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The most spineless PM in living memory?
Given the circumstances, I was going to say it's incredible that Boris Johnson didn't have the courage to face the press today and instead pushed Grant Schapps into the firing line, but let's be honest - it wasn't incredible at all. Considering his track record, it was exactly what you would have expected Johnson to do. Can anyone think of another Prime Minister in our recent history who would have been gutless enough to have done something similar?
Regardless of which side of the political spectrum you're on, I think you have to concede that Johnson is comfortably the most spineless leader this country has had during our lifetimes.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Given the circumstances, I was going to say it's incredible that Boris Johnson didn't have the courage to face the press today and instead pushed Grant Schapps into the firing line, but let's be honest - it wasn't incredible at all. Considering his track record, it was exactly what you would have expected Johnson to do. Can anyone think of another Prime Minister in our recent history who would have been gutless enough to have done something similar?
Regardless of which side of the political spectrum you're on, I think you have to concede that Johnson is comfortably the most spineless leader this country has had during our lifetimes.
Was he due to take the briefing then ?
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
dml1954
Was he due to take the briefing then ?
I've no idea, but given the fact he knew that both his conduct and that of his most senior advisor were going to be under intense scrutiny, it's no surprise that he was in hiding.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Seems to me each of the different national leaders to a greater or lesser extent has placed party and politics at the fore front of their decision making whereas what we really needed is someone, who in these dark times, strives to place the needs of the people first.
In my opinion What Johnson has clearly shown us is that he is no leader. No doubt as usual others may disagree.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Given the circumstances, I was going to say it's incredible that Boris Johnson didn't have the courage to face the press today and instead pushed Grant Schapps into the firing line, but let's be honest - it wasn't incredible at all. Considering his track record, it was exactly what you would have expected Johnson to do. Can anyone think of another Prime Minister in our recent history who would have been gutless enough to have done something similar?
Regardless of which side of the political spectrum you're on, I think you have to concede that Johnson is comfortably the most spineless leader this country has had during our lifetimes.
He has a track record of not turning up for meetings or turning up late, unprepared. Where he can, he let's others take the flak and avoids having to explain clearly, being the wafflemeister supreme. I'm surprised he turns up for PMQs. If that is "spineless" behaviour, all I can do is agree.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
IanD
He has a track record of not turning up for meetings or turning up late, unprepared. Where he can, he let's others take the flak and avoids having to explain clearly, being the wafflemeister supreme. I'm surprised he turns up for PMQs. If that is "spineless" behaviour, all I can do is agree.
It's fair to say I wasn't a fan of David Cameron or Theresa May, but I'm confident that both of them would have had the backbone to face the media and the public today under similar circumstances.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
His record is out there. It’s one of lying and laziness. He is a pathetic individual with a fake persona which the vast majority lap up by going along with the call me “Boris” bullshit.
Johnson is finally being found out although many will still shrug their shoulders and back him.
Spineless? You bet.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Cameron was pretty spineless but johnson takes the sandwich
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
His record is out there. It’s one of lying and laziness. He is a pathetic individual with a fake persona which the vast majority lap up by going along with the call me “Boris” bullshit.
Johnson is finally being found out although many will still shrug their shoulders and back him.
Spineless? You bet.
I agree, but signs of a shift?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...nment-approval
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanD
He has a track record of not turning up for meetings or turning up late, unprepared. Where he can, he let's others take the flak and avoids having to explain clearly, being the wafflemeister supreme. I'm surprised he turns up for PMQs. If that is "spineless" behaviour, all I can do is agree.
But you have no idea where Johnson was or what he was doing. There are undoubtedly many more important things he can or should be doing than talking about one of his advisers conduct. Grant Shapps made some quite important announcements about transport policy, which is presumably why he took the briefing but no one was remotely interested in that and what he said was submerged by the political point scoring and oneupmanship feeding frenzy that took place from the media. Come on, surely we have got more important things to worry about than this ?
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
His record is out there. It’s one of lying and laziness. He is a pathetic individual with a fake persona which the vast majority lap up by going along with the call me “Boris” bullshit.
