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Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Our idiot will be next :facepalm:
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
She keeps on about “you’re voting NO, but you mean YES”
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
The difference between us and them is there is a very strong independence movement , backed up by votes , in Scotland
Thankfully , from my point of view it's not the same here
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
I love this Phil Bennett quote..
Look what these bastards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
If this vote goes ahead, I think the Scots will vote to leave the union. Can’t say I blame them.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
I’m not sure independence would work out better for Scotland compared to being in the UK but I don’t see why people are so up in arms about them holding a second referendum 10 years after the previous one. We’ve had 3 general elections in that time and there’s a not insignificant chance we’ll have had a 4th before the next Scottish Referendum.
Considering how much has changed since the last vote (mainly Brexit) why shouldn’t the 600,000 new people now of voting age since the last vote not get a say in their future?
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
I’m not sure independence would work out better for Scotland compared to being in the UK but I don’t see why people are so up in arms about them holding a second referendum 10 years after the previous one. We’ve had 3 general elections in that time and there’s a not insignificant chance we’ll have had a 4th before the next Scottish Referendum.
Considering how much has changed since the last vote (mainly Brexit) why shouldn’t the 600,000 new people now of voting age since the last vote not get a say in their future?
They want to join the EU, and still take their pensions from the UK governments pot?
They'd be bancrupt in ten years!
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
subservient bootlickers and their views eh
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Our idiot will be next :facepalm:
Maybe it was prompted by that kent of a bloke in Westminster saying he wants to stay power well into the 2030 - w22ker that he is
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
They want to join the EU, and still take their pensions from the UK governments pot?
They'd be bancrupt in ten years!
Surely if they've paid their NI into the UK pot, they should be entitled to it?
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
If i was Scottish, i’d rather take a gamble on independence, than be continually governed by the Conservatives.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The difference between us and them is there is a very strong independence movement , backed up by votes , in Scotland
Thankfully , from my point of view it's not the same here
I can quite understand that, in terms of the union, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland have far less power, even combined, than England has on its own. In essence we are governed by England, given money to spend by England, England tells us what we can decide for ourselves in the Senedd. Politically, England is far different to the other countries and there's barely been an election where the votes of the other countries has made a difference. Some will say that England, being by far the biggest country, should have most of the power and say, but it's also understandable that some in Scotland and Wales will want more control over their countries.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I can quite understand that, in terms of the union, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland have far less power, even combined, than England has on its own. In essence we are governed by England, given money to spend by England, England tells us what we can decide for ourselves in the Senedd. Politically, England is far different to the other countries and there's barely been an election where the votes of the other countries has made a difference. Some will say that England, being by far the biggest country, should have most of the power and say, but it's also understandable that some in Scotland and Wales will want more control over their countries.
I dont think that you quite grasp how a general election works. The votes in all four countries aren't separate, they are all added together to give an overall result for the whole of the UK. Hence the term ‘general’. It always makes me laugh when people like Nichola Sturgeon or Mark Drakeford come on tv after a general election and claim that Wales chose to be governed by Labour and rejects the Tories or Scotland voted for independance because their parties got more seats in their particular area. Er no ….. its not a country by country vote. The whole of the UK is split into constituencies and the WHOLE of the UK decides who governs the WHOLE of the UK. Thats what democracy is. Each country is then given some additional powers to run itself via assemblies voted for by the people of each country but what is devolved is decided centrally by the Government that the whole of the UK voted in. Simple really but some people don't like it.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Can't we just invade them now, isn't that the in thing.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
I dont think that you quite grasp how a general election works. The votes in all four countries aren't separate, they are all added together to give an overall result for the whole of the UK. Hence the term ‘general’. It always makes me laugh when people like Nichola Sturgeon or Mark Drakeford come on tv after a general election and claim that Wales chose to be governed by Labour and rejects the Tories or Scotland voted for independance because their parties got more seats in their particular area. Er no ….. its not a country by country vote. The whole of the UK is split into constituencies and the WHOLE of the UK decides who governs the WHOLE of the UK. Thats what democracy is. Each country is then given some additional powers to run itself via assemblies voted for by the people of each country but what is devolved is decided centrally by the Government that the whole of the UK voted in. Simple really but some people don't like it.
I think the point is that if those countries were independant they could get a government that reflects the wishes of their populations, rather than one that is foisted on them by people in the south east of England.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
I dont think that you quite grasp how a general election works. The votes in all four countries aren't separate, they are all added together to give an overall result for the whole of the UK. Hence the term ‘general’. It always makes me laugh when people like Nichola Sturgeon or Mark Drakeford come on tv after a general election and claim that Wales chose to be governed by Labour and rejects the Tories or Scotland voted for independance because their parties got more seats in their particular area. Er no ….. its not a country by country vote. The whole of the UK is split into constituencies and the WHOLE of the UK decides who governs the WHOLE of the UK. Thats what democracy is. Each country is then given some additional powers to run itself via assemblies voted for by the people of each country but what is devolved is decided centrally by the Government that the whole of the UK voted in. Simple really but some people don't like it.
To be fair, that's not how a general election works either.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
I think the point is that if those countries were independant they could get a government that reflects the wishes of their populations, rather than one that is foisted on them by people in the south east of England.
Well said. Also true of the Brexit vote and Northern Ireland, where 56% of the population voted remain and look at the mess that's since caused.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
I dont think that you quite grasp how a general election works. The votes in all four countries aren't separate, they are all added together to give an overall result for the whole of the UK. Hence the term ‘general’. It always makes me laugh when people like Nichola Sturgeon or Mark Drakeford come on tv after a general election and claim that Wales chose to be governed by Labour and rejects the Tories or Scotland voted for independance because their parties got more seats in their particular area. Er no ….. its not a country by country vote. The whole of the UK is split into constituencies and the WHOLE of the UK decides who governs the WHOLE of the UK. Thats what democracy is. Each country is then given some additional powers to run itself via assemblies voted for by the people of each country but what is devolved is decided centrally by the Government that the whole of the UK voted in. Simple really but some people don't like it.
You are correct that the whole of the UK decides who governs the whole of the UK. I haven't suggested anything else.
I will repeat myself as you seem a bit slow on the uptake here, but if you looked at virtually any general election over the last 100 years or more, took away the votes from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, the overall result would have remained unchanged, meaning the overall vote from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has not mattered in the grand scheme of things.
You clearly aren't interested in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland having more of a say in how they run their own countries. To you, we're all one UK. That's fair enough, it's up to you. But surely you can see why those in the smaller countries don't think that set up works best for them in terms.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Gnojek
Well said. Also true of the Brexit vote and Northern Ireland, where 56% of the population voted remain and look at the mess that's since caused.
I think I calculated that, as long as England's voters voted 55% for either one of the outcomes, the rest of the UK's voters could have voted 100% the opposite way and still lost.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Be a disaster when they leave and the SNP after realising their only real aim and policy disintegrate quicker than ukip.
Echo chamber up there, similar to Welsh labour here. All start believing their own BS.
At least in Westminster you have two parties who go at it, call each other out, generally provide balance even if they are both shit.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
I’m not sure independence would work out better for Scotland compared to being in the UK but I don’t see why people are so up in arms about them holding a second referendum 10 years after the previous one. We’ve had 3 general elections in that time and there’s a not insignificant chance we’ll have had a 4th before the next Scottish Referendum.
Considering how much has changed since the last vote (mainly Brexit) why shouldn’t the 600,000 new people now of voting age since the last vote not get a say in their future?
Last referendum was 8yrs ago. Was once in a generation. A generation isn't 8,9,10yrs, it's a lot longer. If they had another now and lost, a few years down the line they'd want another, and another until it won. Similar to Wales who won the Assembly vote with 51%. If that had been 49% we would have kept having further referendums until it won. Once in, we never get another vote to scrap them unfortunately.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I think I calculated that, as long as England's voters voted 55% for either one of the outcomes, the rest of the UK's voters could have voted 100% the opposite way and still lost.
I’m sure i read somewhere that Scotland are the only country in history, to have voted no when given the chance of independence. Not sure if that’s correct though.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Trigger
B
At least in Westminster you have two parties who go at it, call each other out, generally provide balance even if they are both shit.
All about opinions, but in my view the SNP have been a far more effective opposition in Westminster than Labour has (despite being only the biggest of the rest and not having Labour's opportunities).
That applied under Corbyn, and much more so under Starmer.
I wish that wasn't so, as a former Labour member (a card carrying member for most of my adult life).
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Surely if they've paid their NI into the UK pot, they should be entitled to it?
No it's paid for by the current tax payers, they've had back what they paid in already if they leave then it stops.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Talksport
Last referendum was 8yrs ago. Was once in a generation. A generation isn't 8,9,10yrs, it's a lot longer. If they had another now and lost, a few years down the line they'd want another, and another until it won. Similar to Wales who won the Assembly vote with 51%. If that had been 49% we would have kept having further referendums until it won. Once in, we never get another vote to scrap them unfortunately.
We should all be allowed to vote, everyone would vote to make leave and fail, as long as we build a wall to keep EU workers out!
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Trigger
Can't we just invade them now, isn't that the in thing.
the romans tried and failed...you think a piss poor fat cnut like boris tardo johnson can do better?
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Re-Reworked
subservient bootlickers and their views eh
:thumbup:
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
Do you think that if the leader of the SNP was male they'd get as many ad hominem attacks?
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Trigger
Be a disaster when they leave and the SNP after realising their only real aim and policy disintegrate quicker than ukip.
Echo chamber up there, similar to Welsh labour here. All start believing their own BS.
At least in Westminster you have two parties who go at it, call each other out, generally provide balance even if they are both shit.
