-
Welsh Language In Trouble
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...Oma?li=BBoPWjQ
The Arts Council of Wales is “systemically racist”, according to a report it commissioned itself, which says Welsh language requirements exclude minorities.*
The publicly funded body commissioned £51,000 worth of research which branded the organisation’s policies “racist”, along with those of National Museums Wales, a conclusion both bodies have accepted.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
They are/were in trouble but have now recognised and accepted need to change.
Others haven't realised the trouble they're in.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
I sent both of my girls to Welsh school against my parents voiced concerns (both staunch catholic’s- I’m lapsed) and they are fluent to which I am so proud
My daughter is having her first baby in a few months and has already said her son will definitely be going to Welsh school
The Welsh schools locally are over subscribed which is great news
As for the racist claims
Both my girls years had many black/Asian/African kids in their respective school years
My daughter who is black played Mary two years running in the Christmas nativity play in primary 😀😀👍
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sunnysideup
I sent both of my girls to Welsh school against my parents voiced concerns (both staunch catholic’s- I’m lapsed) and they are fluent to which I am so proud
My daughter is having her first baby in a few months and has already said her son will definitely be going to Welsh school
The Welsh schools locally are over subscribed which is great news
As for the racist claims
Both my girls years had many black/Asian/African kids in their respective school years
My daughter who is black played Mary two years running in the Christmas nativity play in primary
I would think that in reality Mary was probably closer to 'black' than 'white' but I can't see the significance of your parents being catholic in relation to a welsh speking school. It alludes me.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
I would think that in reality Mary was probably closer to 'black' than 'white' but I can't see the significance of your parents being catholic in relation to a welsh speking school. It alludes me.
Maybe his patents wanted his kids to go to a Catholic school, that's how i read it.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Well was that £51k good value for the tax payer?
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Maybe his patents wanted his kids to go to a Catholic school, that's how i read it.
Ah true. I didnt look at it that way. :thumbup:
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Well was that £51k good value for the tax payer?
Desperate for a bite
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Desperate for a bite
He wants to get on the green bins thread, that's where it's happening.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
If you actually read the report, most of the findings relate to areas other than Welsh language requirements.
Some of the report recommendations make sense, some seem utterly bonkers to me.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
My feelings about the Welsh language are well known and unpopular with plastic Taffs and idiots who’ve learned it in classes run by trendy tossers.
However , of course it’s not racist and if any silly bastard doesn’t like it , tough shit.
Frankly it’s insufficient as a means of expressing yourself properly and redundant in the modern world , but it’s what my older relatives spoke and it’s our culture.
Is my culture and an organisation which wants to preserve it offensive to stupid people?
Guess how much I give a toss. For better or worse it’s true.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
As an English speaking Welsh man I am ashamed that Welsh people are still thinking Welsh is a dead language not worth saving.
My 6 year old grandson is in the Welsh stream at junior school and I am very proud of his ability to speak Welsh, albeit limited at the moment. Hopefully He will benefit in many ways in the years to come.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
He wants to get on the green bins thread, that's where it's happening.
Why did you post that? Now I so want to look on the green bins thread. *be strong Citizen*
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Former Labour leader
As an English speaking Welsh man I am ashamed that Welsh people are still thinking Welsh is a dead language not worth saving.
My 6 year old grandson is in the Welsh stream at junior school and I am very proud of his ability to speak Welsh, albeit limited at the moment. Hopefully He will benefit in many ways in the years to come.
No, you’re alright mate, honestly.
No saving or sympathy required. I speak on behalf of many generations of quite hard and practical men who spoke WELSH as a mother tongue long before loads of incomers came to the south east and their grandchildren started learning this new version where you add “io”, at the end of English words and make up stupid spellings like Ambwlans.
The old people knew very well that it was an old language mainly for farming talk and they wanted their kids to learn modern languages and be able to travel and succeed in the wider world.
Yes it’s good that some people preserve it but it’s a museum piece and a nice bit of culture not an alternative to English or other major languages in which we can communicate with millions.
