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Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...rdiff-28889840
Eastern Airport for the Paris route.
Not a major carrier but how many more nails in the coffin
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Absolute embarrassment of an airport….newquay airport has more flights I think….jeez. Another WAG legacy on ruining Wales at 20 mph or very slowly……
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Absolute embarrassment of an airport….newquay airport has more flights I think….jeez. Another WAG legacy on ruining Wales at 20 mph or very slowly……
If it wasn't for the Welsh government the airport would have closed down years ago.
They had actually turned it around but then Covid hit at the worst possible time and had a huge impact on the market.
there's a big chicken and egg effect in that you need passenger numbers to bring costs down attract airlines and you need flights to raise passenger numbers. Better carriers and more significant infrastructure spending will only be viable once passenger numbers are significantly raised, so its basically back to square one to try to gradually get them back up again.
All very unfortunate but it doesn't make sense to lay the blame at the welsh government's door.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
All very unfortunate but it doesn't make sense to lay the blame at the welsh government's door.
Of course it does. Everything that ever goes wrong is the fault of the Welsh Government to some people.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Of course it does. Everything that ever goes wrong is the fault of the Welsh Government to some people.
They either govern Wales or the don't in the immortal words of Sir Kier the buck stops at the top, well in this case that's the WAG, and their woeful lack of aspiration
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=Rjk;5499663]If it wasn't for the Welsh government the airport would have closed down years ago.
They had actually turned it around but then Covid hit at the worst possible time and had a huge impact on the market.
there's a big chicken and egg effect in that you need passenger numbers to bring costs down attract airlines and you need flights to raise passenger numbers. Better carriers and more significant infrastructure spending will only be viable once passenger numbers are significantly raised, so its basically back to square one to try to gradually get them back up again.
If Ryan Air and EasyJet had the same flight destinations going from Cardiff as they do Bristol, they would have literally millions more passengers using Cardiff Airport per year. Something has to be done about encouraging the budget airlines to fly to more destinations in Europe from our airport. I go to Lanzarote three times a year and occasionally Beziers. Every time I fly it means he hassle of flying from Bristol. It really grips my p*ss that I have to do that.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=Mr Soul '68;5499783]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
If Ryan Air and EasyJet had the same flight destinations going from Cardiff as they do Bristol, they would have literally millions more passengers using Cardiff Airport per year. Something has to be done about encouraging the budget airlines to fly to more destinations in Europe from our airport. I go to Lanzarote three times a year and occasionally Beziers. Every time I fly it means he hassle of flying from Bristol. It really grips my p*ss that I have to do that.
I don’t what the figures involved are but Bristol airport owners pay out large sums of money to these carriers in order to ensure they are the preferred regional airport
I doubt WAG have the nous or the balls to go head to head over this.
Anyway I don’t know any aircraft that can take off at 20 mph
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=Mr Soul '68;5499783]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
If it wasn't for the Welsh government the airport would have closed down years ago.
They had actually turned it around but then Covid hit at the worst possible time and had a huge impact on the market.
there's a big chicken and egg effect in that you need passenger numbers to bring costs down attract airlines and you need flights to raise passenger numbers. Better carriers and more significant infrastructure spending will only be viable once passenger numbers are significantly raised, so its basically back to square one to try to gradually get them back up again.
If Ryan Air and EasyJet had the same flight destinations going from Cardiff as they do Bristol, they would have literally millions more passengers using Cardiff Airport per year. Something has to be done about encouraging the budget airlines to fly to more destinations in Europe from our airport. I go to Lanzarote three times a year and occasionally Beziers. Every time I fly it means he hassle of flying from Bristol. It really grips my p*ss that I have to do that.
Agree, i love flying from Cardiff, hate Bristol, it's horrible to get there. I have no idea what incentives could be offered by the Welsh Goverment in order to bring low cot airlines to Cardiff. We had Wizz pull out a couple of years back and apparently (Completely anecdotal on my part) the numbers were good. I think that ryanair do a winter route to the canaries from Cardiff, or did until recently.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
They either govern Wales or the don't in the immortal words of Sir Kier the buck stops at the top, well in this case that's the WAG, and their woeful lack of aspiration
I'll bear that in mind whenever something goes wrong in England that it must be the Westminster government's fault. After all, they either govern, or they don't.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
They either govern Wales or the don't in the immortal words of Sir Kier the buck stops at the top, well in this case that's the WAG, and their woeful lack of aspiration
Ignore. Post repeated...