Know much about the SNP i see.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
This is a strange situation. A large majority of the population have rePEATEDLY voted in the SNP, who have gone on to make an absolute pigs ear of governing Scotland. Health, Education, transport - it's all a complete shambles, and all running at a huge deficit. It is only the UK Government that is bailing them out. So what happens if they go independent, and EVERYTHING has to come through England to get there? There's enough problems with Northern Ireland, without adding to the mix. But all this banging on the independence drum tends to hide the debacle they have made of managing Scotland. And if we're honest, things are very similar here in Wales.
As much as we like the idea of independence, neither Scotland nor Wales could afford to maintain their current living standards, and people would start to leave. Let's be fair - they already do. Now imagine it much worse. Close to 50% of Welsh jobs are state funded - what happens to those? And who pays for them?
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
tforturton
This is a strange situation. A large majority of the population have rePEATEDLY voted in the SNP, who have gone on to make an absolute pigs ear of governing Scotland. Health, Education, transport - it's all a complete shambles, and all running at a huge deficit. It is only the UK Government that is bailing them out. So what happens if they go independent, and EVERYTHING has to come through England to get there? There's enough problems with Northern Ireland, without adding to the mix. But all this banging on the independence drum tends to hide the debacle they have made of managing Scotland. And if we're honest, things are very similar here in Wales.
As much as we like the idea of independence, neither Scotland nor Wales could afford to maintain their current living standards, and people would start to leave. Let's be fair - they already do. Now imagine it much worse. Close to 50% of Welsh jobs are state funded - what happens to those? And who pays for them?
From what i’ve read, the Scots would only be using the SNP as the force to gain independence. Once they gained it, the SNP would be voted out. Not sure who they’d vote in to pick up the batten though.
On a side note, you’ve made it sound as though Scotland and us should just be called Northern England and Eastern England. 😂
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
I hope Ms. Sturgeon doesn't make the same mistake as David Cameron did with the Brexit referendum. She needs to set a minimum of two-thirds majority for independence*. A 51:49 result would be a disaster, with the country split down the middle with animosity for years to come.
*She won't of course as the opinion polls show it will be a very close run thing.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
No it's paid for by the current tax payers, they've had back what they paid in already if they leave then it stops.
How have they had it back?
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
For all the infantile name calling in the original post, Sturgeon is probably the most effective and successful politician in the UK. It is certainly ironic that the Leader of the Party North Cardiff Blue seems to hold most dear is her most effective recruitment Sergeant.
On the once in a generation point, there is a legitimate challenge that the Brexit vote of a pro-EU Scotland changed the dynamic. That said, the things that made it fail in the first place have not gone away. I also think the Brexit situation will make it fall on its face. A customs and people border with England, really?
The EU has probably had enough of the UK and would rather get on with its own challenges without opening up something with a fledgling state. My guess is that Moldova and Albania would be quicker to the pass than Scotland.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
Talksport
Last referendum was 8yrs ago. Was once in a generation. A generation isn't 8,9,10yrs, it's a lot longer. If they had another now and lost, a few years down the line they'd want another, and another until it won. Similar to Wales who won the Assembly vote with 51%. If that had been 49% we would have kept having further referendums until it won. Once in, we never get another vote to scrap them unfortunately.
“Once in a generation” is just a catchphrase though, there’s no binding agreement that means Scotland needs to wait 20 years between votes. If the result next year is Independence then surely it was the right time to hold a vote as enough time had past that a considerable portion of the population had changed their mind and wanted change.
As for a vote on the Senedd, there was an Abolish the Welsh Assembly party that won no seats and got a tiny percentage of the vote, ~3% if I recall.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I’m sure i read somewhere that Scotland are the only country in history, to have voted no when given the chance of independence. Not sure if that’s correct though.
I think Quebec have voted against independence from Canada
I don't really understand some of the hostile stuff toward the SNP in this thread, there's been huge upheaval since the 2014 referendum which has rendered some of the "No" campaign's main arguments obsolete, if they want another referendum let them have it
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
I cant listen to the lady ..
She us worse than Boris in debt every year ,scandals , poor management of thier government..
What better tactic to adopt than Boris's make headlines elsewhere about crap and ingore domestic issues , now Covid has gone First Minsters are anonymous..
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
I've read somewhere that if the vote goes ahead then the unionists will, as a protest, encourage their supporters not to vote anyway. Thus making the independence victory irrelevant.
Whether the vote will be legally binding has yet to be decided. Sturgeon needs the go ahead from Westminster (which she probably won't get) but will try to get that through the Supreme Court.
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Re: Wee Jimmy Krankie is off again
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
I cant listen to the lady ..
She us worse than Boris in debt every year ,scandals , poor management of thier government..
What better tactic to adopt than Boris's make headlines elsewhere about crap and ingore domestic issues , now Covid has gone First Minsters are anonymous..
Worse than Johnson? You’re kidding me. Johnson’s corruption and lying is on an industrial scale.