The real Welsh people are not victims who need protection from the bad English racists. Trust me they’ll look out for themselves and no doubt there’ll be a few who might fall back on a bit of Welsh between themselves, but whilst I DO appreciate your nice intent there, it’s really not needed thanks.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Is there actually any real worth in learning the welsh language anymore guys?
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
Why did you post that? Now I so want to look on the green bins thread. *be strong Citizen*
The rebrand from the traditional dustbin nearly finished me......Tan out:hehe:
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nugent
Is there actually any real worth in learning the welsh language anymore guys?
You’d understand the substitutions down the City before anybody else:shrug:
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
I would think that in reality Mary was probably closer to 'black' than 'white' but I can't see the significance of your parents being catholic in relation to a welsh speking school. It alludes me.
The main bunch of friends that I have in Cardiff all went to the same Catholic schools, which didn't teach Welsh at all. I have no idea if this most minimal sample is representive in any way (most probably not) but one of them has learned Welsh intensively during Lockdown and without the dribs and drabs that some us remember from learning it in infants, junior and secondary schools.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nugent
Is there actually any real worth in learning the welsh language anymore guys?
Yeah probably but only in the same way as Latin or Occitan. Stupid affectation to try and use it as a lingua Franca.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
The main bunch of friends that I have in Cardiff all went to the same Catholic schools, which didn't teach Welsh at all. I have no idea if this most minimal sample is representive in any way (most probably not) but one of them has learned Welsh intensively during Lockdown and without the dribs and drabs that some us remember from learning it in infants, junior and secondary schools.
Same here, we were more likely to sing ‘Hail Glorious St Patrick, Dear Saint Of Our Isle’ than Sospan Fach. 1960s Catholic education had no place for Welshness, plenty of Emerald Isle influence though, as was home life.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
My experience of being educated through a Catholic system wasn’t good
You are taught through repetition
Constantly reciting prayers in many of the assemblies each day with non compliance resulting in violence - we were assaulted with the cane from the headmaster for not attending church and suffered beatings from “Dai the Dap” from the Deputy head Mr Connors
How people say school years were the best years is laughable
Welsh education all the way 👍
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
My feelings about the Welsh language are well known and unpopular with plastic Taffs and idiots who’ve learned it in classes run by trendy tossers.
However , of course it’s not racist and if any silly bastard doesn’t like it , tough shit.
Frankly it’s insufficient as a means of expressing yourself properly and redundant in the modern world , but it’s what my older relatives spoke and it’s our culture.
Is my culture and an organisation which wants to preserve it offensive to stupid people?
Guess how much I give a toss. For better or worse it’s true.
Why is someone a 'plastic Taff' f they decide to learn Welsh? For someone who has a superior intellect (in your opinion) you come out with some ludicrous generalisations.
By the way, considering the fact that you are such a free thinker did you not question the nonsense peddled by your Grammar School teacher regarding language that is widely accepted as being archaic rather than the correct version they claimed it to be?
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
I’m not pro Welsh Language by any stretch but what a load of rubbish
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nugent
Is there actually any real worth in learning the welsh language anymore guys?
Nope. But there’s loads of things in the world that are pointless but still worth doing
Footballs a easy one. Is there a point of having a Welsh football team when there’s teams over the bridge to support
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Same here, we were more likely to sing ‘Hail Glorious St Patrick, Dear Saint Of Our Isle’ than Sospan Fach. 1960s Catholic education had no place for Welshness, plenty of Emerald Isle influence though, as was home life.
It was a bit like that in the eighties. Absolutely no Welsh in my Catholic school. French and Spanish. It's changed now though, and Catholic schools have been teaching Welsh for a long time.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
I grew up speaking the lingo and save university and a couple of college courses had all my education in it as well.
Always felt it vaguely bemusing it ruffled so many people’s feathers, particularly Welsh people of a certain age and perspective. I’d say from my experience I don’t think I’ve met many under the age of 30-40 now that aren’t either positive or just agnostic about the language in Wales. I think it’s becoming increasingly normalised.
I’m a big advocate of language acquisition though and a lover of languages generally having learned (well, learning still) another two to varying degrees of success. I wish we pushed this more in British schools more broadly for languages to be taught consistently from a really young age, regardless of what that second language is. When the time comes and I have a child, and should I still be living in London, I’d seriously consider a school that does this even if I or my partner don’t speak the language.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nugent
Is there actually any real worth in learning the welsh language anymore guys?
