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3 out of 6 to go down?
Thankyou Stoke for beating Hull today.
There is a bit of a gap developing between the bottom 6 and the rest, and fortunately all are losing, apart from Derby.
The way things are looking 45 points should be enough to stay up. Whether are not City will get there I don't know, but must have a decent chance if we can bring a couple more players in, and antivaxer Moore doesnt get covid again.
Derby are losing players and possibly a manager, so despite their excellent form I dont think they will be able to keep it up.
Fingers crossed time certainly.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
If we avoid it this time can you see any form of plan that indicates we won’t be in the same situation next season?
The malaise is frightening
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Have to be optimistic that if we stay up the changes already made and will be made by the summer will see us better equipped next season.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
If we avoid it this time can you see any form of plan that indicates we won’t be in the same situation next season?
The malaise is frightening
I genuinely think that's the most pertinent question we've had on the board for a long time. Unless money is spent on acquiring better quality we might be in the same situation next season and without any other teams having had points docked.
The more worrying scenario is that situation may be in League 1.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
I think if we stay up this season we'll be ok next season
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
I think if we stay up this season we'll be ok next season
Out of interest why?
City at best will be treading water for the foreseeable few seasons. I don't see Tan investing heavily again and I don't see any innovative coach coming to a club which looks from the outside to be an absolute basket case, to develop a team which could challenge in this league.
I get the feeling that the current regime will be happy to avoid relegation this season and make it the target for next.
If that isn't their objective? They're more clueless than I've feared.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
I genuinely think that's the most pertinent question we've had on the board for a long time. Unless money is spent on acquiring better quality we might be in the same situation next season and without any other teams having had points docked.
The more worrying scenario is that situation may be in League 1.
Tan will be lucky to get 25p for the club if we go down….
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Former Labour leader
Thankyou Stoke for beating Hull today.
There is a bit of a gap developing between the bottom 6 and the rest, and fortunately all are losing, apart from Derby.
The way things are looking 45 points should be enough to stay up. Whether are not City will get there I don't know, but must have a decent chance if we can bring a couple more players in, and antivaxer Moore doesnt get covid again.
Derby are losing players and possibly a manager, so despite their excellent form I dont think they will be able to keep it up.
Fingers crossed time certainly.
If we beat the wurzels next we could easily drag them and swansea into it
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Out of interest why?
City at best will be treading water for the foreseeable few seasons. I don't see Tan investing heavily again and I don't see any innovative coach coming to a club which looks from the outside to be an absolute basket case, to develop a team which could challenge in this league.
I get the feeling that the current regime will be happy to avoid relegation this season and make it the target for next.
If that isn't their objective? They're more clueless than I've feared.
I think that a lot of our problems stem from the senior players at the club many of which are out of contract this summer. They are almost all past it, not good enough or overpaid (most of them all three). Their departures would cut the amount spent on wages massively, giving us greater room to find player more suited to the new way Morison/the board want us to play. Our ability to make many changes is hugely constrained by these players, most of them on big contracts and severely limited as footballers. When they go we'll be down to the bare bones sure, but with players perhaps more suited to the way we want to play. I imagine SOME of that saved money will be available for reinforcements.
I'm also encouraged by our recruitment, it's less scattergun than previously and there's clearly some sort of plan as our signings have been markedly different to in the past as we're bringing in cheaper, younger players from lower leagues. A cynic may say it's cost cutting and it may be, but I think it could prove to be successful for us. As long as we don't revert to signing older players on bloated contracts I'm happy.
If we stay up then that means a few of the youngsters will have proven themselves to at least be decent enough players at this level, they will only improve as time goes on and they get more experience. The change in Mark Harris (a player I really like, but don't rate that highly) after a year of being a Championship player is incredible. He looks far better than he did when he broke in to the side. If similar happens to players like Davies, Colwill etc (who are all a few years younger) then that's really promising for the future.
