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Great player, shite manager
Reading the Zola thread has got me thinking.
In terms of the disparity between playing and managing, has it ever been greater than Zola?
An absolutely sumptuous player but seemingly not cut out for the dugout.
In terms of top class players who then go on to coach/manage, is there anyone that can compare to Gianfranco?
On the same topic, are there any great players who go on to become great managers?
Apart from OGS of course.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Zidane is doing a decent job at Madrid, and was one hell of a player. Pep guardiola was a decent player and decent manager, Luis Enrique. Your are right though, not many top players make top managers
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Russel Slade had an illustrious career playing for Compton Comprehensive School under 13s then went onto be a one man wrecking ball manager at Leyton Orient, Cardiff City, Charlton and finally Coventry City.
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Bobby Robson.
Dino Zoff.
John Toshack.
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Cruyff is definitely the stand out man who was a top top player and a revolutionary as a manager
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Re: Great player, shite manager
The greatest of all, as a player then a manager, was probably Brian Clough.
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Greatest disparity, I give you John Barnes.
Best of both, Beckenbauer.
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Conte was a top player for Juve
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Greatest disparity, I give you John Barnes.
Best of both, Beckenbauer.
Ian rush must be up there in the disparity category.
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Ian rush must be up there in the disparity category.
And Shilton.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
I'm going to remind folks of two of my footballing heroes - Ron Saunders and Tony Barton.
Both played for Pompey - Ron was a 30+ goal-a-season striker; Tony, a tricky right winger. Both went on to manage Villa. Ron won the old 1st Division championship; Tony, the European and UEFA Super cups.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
jack charlton and don revie .
internationally - the kaiser franz beckenbauer.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Bobby Charlton had a go with Preston and was sh!te I recall.
Can't really argue with Brian Clough TBH.
Mediocre players playing for him and the team winning the EC back in those days is some achievement.
Not downgrading modern day managers but with the top clubs it is so much more than down to the one man managing and the systems, stats available these days help enormously.
Clough might not be the best footballer cum manager but he would definitely be in the top one :hide:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Bobby Charlton had a go with Preston and was sh!te I recall.
Can't really argue with Brian Clough TBH.
Mediocre players playing for him and the team winning the EC back in those days is some achievement.
Not downgrading modern day managers but with the top clubs it is so much more than down to the one man managing and the systems, stats available these days help enormously.
Clough might not be the best footballer cum manager but he would definitely be in the top one :hide:
if you remember it was clough and taylor, they were like a double act, without taylor alongside him clough failed miserably every time. :thumbup:
clough was a great manager and achieved great things , but the longevity of his success was only two or three years at both forest and derby.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Bobby Charlton had a go with Preston and was sh!te I recall.
Can't really argue with Brian Clough TBH.
Mediocre players playing for him and the team winning the EC back in those days is some achievement.
Not downgrading modern day managers but with the top clubs it is so much more than down to the one man managing and the systems, stats available these days help enormously.
Clough might not be the best footballer cum manager but he would definitely be in the top one :hide:
Clough was a great manager and a good player so he's up there but Cruyff stands out for me. An innovator as a player and a manager. Ancelotti, Dalglish and Beckenbauer weren't bad either.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Another to mention is Mario Zagallo. Wouldn't put him above Cruyff, but he won the World Cup in 58 and 62, then managed the team in 70 and assistant managed the win in 94.
Can't be many people with four World Cup winning medals.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Joe Mercer, Bill Shankley, Matt Busby, Don Revie, Roy Race, all decent players and decent managers, especially Roy Race, he won the lot as both player and manager, kidnapped a few times as well.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris
if you remember it was clough and taylor, they were like a double act, without taylor alongside him clough failed miserably every time. :thumbup:
clough was a great manager and achieved great things , but the longevity of his success was only two or three years at both forest and derby.
Are you trying to tell me that Brian Clough would not have been half the centre forward if it wasn't for Peter Taylor? :sherlock:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
From the modern era I think you can add Ronald Koeman to that list.
