Let's get the f*** out - (part 2)

More grist to the mill: Charles Moore in the Telegraph.

"One of the most important features of the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy is that it allows voters to throw out one lot and put another in. This can never happen in the EU system. So the careers of the well-educated, unelected, “civilised” people who run the show are unimpeded by the will of the people.

Perhaps because I come from that class, I agree that a high education is a good thing and accept that societies must have their elites, but I also believe that the British genius has been to create a political system in which the common interest of the whole nation can be represented politically. This is impossible in the EU, where there is a ruling class on the one hand, and a sweaty mob (as the ruling class sees it), on the other. If you like that sort of system, when you contemplate your navel, you will vote to Remain.



Why should euro-officials pay less tax?

By far the best book setting out all European issues in topical form, is Why Leave? by Daniel Hannan, well known to readers of this paper. Hannan is crisp about how the interests of the above class are looked after in the Brussels set-up. More than a thousand EU officials earn more than David Cameron, and all officials working in EU institutions are exempt from national taxation. They pay a special EU income tax of 21 per cent. This rate is flat, so the richer you are, the better. British euro-officials who would have a top rate of 45 per cent here therefore pay less than half that. "

The 'Gravy Train' doesn't do it justice.

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/v...e-for-us-video

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

I also believe that the British genius has been to create a political system in which the common interest of the whole nation can be represented politically.

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That's hilarious!

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

More grist to the mill: Charles Moore in the Telegraph.

"One of the most important features of the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy is that it allows voters to throw out one lot and put another in. This can never happen in the EU system. So the careers of the well-educated, unelected, “civilised” people who run the show are unimpeded by the will of the people.

Perhaps because I come from that class, I agree that a high education is a good thing and accept that societies must have their elites, but I also believe that the British genius has been to create a political system in which the common interest of the whole nation can be represented politically. This is impossible in the EU, where there is a ruling class on the one hand, and a sweaty mob (as the ruling class sees it), on the other. If you like that sort of system, when you contemplate your navel, you will vote to Remain.



Why should euro-officials pay less tax?

By far the best book setting out all European issues in topical form, is Why Leave? by Daniel Hannan, well known to readers of this paper. Hannan is crisp about how the interests of the above class are looked after in the Brussels set-up. More than a thousand EU officials earn more than David Cameron, and all officials working in EU institutions are exempt from national taxation. They pay a special EU income tax of 21 per cent. This rate is flat, so the richer you are, the better. British euro-officials who would have a top rate of 45 per cent here therefore pay less than half that. "

The 'Gravy Train' doesn't do it justice.

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Much like the British parliamentary system

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

More grist to the mill: Charles Moore in the Telegraph.

"One of the most important features of the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy is that it allows voters to throw out one lot and put another in. This can never happen in the EU system. So the careers of the well-educated, unelected, “civilised” people who run the show are unimpeded by the will of the people.

Perhaps because I come from that class, I agree that a high education is a good thing and accept that societies must have their elites, but I also believe that the British genius has been to create a political system in which the common interest of the whole nation can be represented politically. This is impossible in the EU, where there is a ruling class on the one hand, and a sweaty mob (as the ruling class sees it), on the other. If you like that sort of system, when you contemplate your navel, you will vote to Remain.



Why should euro-officials pay less tax?

By far the best book setting out all European issues in topical form, is Why Leave? by Daniel Hannan, well known to readers of this paper. Hannan is crisp about how the interests of the above class are looked after in the Brussels set-up. More than a thousand EU officials earn more than David Cameron, and all officials working in EU institutions are exempt from national taxation. They pay a special EU income tax of 21 per cent. This rate is flat, so the richer you are, the better. British euro-officials who would have a top rate of 45 per cent here therefore pay less than half that. "

The 'Gravy Train' doesn't do it justice.

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Not strictly true though, is it? We saw circa a million march against the Iraq War but those who became disillusioned with Tony Blair could only vote out Gordon Brown. British democracy is not strong enough to make the case on the lack of democratic responsibility of the EU (at least without additional comments) and leaving us with Boris Johnson and co forming what the country will look like post-EU is enough for any individual in favour of democracy shaking in their boots.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/v...e-for-us-video

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The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) has nothing to do with the European Union, we should be staying in the ECHR and leaving the EU not the other way around like Theresa May is suggesting, bad enough being stuck in the EU but being stuck in the EU with no human rights? I honestly dread to think what my kids future would be like if that were to happen, she said “We are confident that we can replace the Human Rights Act with a bill of rights" I definitely don't share that confidence and I definitely don't trust them to create a decent bill of rights.

"...leaving us with Boris Johnson and co forming what the country will look like post-EU is enough for any individual in favour of democracy shaking in their boots."

Eh? You need have no worries about "Boris Johnson and co" imposing a democracy. I think your worries would start if we were insane enough to let Corbyn and McDonnell anywhere near the reins of power. Socialists like to control every aspect of life. I look forward to the day we have Boris Johnson in no. 10 replacing the dreadful Cameron. I live in London and Boris has been an excellent Mayor. Beneath that buffoonish exterior is a very shrewd operator who knows the value of things and detests waste and corruption. He'd be a brilliant PM. VOTE LEAVE! And later on, Vote Boris. There, I've persuaded you.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

That's hilarious!

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You need to experience living in a totalitarian country.

Have you feck

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

You need to experience living in a totalitarian country.

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Stay in London you festering jack xenophobic lemon

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Stay in London you festering jack xenophobic lemon

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Can you point out where he was being xenophobic?

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Here is a very interesting interview by Owen Jones with Daniel Hannan and well worth a watch all the way through
(I never knew that Tony Benn voted to remain out of Europe back in the 70's)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1fNkj5i0LM

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I really enjoyed that. Hannan is a very impressive thinker and speaker - I must get his book. Jones is a very good......listener.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Stay in London you festering jack xenophobic lemon

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I take it you are without prejudice?

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R

Can you point out where he was being xenophobic?

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Him or the well known xenophobic Charles Moore

You are not that mashed NZ , surely

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

I take it you are without prejudice?

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I love everyone except jacks , who move to London and complain about free movement

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I love everyone except jacks , who move to London and complain about free movement

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Bit xenophobic mate?

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

"...leaving us with Boris Johnson and co forming what the country will look like post-EU is enough for any individual in favour of democracy shaking in their boots."

Eh? You need have no worries about "Boris Johnson and co" imposing a democracy. I think your worries would start if we were insane enough to let Corbyn and McDonnell anywhere near the reins of power. Socialists like to control every aspect of life. I look forward to the day we have Boris Johnson in no. 10 replacing the dreadful Cameron. I live in London and Boris has been an excellent Mayor. Beneath that buffoonish exterior is a very shrewd operator who knows the value of things and detests waste and corruption. He'd be a brilliant PM. VOTE LEAVE! And later on, Vote Boris. There, I've persuaded you.

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I live in London and this is complete rubbish :hehe:

Boris's main project the night tube is over 6 months late and was never even close to being ready. The clown blamed it all on the strikes as you'd expect too.

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) has nothing to do with the European Union, we should be staying in the ECHR and leaving the EU not the other way around like Theresa May is suggesting, bad enough being stuck in the EU but being stuck in the EU with no human rights? I honestly dread to think what my kids future would be like if that were to happen, she said “We are confident that we can replace the Human Rights Act with a bill of rights" I definitely don't share that confidence and I definitely don't trust them to create a decent bill of rights.

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If we leave the EU leaving the ECHR will follow immediately, anyone thinking any different is naive at best.

Voting out basically replaces the ECHR with a UK government (most likely Tory) bill of rights, any UK citizen voting for this is a turkey voting for Christmas.

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

I really enjoyed that. Hannan is a very impressive thinker and speaker - I must get his book. Jones is a very good......listener.