I also don't think we're that much of a basket case, we've certainly been in a bigger mess of the pitch in the past previously and there are growing signs that those at the top are listening to someone who knows what they're on about. The re-structuring of the academy seems to be working, we're investing in expanding that and gone are the days of giving the manager free reign it seems. That's all promising imo as for me the main reason we're in a mess is a certain Neil Warnock, it's no coincidence that almost all of the players running out of contract were signed by him
Also if we somehow manage to stay up with this horrific side who lost 8 on the bounce then we've clearly been cursed to stay in this division forever
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
I think that a lot of our problems stem from the senior players at the club many of which are out of contract this summer. They are almost all past it, not good enough or overpaid (most of them all three). Their departures would cut the amount spent on wages massively, giving us greater room to find player more suited to the new way Morison/the board want us to play. Our ability to make many changes is hugely constrained by these players, most of them on big contracts and severely limited as footballers. When they go we'll be down to the bare bones sure, but with players perhaps more suited to the way we want to play. I imagine SOME of that saved money will be available for reinforcements.
I'm also encouraged by our recruitment, it's less scattergun than previously and there's clearly some sort of plan as our signings have been markedly different to in the past as we're bringing in cheaper, younger players from lower leagues. A cynic may say it's cost cutting and it may be, but I think it could prove to be successful for us. As long as we don't revert to signing older players on bloated contracts I'm happy.
If we stay up then that means a few of the youngsters will have proven themselves to at least be decent enough players at this level, they will only improve as time goes on and they get more experience. The change in Mark Harris (a player I really like, but don't rate that highly) after a year of being a Championship player is incredible. He looks far better than he did when he broke in to the side. If similar happens to players like Davies, Colwill etc (who are all a few years younger) then that's really promising for the future.
I also don't think we're that much of a basket case, we've certainly been in a bigger mess of the pitch in the past previously and there are growing signs that those at the top are listening to someone who knows what they're on about. The re-structuring of the academy seems to be working, we're investing in expanding that and gone are the days of giving the manager free reign it seems. That's all promising imo as for me the main reason we're in a mess is a certain Neil Warnock, it's no coincidence that almost all of the players running out of contract were signed by him
Also if we somehow manage to stay up with this horrific side who lost 8 on the bounce then we've clearly been cursed to stay in this division forever
Some decent points made there and I admire your optimism.
I fear the powers that be will aim low and achieve lower.
Let's be fair if it wasn't for points deductions City would be in the shiit.
It'll be an interesting summer, player recruitment wise.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
[QUOTE=City123;5265038]I think that a lot of our problems stem from the senior players at the club many of which are out of contract this summer. They are almost all past it, not good enough or overpaid (most of them all three). Their departures would cut the amount spent on wages massively, giving us greater room to find player more suited to the new way Morison/the board want us to play. Our ability to make many changes is hugely constrained by these players, most of them on big contracts and severely limited as footballers. When they go we'll be down to the bare bones sure, but with players perhaps more suited to the way we want to play. I imagine SOME of that saved money will be available for reinforcements.
Sensible post 123 :thumbup:
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
If we avoid it this time can you see any form of plan that indicates we won’t be in the same situation next season?
The malaise is frightening
No, the hierarchy seem hell bent on the Club performing in future in the depths of the Football League
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
I think that a lot of our problems stem from the senior players at the club many of which are out of contract this summer. They are almost all past it, not good enough or overpaid (most of them all three). Their departures would cut the amount spent on wages massively, giving us greater room to find player more suited to the new way Morison/the board want us to play. Our ability to make many changes is hugely constrained by these players, most of them on big contracts and severely limited as footballers. When they go we'll be down to the bare bones sure, but with players perhaps more suited to the way we want to play. I imagine SOME of that saved money will be available for reinforcements.
I'm also encouraged by our recruitment, it's less scattergun than previously and there's clearly some sort of plan as our signings have been markedly different to in the past as we're bringing in cheaper, younger players from lower leagues. A cynic may say it's cost cutting and it may be, but I think it could prove to be successful for us. As long as we don't revert to signing older players on bloated contracts I'm happy.