Johnson is finally being found out although many will still shrug their shoulders and back him.
Spineless? You bet.
He is the worst PM ever no guts but a lot of bluff.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
dml1954
Come on, surely we have got more important things to worry about than this ?
I can understand your concern. After all, the way things are going you'll to have to take down your poster of Boris and put up a blank sheet of paper instead.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
dml1954
Was he due to take the briefing then ?
No, I think he only does one day a week. Which wouldn't have been today. Had he come out today, it would have been seen as some sort of concession, that he viewed Cummings' antics as more serious than he claimed they were. Saying that, Trump does the briefings daily in the US, and I think we should be seeing more of Johnson personally.
He has a reputation for being a part-time politician even before this, with staff told to keep memos and briefings down to a page or two. He's completely unaware as to how this looks to Joe Public, especially as every day the news is we have hundreds more dead, thousands more testing positive, 100,000 targets rarely being met (and only being met when the figures are fudged).
His approval rating has dipped into negative territory, though I am sure he'll be along on Monday to remind us how much he values foreign NHS workers, like the ones who saved his life (I find it disgusting how he used that for political capital - my own father has been in ICU on 4 occasions, each time there was an army of nurses and doctors caring for him, but that was before the NHS was butt-****ed into a corpse by a succession of Labour and Tory Governments). "I think I mentioned I had covid-19 once, but think I got away with it".
So, in regards to the opening question, yes he is completely the most spineless, clueless, rudderless leader I have ever known. He has knocked Brown into a cocked hat. He has even made May look good, and has made Cameron look industrious in comparison.
Thatcher
Major
Blair
Brown
Cameron
May
Each one would have handled this better than Part Time Johnson. Would Corbyn have done better, I don't really think so but, frankly, I can't see how he would have done any worse. FIFTEEN THOUSAND deaths in care homes, you know, those places that were forced to take in patients who were displaying symptoms, or who were awaiting test results.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
dml1954
But you have no idea where Johnson was or what he was doing. There are undoubtedly many more important things he can or should be doing than talking about one of his advisers conduct. Grant Shapps made some quite important announcements about transport policy, which is presumably why he took the briefing but no one was remotely interested in that and what he said was submerged by the political point scoring and oneupmanship feeding frenzy that took place from the media. Come on, surely we have got more important things to worry about than this ?
Funnily enough the House of Commons, virtual or not is where you present government policy on transport. Not a daily briefing supposedly about Coronavirus which is now moving from an opportunity to give the nation important guidance and information about how to manage their lives and more an opportunity for the government to get their message out about a range of things that have nothing or little to do with the virus because they have spotted a captive audience.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
What about Neville Chamberlain? :shrug:
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
What about Neville Chamberlain?
I was born in the Sixties.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I was born in the Sixties.
good point, well made lmao :hehe:
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
What about Neville Chamberlain? :shrug:
History revision has been unkind on Chamberlain. When he returned with "that piece of paper" in his hands, the populace were largely supportive with many having lived through the horrors of WW1 and the depression that followed it.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
The man has had a near death experience and allowances need to be made for that, but, as TLG says, the problem is that Boris Johnson was like he is now before he got ill. The man who hid in a fridge to avoid the media during the election campaign has previous - he loves it when things are going well, but he was never going to be the man for a crisis like this.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Funnily enough the House of Commons, virtual or not is where you present government policy on transport. Not a daily briefing supposedly about Coronavirus which is now moving from an opportunity to give the nation important guidance and information about how to manage their lives and more an opportunity for the government to get their message out about a range of things that have nothing or little to do with the virus because they have spotted a captive audience.
Not only a captive audience, but a media that is asking questions over Skype. They then answer the question they want to answer, rather than the one asked and onto the next journalist. It really should be a "Party Political Broadcast by the Manslaughter of thousands Party".