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Yes hes great, a big fan of Iain Duncan smith, about as sincere as a wet slap from big Betty from birchgrove

Bet he's spent time on benefits , you can tell by his accent

He's a neo con !

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Originally Posted by Steve R

Bit xenophobic mate?

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Whoosh alert

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Whoosh alert

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Watch it sonny.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I live in London and this is complete rubbish :hehe:

Boris's main project the night tube is over 6 months late and was never even close to being ready. The clown blamed it all on the strikes as you'd expect too.

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Detests waste and corruption , whilst mopping up being mayor of London lol

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Originally Posted by Steve R

Watch it sonny.

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Just because you have a penthouse view of Barry's sprawling waterfront don't come that with me

Can I borrow a few quid ? Dole cheque has run out

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Just because you have a penthouse view of Barry's sprawling waterfront don't come that with me

Can I borrow a few quid ? Dole cheque has run out

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The views are amazing

http://media.rightmove.co.uk/49k/488...MG_05_0000.jpg

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

If we leave the EU leaving the ECHR will follow immediately, anyone thinking any different is naive at best.

Voting out basically replaces the ECHR with a UK government (most likely Tory) bill of rights, any UK citizen voting for this is a turkey voting for Christmas.

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Voting out of what?
It's Theresa May that wants to leave ECHR and replace it with a bill of rights, regardless of the EU referendum result.

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

I really enjoyed that. Hannan is a very impressive thinker and speaker - I must get his book. Jones is a very good......listener.

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You're obviously easily impressed. He sits in a parliament (coining it in) he doesn't believe in. Surely the Einstein-brained one sees a slight contradiction.

He doesn't actually use any facts or logic either. It's all his own polemical BS.

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R

Voting out of what?
It's Theresa May that wants to leave ECHR and replace it with a bill of rights, regardless of the EU referendum result.

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Out of the EU, we'll leave the ECHR too

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Originally Posted by jackrabbit

More grist to the mill: Charles Moore in the Telegraph.

"One of the most important features of the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy is that it allows voters to throw out one lot and put another in. This can never happen in the EU system. So the careers of the well-educated, unelected, “civilised” people who run the show are unimpeded by the will of the people.

Perhaps because I come from that class, I agree that a high education is a good thing and accept that societies must have their elites, but I also believe that the British genius has been to create a political system in which the common interest of the whole nation can be represented politically. This is impossible in the EU, where there is a ruling class on the one hand, and a sweaty mob (as the ruling class sees it), on the other. If you like that sort of system, when you contemplate your navel, you will vote to Remain.



Why should euro-officials pay less tax?

By far the best book setting out all European issues in topical form, is Why Leave? by Daniel Hannan, well known to readers of this paper. Hannan is crisp about how the interests of the above class are looked after in the Brussels set-up. More than a thousand EU officials earn more than David Cameron, and all officials working in EU institutions are exempt from national taxation. They pay a special EU income tax of 21 per cent. This rate is flat, so the richer you are, the better. British euro-officials who would have a top rate of 45 per cent here therefore pay less than half that. "

The 'Gravy Train' doesn't do it justice.

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I'm not for one minute defending the whole eu thing but I'm pretty sure we get to vote in European elections in the same way that we get to vote in a general election?

A vote between one tosser and another granted, but still a vote.

My opinion on this is quite simple - as much as there's plenty to dislike about the eu, I Have the suspicion that giving the tories free reign to do what they like without the eu keeping them in check would create a far worse country for the ordinary people.

For that reason alone I think staying in is the lesser of two evils.

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Originally Posted by Dr Lecter

My opinion on this is quite simple - as much as there's plenty to dislike about the eu, I Have the suspicion that giving the tories free reign to do what they like without the eu keeping them in check would create a far worse country for the ordinary people.

For that reason alone I think staying in is the lesser of two evils.

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Very nicely put.

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Originally Posted by Dr Lecter

I'm not for one minute defending the whole eu thing but I'm pretty sure we get to vote in European elections in the same way that we get to vote in a general election?

