Welsh Government here to stay

There's an article on WalesOnline today showing that around 40% want either more powers for the WG or independence with less than a quarter wanting the WG to have fewer powers or be abolished. This is roughly in line with most polls of this nature that take place from time to time.

What's particularly interesting is that around a third of over 65s want the WG abolished, yet there's little support for that from the under 45s, while the opposite is true for independence, where there's greatest support from under 35s.

My gut feeling is that most Tory voters would want shot of it, probably as their party isn't in charge, but most other voters of other parties are happy with things. Certainly support for the Welsh Government is greater than it was at the time of the 1999 referendum election and polls like this suggest support for devolution will continue to grow.

It'll be interesting to read some of the replies, to see how many claim youngsters don't know what they're talking about, how many will use names like Dripford and so on. You can almost predict who will come out with nonsense like that!

Oh wow, strip out all the public sector jobs funded by Westminster and we would be less comfortable and fooked

Would be interesting to see a breakdown of it all and what powers people want transferred.

What isn't in doubt is that the Welsh Parliament has established itself as an important part of life here, and rightly so. As imperfect as the institution and the Welsh Govt is, it would seem very strange now for these issues not to be devolved to a Wales-wide level.

I'm not sure I want additional powers for the WG. I'm not really convinced they make the most of what they have and I don't sense they would spend it better. Certainly it should come hand in hand with more financial responsibilities too.

No issues with phrases like Dripford etc. People are allowed to not like him, and far worse is said about others

Independence? The polls will always bob along. I think the movement helps by having a kind of romantic edge to it, and any serious scrutiny of it, such as in a campaign would see it fall.

That said, it's amazing when you contrast the performance of the SNP in recent years and Plaid, who appear to be really underperforming

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Would be interesting to see a breakdown of it all and what powers people want transferred.

What isn't in doubt is that the Welsh Parliament has established itself as an important part of life here, and rightly so. As imperfect as the institution and the Welsh Govt is, it would seem very strange now for these issues not to be devolved to a Wales-wide level.

I'm not sure I want additional powers for the WG. I'm not really convinced they make the most of what they have and I don't sense they would spend it better. Certainly it should come hand in hand with more financial responsibilities too.

No issues with phrases like Dripford etc. People are allowed to not like him, and far worse is said about others

Independence? The polls will always bob along. I think the movement helps by having a kind of romantic edge to it, and any serious scrutiny of it, such as in a campaign would see it fall.

That said, it's amazing when you contrast the performance of the SNP in recent years and Plaid, who appear to be really underperforming

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The poll allowed 5 options - Independence, more powers (overall), happy as things stand, less powers, abolish. Half papers had the options the other way around to avoid bias.

One problem with spending in Wales is that we're not England, we have different issues and problems.

Plaid fare far better in Welsh Government elections where the Tories are much less of an enemy, it's usually Plaid causing problems for Labour. I think Plaid did ok in European elections, where people felt they wanted more Welsh representation in Brussels. They never perform as well in UK elections, probably out of a need to have Labour seats in Wales to try and oust the Tory government, where voting Plaid in some areas could lead to the Tories getting in.

It's just an opinion, but I believe most of Welsh politics is more about hatred of the Conservatives, who despite any host of issues in the past, have never appeared particularly pro-Wales. Indeed, their preference would be to rule the whole of the UK from the south east of England. Nationalism is a dirty word to some, though this doesn't seem to affect Scotland. Plaid's lack of performance is not that much of an indicator of how Welsh people view Wales, either. Polls in the past have suggested around 40% of Labour voters in Wales back independance, meaning Welsh labour cannot publicly shun the idea.

Tory voters aside, most of whom want rid of the Welsh Government, I believe most people are less interested in the importance or not of individual issues when forming their opinion on the WG. Take the new 20mph speed limits, which I don't support and, from what I read, are hugely unpopular. Very few voters would change their mind on the WG over this, despite not liking the new law.

Perhaps the current support for the Senedd is tied in to the lack of support for the UK government. I'd suggest that we look at this in a few years once we have a new UK government. The Welsh public may think differently if they believe the UK government is no longer crooked, or at least considers some of our interests.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

Perhaps the current support for the Senedd is tied in to the lack of support for the UK government. I'd suggest that we look at this in a few years once we have a new UK government. The Welsh public may think differently if they believe the UK government is no longer crooked, or at least considers some of our interests.