I would say 'yes'. Learning a language is not only an interesting pursuit in itself for many people but it's a way of tapping into a country's culture. Expressions, literature and the arts that use language all give us a greater understanding of a culture.
Can anyone really understand France and its culture profoundly without knowing French and being able to read the language?
Language and culture are deeply entwined and, in my opinion, not knowing the language of a country is not conducive to knowing the culture on a deep level.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...Oma?li=BBoPWjQ
The Arts Council of Wales is “systemically racist”, according to a report it commissioned itself, which says Welsh language requirements exclude minorities.*
The publicly funded body commissioned £51,000 worth of research which branded the organisation’s policies “racist”, along with those of National Museums Wales, a conclusion both bodies have accepted.
coc-oen
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
I would say 'yes'. Learning a language is not only an interesting pursuit in itself for many people but it's a way of tapping into a country's culture. Expressions, literature and the arts that use language all give us a greater understanding of a culture.
Can anyone really understand France and its culture profoundly without knowing French and being able to read the language?
Language and culture are deeply entwined and, in my opinion, not knowing the language of a country is not conducive to knowing the culture on a deep level.
Couldn't agree more. Really well put. Can I add that that learning a second language can help the brain recover from trauma and slow down or even prevent the onset of dementia. Damaged brains from incurable brain diseases like Multiple Sclerosis can slow down and re-route damaged neurological pathways. A real-life example is me. In 2017 I had 17 brain lesions and one spinal lesion resulting in chronic impairment of my central nervous system (CNS). Learning Greek has helped stop further 'active' lesions in a way that no other treatment has been able to. All other treatments have stopped because they were too dangerous. Learning a language is not a 'cure' (my MS is incurable) but it's slowing down nerve damage (measured by 6 monthly 90min MRIs). I would recommend anyone and everyone learn a second or third language. My wife (who is English) has been learning Welsh for five years now.
Here's a paper explaining one study.
There's a game called Learn Japanese To Survive! Hiragana Battle - it's a language educational RPG game. It's a pretty cool game design. Languages can absolutely improve your life.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
Couldn't agree more. Really well put. Can I add that that learning a second language can help the brain recover from trauma and slow down or even prevent the onset of dementia. Damaged brains from incurable brain diseases like Multiple Sclerosis can slow down and re-route damaged neurological pathways. A real-life example is me. In 2017 I had 17 brain lesions and one spinal lesion resulting in chronic impairment of my central nervous system (CNS). Learning Greek has helped stop further 'active' lesions in a way that no other treatment has been able to. All other treatments have stopped because they were too dangerous. Learning a language is not a 'cure' (my MS is incurable) but it's slowing down nerve damage (measured by 6 monthly 90min MRIs). I would recommend anyone and everyone learn a second or third language. My wife (who is English) has been learning Welsh for five years now.
Here's a paper explaining one study.
There's a game called
Learn Japanese To Survive! Hiragana Battle - it's a language educational RPG game. It's a pretty cool game design. Languages can absolutely improve your life.
Thanks for sharing your story CN! 👍
Why Greek out of interest?
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kind of Blue
I grew up speaking the lingo and save university and a couple of college courses had all my education in it as well.
Always felt it vaguely bemusing it ruffled so many people’s feathers, particularly Welsh people of a certain age and perspective. I’d say from my experience I don’t think I’ve met many under the age of 30-40 now that aren’t either positive or just agnostic about the language in Wales. I think it’s becoming increasingly normalised.
I’m a big advocate of language acquisition though and a lover of languages generally having learned (well, learning still) another two to varying degrees of success. I wish we pushed this more in British schools more broadly for languages to be taught consistently from a really young age, regardless of what that second language is. When the time comes and I have a child, and should I still be living in London, I’d seriously consider a school that does this even if I or my partner don’t speak the language.
Great post! :thumbup:
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Mars and Ronnie have little to add to society. They are a waste of resources.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kind of Blue
I grew up speaking the lingo and save university and a couple of college courses had all my education in it as well.