Possibly the next Barca manager.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Are you trying to tell me that Brian Clough would not have been half the centre forward if it wasn't for Peter Taylor? :sherlock:
no i am on about is managerial career :thumbup:, clough was a great player and represented england twice. :thumbup:
his success as a manager was unquestionable even though it was in short bursts at forest and derby but taylor was an integral part of it. :thumbup:
revie had six england caps, but is managerial career at leeds spanned far longer where he built a dynasty. with an unfashionable club at the time much like clough did , and turned them in to one of the most feared and respected teams at home and abroad for nearly a decade :thumbup:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris
no i am on about is managerial career :thumbup:, clough was a great player and represented england twice. :thumbup:
his success as a manager was unquestionable even though it was in short bursts at forest and derby but taylor was an integral part of it. :thumbup:
revie had six england caps, but is managerial career at leeds spanned far longer where he built a dynasty. with an unfashionable club at the time much like clough did , and turned them in to one of the most feared and respected teams at home and abroad for nearly a decade :thumbup:
Personally I think Clough's (and Taylor's) record and achievements at Forest is superior to that of Revie's.
Clough was at Forest longer than Revie was at Leeds and, similarly to Revie, built a club to become arguably one of the best side of its time. And he did all this with out fixing matches
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Originally Posted by
neilw65
Personally I think Clough's (and Taylor's) record and achievements at Forest is superior to that of Revie's.
Clough was at Forest longer than Revie was at Leeds and, similarly to Revie, built a club to become arguably one of the best side of its time. And he did all this with out fixing matches
well theirs a surprise :hehe:
forest did not dominate english football nowhere near as long as revies leeds . :hehe:
they had a 3-4 year period of success, leeds had ten years :thumbup:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris
well theirs a surprise :hehe:
forest did not dominate english football nowhere near as long as revies leeds . :hehe:
they had a 3-4 year period of success, leeds had ten years :thumbup:
Rubbish:hehe:
Leeds have never dominated English football.
Neither have Forest. Though they did win the European Cup twice in a row I believe.
Liverpool , Man U have both dominated English Football.
Leeds of the 70s were well before my time. But im sure they only one the league once in that era.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Originally Posted by
splott parker
Joe Mercer, Bill Shankley, Matt Busby, Don Revie, Roy Race, all decent players and decent managers, especially Roy Race, he won the lot as both player and manager, kidnapped a few times as well.
:hehe:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
Rubbish:hehe:
Leeds have never dominated English football.
Neither have Forest. Though they did win the European Cup twice in a row I believe.
Liverpool , Man U have both dominated English Football.
Leeds of the 70s were well before my time. But im sure they only one the league once in that era.
jesus the buses dont run where you live do they . :hehe:
65- 75 leeds were easily the most dominant force in english football :thumbup: and we are talking about when they was far more clubs capable of competing for trophies than their is today . :thumbup:
they was no sheikhs or sugar daddies around bankrolling clubs and trying to buy trophies like your chelseas and man citys of this world . :hehe:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Russell Osman, Kenny Hibbert, Phil neal, not great players I'll grant you, but managers?
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris
jesus the buses dont run where you live do they . :hehe:
65- 75 leeds were easily the most dominant force in english football :thumbup: and we are talking about when they was far more clubs capable of competing for trophies than their is today . :thumbup:
they was no sheikhs or sugar daddies around bankrolling clubs and trying to buy trophies like your chelseas and man citys of this world . :hehe:
I think you should stick to the fishing in Merthyr.:hehe:
2 league titles in that period. Hardly dominated English Football. 2nd a lot. Bottlers?
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
I think you should stick to the fishing in Merthyr.:hehe:
2 league titles in that period. Hardly dominated English Football. 2nd a lot. Bottlers?
yes i agree they should have won far more than what they did :thumbup:
but their consistency level was unbelievable chasing four trophies every season , anybody who was around in that era will tell you the same, they was hated by many, but they were unquestionably the dogs bollocks of that era. :thumbup:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Radio Wales listeners I give you Kevin Radcliffe.
