hasn't. So the world awaits his words before we can move on beyond 9 November.
Do I really live in a democracy in Wales or has it passed me by?
Probably to do with clarity of message
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
First, I think Drakeford should stop micro-managing the people of Wales. Yes we have a lockdown but to dictate a list of what we can or cannot buy in a supermarket is ridiculous. He talks about being fair to businesses that have closed, but how about him being fair to us for a change. If he wants us to minimise our time outside our homes then a one stop shop is the answer for many. When we are in the store then it makes sense to try and buy all we need be it beer or a new kettle in one visit. He is fast becoming a tin pot dictator in many peoples' eyes.
Secondly, why are we having this lockdown? He says he follows the advice of his technical advisors who say that this lockdown may save as many as 750 lives by March 2021. But to do that did he have to lockdown the whole of Wales where some areas have the lowest incidence of Covid in the UK? And the cost in lost jobs and bust business....who knows?
Finally, what next? He promised he would tell us last Friday on his weekly TV show, but he hasn't. So the world awaits his words before we can move on beyond 9 November.
Do I really live in a democracy in Wales or has it passed me by?
I for one am perfectly happy he's micro managing people; remember the "Doncaster Races" outing a month or so back in Abercynon? In a worldwide crisis people cannot be relied upon to do the right thing so sorry if it saves lives then democracy can take s back seat as far as I'm concerned. But Drakeford is far from a tin pot dictator, we should be proud of and thankful for his efforts compared to the idiot presiding over England.
I'm sure if you read some of the threads on here you'd understand why he's curtailed the sale of "non essential" goods in supermarkets. No it's not perfect and yes we can all quibble about what is essential or not and I'm sure I could find disagreement with him on some items on his list but the reasoning behind it is sound. It's an honest attempt to make a difficult situation a fair one. He obviously doesn't want to disadvantage smaller traders unduly; and that's right and proper in my book.
I'm not going to go into depth on the reasons why he implemented this firebreak but suffice to say the national lockdown in the spring saved countless lives and I believe there is no other option to address the problem given the current situation with test and trace failings and the absence of a vaccine. As for it being widespread well I'm absolutely delighted it is in the spirit of unity and solidarity.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
People are stupid
A bus load of pissed up idiots crosses the country leading to a spike
Drakeford gets a kicking for asking people to stay at home and buy essentials only
The mistake he has made is saying you can buy alcohol but not other goods that clearly are essential
This is where he needs to sharpen up
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
True, but the main reason for it is the first part of my sentence though isn't it, stopping people from going to the supermarket unless they have to. Yes I know there's loopholes, people don't have to buy alcohol for example. None of this is easy and there is no logically flawless catch all
From what Drakeford said the main reason for the non essential item ban was to protect the businesses that had to close not to stop supermarket visits.
Weren't people told in the National Lockdown that they could only buy non essential goods if they were bought at the same time as their essential food shopping to stop having too many visits
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
I don't think any of our leaders in the UK have done that well to be honest.
(Sorry that was meant to be a response to one of Dorcus where he said we should proud of Drakefords response to the pandemic or something along those lines.)
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
I don't think any of our leaders in the UK have done that well to be honest.
(Sorry that was meant to be a response to one of Dorcus where he said we should proud of Drakefords response to the pandemic or something along those lines.)
Each has had different ups and downs. Think Drakeford has communicated Senedd's choices better than most, Sturgeon has gone hard and early which is what was initially needed and needed again at start of second spike, Boris opened up as soon as could which gave boost to economy. On the other hand, Drakeford has probably been overly cautious, Sturgeon has made some decisions which will be seen as big errors with time, and Boris has done several things wrong, largely errors in communication and in big moments, but got lucky on basis of greater wealth and/or greater space between clusters of people in England.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
The problem is that clothes etc will be bought on line.
They usually arrive next say and once people get used to it they will keep doing it.
Could affect the shops more than if they bought a few clothes from the supermarkets
We had months of lockdown earlier in the year. People bought online. I don't buy into any claims that this latest, brief lockdown will inspire a new generation of internet buyers.
On reflection, I don't really know where I stand on whether non-essential items shouldn't be available, simply because for some people at some times, what may be non-essential for the vast majority will be very essential. I certainly think anything for babies and children should be absolutely essential.
However, I feel that the biggest issue with all of this isn't actually the items themselves. It's from people who have had enough of being told what to do, who feel their freedom isn't their own, so there's a natural rebellion. Misinformation has been spread around along with nonsensical conspiracy theories, dividing normal people in a similar way to Brexit. I can't help but think that if we had a major war now and people were ordered to have their lights out by certain times, to follow procedures for all sorts of things, we'd have conspiracy theorists and peddling of bollocks by those supposedly more upset at losing a few freedoms.
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Re: No U turn on essential goods ban