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Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...droid-motorola
Well, there we go then. That "£350m a week" is going to seem like small change compared with what we will lose
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
good feck em, we'll be the first of many, its going to fall apart, Italian banks on the verge of meltdown
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Was there an option on the ballot paper regarding hard or soft Brexit ?
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Nelsonca61
Was there an option on the ballot paper regarding hard or soft Brexit ?
You know the answer to that question
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Packerman
good feck em, we'll be the first of many, its going to fall apart, Italian banks on the verge of meltdown
The point is they'll feck us so that nobody else decides to leave
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
The point is they'll feck us so that nobody else decides to leave
so another project fear, went well last time
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Packerman
so another project fear, went well last time
To be fair, I don't remember any of the project fear predictions being about what will happen months before Article 50 is even triggered.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
You know the answer to that question
Abstainer, didn't go to a ballot box :thumbup:
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Packerman
so another project fear, went well last time
Which project fear was that? The one about turkey joining the eu?
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Nelsonca61
Abstainer, didn't go to a ballot box :thumbup:
Nonetheless you still know the answer to your question
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Nelsonca61
Abstainer, didn't go to a ballot box :thumbup:
You're the third person on here that I've noticed is very pro-leaving but claims they didn't vote.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
Hard Brexit is Brexit, soft brexit is not brexit. It is what people voted for. They have had to change their view because we are playing hard ball.
And who can actually tell you with certainty how much it will cost us? Because it could well reward us intime. No prediction can be based on anything. We are not definitely going to lose out. You've just been taken in by those that have an interest to make it look bad.
Glad this idea of a soft non brexit is being forgotten. That is not brexit. That is what Dave should have negotiated for us to stay in, but he got nothing.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
The point is they'll feck us so that nobody else decides to leave
Or they will shoot themselves in the foot, and it collapses anyway.
People wont want to see a close neighbour being given a shit tough deal. That will only encourage people to want to leave. Not the europe I want to be part of.
And a tough deal will still be tough on them. Their banks are struggling, the ties we have allow them cheaper and easier credit through london. They wont want to lose that. Their banks could collapse, Germany wont allow them to be rescued, everyone loses all their money, and suddenly the 2008 and 2010 crash will be small.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
lardy
You're the third person on here that I've noticed is very pro-leaving but claims they didn't vote.
Wow so it should have won by a bigger margin?
Support for brexit is about to jump up. Blair is back again.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-and-brexit-i/
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
The point is they'll feck us so that nobody else decides to leave
The Italian anti-EU party is leading in the opinion polls regarding their EU referendum, likewise Le Pen is ahead on 29% in France to be the next French President. The world is truly turning upside down post Brexit.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Barry Dragon
:biggrin:
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Barry Dragon
Hard Brexit is Brexit, soft brexit is not brexit. It is what people voted for. They have had to change their view because we are playing hard ball.
Sorry but that is revisionist bollocks.
There was no clarity on what people were voting for, people in the brexit campaign made plenty of noises about keeping free trade with Europe.
I know plenty of people who voted to leave but would prefer to accept free movement of people and stay in the free trade zone.
You might have ha different priorities with what you were voting for but you cannot speak for everyone who voted to leave.
Everyone was basically told that they could have their cake and eat it with no free movement and free trade. It now looks like thatwas never in fact based in reality and if we as a nation have to choose between the two you or anyone else cannot possibly know what the rest of the nation would prefer to do.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Barry Dragon
Hard Brexit is Brexit, soft brexit is not brexit. It is what people voted for. They have had to change their view because we are playing hard ball.
And who can actually tell you with certainty how much it will cost us? Because it could well reward us intime. No prediction can be based on anything. We are not definitely going to lose out. You've just been taken in by those that have an interest to make it look bad.
Glad this idea of a soft non brexit is being forgotten. That is not brexit. That is what Dave should have negotiated for us to stay in, but he got nothing.
Can you clarify what the bit in bold means?
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Nelsonca61
Was there an option on the ballot paper regarding hard or soft Brexit ?
most people who voted wouldn't have had a clue what the difference was
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
TH63
most people who voted wouldn't have had a clue what the difference was
Isn't it a bit like divorcing your wife, but still living together?
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
TH63
most people who voted wouldn't have had a clue what the difference was
because its been made up recently by sore loser remainers
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Packerman
because its been made up recently by sore loser remainers
Well the remain campaign were pointing these things out before the referendum, saying we would either see trade tariffs or have to keep free movement of people.
This was [s] lied about [/s] dismissed time again by the brexit bunch who promised everyone we could have both, making it seem as though there was both a financial and immigration case for brexit.
If people knew they would be paying such a high price for reduced immigration (if that actually happens) I know several people who would have voted differently
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The Italian anti-EU party is leading in the opinion polls regarding their EU referendum, likewise Le Pen is ahead on 29% in France to be the next French President. The world is truly turning upside down post Brexit.
Post brexit, or post Arab Spring?
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Barry Dragon
Hard Brexit is Brexit, soft brexit is not brexit. It is what people voted for.
Is it really? I know of people who voted to leave but want to keep freedom of movement.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Barry Dragon
Post brexit, or post Arab Spring?
Arab Spring was Soros/Globalists. Brexit/Trump is opposing force as far as I can see.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Well the remain campaign were pointing these things out before the referendum, saying we would either see trade tariffs or have to keep free movement of people.