If we stay up then that means a few of the youngsters will have proven themselves to at least be decent enough players at this level, they will only improve as time goes on and they get more experience. The change in Mark Harris (a player I really like, but don't rate that highly) after a year of being a Championship player is incredible. He looks far better than he did when he broke in to the side. If similar happens to players like Davies, Colwill etc (who are all a few years younger) then that's really promising for the future.
I also don't think we're that much of a basket case, we've certainly been in a bigger mess of the pitch in the past previously and there are growing signs that those at the top are listening to someone who knows what they're on about. The re-structuring of the academy seems to be working, we're investing in expanding that and gone are the days of giving the manager free reign it seems. That's all promising imo as for me the main reason we're in a mess is a certain Neil Warnock, it's no coincidence that almost all of the players running out of contract were signed by him
Also if we somehow manage to stay up with this horrific side who lost 8 on the bounce then we've clearly been cursed to stay in this division forever
Good post. I agree with almost all of that - apart from the curse! :thumbup:
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
The way we've played and the way the club has done business we deserve to go down.
But we won't
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Is Rooney really in the frame to manage Everton?
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
Is Rooney really in the frame to manage Everton?
yes
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
I think that a lot of our problems stem from the senior players at the club many of which are out of contract this summer. They are almost all past it, not good enough or overpaid (most of them all three). Their departures would cut the amount spent on wages massively, giving us greater room to find player more suited to the new way Morison/the board want us to play. Our ability to make many changes is hugely constrained by these players, most of them on big contracts and severely limited as footballers. When they go we'll be down to the bare bones sure, but with players perhaps more suited to the way we want to play. I imagine SOME of that saved money will be available for reinforcements.
I'm also encouraged by our recruitment, it's less scattergun than previously and there's clearly some sort of plan as our signings have been markedly different to in the past as we're bringing in cheaper, younger players from lower leagues. A cynic may say it's cost cutting and it may be, but I think it could prove to be successful for us. As long as we don't revert to signing older players on bloated contracts I'm happy.
If we stay up then that means a few of the youngsters will have proven themselves to at least be decent enough players at this level, they will only improve as time goes on and they get more experience. The change in Mark Harris (a player I really like, but don't rate that highly) after a year of being a Championship player is incredible. He looks far better than he did when he broke in to the side. If similar happens to players like Davies, Colwill etc (who are all a few years younger) then that's really promising for the future.
I also don't think we're that much of a basket case, we've certainly been in a bigger mess of the pitch in the past previously and there are growing signs that those at the top are listening to someone who knows what they're on about. The re-structuring of the academy seems to be working, we're investing in expanding that and gone are the days of giving the manager free reign it seems. That's all promising imo as for me the main reason we're in a mess is a certain Neil Warnock, it's no coincidence that almost all of the players running out of contract were signed by him
Also if we somehow manage to stay up with this horrific side who lost 8 on the bounce then we've clearly been cursed to stay in this division forever
This is probably the best post i've read in months on here :ayatollah:
Keep the faith :ayatollah:
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
I think that a lot of our problems stem from the senior players at the club many of which are out of contract this summer. They are almost all past it, not good enough or overpaid (most of them all three). Their departures would cut the amount spent on wages massively, giving us greater room to find player more suited to the new way Morison/the board want us to play. Our ability to make many changes is hugely constrained by these players, most of them on big contracts and severely limited as footballers. When they go we'll be down to the bare bones sure, but with players perhaps more suited to the way we want to play. I imagine SOME of that saved money will be available for reinforcements.
I'm also encouraged by our recruitment, it's less scattergun than previously and there's clearly some sort of plan as our signings have been markedly different to in the past as we're bringing in cheaper, younger players from lower leagues. A cynic may say it's cost cutting and it may be, but I think it could prove to be successful for us. As long as we don't revert to signing older players on bloated contracts I'm happy.
