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So it's National Insurance then
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?
Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Ah yes - but it's only a 1.25% increase and not the 2% we were being told - or spun.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?
Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)
Yeah, that's a good outline for a Socialist Worker editorial at any point in the last 50 years, but it isn't really true.
The top 1% of income tax payers pay around a 25% of all income tax.
The bottom half of all income tax payers pay 10%.
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/9178
And rightly so, may I add.
I would probably rather they increased income tax than national insurance, but something had to be done.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?
Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)
Yeah but at the same time lets acknowledge that a generation has completely underpaid into the system and now we are starting to see the problems that has caused. At the same time, the property ponzi scheme has favoured them as supply has dried up.
For reference, I stand to gain from this policy in the long run as my parents have significant (but not obscene) wealth so this isn't about envy or a generational attack (I know these are the favoured tools of people without a point to make) but about fairness and cold hard logic.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Yeah, that's a good outline for a Socialist Worker editorial at any point in the last 50 years, but it isn't really true.
The top 1% of income tax payers pay around a 25% of all income tax.
The bottom half of all income tax payers pay 10%.
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/9178
And rightly so, may I add.
I would probably rather they increased income tax than national insurance, but something had to be done.
We desperately needed to make sure that pensioners with 500k+ wealth only need to spend a fraction of it on care? They can't spend it when you are dead and their 'kids' are already retirement age.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Yeah, that's a good outline for a Socialist Worker editorial at any point in the last 50 years, but it isn't really true.
The top 1% of income tax payers pay around a 25% of all income tax.
The bottom half of all income tax payers pay 10%.
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/9178
And rightly so, may I add.
I would probably rather they increased income tax than national insurance, but something had to be done.
Well obviously the bottom half pay less because income equality led by right wing thinking is off the charts. Look at wages and house prices from 50 years ago compared to today its insane.
Specifically tell me what I said that isn't true.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
We desperately needed to make sure that pensioners with 500k+ wealth only need to spend a fraction of it on care? They can't spend it when you are dead and their 'kids' are already retirement age.
They will still pay upto £85,000, no?
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
They will still pay upto £85,000, no?
They pay until their savings reach 85000
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
They will still pay upto £85,000, no?
Yep, what does that work out as? 18 months worth? I would love to see a breakdown of cost of care and cost of occupancy/sustenance within a care home, I think it is probably right that care is paid for out of some kind of general taxation (that rich pensioners aren't excluded from paying themselves). But what does the 1k a week for a care home pay for currently, at least a third of that must be 'rent' and food, maybe the answer is more pragmatism about the true cost breakdown and a reflection on who should pay for that and why?
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
They pay until their savings reach 85000
Other way around, nobody will pay more than 85k
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Bloody Socialists
Germany’s system offers a minimum level of benefits and does not cover the full costs of care.
Individual service users must pay the remaining costs plus any costs of bed and board in residential care (social assistance pays in the case of people with very low means).
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Yep, what does that work out as? 18 months worth? I would love to see a breakdown of cost of care and cost of occupancy/sustenance within a care home, I think it is probably right that care is paid for out of some kind of general taxation (that rich pensioners aren't excluded from paying themselves). But what does the 1k a week for a care home pay for currently, at least a third of that must be 'rent' and food, maybe the answer is more pragmatism about the true cost breakdown and a reflection on who should pay for that and why?
The care home my mum is in it works out around 17 months, so we'll be at that point in about a month's time. be interesting to see this pans out now The home she is in is brilliant but obviously expensive.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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A health and social care tax will be introduced across the UK to pay for reforms to the care sector and NHS funding in England
So what's going to happen in NI, Scotland and Wales?
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
surge
So what's going to happen in NI, Scotland and Wales?
Sounds like they will get a population share of around £6billion between them, and the bit I didn't like... to spend as they see fit.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
We desperately needed to make sure that pensioners with 500k+ wealth only need to spend a fraction of it on care? They can't spend it when you are dead and their 'kids' are already retirement age.
Sounds like the politics of envy there to me. Plus, just because you are living in a house worth over £500000 doesn’t mean you are rich. There are two or three bed semis in Cardiff worth that. Plus again that most pensioners have worked hard all their life, paid their taxes and National Insurance, and spent/saved their money prudently, so why should they have their property snatched off them later in life.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
Doucas
The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?
Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)
I would say that for every ‘rich’ person who has done well out of the pandemic, there are others that have lost loads of money or even their businesses.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
bluesp
Sounds like they will get a population share of around £6billion between them, and the bit I didn't like... to spend as they see fit.
Step up socialist minded Mr Drakeford , simple one waste the Tory right social care extra funding taxation , or spend it wisely
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Having been through the existing system when I had to sell my parents house to pay Nursing Home fees these new arrangements are an improvement even though it is far from perfect. Whatever system anyone comes up with will generate objections but at least Johnson and co have grasped the nettle even though it breaks a major manifesto commitment.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
The social care system in this country has had it
The elderly population keeps living longer
And the people who work in care are paid crap wages
It's a tsunami
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Other way around, nobody will pay more than 85k
Well that's a surprise 😮
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
Vindec
Having been through the existing system when I had to sell my parents house to pay Nursing Home fees these new arrangements are an improvement even though it is far from perfect. Whatever system anyone comes up with will generate objections but at least Johnson and co have grasped the nettle even though it breaks a major manifesto commitment.