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
The man has had a near death experience and allowances need to be made for that, but, as TLG says, the problem is that Boris Johnson was like he is now before he got ill. The man who hid in a fridge to avoid the media during the election campaign has previous - he loves it when things are going well, but he was never going to be the man for a crisis like this.
He also cancelled a speech in Rochester on Police advice. Kuenssberg tweeted just that - "PM cancels speech on police advice".
What actually happened was that there were 4-5 protesters there, and Johnson chickened out. Some say he is a "nice guy" and "avoids confrontation". Remember a large part of the early days of this virus saw him handling a divorce with his wife, who was suffering from cancer I believe, whilst trying to make his pregnant girlfriend his fiance to make it more palatable to the silver voters.
Most spineless PM in living memory? Absolutely. Most spineless in the last 100 years, it's difficult to think of any worse.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
He also cancelled a speech in Rochester on Police advice. Kuenssberg tweeted just that - "PM cancels speech on police advice".
What actually happened was that there were 4-5 protesters there, and Johnson chickened out. Some say he is a "nice guy" and "avoids confrontation". Remember a large part of the early days of this virus saw him handling a divorce with his wife, who was suffering from cancer I believe, whilst trying to make his pregnant girlfriend his fiance to make it more palatable to the silver voters.
Most spineless PM in living memory? Absolutely. Most spineless in the last 100 years, it's difficult to think of any worse.
My history isnt that great.
Who were the ones over 100 years ago that were more spineless?
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Come on.
In the circumstances he's doing the"best"he can.
The circumstances being he's a lying useless tosspot.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
dml1954
Was he due to take the briefing then ?
I get the feeling Johnson could do absolutely anything, and you’d defend him to the hilt.
When he came to power, although i’ve never voted Tory in my life, i thought to myself, ok, lets see what he can do.
In such a short space of time, he's proved to be Very poor, and inadequate for the job he's paid to do.
In all walks of life, the buck stops at the top. Unless he was ill, he should have fronted the situation today.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
My history isnt that great.
Who were the ones over 100 years ago that were more spineless?
I drew the line at 100 years because my history is also not so great.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
My history isnt that great.
Who were the ones over 100 years ago that were more spineless?
I don't know about spineless, but Lord North was marginally more useless. Had to go back over 200 years for him though!
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Well I'm sure he will be gone by the next election, , especially after reading this cross section of views .
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Given the circumstances, I was going to say it's incredible that Boris Johnson didn't have the courage to face the press today and instead pushed Grant Schapps into the firing line, but let's be honest - it wasn't incredible at all. Considering his track record, it was exactly what you would have expected Johnson to do. Can anyone think of another Prime Minister in our recent history who would have been gutless enough to have done something similar?
Regardless of which side of the political spectrum you're on, I think you have to concede that Johnson is comfortably the most spineless leader this country has had during our lifetimes.
Has everyone checked their fridges to see if BoJo is hiding in there?
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
But you have no idea where Johnson was or what he was doing. There are undoubtedly many more important things he can or should be doing than talking about one of his advisers conduct. Grant Shapps made some quite important announcements about transport policy, which is presumably why he took the briefing but no one was remotely interested in that and what he said was submerged by the political point scoring and oneupmanship feeding frenzy that took place from the media. Come on, surely we have got more important things to worry about than this ?
One of the Government's most senior advisors broke lockdown rules when he HAD Coronavirus, which undoubtedly will mean that more people will flaunt any lockdown rules from now on because if he can go visit his parents when he's actively got symptoms then why the hell should any of the rest of us stay at home when we haven't.
I'd say this is an important issue, and TLG's right, it's utterly spineless to send someone else out to face the music. But Johnson does that every time.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
The whole Cummings thing is massively overblown, mostly because people just don't like him. Being realistic within government, as within a percentage of the population then there's a lot of breaches of lockdown.
Is this in the current climate the most important thing that the government should be taking questions on?
I'd love for the time being for political point scoring to be left on the back burner but between opposition mps and the press (large amount of which have asked about 2 valuable questions between them during these daily conferences) then there is no chance of that.
He may be gutless, but it isn't because of not being overly enthused with questions on Cummings and the inevitable twisting of everything he would say anyway. I'd far prefer to believe he has more important things to be doing.
Should Cummings himself step down? Yes of course. Does it need to dominate the media for the next couple of days? No.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Given the circumstances, I was going to say it's incredible that Boris Johnson didn't have the courage to face the press today and instead pushed Grant Schapps into the firing line, but let's be honest - it wasn't incredible at all. Considering his track record, it was exactly what you would have expected Johnson to do. Can anyone think of another Prime Minister in our recent history who would have been gutless enough to have done something similar?
Regardless of which side of the political spectrum you're on, I think you have to concede that Johnson is comfortably the most spineless leader this country has had during our lifetimes.
Not very often we are in the same camp, but cannot dispute what you have said.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
The whole Cummings thing is massively overblown, mostly because people just don't like him. Being realistic within government, as within a percentage of the population then there's a lot of breaches of lockdown.
Is this in the current climate the most important thing that the government should be taking questions on?
I'd love for the time being for political point scoring to be left on the back burner but between opposition mps and the press (large amount of which have asked about 2 valuable questions between them during these daily conferences) then there is no chance of that.
He may be gutless, but it isn't because of not being overly enthused with questions on Cummings and the inevitable twisting of everything he would say anyway. I'd far prefer to believe he has more important things to be doing.
Should Cummings himself step down? Yes of course. Does it need to dominate the media for the next couple of days? No.
It'll only dominate the media for the next couple of days if he doesn't step down
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
The whole Cummings thing is massively overblown, mostly because people just don't like him. Being realistic within government, as within a percentage of the population then there's a lot of breaches of lockdown.
Is this in the current climate the most important thing that the government should be taking questions on?
I'd love for the time being for political point scoring to be left on the back burner but between opposition mps and the press (large amount of which have asked about 2 valuable questions between them during these daily conferences) then there is no chance of that.
He may be gutless, but it isn't because of not being overly enthused with questions on Cummings and the inevitable twisting of everything he would say anyway. I'd far prefer to believe he has more important things to be doing.
Should Cummings himself step down? Yes of course. Does it need to dominate the media for the next couple of days? No.
It is certainly not overblown, what he did was totally reckless and from someone with supposed intelligence, criminal.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Has everyone checked their fridges to see if BoJo is hiding in there?
😂😂😂😂😂
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
The last time I saw my Mother was the 2nd week of March. She was in a stroke unit in Ystrad Fawr having suffered a severe stroke in January that left her incapacitated and been transferred there from the Royal Gwent. I live in Berkshire but visited her most weeks staying in the vacated family home until the lockdown announcement. Since then she has moved to a hospital in Ebbw Vale and then a care home in the Rhymney Valley. I phone and get regular updates.
I accepted the pain of not being with her through the late stages of her life because of the risks I could bring to her, others and my family. Today I understand that the most important thing all along was not that but your closest family as long as you could isolate yourself which over-rode any guidance the government was giving to the masses. I would guess there are loads of people like me who think that rules are for the little people!
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
The whole Cummings thing is massively overblown, mostly because people just don't like him. Being realistic within government, as within a percentage of the population then there's a lot of breaches of lockdown.
Is this in the current climate the most important thing that the government should be taking questions on?
I'd love for the time being for political point scoring to be left on the back burner but between opposition mps and the press (large amount of which have asked about 2 valuable questions between them during these daily conferences) then there is no chance of that.
He may be gutless, but it isn't because of not being overly enthused with questions on Cummings and the inevitable twisting of everything he would say anyway. I'd far prefer to believe he has more important things to be doing.
Should Cummings himself step down? Yes of course. Does it need to dominate the media for the next couple of days? No.
"Political point scoring"? The adviser to the Prime Minister flouted the Govt's own guidance and has completely undermined the message that they have been giving the public since "lockdown".
You have said it yourself that he should step down, yet the party that he represents by proxy have defended his actions and have therefore exacerbated the argument.
If they had recognised that Cummings' actions have left them looking like hypocrites (and have now left the rules open to far more interpretation than we've been told was allowed, and fired him, it would be out of the news pretty quickly.
Instead, it will drag on until a bigger story happens, which may be tomorrow or the next day at this rate... But to call it political point scoring from the opposition is entirely inaccurate, in my opinion.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
The whole Cummings thing is massively overblown, mostly because people just don't like him. Being realistic within government, as within a percentage of the population then there's a lot of breaches of lockdown.
Is this in the current climate the most important thing that the government should be taking questions on?
It's absolutely key to the entire issue of the lockdown, past, present and future.
It appears that a senior government advisor, a man who actually sat in on some of the SAGE meetings and who helped to construct the government's lockdown policies, didn't believe the guidance being hammered home to the public on a daily basis was valid enough to follow himself. Either that, or he believed the rules didn't apply to him.
The fact that this guy appears to be an arrogant, contemptible prick is neither here nor there - Scotland's chief medical officer came across as a thoroughly decent and genuine person, but she quickly realised she had no option but to resign once her indiscretions were revealed.
The wider question is what Johnson knew about this situation and whether or not he was complicit. It will be extremely damaging for him if, as seems probable, he knew exactly what Cummings was up to.
You dismiss this issue as being 'massively overblown'. Try telling that to people who have had to miss the funerals of family, friends and loved ones in order to comply with the guidelines, or haven't felt able to offer help and support to relatives during this time of crisis because they were following the government's rules while one of its highest-ranking employees was driving long distances to visit his relatives.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
It's absolutely key to the entire issue of the lockdown, past, present and future.
It appears that a senior government advisor, a man who actually sat in on some of the SAGE meetings and who helped to construct the government's lockdown policies, didn't believe the guidance being hammered home to the public on a daily basis was valid enough to follow himself. Either that, or he believed the rules didn't apply to him.
The fact that this guy appears to be an arrogant, contemptible prick is neither here nor there - Scotland's chief medical officer came across as a thoroughly decent and genuine person, but she quickly realised she had no option but to resign once her indiscretions were revealed.
The wider question is what Johnson knew about this situation and whether or not he was complicit. It will be extremely damaging for him if, as seems probable, he knew exactly what Cummings was up to.
You dismiss this issue as being 'massively overblown'. Try telling that to people who have had to miss the funerals of family, friends and loved ones in order to comply with the guidelines, or haven't felt able to offer help and support to relatives during this time of crisis because they were following the government's rules while one of its highest-ranking employees was driving long distances to visit his relatives.
Well said Dave, this particular Tory Govt. and its "advisors" are far too comfortable to follow the rules they set for others, at a time of National crisis it is a disgrace. Boris Gump strikes again.
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Re: The most spineless PM in living memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
It's absolutely key to the entire issue of the lockdown, past, present and future.
It appears that a senior government advisor, a man who actually sat in on some of the SAGE meetings and who helped to construct the government's lockdown policies, didn't believe the guidance being hammered home to the public on a daily basis was valid enough to follow himself. Either that, or he believed the rules didn't apply to him.
The fact that this guy appears to be an arrogant, contemptible prick is neither here nor there - Scotland's chief medical officer came across as a thoroughly decent and genuine person, but she quickly realised she had no option but to resign once her indiscretions were revealed.
The wider question is what Johnson knew about this situation and whether or not he was complicit. It will be extremely damaging for him if, as seems probable, he knew exactly what Cummings was up to.
You dismiss this issue as being 'massively overblown'. Try telling that to people who have had to miss the funerals of family, friends and loved ones in order to comply with the guidelines, or haven't felt able to offer help and support to relatives during this time of crisis because they were following the government's rules while one of its highest-ranking employees was driving long distances to visit his relatives.
✅
I don’t do politics as it’s all a ****fest.
But these people are taking the piss out of the public big time. And the supposed british media who should call these people to account are complicit by failing to do their job.
What frightens me also is that the lunatics currently running the asylum will get voted in again because there is no credible opposition.