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When we've had a few years of a Labour government and Wales is still rooted to the bottom of socio-economic indicators it may also make people wonder if perhaps the Welsh government doesn't also bear some responsibility for that.

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

When we've had a few years of a Labour government and Wales is still rooted to the bottom of socio-economic indicators it may also make people wonder if perhaps the Welsh government doesn't also bear some responsibility for that.

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But they don't get enough money from London, repeat to fade !!!!!.

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

But they don't get enough money from London, repeat to fade !!!!!.

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They don't

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

When we've had a few years of a Labour government and Wales is still rooted to the bottom of socio-economic indicators it may also make people wonder if perhaps the Welsh government doesn't also bear some responsibility for that.

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What happens if after 10 years of not being run by the Tories Wales improves ?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

What happens if after 10 years of not being run by the Tories Wales improves ?

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If Wales improves in line with other parts of the UK then we'll still be the poorest region. So I'd say that would be a green tick for Labour nationally but a red cross for Welsh Labour.

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

If Wales improves in line with other parts of the UK then we'll still be the poorest region. So I'd say that would be a green tick for Labour nationally but a red cross for Welsh Labour.

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The question is if the majority of people think that Welsh Labour is the best of the bunch .....and clearly they have since 1997 ......then apart from pressurising the government down the bay to improve I think that's the way it is

I think that some of Welsh Labour are absolutely second rate but until I have an alternative that's where my vote will be going

The sooner drakeford goes the better but as long as he or she has a pulse they are going to be better than Andrew rt Davies and the conservatives

And that's most people's opinion

I think independence is utterly laughable

Scotland would struggle and that's with far greater support within the population

Wales simply couldn't cope

People waving yes Cymru banners on poorly attended marches might think or dream we could go it alone but it's utter nonsense

Plaid have moments of popularity and some of their policies are excellent but they are inherently pro independence and have been rejected on that platform time after time

The likes of Adam Price and Leanne Wood come and go but they are a fringe party and would be great as a part of an anti Conservative coalition ......and if I had to I would vote for them to keep the Tories out locally or nationally

It is absolutely mental how shite the Welsh Govt is really. That doesn't let Westminster, local councils or the EU (before we left) off the hook of course, but Is there anything within their competencies that we excel at? Anything at all?

Another day and now tourism is criticised.

5% of the population. Nearly 10% of the landmass, yet only 2% of foreign tourism spend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66171190

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

What happens if after 10 years of not being run by the Tories Wales improves ?

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Were you not around when Blair invaded Iraq, Brown sold all the gold for peanuts, initiated PFI debt on any hospital or school that wanted some work done. Maybe forgot about the "loose hand on the financial regs", introduced the student tuition fees, wanted as many people to come into the country, the get them from anywhere memo.

Regardless of all this - Wales under Welsh Labour was still rubbish on just about every level.

Just heard an interview with our glorious leader the FM of Wales defending the fact that Welsh Assembly Health Minister Vaughan Gething admitting in Parliament that he hadnt read the pandemic plan strategy here it is

Attachment 5674

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

When we've had a few years of a Labour government and Wales is still rooted to the bottom of socio-economic indicators it may also make people wonder if perhaps the Welsh government doesn't also bear some responsibility for that.

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we had 11 years of Labour running the Westminster show and in that time Wales fell further behind in just about every socio-economic measure.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

we had 11 years of Labour running the Westminster show and in that time Wales fell further behind in just about every socio-economic measure.

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You are wasting your time here , trying mention things like to Sludge and Co .... weve had 26 years of Labour at the Welsh Assembly / Senedd. A one party failed state. at least in Westminster over the last 25 years - we have had 13 years of Labour under Blair / Brown and about the same amount of time under Conservatives. I would add they have had a tougher set of circumstances - Brexit - Covid - Ukraine and all the sh1t that is the outcome of it.

I can almost see the Conservatives doing a 'Labour' - award massive pay rises to everyone in the public sector , open the flood gates on small bolats - lose the election and then give Starma a letter saying all the moneys gone - a complete reversal of what happened to them in 2010.