I think thats my thinking of it really. Although I havent been through the nursing home situation, my father is in his 70s and in poor health, so it's the medium term future for me.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The social care system in this country has had it
The elderly population keeps living longer
And the people who work in care are paid crap wages
It's a tsunami
Unless its funded from the public purse , taxpayers or as other countries do through separate insurance , as you righty point out folk are living and working longer that pulls on the purse strings as the elderly need greater support and care , we can't have it all ways Covid health funding ,vaccines , job / business support , has tipped the world of government funding on its head , extreme measure for extreme times .
I note the triple lock is going to be suspended or scrapped , this is a big balancing act .
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Social care definitely needs sorting as it's been underfunded for ages, but NI in it's current form is the wrong way to fund it.
Someone earning £20k a year will now pay 6.9% of their salary on NI, going up to 10.7% at £50k - fair enough, but then it starts to go down, with £100k earners paying 7% and £130k earners 6.1%.
Income from share dividends, investments and property are exempt from NI too.
Should be income tax, not NI.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vindec
Whatever system anyone comes up with will generate objections but at least Johnson and co have grasped the nettle even though it breaks a major manifesto commitment.
Yes, the first government to actually do something about the problem.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
Grievous Angel
Ah yes - but it's only a 1.25% increase and not the 2% we were being told - or spun.
Employers pay the same amount so its 2.5% in total.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?
Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)
Yes.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
dml1954
I would say that for every ‘rich’ person who has done well out of the pandemic, there are others that have lost loads of money or even their businesses.
So you're saying wealth inequality has gotten better during the pandemic?
Do you have any sources to back that up?
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
lincoln blue
Employers pay the same amount so its 2.5% in total.
The spin doctors (via the media) told us that individual employeeswould pay 2% extra, so I don't see what point you're trying to make by bringing employers' NI into it.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
The return of the Sheriff of Nottingham.
OAPs pay the1.25 % national insurance tax.
Triple lock suspended.
Fuel bills going through the roof.
Help we need a Robin Hood.
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
dandywarhol
The return of the Sheriff of Nottingham.
OAPs pay the1.25 % national insurance tax.
Triple lock suspended.
Fuel bills going through the roof.
Help we need a Robin Hood.
Do pensioners pay NI still?
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
bluesp
Do pensioners pay NI still?
From today yes,
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
dandywarhol
From today yes,
Not from today. From next April but they will only pay the 1.25% on any earnings. That's me fecked lol
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Not from today. From next April but they will only pay the 1.25% on any earnings. That's me fecked lol
Not for everyone, doesn't the tax free allowance factor in
People who earn under £9,564 don't have to pay National Insurance or the new levy.
Somebody on £20,000 a year will pay an extra £130, while someone on £50,000 will pay £505 more.
It will show as separate levy in the future called Health and Social Care Levy from 2023..
This happens in Germany and Italy where you get minimum free care , and pay extra 3% insurance to pay for your longer term social care
Triple lock suspended for one year
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: So it's National Insurance then
How it started v how it’s going
Attachment 4545
Attachment 4546
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
If all this money is going into social care do you think the poorly paid ......many on 9 quid an hour .....health care staff that work for these money making private companies will benefit ?
Better pay
Better work conditions
No chance
Social care should be brought back under local authority complete control
At present social services send out a job for these private care companies to bid for ....lowest bidder ......paying crap wages ....gets the work
The directors rake in the cash , the staff are treated like dirt
And if you think your loved ones are treated and cared for by well paid , motivated staff when in care homes .......think again
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
If all this money is going into social care do you think the poorly paid ......many on 9 quid an hour .....health care staff that work for these money making private companies will benefit ?
Better pay
Better work conditions
No chance
Social care should be brought back under local authority complete control
At present social services send out a job for these private care companies to bid for ....lowest bidder ......paying crap wages ....gets the work
The directors rake in the cash , the staff are treated like dirt
And if you think your loved ones are treated and cared for by well paid , motivated staff when in care homes .......think again
There is a bill thundering behind this to deal with how Social care is run and delivered so hold that thought as there is more to come .
I'd love to see Social Care provision dragged back into the NHS and away from the hands of private companies , to ensure the money provided is better delivered on behalf of the people and not for business owners of care homes who do make profit lets not forget they in turn pay their own people that inadequate low wage your pointing out
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
Read earlier that someone was complaining that theyd be paying an extra £1300 a year.
Must be tough for them living off a salary of £100k
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Re: So it's National Insurance then
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Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
With today's announcement, coupled with all the other increases since the bus, the health service will probably receive somewhere near or even more than the £350m per week but not because of BREXIT. The Kings Fund state an additional £60bn but it is impossible to disaggregate the figures with inflation etc.
The bus statement was misleading but I suppose it was intended to convey the point that the BREXIT saving would free up funds for a government to spend that amount on the NHS or anything else for that matter. We know how that has worked out.
Of course Labour might have a brilliant plan for social care but the interviews I have seen today avoids giving a straight answer. In essence there is no opposition plan meaning those who are asked to comment can only criticise.
As I have said before, at least we now have a plan which is far better than the arrangements which currently apply which forced me to sell under a power of attorney my parents house for Nursing Home fees. The new arrangements are far from perfect but at least the nettle has been grasped.