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
What's the parking like there these days?
I picked my daughter up from Bristol airport the other day - £6 for 10 minutes in their "Drop & Go" carpark. Bloody extortionate. They're not shy of fining people who accidentally end up in the wrong place either.
Lots of flights from there, but I can't stand the place.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Undercoverinwurzelland
What's the parking like there these days?
I picked my daughter up from Bristol airport the other day - £6 for 10 minutes in their "Drop & Go" carpark. Bloody extortionate. They're not shy of fining people who accidentally end up in the wrong place either.
Lots of flights from there, but I can't stand the place.
And the £9 each way clean air zone charge if your vehicle doesn’t comply. Bet Bristol Airport we’re ecstatic about that.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Ah remember the small eastern airways plane that they used to use for Cardiff to Newport (and onwards to Aberdeen at one point). Not as bad as the Anglesey plane but you wouldn’t have got me on either. When a planes so small you can’t take your hand luggage in the cabin with you it’s a no for me lol
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
They are a small airline, but it's another example of how badly run that place is.
No new M4, 20mph roads, trains half empty and delayed, Cardiff airport on its arse, far less cruise ships than other parts of the UK etc etc.
Cardiff Bus is alright in fairness, but transport infrastructure in Wales is an absolute joke.
Why would any international business that relies on infrastructure come here?!
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Bristol Airport cannot expand any further apparently
Cardiff has one of the biggest runways in the UK and has plenty of room for expansion
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
And the £9 each way clean air zone charge if your vehicle doesn’t comply. Bet Bristol Airport we’re ecstatic about that.
Proper socalist city
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Bristol Airport cannot expand any further apparently
Cardiff has one of the biggest runways in the UK and has plenty of room for expansion
So you’d think it might sort itself out one day under decent mgt? It’s not like Bristol airport is in a decent location either, no fast road to it, just a coach from Bristol city centre. It just needs a couple of decent cheap airlines like easy jet but I guess with their links to Bristol it’s not going to happen. A transatlantic route would be ideal save going east to fly west again, shorter flight, big runway. Just needs to right fare to negate going to Heathrow or Gatwick.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
This is where any linked-up thinking crumbles.
Scale baby, Scale. The fixed costs are amortised over fewer routes so the landing fee has to rise to cover the fixed costs. To reduce the landing fee's you need more flights, to get more flight you need to offer discounted rates to the airlines, at a loss to start. If you did decide to do that the airlines need to fill their planes. Geographically it knackered. Nothing south, few people live to the east of you, so its 20 miles north and west. West you have to travel through a bottleneck of biblical proportions and the alternative is non-existent public transport, which is an expensive train to Cardiff and a bus to the airport (same as most UK airports)
I remember Micheal O'Leary of Ryanair saying that CWL relied on the UK subsidy for keeping that very long runway in good condition as its the first transatlantic emergency landing strip
Its artificially been kept alive, it needed to move to severn junction region 20 years ago when that was first mooted
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
So you’d think it might sort itself out one day under decent mgt? It’s not like Bristol airport is in a decent location either, no fast road to it, just a coach from Bristol city centre. It just needs a couple of decent cheap airlines like easy jet but I guess with their links to Bristol it’s not going to happen. A transatlantic route would be ideal save going east to fly west again, shorter flight, big runway. Just needs to right fare to negate going to Heathrow or Gatwick.
Ryanair approach CWA before Bristol, but CWA were asking for their standard landing fees even though Ryanair said they would be dwarfed by what the airport would make over the years on concessions etc. Bristol saw this and gave them a very decent deal - the rest is history.
In terms of runway facilities, access, weather, Cardiff is far better placed than Bristol - which was used in WW2 to train pilots in foggy conditions, because it gets so much fog/mist.
And numbers ? Bristol just had OK to up to 12m from 10m, and yes, more than 50% of those will travel from this side of the bridge..