As for Labour down the Bay - they are there for life - as most in Wales cant bring themselves to vote for anyone else than the red flag. Shame but there you go.

Plaid need to step up and offer an alternative.

There is no alternative. Anyone voting for Arty and co needs sectioning.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Plaid need to step up and offer an alternative.

There is no alternative. Anyone voting for Arty and co needs sectioning.

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Plaid feck right off

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Originally Posted by pipster

You are wasting your time here , trying mention things like to Sludge and Co .... weve had 26 years of Labour at the Welsh Assembly / Senedd. A one party failed state. at least in Westminster over the last 25 years - we have had 13 years of Labour under Blair / Brown and about the same amount of time under Conservatives. I would add they have had a tougher set of circumstances - Brexit - Covid - Ukraine and all the sh1t that is the outcome of it.

I can almost see the Conservatives doing a 'Labour' - award massive pay rises to everyone in the public sector , open the flood gates on small bolats - lose the election and then give Starma a letter saying all the moneys gone - a complete reversal of what happened to them in 2010.

As for Labour down the Bay - they are there for life - as most in Wales cant bring themselves to vote for anyone else than the red flag. Shame but there you go.

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Of course you would say the Tories had been dealt a bad hand ......because you are a raving blue faced conservative

You can try and deny it all day but you are better off living in Surrey or Sussex

It must annoy you so much that you are impotent politically

Never mind

Millions of people in England who hate your conservatives but have to put up with huge majorities where people like you vote for the twats feel the same

Suck it up

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Originally Posted by pipster

Were you not around when Blair invaded Iraq, Brown sold all the gold for peanuts, initiated PFI debt on any hospital or school that wanted some work done. Maybe forgot about the "loose hand on the financial regs", introduced the student tuition fees, wanted as many people to come into the country, the get them from anywhere memo.

Regardless of all this - Wales under Welsh Labour was still rubbish on just about every level.

Just heard an interview with our glorious leader the FM of Wales defending the fact that Welsh Assembly Health Minister Vaughan Gething admitting in Parliament that he hadnt read the pandemic plan strategy here it is

Attachment 5674

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Iraq was nothing to do with me

I marched in Cardiff and London against it

Your conservatives got Blair through on that

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Of course you would say the Tories had been dealt a bad hand ......because you are a raving blue faced conservative

You can try and deny it all day but you are better off living in Surrey or Sussex

It must annoy you so much that you are impotent politically

Never mind

Millions of people in England who hate your conservatives but have to put up with huge majorities where people like you vote for the twats feel the same

Suck it up

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Fancy that - democracy in action - an election , everyone gets a vote , each area elects an MP.

This is the cue for you to drone on about PR - even though we had a referendum on PR and the vote in favour of PR was lost.

Time for you to suck up your own rhetoric Sludge.

ps I live in Canton - the home of the champagne left winger head quarters - or chapter arts as it's known. My MP is Kevin "White Goods from Ikea" Brennan. As a local MP - he is quite effective on local matters - as a politician - he is just another follower of whatever the chief whip tells him (which is the same as the conservatives and all parties )

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Originally Posted by pipster

Fancy that - democracy in action - an election , everyone gets a vote , each area elects an MP.

This is the cue for you to drone on about PR - even though we had a referendum on PR and the vote in favour of PR was lost.

Time for you to suck up your own rhetoric Sludge.

ps I live in Canton - the home of the champagne left winger head quarters - or chapter arts as it's known. My MP is Kevin "White Goods from Ikea" Brennan. As a local MP - he is quite effective on local matters - as a politician - he is just another follower of whatever the chief whip tells him (which is the same as the conservatives and all parties )

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So ......you are happy to accept democracy in posh parts of England where they stick a blue rosette on a donkey ........and they vote it in

Yet here , where thankfully we mostly reject the tory filth ....apart from creeps like you .....you don't like it !

Up yours x

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So ......you are happy to accept democracy in posh parts of England where they stick a blue rosette on a donkey ........and they vote it in

Yet here , where thankfully we mostly reject the tory filth ....apart from creeps like you .....you don't like it !

Up yours x

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Tory filth?

Can you at least try to not inject your own hatred into threads? It doesn't help you make your points

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Tory filth?

