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We can see why splott David was such a Corbin fan. Labour has become a safe place to be a vile person. No wonder SD liked him so much. Such a shame he has been given a very long holiday from this board :hehe:
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58...b0010a7f3e99cf
I hope this sort of behaviour is stamped out. I do hope to vote labour again, but it's becoming less and less likely the longer labour allow such rabid behaviour to exist under their banner.
Has he been given the hook? He's so thin skinned about people arguing his points that I guessed he'd cried off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon
I was very worried when the allegations of widespread anti-semitism in Labour appeared.
Then most headline cases I looked at seemed to either disprove the allegations (and I'm sorry Naz Shah didn't stand her ground a bit more) or came from nameless trolls on social media - many of whom seem to have nothing to do with Labour. These include the stupidly timed but not anti-semitic Nazi-Zionism comments of Ken Livingstone, the comments by Jackie Walker (vice chair of Momentum until forced to resign) on definitions, slave trade financing linked to other historical 'holocausts' (she has black and Jewish heritage), the Oxford student union allegations (re-sending lines from a David Baddiel play!) and the Ruth Smeeth MP walk out from the Labour anti-semitism event claiming she had been racially abused (no she wasn't - Marc Wadsworth called her out for feeding anti-Corbyn bullets to the Daily Telegraph) which was the most cynical of the lot.
Whilst I am sure there is anti-semitism in the Labour Party I see no evidence that it is worse than any other party, and a lot of evidence that it is challenged more consistently. I am disgusted the way that Corbyn and Labour are being smeared from a bloc of MPs and hostile activists from within, as well as enemies without (from sections of the press led by the Guardian not the Mail, to pressure groups and lobbies, to governments and government agencies who have an interest in defending Israeli state policies and its main political ideology).
Now we have the Home Affairs Select Committee piling in (5 Tories, I SNP and 2 Labour - including Chuka Umunna). It is a crude hatchet job as many commentators have pointed out. It reinforces the largely discredited 'working definition' of anti-semitism promoted by the European Monitoring Centre on Racism & Xenophobia that deliberately conflates anti-semitism and anti-Zionism. I have far more confidence in the honesty and imartiality of Shami Chakrabarti than the Home Affairs Select Committee. I may not trust her asthe face of a Labour education policy (son to private school) but on this issue I do.
what happened to the party I loved
Glad you could find a completely unbiased source!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Dai Splodd on his twitter account retweets pro trump supporters and hopes he wins :hehe:
That is all you need to know.
Unbiased? Well it is the opinion of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign not John Mann or the Daily Mail (or The Guardian) so it is different. As the statement makes clear the PSC has opposition to anti-semitism written into its constitution. It is also detailed, restrained and well argued in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
I happen to agree with them, but it is a viewpoint drowned out by the majority of the media and the vast majority of MPs - including all or almost all of those that make up the (obviously unbiased) Home Affairs Select Committee. Are you offended by reading a different take on this issue?
Is SD a member of the Labour Party?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon
Spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
The Get Corbyn campaign remains in full swing.
Labour are dead. thank god
Wishful thinking Tommy. Labour will only be in serious trouble if Jezza’s successor comes from the right of the party which would immediately alienate its hundreds of thousands of pro-Corbyn members. They need to keep that new-found energy and dynamism within the party. They’d lose it overnight if say, a Chuka Umunna, was elected as their next leader.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
And in the immediate future there are the consequences of Brexit to consider. Where will the seething animus of the defeated Remain vote be directed? And what if the economy goes tits-up under the Tories? Too soon to write off Labour.
so you can see labour winning an election in the next 10 years? I certainly can't. you don't win an election by having more members than everyone else, you win it by having more votes. people are choosing not to vote for labour (for whatever reason). They've left us with a tory government for the foreseeable future. Thankfully, there is an alternative here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabalphaville
who's that then butt ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
Alternative to a Tory government we didn't elect? Becoming independent and ensuring that every party that rules over Wales is voted in by WalesQuote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
Didn't we rejected becoming independent by vote?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
If we were to ever vote for independence I hope the people of Wales will wake up given time and vote for the party of the right. There will always be right leaning people in Wales and there are far more Tories in Wales and people with right wing views than the luvvies in Pontcanna give Wales credit for.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
noQuote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
Whichever side the party in power would be on, we could all be sure that the party wales votes for would be the party in power in Wales. That's not always the case in the UK, and isn't at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
When did we vote and agree to independence ?