I tell you what - a shite pundit as well.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris
well theirs a surprise :hehe:
forest did not dominate english football nowhere near as long as revies leeds . :hehe:
they had a 3-4 year period of success, leeds had ten years :thumbup:
Leeds didn't dominate for 10 years. They had a 10 year spell where they won 2 league titles, a league cup, an FA cup and a mickey mouse european trophy. The rest of the time they were nearly men. 1975 against Bayern springs to mind.
For what it worth, my old man was Leeds through and though and he used to take me to Elland Road a few times every season during the 70s. I got to see all of them great players play. Infact I've probably been to Elland Road more times than you have :biggrin:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Joe Mercer, Bill Shankley, Matt Busby, Don Revie, Roy Race, all decent players and decent managers, especially Roy Race, he won the lot as both player and manager, kidnapped a few times as well.
Brilliant :hehe:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Originally Posted by
The Alien
Leeds didn't dominate for 10 years. They had a 10 year spell where they won 2 league titles, a league cup, an FA cup and a mickey mouse european trophy. The rest of the time they were nearly men. 1975 against Bayern springs to mind.
For what it worth, my old man was Leeds through and though and he used to take me to Elland Road a few times every season during the 70s. I got to see all of them great players play. Infact I've probably been to Elland Road more times than you have :biggrin:
what a load of crap :hehe:
in a four year period forest won 1 league title, 2 european cups and 3 league cups,then faded away into obscurity before appearing in an fa cup final losing to spurs in 91.
leeds in a ten year period, won two league titles, finished runners up 5 times in the league, twice on goal difference, won 1 fa cup, lost in 3 other fa cup finals, won 1 league cup, they also also appeared in 6 european finals winning the uefa cup twice, and were cheated out of winning both the european cup and cup winners cup final by bent referees which was subsequently proven years later :thumbup:
they also never finished out of the top four for ten years , in an era where plenty of teams were competing for trophies
the difference is great sides compete at the top level consistently over a long period of time , the revie side is legendary . cloughs forest side even though it was successful was nowhere near as good or performed at the top level as long as revies leeds did :thumbup:
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Originally Posted by
chris
what a load of crap :hehe:
in a four year period forest won 1 league title, 2 european cups and 3 league cups,then faded away into obscurity before appearing in an fa cup final losing to spurs in 91.
leeds in a ten year period, won two league titles, finished runners up 5 times in the league, twice on goal difference, won 1 fa cup, lost in 3 other fa cup finals, won 1 league cup, they also also appeared in 6 european finals winning the uefa cup twice, and were cheated out of winning both the european cup and cup winners cup final by bent referees which was subsequently proven years later :thumbup:
they also never finished out of the top four for ten years , in an era where plenty of teams were competing for trophies
the difference is great sides compete at the top level consistently over a long period of time , the revie side is legendary . cloughs forest side even though it was successful was nowhere near as good or performed at the top level as long as revies leeds did :thumbup:
you do *NOT* shoot an unarmed child in the back of the head it is just not on you twat.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Originally Posted by
kingbillyboy
you do *NOT* shoot an unarmed child in the back of the head it is just not on you twat.
there is too many dummies on here who do not know football history :thumbup: , its hardly surprising supporting cardiff city, they have not got any :hehe:
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go on then you fruity handjob tell us all about football. can you explain the offside rule? no of course you cant because you are an armchair murderer.
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Re: Great player, shite manager
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
Rubbish:hehe:
Leeds have never dominated English football.
Neither have Forest. Though they did win the European Cup twice in a row I believe.
Liverpool , Man U have both dominated English Football.
Leeds of the 70s were well before my time. But im sure they only one the league once in that era.
Sorry mate, no time to Leeds but they were a great side over a long period of time, you had to see them to appreciate that. But you were too young, you can't leaf through record books to judge a great team.
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Originally Posted by
Joe Gillis
Sorry mate, no time to Leeds but they were a great side over a long period of time, you had to see them to appreciate that. But you were too young, you can't leaf through record books to judge a great team.
well said pal educate the peasants. :hehe: