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It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
I notice that now the shit hits the fan with the racism at Yorkshire county cricket, Wales are being referenced quite a lot on the news today it's no longer England it's England and Wales or ECB for short. surely it's time for our own board.:wales:
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
I notice that now the shit hits the fan with the racism at Yorkshire county cricket, Wales are being referenced quite a lot on the news today it's no longer England it's England and Wales or ECB for short. surely it's time for our own board.:wales:
Seeing as Glamorgan has 2 allegations of racism put its way in 2005 and 2012, i think its fair to look at the entire cricketing landscape as a whole.
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/ne...sm-allegations
As mentioned today, cricket is not like football and counties cannot survive without ECB support. So to walk away from that would be catastrophic for cricket in Wales.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
qccfc
Seeing as Glamorgan has 2 allegations of racism put its way in 2005 and 2012, i think its fair to look at the entire cricketing landscape as a whole.
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/ne...sm-allegations
As mentioned today, cricket is not like football and counties cannot survive without ECB support. So to walk away from that would be catastrophic for cricket in Wales.
I like Cricket, but mainly in a "few beers in the sun at Sophia Gardens" kinda way. Generally speaking, is the British Asian community well represented in county / t20 matches and at coaching levels etc?
I really don't know, and I know it's not relevant to this case, I just wondered.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
I notice that now the shit hits the fan with the racism at Yorkshire county cricket, Wales are being referenced quite a lot on the news today it's no longer England it's England and Wales or ECB for short. surely it's time for our own board.:wales:
I don't know (or care much) about a Wales Cricket Board. Plenty seem happy about the invisible and silent 'Wales' small print in the England & Wales Cricket Board letterhead. Along with the 3 lions, GSTQ, the cross of St George, 'Engerlund' chants, 'the ECB' and all the rest.
But I do agree with your point about the media suddenly remembering the "Wales' bit when there is bad news to report.
It was always a bit of a joke that Andy Murray was British when winning, but Scottish when losing - but it was true.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I like Cricket, but mainly in a "few beers in the sun at Sophia Gardens" kinda way. Generally speaking, is the British Asian community well represented in county / t20 matches and at coaching levels etc?
I really don't know, and I know it's not relevant to this case, I just wondered.
Is the British Asian community represented well in any mainstream British Sport. Rugby/Football/Cricket. I would say no.
What i would argue is you see more British Asians playing top class Cricket in the UK than you do the other sports.
In the local area and leagues you have decent Asian participation, and some Asian focused teams. What Rafiq said today is that the problem is not in the grassroots, and with opportunities to play, because these exist. Rafiq stated the problem is in the dressing room, with particular emphasis on the professional environment.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
qccfc
Seeing as Glamorgan has 2 allegations of racism put its way in 2005 and 2012, i think its fair to look at the entire cricketing landscape as a whole.
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/ne...sm-allegations
As mentioned today, cricket is not like football and counties cannot survive without ECB support. So to walk away from that would be catastrophic for cricket in Wales.
Probably shows my ignorance (maybe not the right phrase to use in the circumstances) but I was really surprised to see Kieran Carlson referred to as a British/Asian cricketer in that link.
Watched Azeem Rafiq’s testimony to the Parliamentary Committee today and he was very impressive.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I like Cricket, but mainly in a "few beers in the sun at Sophia Gardens" kinda way. Generally speaking, is the British Asian community well represented in county / t20 matches and at coaching levels etc?
I really don't know, and I know it's not relevant to this case, I just wondered.
I can’t remember exact figures, but it’s something like 30 per cent of club cricketers in the UK are of Asian descent and that figure drops to 3 per cent when it comes to first class cricket. As for coaches, I would be surprised if there were no Asian descent coaches in the county game, but I’m not aware of any.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I can’t remember exact figures, but it’s something like 30 per cent of club cricketers in the UK are of Asian descent and that figure drops to 3 per cent when it comes to first class cricket. As for coaches, I would be surprised if there were no Asian descent coaches in the county game, but I’m not aware of any.
That's interesting to know, cheers
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I don't know (or care much) about a Wales Cricket Board. Plenty seem happy about the invisible and silent 'Wales' small print in the England & Wales Cricket Board letterhead. Along with the 3 lions, GSTQ, the cross of St George, 'Engerlund' chants, 'the ECB' and all the rest.
Not forgetting Jerusalem of course :facepalm:
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Gary Ballance seems a nice chap.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
You wonder if football the alleged bad boy of sport has a better disciplines in dealing with racism within the club structures and its controlling bodies unlike Cricket which is very much like a closed shop by County??
I am shocked at these reports , as many good Asian and black cricketers have seen success in the British game.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
It was always a bit of a joke that Andy Murray was British when winning, but Scottish when losing - but it was true.
Was it? Genuine question. I doubt one exists but if it does if like to see the analysis that supports that.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Don’t think we’ll be seeing David ‘Bumble’ Lloyd on Sky Sports Cricket again.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
Optimistic Nick
Was it? Genuine question. I doubt one exists but if it does if like to see the analysis that supports that.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...itish-22707443
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Only fair to add that the BBC have produced some research to show that the BBC don't do this. Totally independent of course!
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
wonder why he returned to the county
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
poc
wonder why he returned to the county
I think reading between the lines, what happened is that there was racial terms used as 'banter' and probably accepted as such (rightly or wrongly) and then relationships broke down and looking back on it, it's being used (rightly or wrongly) in the case of grievance, particularly it seems in relation to issues regarding his stillborn child. Azeeem Rafiq was seemingly treated badly in that situation and he is questioning whether his race played a part in that.
I've no doubt racist abuse exists, openly and hidden, and I also have no doubt it can be used as banter in both directions. The lesson here is to never use it as banter and, obviously, to treat people well and with the upmost compassion when difficult personal circumstances occur.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
poc
wonder why he returned to the county
If you listen to his full interview he explains his change in mindset.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
I was quite sceptical of this at the start, as judging by his twitter Rafiq himself seems like quite a knob. A lot of deleted tweets that are verging on personal threats. He was also a bloody awful player, but one who was very highly regarded by Yorkshire and given chance after chance.
Seeing some of what has come out has changed my outlook a lot mind. If even half of these things are true then there is a problem within cricket.
I would be very interested if the drug test allegation is repeated outside of parliamentary privilege. I just don't understand how it would be possible to hush it up for a bloke who was around the England side. If that does turn out to be true, then Yorkshire cricket club will be facing a whole world of pain and quite rightly so. If it turns out to be malicious then Rafiqs other testimony will need to be looked at aswell.
Interestingly, just read his cricinfo stats and profile. He was the ineligible player that meant Yorkshire lost their t20 quarter finals place in 2008. If I remember rightly it was Glamorgan who benefited from that decision.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chrisp_1927
I was quite sceptical of this at the start, as judging by his twitter Rafiq himself seems like quite a knob. A lot of deleted tweets that are verging on personal threats. He was also a bloody awful player, but one who was very highly regarded by Yorkshire and given chance after chance.
Seeing some of what has come out has changed my outlook a lot mind. If even half of these things are true then there is a problem within cricket.
I would be very interested if the drug test allegation is repeated outside of parliamentary privilege. I just don't understand how it would be possible to hush it up for a bloke who was around the England side. If that does turn out to be true, then Yorkshire cricket club will be facing a whole world of pain and quite rightly so. If it turns out to be malicious then Rafiqs other testimony will need to be looked at aswell.
Interestingly, just read his cricinfo stats and profile. He was the ineligible player that meant Yorkshire lost their t20 quarter finals place in 2008. If I remember rightly it was Glamorgan who benefited from that decision.
Sorry, I've only loosely followed this whole story, but what is the drug test issue?
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Sorry, I've only loosely followed this whole story, but what is the drug test issue?
Cricketers are subject to random hair sample tests and he alleges Yorkshire allowed Ballance to miss tests to cover recreational drug and aolchohol use and covered a failed test with missing citing health issues.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I don't know (or care much) about a Wales Cricket Board. Plenty seem happy about the invisible and silent 'Wales' small print in the England & Wales Cricket Board letterhead. Along with the 3 lions, GSTQ, the cross of St George, 'Engerlund' chants, 'the ECB' and all the rest.
But I do agree with your point about the media suddenly remembering the "Wales' bit when there is bad news to report.
It was always a bit of a joke that Andy Murray was British when winning, but Scottish when losing - but it was true.
That sort of biased reporting has been going on for decades.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
There's a really good piece by Andy Bull today which has some horrific examples of what he endured.
These really are hard to read - here's an extract:
'What was it Steve Brine MP said on Tuesday, the moment after Azeem Rafiq had just finished speaking about how he didn’t want his own son to go anywhere near cricket? “In conclusion then, by how many will we win the Ashes?” Thanks for getting back to what’s important, Steve, Rafiq’s testimony really needed the light relief.
Which part got you hardest? The moment a teammate pinned him down and forced him to drink red wine while everyone else stayed silent? The one when the beloved old fast bowler called him “Raffa the Kaffir” and “elephant washer”? The bit where a venerated England captain bluntly contradicted his testimony, supported by two of Rafiq’s teammates, that he told him “there’s too many of you lot”? Or was it when he argued that the reason his teammates can’t recall racist behaviour at Yorkshire was because it was so normal that it became forgettable? Or when he said he felt the players’ union called the police on him just so they would have proof they’d tried to do something useful if he killed himself?
That horror you’re feeling, the chill, the nausea, the hurt, all that unease and discomfort, don’t turn away from it. It’s necessary. Without it, nothing will change.'
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
The whole thing sickens me.
Horrible racist bullying culture.
At least Hoggard and Lloyd have apologised bu those comments. I mean seriously WTF!!
Ballance I really wish that tw@t had shared a dressing room with Curtly Ambrose.
Makes you wonder with Ollie Robinsons historic tweets how widespread this was. Was he in a culture where it was just considered normal.
I love cricket but this just makes me consider turning my back on it.
2005 one of the greatest series. Dont want to watch any more replays or highlights.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
The whole thing sickens me.
Horrible racist bullying culture.
At least Hoggard and Lloyd have apologised bu those comments. I mean seriously WTF!!
Ballance I really wish that tw@t had shared a dressing room with Curtly Ambrose.
Makes you wonder with Ollie Robinsons historic tweets how widespread this was. Was he in a culture where it was just considered normal.
I love cricket but this just makes me consider turning my back on it.
2005 one of the greatest series. Dont want to watch any more replays or highlights.
You've summed up how I feel about the game now too. It's going to take a monumental effort to sort this out and I believe it has to be transparent. It's actually heartbreaking.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I think reading between the lines, what happened is that there was racial terms used as 'banter' and probably accepted as such (rightly or wrongly) and then relationships broke down and looking back on it, it's being used (rightly or wrongly) in the case of grievance, particularly it seems in relation to issues regarding his stillborn child. Azeeem Rafiq was seemingly treated badly in that situation and he is questioning whether his race played a part in that.
I've no doubt racist abuse exists, openly and hidden, and I also have no doubt it can be used as banter in both directions. The lesson here is to never use it as banter and, obviously, to treat people well and with the upmost compassion when difficult personal circumstances occur.
Or one party were using it as banter and the other half had to accept it as "banter" because if how the culture was. That's how bullying works.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Or one party were using it as banter and the other half had to accept it as "banter" because if how the culture was. That's how bullying works.
Exactly. I now see the word banter as an excuse to hide behind. I hate the word these days.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118
More banter , Azeem Rafiq has apologised and said he is "deeply ashamed" for using anti-Semitic language in messages from 2011.
The 30-year-old said he had "absolutely no excuses" for the messages.
"I am incredibly angry at myself and apologise to the Jewish community,"*he said in a statement. ( should imagine others are angry and also regret thier poor comments )
"I have absolutely no excuses. I am ashamed of this exchange," he said.
"I was 19 at the time and hope and believe I am a different person today."
Banter ,racism ,stupidity??
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118
More banter , Azeem Rafiq has apologised and said he is "deeply ashamed" for using anti-Semitic language in messages from 2011.
The 30-year-old said he had "absolutely no excuses" for the messages.
"I am incredibly angry at myself and apologise to the Jewish community,"*he said in a statement. ( should imagine others are angry and also regret thier poor comments )
"I have absolutely no excuses. I am ashamed of this exchange," he said.
"I was 19 at the time and hope and believe I am a different person today."
Banter ,racism ,stupidity??
Oh dear.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
I think there's a reason Rafiq and Ballance got on so well, because they were both cocky, arrogant, bigoted t*ssers.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118
More banter , Azeem Rafiq has apologised and said he is "deeply ashamed" for using anti-Semitic language in messages from 2011.
The 30-year-old said he had "absolutely no excuses" for the messages.
"I am incredibly angry at myself and apologise to the Jewish community,"*he said in a statement. ( should imagine others are angry and also regret thier poor comments )
"I have absolutely no excuses. I am ashamed of this exchange," he said.
"I was 19 at the time and hope and believe I am a different person today."
Banter ,racism ,stupidity??
It's all been a bit of a one-way verbal assassination on anyone who Rafiq thinks has made racist/derogatory comments to him in the past 15 yrs., yet everyone accused has denied doing so. Michael Vaughan lost his job. Did any of the alleged incidents happen ? I'm sure some did, but this bloke has been given free-rein for days, in front of media, MP's etc. Perhaps now the hysteria will abate a little.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
It's all been a bit of a one-way verbal assassination on anyone who Rafiq thinks has made racist/derogatory comments to him in the past 15 yrs., yet everyone accused has denied doing so. Michael Vaughan lost his job. Did any of the alleged incidents happen ? I'm sure some did, but this bloke has been given free-rein for days, in front of media, MP's etc. Perhaps now the hysteria will abate a little.
What a messy business. And how dumb does that guardian article posted earlier read now?
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
It's all been a bit of a one-way verbal assassination on anyone who Rafiq thinks has made racist/derogatory comments to him in the past 15 yrs., yet everyone accused has denied doing so. Michael Vaughan lost his job. Did any of the alleged incidents happen ? I'm sure some did, but this bloke has been given free-rein for days, in front of media, MP's etc. Perhaps now the hysteria will abate a little.
Everyone has denied doing so???? Rubbish.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
Everyone has denied doing so???? Rubbish.
Really ? Who has confirmed his allegations ?
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
I think it tells us what we all really know that edgy lad like banter exists everywhere.
I hazard a guess it exists between India and Pakistan , question is does it make them racists or is it simply behaviour from an age where we didn't really realise its impact on others and folk like a show off comment to grab a reaction or laugh .
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
Really ? Who has confirmed his allegations ?
Matthew Hoggard has hasn't he?
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
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Originally Posted by
The Bloop
Matthew Hoggard has hasn't he?
And David Lloyd
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
And David Lloyd
neither have said they made racist/derogatory comments to Rafiq.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
neither have said they made racist/derogatory comments to Rafiq.
They both have apologised for any offence their comments caused just like Rafiq has done - Adil Rashid and Rana Naved have also backed up Rafig’s allegations regarding Michael Vaughan.
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Re: It's Just Not Cricket - Howzat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
neither have said they made racist/derogatory comments to Rafiq.
Hoggard apologised to Rafiq for what he said and how it made him feel. If it wasn't racist or derogatory what was it, and what did Hoggard apologise for?