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NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
If the Tories go in again in May, the death knell for the NHS will reach a crescendo.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Looks like the procurement process is in Alcatel, so nobody involved in the bid should be disclosing information. Just because the NHS were cheaper is irrelevant. We don't know what the award criteria were, price would only be one. Chances are they scored badly on the others.
Nothing to see here. Yet
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:11
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:11
Wrong thread.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:03
Don't you worry about it Colonel, they only have our best interests at heart. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/Dsmile.gif
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:19
Our generation is ballsing it all up in one fell swoop.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
You want a new car? There was a bloke in Caerphilly earlier giving one away.
Won't start mind you
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:25
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:19
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:03
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.
r u saying "get th toffe faces out", if so I agre it time now to man the boardes an stop forernors cumin in.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:13
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:31
Holy crap
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:13
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:11
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:33
Holy crap
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:31
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:13
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:11
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
Could you share your understanding please?
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:25
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:19
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:03
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.
Having experienced a number of recessions I don't think it's that linear or that simple. And although I am very pro-NHS, tenders I have been involved in (albeit on a very superficial level) are not just about price.I think we need to know more than just headlines here.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:35
Holy crap
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:33
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:31
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:13
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:11
Could you share your understanding please?
Pm sent
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:38
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:25
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:19
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:03
100% correct.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:47
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:38
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:25
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:19
Don't you worry about it Colonel, they only have our best interests at heart.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/Dsmile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:03
Every generation that preceded us made the country better for their children.
Yeah, I'm sure it'll be fine.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:46
Holy crap
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:35
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:33
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:31
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:13
Could you share your understanding please?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:11
Pm sent
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:08
Looks like the procurement process is in Alcatel, so nobody involved in the bid should be disclosing information. Just because the NHS were cheaper is irrelevant. We don't know what the award criteria were, price would only be one. Chances are they scored badly on the others.
Probably profits for Tory donors and/or relatives and friends.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:59
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Are you a Freemason too? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:59
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Hmm, I don't doubt your credentials on this but I don't trust the law when it involves this kind of money.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:35
Holy crap
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:33
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:31
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:13
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tim Muff wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:11
Could you share your understanding please?
When comparing public sector tenders price is only one factor when scoring. You could be best on price but worst on every other factor and as such not be awarded the contract.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:59
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Well the law is an ass then.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:36
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:59
Well the law is an ass then.
Nothing more to be said.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
I fecking despair at times.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluteus Maximus wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 01:16
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:59
I reckon it's all above board
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:12
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
It is a fact that a private firm would have the aim to maximise profit. The aim of this privatisation (I know - an exaggeration but still) is to provide competition but as far as I am concerned, the NHS is built on a system of collaboration and specialisation (ie via Centres of Excellence) than by competition. This privatisation is fragmenting the NHS and leading to a leekage of public money.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:26
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluteus Maximus wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 01:16
Are you a Freemason too?
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:59
TH63 knows what he's about on this. It's nothing to do with Tories, or Labour for that matter, more to do with Europe
If more info is given out, then I will change my position appropriately. I am just commenting using the info given, so it may not be 100% accurate.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:06
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:12
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
the days must fly by reading such fascinating literature http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by packerman wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:11
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:06
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:12
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46
I fecking despair at times.
Ain't too long: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/257/pdfs/uksi_201302 57_en.pdf
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:26
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluteus Maximus wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 01:16
Are you a Freemason too?
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:59
TH63 knows what he's about on this. It's nothing to do with Tories, or Labour for that matter, more to do with Europe
Am I being too cynical?
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:06
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:12
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
One final point, are you aware BUPA, as an example, is a non profit making organisation and that any surplus generated will be reinvested into providing healthcare. Private sector does not have to mean profit making.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
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Originally Posted by Igovernor wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:29
Not the only contract
Then I take back my "discrimination" claims.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:36
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:26
Are you a Freemason too?
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluteus Maximus wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 01:16
TH63 knows what he's about on this. It's nothing to do with Tories, or Labour for that matter, more to do with Europe
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:59
If a public contract is worth around £100K a year or more it has to go out to EUROPEAN tender.
When the NHS buys goods it cannot reclaim VAT. When it buys a service ( as in this case) it can reclaim the 20% VAT. In practice this can make private bids effectively 20% cheaper than they seem when this is considered. It has lead to a growth in private companies being involved in supplying services to the NHS
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
I've worked on a NHS tender (getting companies to bid on a service on behalf of the NHS)- there are various factors involved some of which were :-
Service Delivery Times - including any penalty clauses
Total Cost of Ownership - which included the cost of machinery as well as total staff costs - including NI, pension etc
Plus there were economies of scale to be achieved - alot of the tasks could be automated with software tools the NHS did not currently use or have skills in.
Without knowing the exact criteria that was set here - no one knows the exact answer - which is why you have people reacting to the headline rather than the factual detail
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:42
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:06
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:12
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46
I fecking despair at times.
I did say that the comparison is not 100% accurate though. I think that with public services, there should be more transparency and the people should be involved more in decision making.
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Re: NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
The provision of healthcare is an exempt item for VAT. Any front end service provider would not charge or recover VAT.
See VAT 701/57