A vote between one tosser and another granted, but still a vote.

My opinion on this is quite simple - as much as there's plenty to dislike about the eu, I Have the suspicion that giving the tories free reign to do what they like without the eu keeping them in check would create a far worse country for the ordinary people.

For that reason alone I think staying in is the lesser of two evils.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Agreed.

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Using Dr Lecs analogy, My opinion is that the Tories are a lesser evil and more importantly, can be voted out next time around where as, an out vote will not be an option every 5 years.

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Originally Posted by Nelsonca61

Using Dr Lecs analogy, My opinion is that the Tories are a lesser evil and more importantly, can be voted out next time around where as, an out vote will not be an option every 5 years.

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Good luck on the Tories being voted out in the near future, especially with the restructuring of the constituencies and possible Scottish independence.

This will be like the shoeing the lindems got all over again and then people realise they were keeping the Tories in check. Working class people (especially in Wales) voting to be governed by a pure Tory government is turkeys voting for Christmas just like at the last election it will probably happen though.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Good luck on the Tories being voted out in the near future, especially with the restructuring of the constituencies and possible Scottish independence.

This will be like the shoeing the lindems got all over again and then people realise they were keeping the Tories in check. Working class people (especially in Wales) voting to be governed by a pure Tory government is turkeys voting for Christmas just like at the last election it will probably happen though.

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It's colonel mustard, in the drawing room, with a piece of pipe.

Lead pipe not "piece" of pipe :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Lead pipe not "piece" of pipe :hehe:

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R

Voting out of what?
It's Theresa May that wants to leave ECHR and replace it with a bill of rights, regardless of the EU referendum result.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Out of the EU, we'll leave the ECHR too

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Can you link me to where you got that information from?
As far as I'm aware there are 47 countries who are signed up to ECHR and only 28 of those are part of the EU, It is a requirement of the EU to be part of the ECHR but not the other way around.

That's exactly what the hard right Tories have always wanted, we're having a referendum so Dave can keep them happy. What do you think will happen next?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

That's exactly what the hard right Tories have always wanted, we're having a referendum so Dave can keep them happy. What do you think will happen next?

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I was hoping you would link me to that information next. :biggrin:

Dominic Raab, a junior justice minister, said: “On the ECHR the government’s position remains clear. We cannot rule out withdrawal forever, but our forthcoming proposals do not include withdrawal from the convention"

Wait and see what happens, we will be under our own bill of rights within 5 years of leaving. It's obvious to anyone with slight knowledge of the subject that it's more than likely.

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Originally Posted by Dr Lecter

My opinion on this is quite simple - as much as there's plenty to dislike about the eu, I Have the suspicion that giving the tories free reign to do what they like without the eu keeping them in check would create a far worse country for the ordinary people.

For that reason alone I think staying in is the lesser of two evils.

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What makes you think that it's the EU keeping them in check? as much as I hate the tories they are the lesser of the two evils in this scenario as we can get rid of them after, that wont be the case with the EU, people are not thinking about this long term, it's almost like they have done it deliberately because they know nobody would want that dick head Boris in charge and will go for the only other option which is staying in to avoid that, on the other side you have Farage and his cronies giving the impression that anyone that wants to leave is a racist, it's absolutely perfect for them.

It's the EU that want to impose crap like this on us, Motorists could be charged for driving through ALL towns and cities under EU plans it will go through eventually because over 150 world leaders have signed up to the UN's sustainable development plans, it's a blueprint for taking control of everything to save the planet, eventually it will be only the wealthy that will be able to afford to travel as there will be carbon taxes on everything.

Can you explain to me how you think some bigwig in Brussels is voting on things in the interests of your family in Cardiff? there really is a simple answer to that, he isn't, does he care how long the waiting lists are for the NHS? nope, does he care that disabled people are getting less benefits? nope, we need to be making our own decisions, it's the only way to get what's best for our families imo.