If we stay up then that means a few of the youngsters will have proven themselves to at least be decent enough players at this level, they will only improve as time goes on and they get more experience. The change in Mark Harris (a player I really like, but don't rate that highly) after a year of being a Championship player is incredible. He looks far better than he did when he broke in to the side. If similar happens to players like Davies, Colwill etc (who are all a few years younger) then that's really promising for the future.
I also don't think we're that much of a basket case, we've certainly been in a bigger mess of the pitch in the past previously and there are growing signs that those at the top are listening to someone who knows what they're on about. The re-structuring of the academy seems to be working, we're investing in expanding that and gone are the days of giving the manager free reign it seems. That's all promising imo as for me the main reason we're in a mess is a certain Neil Warnock, it's no coincidence that almost all of the players running out of contract were signed by him
Also if we somehow manage to stay up with this horrific side who lost 8 on the bounce then we've clearly been cursed to stay in this division forever
I’m in agreement with you. Whether we stay up or go down, the coming summer should be seen as a big opportunity to build a competitive, Championship standard squad.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Some decent points made there and I admire your optimism.
I fear the powers that be will aim low and achieve lower.
Let's be fair if it wasn't for points deductions City would be in the shiit.
It'll be an interesting summer, player recruitment wise.
If it weren't for Derby & Reading's points deductions we'd be in the bottom 3, FIVE points adrift. For the 1st time in a few seasons we need to actually improve, not just tread water.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
If it weren't for Derby & Reading's points deductions we'd be in the bottom 3, FIVE points adrift. For the 1st time in a few seasons we need to actually improve, not just tread water.
we were always going to be worse this season, due to the massively reduced playing budget, with so much of it tied up with past it players.
we will release some money in the summer for wages,. we just need to use it well.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
If it weren't for Derby & Reading's points deductions we'd be in the bottom 3, FIVE points adrift. For the 1st time in a few seasons we need to actually improve, not just tread water.
That's the scary bit. Better hope neither of them appeal...
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
If it weren't for Derby & Reading's points deductions we'd be in the bottom 3, FIVE points adrift. For the 1st time in a few seasons we need to actually improve, not just tread water.
People talk about the Reading and Derby points deductions (in fact any club's points deductions) as if they were random 'acts of god' that hit the unlucky club and benefitted their rivals.
Rubbish.
These clubs have been doing wrong. They have been breaking the rules to benefit themselves, their squads, and their league position.
The points deductions are to correct and punish their wrong-doing.
It is a similar mindset to our fans who constantly claim the team were lucky because the opposition hit a post or our goalkeeper saved a shot. If it wasn't for X, Y or Z then something else would have happened! Usually it involves ignoring any and all of our close shaves or missed attempts and concentrating on where we might have shipped a goal if the other side were more accurate or lucky!
It is a weird form of masochism.
If we stay up this season because Derby and/or Reading finish below us because of a points deduction we will have deserved it. They are not unlucky. They got caught and punished.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
People talk about the Reading and Derby points deductions (in fact any club's points deductions) as if they were random 'acts of god' that hit the unlucky club and benefitted their rivals.
Rubbish.
These clubs have been doing wrong. They have been breaking the rules to benefit themselves, their squads, and their league position.
The points deductions are to correct and punish their wrong-doing.
It is a similar mindset to our fans who constantly claim the team were lucky because the opposition hit a post or our goalkeeper saved a shot. If it wasn't for X, Y or Z then something else would have happened! Usually it involves ignoring any and all of our close shaves or missed attempts and concentrating on where we might have shipped a goal if the other side were more accurate or lucky!
It is a weird form of masochism.
If we stay up this season because Derby and/or Reading finish below us because of a points deduction we will have deserved it. They are not unlucky. They got caught and punished.
I'm not sure the claim is so much that these teams are unlucky. But more just that based on results alone this season we would be lower still. Yes, it's ifs and buts territory but perhaps a warning that some teams behind us have actually been performing better than us so far overall and if things continue as they are we should probably expect them to catch and possibly overtake us.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
We should do a Newcastle and sign Tom Lawrence. Again.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I’m in agreement with you. Whether we stay up or go down, the coming summer should be seen as a big opportunity to build a competitive, Championship standard squad.
