Whittingham

I know this will be controversial because there are many Whitts lovers. I like him too, and he deserves great credit for what he has done for us in the past (Ever more distant past)

He has to go.

His presence (not his fault) is why we haven't had a midfield in the last 3 years.

Had he not been available, because he is never injured, we would have become a better team.

Now he's too slow to play wide. Until a rule to allow a player to come on to play set-pieces is implemented, he has no position in any top-level Championship team. And his set-pieces have become fairly hopeless.

Give him 20 yards of space and time to think, and he has a nice left foot. That's not enough. It's like playing with 10 men.

Sorry, he's been a great servant of the club and is a good footballer, but he is nowhere near what we need now, and he confuses managers.

:ayatollah:

u best be joking dog

100% agree, in fact if that decision was taken 2 years ago we may have been back in PL by now?

Should be the FIRST name on the teamsheet and the side built around him. !

The number of times he looked up yesterday and had no runners creating space was criminal.

He needs quality up front like a Bellers, Chopra, Vardy, someone of that ILK :hehe:, making runs and creating space.

Best player at the club by a country mile.

He's the Pirlo of the Championship. Just as Malone is the prince of leftbacks and Revell was Slade's best signing.

He needs players making runs off the ball, we don't have that at the moment

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Originally Posted by JKB

He's the Pirlo of the Championship. Just as Malone is the prince of leftbacks and Revell was Slade's best signing.

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He was pirloesque against Bolton in the second half against ten men. Given time and space there is no doubting his quality but he is too often anonymous these days - like he was on Saturday. Think he'd still make a good squad player for next season though

Just kick it down the middle mun.....

Wait for the loose ball for our hard man to get onto.


Dungeon football mentality.

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Originally Posted by jimmytaff

He was pirloesque against Bolton in the second half against ten men. Given time and space there is no doubting his quality but he is too often anonymous these days - like he was on Saturday. Think he'd still make a good squad player for next season though

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the rest of the players around him aren't good enough , he always looks for a pass rather than just hoofing it and hoping for the best , ifthere's nothing on he will pass it around the back to keep possession but he gets booed by fans for doing this

The number of times that he made space for himself yesterday, controlled the ball, looked up but had no bugger making a run. Some of his passing yesterday was, yet again, a joy to watch.

Past his peak, but every time he's been dropped, he's worked his way back into the side with some good performances. Perhaps managers have been to reluctant to drop him, but used more sparingly I'm sure he can still offer a lot.

Indeed it was.

One over his shoulder was lovely.

But we are not watching synchronised swimming. Where did any of his lovely passes get us?

This is the problem. He has no natural position any more, and has lost any spark.

:ayatollah:

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Originally Posted by rich munn

Indeed it was.

One over his shoulder was lovely.

But we are not watching synchronised swimming. Where did any of his lovely passes get us?

This is the problem. He has no natural position any more, and has lost any spark.

:ayatollah:

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Maybe it was playing for a dullard that affected him.

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Maybe it was playing for a dullard that affected him.

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He's been exactly the same under other managers. I understand your loyalty to him. Tony, because he has been a great player for CCFC, but no longer. Nowhere near good enough.

Give me an example of when we have won a match this season and he has has starred?

Ralls has had an average season but is much more important because when he picks the ball up he moves forward. Not sideways. Not wondering where his next Horlicks is coming from.

:ayatollah:

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Originally Posted by rich munn

He's been exactly the same under other managers. I understand your loyalty to him. Tony, because he has been a great player for CCFC, but no longer. Nowhere near good enough.

Give me an example of when we have won a match this season and he has has starred?

Ralls has had an average season but is much more important because when he picks the ball up he moves forward. Not sideways. Not wondering where his next Horlicks is coming from.

:ayatollah:

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Took bollox to take a last kick of the game penalty against Bolton

NEXT. :hehe:

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Originally Posted by rich munn

He's been exactly the same under other managers. I understand your loyalty to him. Tony, because he has been a great player for CCFC, but no longer. Nowhere near good enough.

Give me an example of when we have won a match this season and he has has starred?

Ralls has had an average season but is much more important because when he picks the ball up he moves forward. Not sideways. Not wondering where his next Horlicks is coming from.

:ayatollah:

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Ralls plays better when Whitts is on the pitch

Whittingham scored 6 (joint second) and assisted 7 (joint top)
Hasn't lost it yet

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Originally Posted by rich munn

Indeed it was.

One over his shoulder was lovely.

But we are not watching synchronised swimming. Where did any of his lovely passes get us?

This is the problem. He has no natural position any more, and has lost any spark.

:ayatollah:

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:thumbup: Agreed. His time is up. I understand and agree with much of what the pro whitts brigade are saying. But we need pace and steel in CM. He has neither.
Spedger

yet another post that demonstrates some city fans are devoid of any sense

I think our entire midfield needs a rethink.

On whose side are you? Your post doesn't disclose that!