Can you at least try to not inject your own hatred into threads? It doesn't help you make your points

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I am not trying to make points

I don't want to debate with Tories

I want them to piss off

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I am not trying to make points

I don't want to debate with Tories

I want them to piss off

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It's hard not to view you as something of a fascist with a concerniny and extreme position who uses violent language often.

Do you write the kind of things you put on here to MPs themselves using that kind of language?

This morning alone alone you have written 'tory filth' and started a thread about a 'tory bitch'.

It's actually pretty disturbing in all honesty.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's hard not to view you as something of a fascist with a concerniny and extreme position who uses violent language often.

Do you write the kind of things you put on here to MPs themselves using that kind of language?

This morning alone alone you have written 'tory filth' and started a thread about a 'tory bitch'.

It's actually pretty disturbing in all honesty.

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I think Sludge is the sort that will one day get a knock on the door for his online activities.

Cant debate, cant articulate, cant reason and cant answer a simple question like when did the UK have a truly Socialist Govt in Westminster.

He thinks Starma is Tory light and thinks (a true Socialist) like Corbyn is a cock.... This is like trying to have a grown up conversation with the local village idiot. Not worth the effort on any level.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's hard not to view you as something of a fascist with a concerniny and extreme position who uses violent language often.

Do you write the kind of things you put on here to MPs themselves using that kind of language?

This morning alone alone you have written 'tory filth' and started a thread about a 'tory bitch'.

It's actually pretty disturbing in all honesty.

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If its disturbing to you , that's great

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Originally Posted by pipster

I think Sludge is the sort that will one day get a knock on the door for his online activities.

Cant debate, cant articulate, cant reason and cant answer a simple question like when did the UK have a truly Socialist Govt in Westminster.

He thinks Starma is Tory light and thinks (a true Socialist) like Corbyn is a cock.... This is like trying to have a grown up conversation with the local village idiot. Not worth the effort on any level.

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That's exactly what several posters have told me about you and your tory stiff at large Mt whales

I think you are mistaking can't debate ........with .....not interested in debating anything at all with tory filth

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If its disturbing to you , that's great

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Do you send letters and emails to Councillors, MPs etc calling them Tory Filth, Tory bitch etc, or is it just on here you think that's normal behaviour?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Do you send letters and emails to Councillors, MPs etc calling them Tory Filth, Tory bitch etc, or is it just on here you think that's normal behaviour?

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I just don't vote for the twats

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Do you send letters and emails to Councillors, MPs etc calling them Tory Filth, Tory bitch etc, or is it just on here you think that's normal behaviour?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX194qxx1j0

Lamont was a tory clown and this is normal behaviour

I laugh my ass off watching that

I think your only concern about liz Truss is the word Tory

She's the epitome of greed and if you don't think so send her a message

One from the troops , as it were

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX194qxx1j0

Lamont was a tory clown and this is normal behaviour

I laugh my ass off watching that

I think your only concern about liz Truss is the word Tory

She's the epitome of greed and if you don't think so send her a message

One from the troops , as it were

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No the issue is you and your desire to use bigoted, borderline violent language to try and derail every thread going.

The reason I asked earlier if you send anonymous threatening letters to MPs etc is because the way you talk on here is exactly how the kind of people who do such things would likely behave online.

The irony is you think you bring people round to your view.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

No the issue is you and your desire to use bigoted, borderline violent language to try and derail every thread going.

The reason I asked earlier if you send anonymous threatening letters to MPs etc is because the way you talk on here is exactly how the kind of people who do such things would likely behave online.

The irony is you think you bring people round to your view.

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Shut up you big tart

I am deffo a danger to tory mps and I deffo think you should write to all of them to warn them so they can force me out of hiding

You utter cockwomble

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Shut up you big tart

I am deffo a danger to tory mps and I deffo think you should write to all of them to warn them so they can force me out of hiding

You utter cockwomble

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You are a danger to Tory MPs?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

You are a danger to Tory MPs?

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Feck me you are more stupid and ill than those you berate

Phone up the police , quick

When they arrive turn yourself in

You are off your rocker

I think you may be a danger to tory mps though ......hanging around at party conferences like all the other Maggie lovers used to do , trying to get autographs and knicker sets