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
It's a shame it's a much nicer airport than Bristol, but has lost so much ground now I don't think it can ever catch up without some sort of UK grant.
Perhaps if Labour gets in, Gething can ask Starmer for a bit of help, I doubt it but maybe if they could build a big enough case for investment, Welsh Labour seems to prefer green measures over the economy, so he probably would prefer to close it down completely.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
It's a shame it's a much nicer airport than Bristol, but has lost so much ground now I don't think it can ever catch up without some sort of UK grant.
Perhaps if Labour gets in, Gething can ask Starmer for a bit of help, I doubt it but maybe if they could build a big enough case for investment, Welsh Labour seems to prefer green measures over the economy, so he probably would prefer to close it down completely.
Just picking up on one point, are you suggesting that green issues only matter as long as the economy is ok? I, for one, get pissed off with the continual kicking of the can for the next generation to sort out. Other countries in the world, more affluent countries than ours seem to combine growth and green measures. Why not us?
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Just picking up on one point, are you suggesting that green issues only matter as long as the economy is ok? I, for one, get pissed off with the continual kicking of the can for the next generation to sort out. Other countries in the world, more affluent countries than ours seem to combine growth and green measures. Why not us?
I don't like the idea of Wales making changes losing competitiveness and lowering our standard of living to England, let the Scots do that.
If Welsh Labour want to be green global leaders make it MASSIVE in their manifesto, and see how that goes down with the Welsh public, if any of them can be arsed to read what they are voting for.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Just picking up on one point, are you suggesting that green issues only matter as long as the economy is ok? I, for one, get pissed off with the continual kicking of the can for the next generation to sort out. Other countries in the world, more affluent countries than ours seem to combine growth and green measures. Why not us?
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...or-says-report
Banner headline like growth for green are fine however at last even Sir Keir knows that just a spend of 1% of our GDP cost approximately £26 billion ,we also know to build that growth on shore say like wind turbines , electric cars, solar power , Zero Emission Boiler , car batteries all of whcih needs manufacturing , manufacturing needs energy that ( now ) has to come form fossil, just for oil type groups fund Labour and around and around we go ,shall we go left or right or just u turn ..
I.d rip up the plan , dig our our fossil reserves , build up our own manufacturing base of for green future world products .
Will we nah , we offshore the manufacturing and hypocritically point the finger at cheap labour countries like India / China for polluting the world
USA go it right frack and dig for fossil , fix the current economy then go for an achievable reduction ,not follow some stupid Ed Miliband chest pounding net zero banner to just attract naive voters
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
I don't like the idea of Wales making changes losing competitiveness and lowering our standard of living to England, let the Scots do that.
If Welsh Labour want to be green global leaders make it MASSIVE in their manifesto, and see how that goes down with the Welsh public, if any of them can be arsed to read what they are voting for.
Wouldn't make any difference. Green issues would strengthen the vote of younger people. It is the future, regardless of whether you, or other Tories, like it or not.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...or-says-report
Banner headline like growth for green are fine however at last even Sir Keir knows that just a spend of 1% of our GDP cost approximately £26 billion ,we also know to build that growth on shore say like wind turbines , electric cars, solar power , Zero Emission Boiler , car batteries all of whcih needs manufacturing , manufacturing needs energy that
( now ) has to come form fossil, just for oil type groups fund Labour and around and around we go ,shall we go left or right or just u turn ..
I.d rip up the plan , dig our our fossil reserves , build up our own manufacturing base of for green future world products .
Will we nah , we offshore the manufacturing and hypocritically point the finger at cheap labour countries like India / China for polluting the world
USA go it right frack and dig for fossil , fix the current economy then go for an achievable reduction ,not follow some stupid Ed Miliband chest pounding net zero banner to just attract naive voters
Thought you were in favour of Thatcher closing the mines?
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Wouldn't make any difference. Green issues would strengthen the vote of younger people. It is the future, regardless of whether you, or other Tories, like it or not.