And whichever side you are on, how about some argument in favour of it?

:ayatollah:

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Originally Posted by Sloop_Jon_Bee

:thumbup: Agreed. His time is up. I understand and agree with much of what the pro whitts brigade are saying. But we need pace and steel in CM. He has neither.
Spedger

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True.

But we also need players who can pass , shoot , cross and take set pieces and he can do all them as good as anyone in this league.

City need to build a side around witts passing ability and how many times did witts and immers link up and make space for pilks this season.

Whitts has never been blessed with pace, so he's hardly lost that has he's aged. What's different between now and when he was at his so-called 'peak', is the players he's playing with. As has been said above, he's got no willing runners and no-one to pick out a through ball with. He's probably been involved in more goals than any other player this season (either scoring or assisting) and can pick out passes that the rest of our midfield can't even see.

Joe Ralls is a decent player, but he is not Peter Whittingham. He will take at least 2, more often than not 3 touches before playing a pass.

It's the usual Cardiff fans being unable to appreciate someone not running around a lot, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by ccfcwelshlad

Whitts has never been blessed with pace, so he's hardly lost that has he's aged. What's different between now and when he was at his so-called 'peak', is the players he's playing with. As has been said above, he's got no willing runners and no-one to pick out a through ball with. He's probably been involved in more goals than any other player this season (either scoring or assisting) and can pick out passes that the rest of our midfield can't even see.

Joe Ralls is a decent player, but he is not Peter Whittingham. He will take at least 2, more often than not 3 touches before playing a pass.

It's the usual Cardiff fans being unable to appreciate someone not running around a lot, unfortunately.

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I'd build a team around Whitts, two ball winners in midfield either side of him and two speedy wingers and Whitts would be in his element
Best footballer at the club currently by a country mile

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Originally Posted by olderblue

I'd build a team around Whitts, two ball winners in midfield either side of him and two speedy wingers and Whitts would be in his element
Best footballer at the club currently by a country mile

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please take your common sense somewhere else

Seen him tonight with some of team inxluding our russ outside mocha lounge in town

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Originally Posted by rich munn

I know this will be controversial because there are many Whitts lovers. I like him too, and he deserves great credit for what he has done for us in the past (Ever more distant past)

He has to go.

His presence (not his fault) is why we haven't had a midfield in the last 3 years.

Had he not been available, because he is never injured, we would have become a better team.

Now he's too slow to play wide. Until a rule to allow a player to come on to play set-pieces is implemented, he has no position in any top-level Championship team. And his set-pieces have become fairly hopeless.

Give him 20 yards of space and time to think, and he has a nice left foot. That's not enough. It's like playing with 10 men.

Sorry, he's been a great servant of the club and is a good footballer, but he is nowhere near what we need now, and he confuses managers.

:ayatollah:

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Classic

:hehe:

PROS

Great vision
Top level set pieces, corners, penalties etc. Worth several points over a season
Never injured. Making his wages more worthwhile
Nice guy and model pro
Settled in the squad
Fans love him
Looks cool when he scores

CONS

You have to build the team around him because of limits to his game. Hence the lopsided 4-4-2 the past year
Slow
Not a good defender
Very inconsistent and can go missing in games often
Can't dribble past players
Conservative and flat movement in most games
Doesn't take games by the scruff of the neck when things aren't going our way
Old now so re-sale value diminishing

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Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

PROS

Great vision
Top level set pieces, corners, penalties etc. Worth several points over a season
Never injured. Making his wages more worthwhile
Nice guy and model pro
Settled in the squad
Fans love him
Looks cool when he scores

CONS

You have to build the team around him because of limits to his game. Hence the lopsided 4-4-2 the past year
Slow
Not a good defender
Very inconsistent and can go missing in games often
Can't dribble past players
Conservative and flat movement in most games
Doesn't take games by the scruff of the neck when things aren't going our way
Old now so re-sale value diminishing

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Excellent summary.
He's like marmite for most, either as good as Pele or as bad as Andy Kerr depending on which side of the fence you sit.

Truth is he's a very talented player with some glaring weaknesses.

I'd add the positive that he's cool under pressure and the negative that he can be bullied out of the match

He could be our Atletico Madrid Fernando Torres but fans are more interested in saying he's not the same player he was. 6 months til he's been here 10 years and you still can't see his changing value.

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Excellent summary.
He's like marmite for most, either as good as Pele or as bad as Andy Kerr depending on which side of the fence you sit.

Truth is he's a very talented player with some glaring weaknesses.

I'd add the positive that he's cool under pressure and the negative that he can be bullied out of the match

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Agree with your amendments. I can see it that whenever the time comes that Whitts loses his place in our first eleven, it will be because another player steps up and is able to provide the pros without the cons. If he progresses, Ralls possibly?