Always felt it vaguely bemusing it ruffled so many people’s feathers, particularly Welsh people of a certain age and perspective. I’d say from my experience I don’t think I’ve met many under the age of 30-40 now that aren’t either positive or just agnostic about the language in Wales. I think it’s becoming increasingly normalised.
I’m a big advocate of language acquisition though and a lover of languages generally having learned (well, learning still) another two to varying degrees of success. I wish we pushed this more in British schools more broadly for languages to be taught consistently from a really young age, regardless of what that second language is. When the time comes and I have a child, and should I still be living in London, I’d seriously consider a school that does this even if I or my partner don’t speak the language.
I do understand why people have gripes about the additional costs of a second language. The public bodies must spend a fortune on translation, additional publications etc.
As for the actual language though, why people beat on our culture is stupid. They’d soon complain if everything was totally homogenised. I bet they’d all be teeth gnashing if we had god save the queen as the national anthem though
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kind of Blue
Thanks for sharing your story CN! 👍
Why Greek out of interest?
You're welcome. Must have just cross-posted because I read your thoughts just after I'd posted mine. Kindred spirits! And I've just got to say, you have one of the coolest avatars. Bloody love it!
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kind of Blue
Thanks for sharing your story CN!
Why Greek out of interest?
Sorry, forgot to answer your question - I'm one-quarter Greek Cypriot and have been tracing long-lost family in Athens and Cyprus as well as I have a huge interest in Greek history and have followed AC Omonia (because of my Grandfather's affiliation with the club and Nicosia).
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
The rebrand from the traditional dustbin nearly finished me......Tan out:hehe:
I've stayed away. Stay strong Mr P. I have faith in you! :hehe:
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No, you’re alright mate, honestly.
No saving or sympathy required. I speak on behalf of many generations of quite hard and practical men who spoke WELSH as a mother tongue long before loads of incomers came to the south east and their grandchildren started learning this new version where you add “io”, at the end of English words and make up stupid spellings like Ambwlans.
.
Did they ask you to?
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
No, you’re alright mate, honestly.
No saving or sympathy required. I speak on behalf of many generations of quite hard and practical men who spoke WELSH as a mother tongue long before loads of incomers came to the south east and their grandchildren started learning this new version where you add “io”, at the end of English words and make up stupid spellings like Ambwlans.
The old people knew very well that it was an old language mainly for farming talk and they wanted their kids to learn modern languages and be able to travel and succeed in the wider world.
Yes it’s good that some people preserve it but it’s a museum piece and a nice bit of culture not an alternative to English or other major languages in which we can communicate with millions.
The real Welsh people are not victims who need protection from the bad English racists. Trust me they’ll look out for themselves and no doubt there’ll be a few who might fall back on a bit of Welsh between themselves, but whilst I DO appreciate your nice intent there, it’s really not needed thanks.
Re: your comment about the word 'Ambulance'
The English word came from Latin and all European languages have borrowed, copied and modified words from other languages, English probably being the most significant example. Your personal prejudices seem to prompt you to write the most ridiculous nonsense regarding language in general.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
Couldn't agree more. Really well put. Can I add that that learning a second language can help the brain recover from trauma and slow down or even prevent the onset of dementia. Damaged brains from incurable brain diseases like Multiple Sclerosis can slow down and re-route damaged neurological pathways. A real-life example is me. In 2017 I had 17 brain lesions and one spinal lesion resulting in chronic impairment of my central nervous system (CNS). Learning Greek has helped stop further 'active' lesions in a way that no other treatment has been able to. All other treatments have stopped because they were too dangerous. Learning a language is not a 'cure' (my MS is incurable) but it's slowing down nerve damage (measured by 6 monthly 90min MRIs). I would recommend anyone and everyone learn a second or third language. My wife (who is English) has been learning Welsh for five years now.
Here's a paper explaining one study.
There's a game called
Learn Japanese To Survive! Hiragana Battle - it's a language educational RPG game. It's a pretty cool game design. Languages can absolutely improve your life.
That is very cool!
Glad to hear that it helps you.
-
Re: Welsh Language In Trouble
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nugent
Is there actually any real worth in learning the welsh language anymore guys?
Because we're Welsh?