If/When the Jocks vote for it I foresee the break up of the Union but we won't get a vote on it, it will be given to us. I think the powers that be will want indy for England, NI and Wales. At least that way it won't be such a messy break up.
We haven't yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
This is how I see it too. We'll be on the short list of countries who gained independence against their will in this case. ShamefulQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948
Welsh Voters are quite happy being little England :thumbup::biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948
there is no real push to move away from England
I think that a few more years of this will mean the question will be genuinely thought about, instead of just being rubbished, exactly like you're doing now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
As a Plaid voter last time out, i'm not really rubbishing it. I just tend to accept the results of elections and get on with it, I liken yourself to a politician, you will not accept what you don't see yourself, Brexit being the obvious example, the people voted (I never), a decision was given to politicians by way of the vote and politicians still tell the people who voted, they voted incorrectly, have you noticed a big rise in UKIP votes in Wales? they are not a party who i could NOT vote for but a great deal many did and think they are the only alternative to the Tories, for me the issue of UKIP becoming a well represented party in Wales is far more important than skulking about independence, the valleys received a disproportionate level of funding from the EU compared to many other places in the UK, much of the money was squandered, the people saw next to nothing and voted accordingly, I don't think the question will be genuinely thought about by the majority of Welsh people, I think they will think of other things that mean more to them than parochialism. IMO gaining independence from England isn't going to be the catalyst to Wales growing socially and economically, however, and if it did, I would be delighted, I don't have any axe to grind either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
So we'd get indy but you'd still suggest it would be shameful? What a muppet you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
I would say that the average person is more right-wing than world history's worst despots when it comes to law and order. Most would happily return to capital punishment. But ask them whether they would be prepared to hang in error (as many before have) and they're stumped for a logical answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948
As for all this contrived anti-semitic stuff, Voltaire said: "To learn who rules over you, simply discover who you are not allowed to criticise."
Liken it to leaving a pub, or being thrown out of a pub. You get the same outcome, one is a bit more respectable than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948
I mean, I haven't said any opinions on anything other than independence in this thread. Your assumption that I don't respect the vote, or your message about ukip being a power are something I haven't addressed here. I do respect the vote, and I do think people made the wrong decision. It's possible to be in both camps there. About ukip being a rising party, I think they've already risen. There was a gap for an anti immigration party who give you someone else to blame rather than the current government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonca61
I see it more as the pub ceasing to exist. If the UK is no more we are not getting "thrown out".Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
Oh I see, I wasn't looking at it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948
Of course you weren't because you don't want Indy at any cost do you? You only want it if it's one over on the English/Westminster like most Plaid members. The SNPs campaign is incredibly light on policy but very heavy on Braveheart stuff, Plaid must not go down that ally if they want to succeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy31
Well no, youre misunderstanding me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948
If/when Scotland leave, there'll still be a union between the rest. Which is why used the pub analogy in my recent post. You seem to have come at it from another way and thought that there would be no Union (at least, that's what I'm getting from your post).
I want Indy because I think it's the best thing for Wales. I'd be happy with Indy against our will, just would find it shameful for that to be the case (i.e not believing in yourselves) and would rather get independence because it's a good thing rather than finding ourselves in that scenario by default.
On the point of wanting it to get over on the English/Westminster. It's not that at all. I primarily want it because Wales is being short changed at every single opportunity by Westminster and that is not likely to change. I also don't see why getting independence would be 'getting one over the english'.
Anti-semitism is wrong, as is any other form of racism, but one has to question whether drawing comparisons between Nazi policy and Israeli policy should always count as anti-semitism, and therefore has to question where this report is framed from. This will be used by pro-Israeli speakers to make it even more difficult to highlight the occasions Israel steps over the mark while few will have read through it critically.