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Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

PROS

Great vision
Top level set pieces, corners, penalties etc. Worth several points over a season
Never injured. Making his wages more worthwhile
Nice guy and model pro
Settled in the squad
Fans love him
Looks cool when he scores

CONS

You have to build the team around him because of limits to his game. Hence the lopsided 4-4-2 the past year
Slow
Not a good defender
Very inconsistent and can go missing in games often
Can't dribble past players
Conservative and flat movement in most games
Doesn't take games by the scruff of the neck when things aren't going our way
Old now so re-sale value diminishing

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Agreed that his set pieces (not direct free kicks any more, sadly) are worth several points over a season.

However, how many points do you think he costs us due to the list of cons you accurately provide? I reckon it's as many as we gain from his set pieces.

At one point last season I suggested that the fact we were reliant on Whitts' delivery from set pieces actually causes us a problem when he doesn't play well. It's fine to score goals from set pieces but if the bloke who takes them is costing the team in open play and we don't look like scoring unless it's from a set piece, then is he worth his place in the side.

Never mind building the team around him, Whitts should be made captain. Head and shoulders the best player at the club and will lead by example.

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Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

PROS

Great vision sorry but his vision is not and never has been 'great'. He has been a very very good championship level player and that is by definition falling short of 'great'
Top level set pieces, corners, penalties etc. Worth several points over a season Sorry but he takes a decent corner because he is the corner taker not because its a football skill. Ive not heard any other fans anywhere, or pundits on TV talking about footballers corner taking 'skills' he almost never scores from set-pieces and im sure there are other players here who can taken penalties but Whitts is the senior player, so he does.
Never injured. Making his wages more worthwhile Its a great business model for the mundane that one
Nice guy and model pro i cant stand Joey Barton but a player like him would have been far better for the City over the past three years. Ronaldo is a knob head you know
Settled in the squad That might have a negative affect on the squad, he is nailed on even when he delivers little or nothing
Fans love him Immaterial
Looks cool when he scores now youre stretching it

CONS

You have to build the team around him because of limits to his game. Hence the lopsided 4-4-2 the past year
Slow we dont HAVE to
Not a good defender In his defence, 100 years ago when he was scoring 20 goals, he was not asked to defend, that he is now screams of a lack of managerial ability, not his fault this one
Very inconsistent and can go missing in games often that is an understatement
Can't dribble past players shouldnt have to, it was never his game
Conservative and flat movement in most games out of position, tired, no pace and slower to make decisions
Doesn't take games by the scruff of the neck when things aren't going our way he rarely, rarely has in the past four years
Old now so re-sale value diminishing we have got our moneys worth from him anyway, a great servant

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Controversially.................Whittingham has never been a GREAT player per se, rather a GREAT player for us and there is a big difference. There is no way a GREAT player would have spent most of his career at Cardiff City. Yes he is a loyal lad and its to be applauded but he would have been sold had there ever been enough money on the table, and, depending on where it was to, he would have gone.
He did, for three seasons or so, become a vital cog in the City machine, a free-scoring midfielder in the attacking mould. He has been here coming up to 10 years and has been our best player in a season for maybe 4 of them years, not, as people would have said on here, every year.
Ironically in our promotion year he was dropped because he started to struggle but for me the first signs, real signs of him on the wane were in the playoffs against West Ham where he was completely outlcassed and outran.

We use the word GREAT too often. Peter Whittingham was a great servant to this club but he has never been a GREAT player rather a very good chamopionship level player, albeit inconsistent.

There, i expect a bullet in the post.

This is for everyone - out of interest, how many goals do you think we should see from Whittingham in a season, assuming he plays the vast majority of fixtures?

I think we should be expecting at least 10 goals from him, even if he plays in centre midfield. Some will disagree strongly with me on this, I'm sure, but I have my reasoning.

He's got arguably the best left foot in the Championship. There is arguably no better finisher from outside the penalty area in the division. He can strike a ball with pace and high accuracy. He can deceive the best goalkeepers and has shown in his career he can find the net from ridiculous positions using an array of fantastic techniques and showing great imagination and creativity. We know how legendary his free kicks once were. For me his long range finishing can be put virtually in the same league as the likes of Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard.

Regardless of team instructions, he should be the heartbeat of the side, getting into positions outside the box and looking for shooting opportunities, rather than just another backwards pass. If he's playing in the middle it's all about the energy and desire to get up and down.

I reckon that it is his moments of brilliance and his amazing goals that define Peter Whittingham and while I'm not saying we should expect it week in, week out, it was those moments that carry him from being an average midfielder to one of the best at this level and even the Premier League.

Have you watched him plodding about recently?

Heartbeat? You must be joking.

:ayatollah:

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Originally Posted by rich munn

Have you watched him plodding about recently?

Heartbeat? You must be joking.

:ayatollah:

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:thumbup:

No offence to anybody, but why do people say no good anymore, get rid, etc, if we want to build our club then a man like Whitts should be involved in our future, maybe not as a player, but still with our club and playing staff in some capacity. We need to back players like this and show the loyalty that they have.