I'm not sure it is, unless the changes are managed well. Green parties generally struggling across Europe at the moment. The transition has to be socially sustainable to succeed, and I think a lot on the green-left, for that is what much of the green movement has morphed into, don't really get that.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I'm not sure it is, unless the changes are managed well. Green parties generally struggling across Europe at the moment. The transition has to be socially sustainable to succeed, and I think a lot on the green-left, for that is what much of the green movement has morphed into, don't really get that.
Exactly, it's money and opportunities they want, not green status and more poverty.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=Mr Soul '68;5499783]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
If it wasn't for the Welsh government the airport would have closed down years ago.
They had actually turned it around but then Covid hit at the worst possible time and had a huge impact on the market.
there's a big chicken and egg effect in that you need passenger numbers to bring costs down attract airlines and you need flights to raise passenger numbers. Better carriers and more significant infrastructure spending will only be viable once passenger numbers are significantly raised, so its basically back to square one to try to gradually get them back up again.
If Ryan Air and EasyJet had the same flight destinations going from Cardiff as they do Bristol, they would have literally millions more passengers using Cardiff Airport per year. Something has to be done about encouraging the budget airlines to fly to more destinations in Europe from our airport. I go to Lanzarote three times a year and occasionally Beziers. Every time I fly it means he hassle of flying from Bristol. It really grips my p*ss that I have to do that.
Ryanair and easyJet only operate out of Bristol not Cardiff because Bristol has so many more passengers, so costs are spread over a larger number of flights and they can offer cheaper flights.
if Cardiff became more cost effective than Bristol then they'd move at the drop of a hat, however I don't think that can just be achieved by lowering fees.
they need to grow the airport first to get a critical mass of passengers, then they will be able to entice these airlines back.
this is what they were doing before COVID struck.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Exactly, it's money and opportunities they want, not green status and more poverty.
I think it's both, and that's fair enough. The problem is that's basically impossible. People have been sold a lie and choices have to be made if they want radical green changes.
It's why so many environmental activists are the classic middle class types; they don't need to worry about housing affordability and the heating bills so much.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Bristol Airport cannot expand any further apparently
Cardiff has one of the biggest runways in the UK and has plenty of room for expansion
It doesn’t matter if the carrier doesn’t want to fly from here.
They’ll go to Exeter or Southampton for example
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
llan bluebird
This is where any linked-up thinking crumbles.
Scale baby, Scale. The fixed costs are amortised over fewer routes so the landing fee has to rise to cover the fixed costs. To reduce the landing fee's you need more flights, to get more flight you need to offer discounted rates to the airlines, at a loss to start. If you did decide to do that the airlines need to fill their planes. Geographically it knackered. Nothing south, few people live to the east of you, so its 20 miles north and west. West you have to travel through a bottleneck of biblical proportions and the alternative is non-existent public transport, which is an expensive train to Cardiff and a bus to the airport (same as most UK airports)
I remember Micheal O'Leary of Ryanair saying that CWL relied on the UK subsidy for keeping that very long runway in good condition as its the first transatlantic emergency landing strip
Its artificially been kept alive, it needed to move to severn junction region 20 years ago when that was first mooted
The runway at 2392 metres is relatively short albeit still longer than Bristol’s.
I’d take anything O’Leary says with a pinch of salt , there is no subsidy to maintain the runway.
Agree with what you say about location which is Cardiff’s biggest weakness together with a catchment area which is economically in decline resulting in a local population having less propensity to fly.
Until that changes it will struggle to match the halcyon days of 2002-2004 where pax numbers were over 2m.
Bristol suffers the same poor infrastructure problems as Cardiff , but its well placed to serve a larger and wealthier catchment area , including annoyingly large parts of SE Wales.
The one possible bright spot for Cardiff is that Bristol is now pretty much full , this summer there will be 36 based aircraft between the based airlines there and they simply do not have the stand capacity for any further expansion.
If air travel continues to bounce back strongly as it has since the pandemic then airlines may start to look at Cardiff for potential overspill traffic.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=Rjk;5499901]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
Ryanair and easyJet only operate out of Bristol not Cardiff because Bristol has so many more passengers, so costs are spread over a larger number of flights and they can offer cheaper flights.
if Cardiff became more cost effective than Bristol then they'd move at the drop of a hat, however I don't think that can just be achieved by lowering fees.
they need to grow the airport first to get a critical mass of passengers, then they will be able to entice these airlines back.
this is what they were doing before COVID struck.
You seem to know your stuff on this, I'll use it every time as long as it's not more than £120 more for two flights/holidays, it is a chicken and an egg, I think they need to discount charges for one airline and one-holiday firm like tui to get things moving.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
Ryanair approach CWA before Bristol, but CWA were asking for their standard landing fees even though Ryanair said they would be dwarfed by what the airport would make over the years on concessions etc. Bristol saw this and gave them a very decent deal - the rest is history.
In terms of runway facilities, access, weather, Cardiff is far better placed than Bristol - which was used in WW2 to train pilots in foggy conditions, because it gets so much fog/mist.
And numbers ? Bristol just had OK to up to 12m from 10m, and yes, more than 50% of those will travel from this side of the bridge..
Yep that sounds about right, they get 10 million already? Jeez I think we were close pre covid too, maybe half, now it’s not even comparable. So short sighted of whoever was in charge not to give Ryan air or easy jet good terms….whats that old saying about speculate to accumulate? No the gulf is so huge nothing will work here. They won’t switch here as they are happy there.
Might aswell just shut it down and write off another few 100 million
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=Tuerto;5499787]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
Agree, i love flying from Cardiff, hate Bristol, it's horrible to get there. I have no idea what incentives could be offered by the Welsh Goverment in order to bring low cot airlines to Cardiff. We had Wizz pull out a couple of years back and apparently (Completely anecdotal on my part) the numbers were good. I think that ryanair do a winter route to the canaries from Cardiff, or did until recently.
It's easy to get to Bristol Airport from Cardiff. In fact it's not much longer than getting to Cardiif airport anyway, and always much cheaper flights
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Yep that sounds about right, they get 10 million already? Jeez I think we were close pre covid too, maybe half, now it’s not even comparable. So short sighted of whoever was in charge not to give Ryan air or easy jet good terms….whats that old saying about speculate to accumulate? No the gulf is so huge nothing will work here. They won’t switch here as they are happy there.
Might aswell just shut it down and write off another few 100 million
Cardiff have never had that many, they had around 2 million in 2007, which dropped to half that before the Welsh government took over, they were on track to be more than 2 million by now if it hasn't been for COVID, but that dropped it to about 200k , last I heard it was up to around 800k
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=Talksport;5500003]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
It's easy to get to Bristol Airport from Cardiff. In fact it's not much longer than getting to Cardiif airport anyway, and always much cheaper flights
Firstly, I don't live in Cardiff. Secondly, it was much quicker for me to get to Cardiff airport when I lived in Cardiff than get to Bristol airport. Much much quicker! I'd much rather pay slightly more for my flights and go for Cardiff airport, than book cheaper flights and fly from Bristol
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=North Cardiff Blue;5499926]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
You seem to know your stuff on this, I'll use it every time as long as it's not more than £120 more for two flights/holidays, it is a chicken and an egg, I think they need to discount charges for one airline and one-holiday firm like tui to get things moving.
yeah I'd much rather fly from Cardiff if I can. about £100 more and I'll still consider it .
it used to be a good option for going to the states via Dublin, but the connecting flights don't really work as well any more, so that's better via Bristol as well now
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
[QUOTE=Mr Soul '68;5500011]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Talksport
Firstly, I don't live in Cardiff. Secondly, it was much quicker for me to get to Cardiff airport when I lived in Cardiff than get to Bristol airport. Much much quicker! I'd much rather pay slightly more for my flights and go for Cardiff airport, than book cheaper flights and fly from Bristol
Hmmm, i'm being quoted yet it's not my post. Anyway, completely agree with you. I pay that little bit more to fly from Cardiff. Much more relaxed.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Thought you were in favour of Thatcher closing the mines?
There are other forms of fossil fuels she only finished off what Harold Wilson had done ,what was the count now
.
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Re: Another airline pulls out of Cardiff Airport
Quote:
Originally Posted by
light up the darkness
It doesn’t matter if the carrier doesn’t want to fly from here.
They’ll go to Exeter or Southampton for example
Exeter isn't exactly a thriving aviation hub.