I'm not sure how we're going to build a competitive, Championship-standard squad in the summer if we'll be playing in League One next season.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
I'm not sure how we're going to build a competitive, Championship-standard squad in the summer if we'll be playing in League One next season.
That’s what sides that get promoted and manage to stay up do.
We’ve been promoted to the second tier three times since I’ve been supporting City and stayed up each time, twice comfortably, despite hardly being flush with money on two of those occasions - the point is that the summer represents a great opportunity for rebuilding and it doesn’t have to be inevitable that we’ll struggle next season.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
That’s what sides that get promoted and manage to stay up do.
We’ve been promoted to the second tier three times since I’ve been supporting City and stayed up each time, twice comfortably, despite hardly being flush with money on two of those occasions - the point is that the summer represents a great opportunity for rebuilding and it doesn’t have to be inevitable that we’ll struggle next season.
Are you confident the club will get their aims, strategy and recruitment right then?
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
People talk about the Reading and Derby points deductions (in fact any club's points deductions) as if they were random 'acts of god' that hit the unlucky club and benefitted their rivals.
Rubbish.
These clubs have been doing wrong. They have been breaking the rules to benefit themselves, their squads, and their league position.
The points deductions are to correct and punish their wrong-doing.
It is a similar mindset to our fans who constantly claim the team were lucky because the opposition hit a post or our goalkeeper saved a shot. If it wasn't for X, Y or Z then something else would have happened! Usually it involves ignoring any and all of our close shaves or missed attempts and concentrating on where we might have shipped a goal if the other side were more accurate or lucky!
It is a weird form of masochism.
If we stay up this season because Derby and/or Reading finish below us because of a points deduction we will have deserved it. They are not unlucky. They got caught and punished.
Spot on, and I look at their squads and still think they’ve got more experienced players than us even now- even though they are supposed to be on their knees.
There’s a huge chunk going off our wage bill in the summer, plus an awful court case to deal with , both of which will have major impacts on our budget. All this with extra restrictions being put upon us by our local government.
Add to this key players getting injuries and not per morning or not being 100% (Morrison and Moore for example were amongst the best at this level last season, but are just shadows this season)and an unbalanced side with big deficiencies and holes not dealt with in the summer ( lack of pace, back and front creativity middle and up front, no senior wide players, no senior left back)senior and well paid players like Murphy, Tomlin (we will have paid a big chunk of his contract off) and Vassell contributing nothing and it’s no surprise we are struggling- can add to that a suicidal ex manager..
But all of this can be addressed and I’m confident it will be in the summer.
Key though is to stay up - 2-3 wins in the next few weeks and I’ll sleep easier.
Hopefully starting on Saturday 🤞
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Are you confident the club will get their aims, strategy and recruitment right then?
No, that’s why I’m only talking about an opportunity.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
No, that’s why I’m only talking about an opportunity.
Me neither, I'm not entirely convinced they're even 'that' interested in development or competing in this league.
Treading water seems to be the aim. I'm not sure that's going to be enough next season?
I'm a miserable bugger mind.
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Re: 3 out of 6 to go down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
People talk about the Reading and Derby points deductions (in fact any club's points deductions) as if they were random 'acts of god' that hit the unlucky club and benefitted their rivals.
Rubbish.
These clubs have been doing wrong. They have been breaking the rules to benefit themselves, their squads, and their league position.
The points deductions are to correct and punish their wrong-doing.
It is a similar mindset to our fans who constantly claim the team were lucky because the opposition hit a post or our goalkeeper saved a shot. If it wasn't for X, Y or Z then something else would have happened! Usually it involves ignoring any and all of our close shaves or missed attempts and concentrating on where we might have shipped a goal if the other side were more accurate or lucky!
It is a weird form of masochism.
If we stay up this season because Derby and/or Reading finish below us because of a points deduction we will have deserved it. They are not unlucky. They got caught and punished.
:thumbup:
