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Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39504338
"In her judgement, Lady Hale said it would cause unacceptable disruption if parents were able to withdraw children whenever they wanted.
"Unauthorised absences have a disruptive effect, not only on the education of the individual child, but also on the work of other pupils, and of their teachers," she said.
Allowing parents to decide when they took their children away would be a "slap in the face" to parents who kept the rules, said Lady Hale."
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39504338
"In her judgement, Lady Hale said it would cause unacceptable disruption if parents were able to withdraw children whenever they wanted.
"Unauthorised absences have a disruptive effect, not only on the education of the individual child, but also on the work of other pupils, and of their teachers," she said.
Allowing parents to decide when they took their children away would be a "slap in the face" to parents who kept the rules, said Lady Hale."
It is merely a way for schools to make money. The 60 fine is a lot less than the difference in the price of a holiday in term compared to out of term.
It is accepted that children attending around 90-95% of the time is perfectly acceptable, i mean children are going to be ill in these times.
This method was brought in for truant, if a child is persistently absent. The attendance drops below 80% a fine is issued, if the child starts attending for 1 week after the issue. the fine is dropped. However one weeks holiday lands you with an immediate fine that doesn't go away after regular attendance. So a family holiday is worse than truancy.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Bollocks to that, we've just booked a holiday in July and we have kids who will be 4 and 7 this year.
I'm sure with so e intensive effort over the summer they'll be able to catch up the weeks worth of covering their uniforms in paint and glitter that seems to form the backbone of the curriculum.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Bollocks to that, we've just booked a holiday in July and we have kids who will be 4 and 7 this year.
I'm sure with so e intensive effort over the summer they'll be able to catch up the weeks worth of covering their uniforms in paint and glitter that seems to form the backbone of the curriculum.
Makes me laugh when they issue these fines during June and July. Anyone who has been to school in the last 20 years know that kids do feck all for the last 6 weeks of school.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zenith
Makes me laugh when they issue these fines during June and July. Anyone who has been to school in the last 20 years know that kids do feck all for the last 6 weeks of school.
Our eldest has exams in may, so we aren't going away before then, and i doubt we will do it in later years. Fortunately our school are pretty understanding, i you have over 92% attendance they will consider a request. We went last year in June and they were fine with it. I think some schools automatically reach for a fine these days as another source of income, as the usual funding is so poor.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
qccfc
It is merely a way for schools to make money. The 60 fine is a lot less than the difference in the price of a holiday in term compared to out of term.
It is accepted that children attending around 90-95% of the time is perfectly acceptable, i mean children are going to be ill in these times.
This method was brought in for truant, if a child is persistently absent. The attendance drops below 80% a fine is issued, if the child starts attending for 1 week after the issue. the fine is dropped. However one weeks holiday lands you with an immediate fine that doesn't go away after regular attendance. So a family holiday is worse than truancy.
Considering that an average kid may be off school 5% of the year, then adding to potential time off is a bit careless.
Interestingly, he claims schools/the state are interfering with his rights as a parent. I wonder if his employer refuses leave will he take them to court claiming that his rights are being infringed?
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Bollocks to that, we've just booked a holiday in July and we have kids who will be 4 and 7 this year.
I'm sure with so e intensive effort over the summer they'll be able to catch up the weeks worth of covering their uniforms in paint and glitter that seems to form the backbone of the curriculum.
Whose effort is required for that? Your's or the teacher's?
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zenith
Anyone who has been to school in the last 20 years know that kids do feck all for the last 6 weeks of school.
Not strictly true is it?
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Our eldest has exams in may, so we aren't going away before then, and i doubt we will do it in later years. Fortunately our school are pretty understanding, i you have over 92% attendance they will consider a request. We went last year in June and they were fine with it. I think some schools automatically reach for a fine these days as another source of income, as the usual funding is so poor.
My son's school was graded red largely because of poor attendance. Issuing fines has made a huge improvement. Further, my son's teacher told me during the parent's evening that the improvement in attendance has resulted in her having more time to teach. She estimated that, at times, she was spending 3-4 hours a week with the kids playing catch-up just so that their parents could subject them to harmful UV rays in the Costa Del Crap.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
Whose effort is required for that? Your's or the teacher's?
In theory ours, but as he's already doing work from the year above across all subjects I suspect he'll be fine.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
qccfc
It is merely a way for schools to make money.
No it isn't. Schools have to meet certain targets, and if the general attendance drops below 95% they lose grading points. I agree though, £60 is not enough. It should be £60 per day per kid. A two week holiday would cost £1,200 in fines for a family with 2 kids. The schools could then employ someone to help the spoiled kids catch up with the kids who have responsible parents.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
The root cause of the problem is the travel companies jacking up prices at school holiday times.
Maybe the government should do something about that but they won't because most of them send their kids
to private schools which already have way longer holiday envelopes than state schools so they are less affected.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
In theory ours, but as he's already doing work from the year above across all subjects I suspect he'll be fine.
Good point, maybe kids with a good school record and grades could be rewarded with an extra few days off at the end of the school year, or the start of the next year?
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
My son's school was graded red largely because of poor attendance. Issuing fines has made a huge improvement. Further, my son's teacher told me during the parent's evening that the improvement in attendance has resulted in her having more time to teach. She estimated that, at times, she was spending 3-4 hours a week with the kids playing catch-up just so that their parents could subject them to harmful UV rays in the Costa Del Crap.
But we are not talking about poor attendance though are we. We are still talking about children that attend over 90% of the school year.
I would prefer a system with dialogue between parents and teachers, over the lines of. I would like to take a week off because its best for me, the teacher then says a) this is an important time so i wouldn't think its for the best (ie exams, or important work), or b) yes that's fine his/her attendance is good. here is some school work to take.
Im fully behind fines for families who has attended dropping towards the 80% mark. Im fully behind helping teachers and schools. Children should be at school.
However fining children who have attendance over the 90% mark is simply raising cash.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
My son's school was graded red largely because of poor attendance. Issuing fines has made a huge improvement. Further, my son's teacher told me during the parent's evening that the improvement in attendance has resulted in her having more time to teach. She estimated that, at times, she was spending 3-4 hours a week with the kids playing catch-up just so that their parents could subject them to harmful UV rays in the Costa Del Crap.
The Welsh school gradings are a load of shite. Llanederyn high was in the green category whilst at the same time branded a failing school and closed down.
Attendance in general is important if course and if it gets bad can have a detrimental effect, fortunately our school has a sensible policy on it. Kids with 100% get prizes 92% and above and they'll usually agree to a week off
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
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Originally Posted by
BlueWales
The root cause of the problem is the travel companies jacking up prices at school holiday times.
Maybe the government should do something about that but they won't because most of them send their kids
to private schools which already have way longer holiday envelopes than state schools so they are less affected.
That's a market economy for you. Supply and demand. Plus, not taking your kids on holiday abroad - is it really that bad? It's a luxury, not a necessity
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
No it isn't. Schools have to meet certain targets, and if the general attendance drops below 95% they lose grading points. I agree though, £60 is not enough. It should be £60 per day per kid. A two week holiday would cost £1,200 in fines for a family with 2 kids. The schools could then employ someone to help the spoiled kids catch up with the kids who have responsible parents.
They've probably all got Kodi boxes too, the bastards.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
qccfc
But we are not talking about poor attendance though are we. We are still talking about children that attend over 90% of the school year.
I would prefer a system with dialogue between parents and teachers, over the lines of. I would like to take a week off because its best for me, the teacher then says a) this is an important time so i wouldn't think its for the best (ie exams, or important work), or b) yes that's fine his/her attendance is good. here is some school work to take.
Im fully behind fines for families who has attended dropping towards the 80% mark. Im fully behind helping teachers and schools. Children should be at school.
However fining children who have attendance over the 90% mark is simply raising cash.
The problem is. as soon as schools give in to such demands, the floodgates are well and truly opened. How much effort is required for a teacher to bring a kid up to speed with other kids, having missed two weeks because his parents felt a sense of entitlement to a holiday?
Maybe kids with a 98% or above attendance could be rewarded with some extra days off for a holiday. If my attendance at work was 92%, I'd get a disciplinary. In fact, I had a disciplinary for having 2 periods of 3 days off in an 18 month period.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itkman
They've probably all got Kodi boxes too, the bastards.
Are you always this irrelevant?
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Schools could stagger their holidays.
Instead of a block of 6 weeks they could have everyone off for the same 2 weeks in the summer, then fit in the other 4 weeks wherever they see fit throughout the year. This will ease the supply and demand issue with holidays.
Secondaries and feeder primarys would have to match their dates though obviously.
This was suggested by a teacher mate of mine who says that after 6 weeks off they've forgotten every ****ing thing they've just learned anyway.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Are you always this irrelevant?
Attachment 1412
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
The problem is. as soon as schools give in to such demands, the floodgates are well and truly opened. How much effort is required for a teacher to bring a kid up to speed with other kids, having missed two weeks because his parents felt a sense of entitlement to a holiday?
Maybe kids with a 98% or above attendance could be rewarded with some extra days off for a holiday. If my attendance at work was 92%, I'd get a disciplinary. In fact, I had a disciplinary for having 2 periods of 3 days off in an 18 month period.
You can book holidays at work, so the point is irrelevant. In a medium sized business with all of us with families all trying to get time off in a 6 week period is too difficult to schedule.
I havent had any term time holidays for the last 3 years, i just have smaller UK based vacations. However i do believe there should be an option there to book a weeks leave from school. At 4 and 7 i'm sure i could cover their work load for a week.
Maybe cut down the 6 weeks holiday to 4 weeks and give each child 2 weeks annual leave.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
It's more Big Brother shite. Do as you're told, or else.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
It would be nice to see the Welsh assembly take a lead on this, reduce the summer holidays to 2 weeks and then split the schools into 4 groups allocating them one of the weeks in June, July, October and September each.
Numbers going away should be low enough not to push the prices up too much and they're wouldn't be a 6 week block of learning regression
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
my neighbous school does all there training days in one block instead of the odd day now and again so parents can take a week out in the term
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
The problem is. as soon as schools give in to such demands, the floodgates are well and truly opened. How much effort is required for a teacher to bring a kid up to speed with other kids, having missed two weeks because his parents felt a sense of entitlement to a holiday?
Maybe kids with a 98% or above attendance could be rewarded with some extra days off for a holiday. If my attendance at work was 92%, I'd get a disciplinary. In fact, I had a disciplinary for having 2 periods of 3 days off in an 18 month period.
Yeah, be a good little drone and you might get to spend some time with your parents :hehe:
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
qccfc
You can book holidays at work, so the point is irrelevant. In a medium sized business with all of us with families all trying to get time off in a 6 week period is too difficult to schedule.
I havent had any term time holidays for the last 3 years, i just have smaller UK based vacations. However i do believe there should be an option there to book a weeks leave from school. At 4 and 7 i'm sure i could cover their work load for a week.
Maybe cut down the 6 weeks holiday to 4 weeks and give each child 2 weeks annual leave.
In a previous life when I was a bus conductor we all had 4 weeks holiday a year in 2 blocks of 2 weeks. Rotas and duties were organised on the basis of the same % of crew on holiday at any point throughout the year. In most cases the 2 weeks fell in school term time, although the following year they would move on a few weeks. When the holiday rotas came out most people with kids were desperately trying to swap their holidays with people without kids. Most failed and either had to take their holidays in term time, or not have a holiday with their kids at all. I think the same system operates now.
You could say those people had an exaggerated sense of entitlement to family holidays? On the other hand they are far more restricted than people in jobs where they can apply for holiday leave at any time (subject to cover and business/service priorities). It was not about chasing lower cost holidays in their case - either in the UK or abroad. There must be other jobs like that too?
However, although I think there should always be space for discretion and exceptional circumstances, I do think rules should be respected and followed as much as possible. Collective provision and responsibility before individual preference. The man in the High Court case was arguing the primacy of parental choice over school rules - not exceptions or costs - and I disagree with him.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
Considering that an average kid may be off school 5% of the year, then adding to potential time off is a bit careless.
Interestingly, he claims schools/the state are interfering with his rights as a parent. I wonder if his employer refuses leave will he take them to court claiming that his rights are being infringed?
Your child belongs to the State, not you.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
I like how the battle is with schools and parents when this should be between government and the travel companies.
Holidays are good for the children and it's not nice that families are forced out of spending decent time with each other.
there needs to be a pragmatic approach to this and span out the holidays as much as possible but it's difficult when everything revolves around Christmas.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39504338
"In her judgement, Lady Hale said it would cause unacceptable disruption if parents were able to withdraw children whenever they wanted.
"Unauthorised absences have a disruptive effect, not only on the education of the individual child, but also on the work of other pupils, and of their teachers," she said.
Allowing parents to decide when they took their children away would be a "slap in the face" to parents who kept the rules, said Lady Hale."
It already is a slap in the face. Our kids always go to school, not missed a day so far this school year, but if I want to take them out on a holiday which will be half the price in term time I f in well will....they can do one. The amount of parents I see who keep there kids off all the time because they can't be arsed to take them, or one is ill so don't leave house is unreal. Foreigners feel they can phuck off back to wherever for a nice long month or two and just come back. See it all the time, no fine as got no money. These and the other chavs are the Ines that disrupt schooling more, not the middle of the rd normals who are just struggling to afford a holiday, the Ines who teach there kids at home aswell, where they learn more than in school anyway.....
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
It's more Big Brother shite. Do as you're told, or else.
Exactly, the can do one with the fines....waste it in the usual shite like they do....
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zenith
Makes me laugh when they issue these fines during June and July. Anyone who has been to school in the last 20 years know that kids do feck all for the last 6 weeks of school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
Not strictly true is it?
In my experience it is. I left Barry Boys 6 years ago, and my younger brothers left last summer.
Once GCSE & A-Level exams are underway in May/June, the Year 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 population dwindles by the day as more & more kids finish their last exam.
By mid-June the place is practically empty. Sometimes certain A-Level teachers will have their Year 12 students in for a certain week in June/July to get a headstart on the Year 13 topics, whereas most other teachers will accept that there's no point in them even turning up unless they're teaching Years 7 & 8.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
I work close to the team that dishes out these fines in my LA. I don't believe the fines work, they legitimise poor behaviour and are so low that people will save an enormous amount even after paying the fine. In our area it seems to be pretty much an automatic fine unless you have a bloody good reason for taking them out. However, schools used to decide entirely on a case by case basis but parents eventually made this impossible. We used to get lots of calls from whinging arseholes telling us the school had turned down their request and trying to state their case (which usually involved bullshit along the lines of 'there is this other family who never turns up, they are allowed on 5 holidays a term and no one fines them'). It was becoming unmanageable for us so I dread to think what it was like for the schools.
As someone pointed out earlier, it does seem to be incompatible with the notion of fines/prosecutions for persistent absence (often families who are fined for holidays have good attendance levels otherwise). It is also at odds with the government/LA attitude to home education, you can currently opt to pull your kid out of school, face little resistance despite offering no evidence that you have a hope in hell of educating them to any decent standard.
The government/LA does however have a duty to protect the most vulnerable children from harm, and that includes ensuring they get a decent education thus giving them greater choice when they become an adult. I am not sure where I stand on the whole state vs parent argument. The most vulnerable kids need intervention of varying levels, is a small amount of inconvenience to everyone else a price worth paying? In my opinion it probably is. I know I am petrified when I hear the phrase 'They are my kids and I can do what I want with them!'
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
I have sympathy on both sides, I'm taking my kids out of school for three days at the end of term, but I wouldn't just take a week or more off right in the middle of the school year even though they are young.
The sense of entitlement from some parents does make me chuckle though. This woman on the radio earlier was ranting about it being within her human rights to have a foreign holiday. And the line about her kids learning more by having a week in Majorca as if she's taking them on some sort of cultural exchange ffs :hehe:
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
If you don't tell anyone you're going away and phone the school each morning for a week to say your child is ill, the school would be none the wiser.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
If you don't tell anyone you're going away and phone the school each morning for a week to say your child is ill, the school would be none the wiser.
Depends how old your kid is.
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Labour are talking about the importance of each and every child eating one healthy meal a day and proposing ideas about how to fund that, why not allow those parents who wish to take their child out of school pay a charge (less than the difference between a trip in school holidays) in order to help fund that project and further project that help maximise children's time in and after school?
Big potential positives about taking a child out in school-term but how many parents consider whether it's the right time for a child to be elsewhere and how the trip planned can help the child or do the majority of parents using those excuses just want a cheaper holiday?
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
what about parents who home-school their kids? :homer:
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itkman
Depends how old your kid is.
and how brown they normally after being sick for a week
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Re: Selfish parent forced to take child on holidays during School Holidays
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCPhil
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39504338
"In her judgement, Lady Hale said it would cause unacceptable disruption if parents were able to withdraw children whenever they wanted.
"Unauthorised absences have a disruptive effect, not only on the education of the individual child, but also on the work of other pupils, and of their teachers," she said.
Allowing parents to decide when they took their children away would be a "slap in the face" to parents who kept the rules, said Lady Hale."
When are they going to fine teachers for withdrawing their services and going on strike, allowing teachers to decide, is just a slap in the face to parents.