This was [s] lied about [/s] dismissed time again by the brexit bunch who promised everyone we could have both, making it seem as though there was both a financial and immigration case for brexit.
If people knew they would be paying such a high price for reduced immigration (if that actually happens) I know several people who would have voted differently
The official remain campaign did an awful job of explained the details of issues after an exit.
Passporting and london was discussed rarely if ever, from what I read. And that would have been a major negative of leaving for thousands. If they thought london could be gutted of financial services.
They relied on using emotional arguments. I don't know how many times Remain MP's and celebs wheeled out the argument of being loving and caring.
The remain campaign claim to be the wise ones but their attempt was dire. They resorted to claiming economists were on their side so that gives their powder puff arguments credibility. As if they didn't need to explain themselves properly because of it.
There are far, farrrrrrrrrr more intelligent people that voted leave than on this messageboard. Yet apparently remain voters have intelligence ring fenced for themselves.....
Maybe in 20 years time we'll know if the decision was a poor one. Because positives and negatives can only be compared to how the EU succeeds/fails over a long term period. We'll see.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Arab Spring was Soros/Globalists. Brexit/Trump is opposing force as far as I can see.
What did Soros tell that fruit seller to set himself on fire?.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
Maybe in 20 years time we'll know if the decision was a poor one. Because positives and negatives can only be compared to how the EU succeeds/fails over a long term period. We'll see.
The fait of the EU will be decided in 2017.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Can you clarify what the bit in bold means?
Predictions use historic figures, plus your gut feeling. They are not based on what will happen in the future. Its far too complex to try and do that. So they use what has happened previously, this can allow you to accurately predict what will happen for the same scenario. Only this had not happened previously, so you cannot use any predictions for what will happen accurately. Any prediction is simply ones gut feeling.
All the economists who got it so wrong prove that. Yes not much has actually happened, but one of the cores of their predictions was a massive loss in confidence, and if that was going to happen it would have. There was an initial blip as people held their breath, but the economy has continued to improve since brexit. And if anything confidence has improved in the british economy since brexit.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The fait of the EU will be decided in 2017.
Yes.
I don't think she will win.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
When a Le Pen — or his or her party — makes it to a second round of elections, French conservatives and leftists have historically come together in a front républicain to block the National Front. This happened in 2002, when conservative Jacques Chirac squared off against Jean-Marie Le Pen following Socialist Lionel Jospin’s shocking defeat in the first round. Chirac swept the second round with a whopping 82 percent of the vote; such was the scale of revulsion at the prospect of a racist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic bigot in the Élysée palace.
Last year — barely a month after the deadly Paris attacks — French voters did it again in the December regional elections, when conservatives and the left banded together to block a National Front sweep.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
The official remain campaign did an awful job of explained the details of issues after an exit.
Passporting and london was discussed rarely if ever, from what I read. And that would have been a major negative of leaving for thousands. If they thought london could be gutted of financial services.
They relied on using emotional arguments. I don't know how many times Remain MP's and celebs wheeled out the argument of being loving and caring.
The remain campaign claim to be the wise ones but their attempt was dire. They resorted to claiming economists were on their side so that gives their powder puff arguments credibility. As if they didn't need to explain themselves properly because of it.
There are far, farrrrrrrrrr more intelligent people that voted leave than on this messageboard. Yet apparently remain voters have intelligence ring fenced for themselves.....
Maybe in 20 years time we'll know if the decision was a poor one. Because positives and negatives can only be compared to how the EU succeeds/fails over a long term period. We'll see.
We'll know whether it was a mistake or not a long time before twenty years have elapsed - a quarter of that time should be enough.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
Because positives and negatives can only be compared to how the EU succeeds/fails over a long term period. We'll see.
Where I have a problem is the initial hit that is likely, and that the harder the exit, the harder the initial hit will be. I can't accept things might be better in the long term if it causes many problems initially, like financial hardship, increased inequality etc
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barry Dragon
Predictions use historic figures, plus your gut feeling. They are not based on what will happen in the future. Its far too complex to try and do that. So they use what has happened previously, this can allow you to accurately predict what will happen for the same scenario. Only this had not happened previously, so you cannot use any predictions for what will happen accurately. Any prediction is simply ones gut feeling.
All the economists who got it so wrong prove that. Yes not much has actually happened, but one of the cores of their predictions was a massive loss in confidence, and if that was going to happen it would have. There was an initial blip as people held their breath, but the economy has continued to improve since brexit. And if anything confidence has improved in the british economy since brexit.
Were these economists saying that all of these dire things would happen while we remained in the EU? If they were, it would seem to me that they were defeating their own argument.
People on both sides of the fence are jumping to all sorts of conclusions and yet the mechanism by which we leave the EU is months away from starting yet if you believe what the Government are saying about invoking article 50 - it way too early yet to tell whether, economically speaking, the right decision was made in the referendum or not.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The fait of the EU will be decided in 2017.
I've just read that Francois Fillon is pro russia and assad. Not sure about the EU.
Juppe is the one the left is voting for.
So if its Fillon v Pen then Putin wins.
Fillon has a welsh wife as well. A welsh first lady of france :wales:
http://www.thelocal.fr/20161121/coul...ext-first-lady
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
We'll know whether it was a mistake or not a long time before twenty years have elapsed - a quarter of that time should be enough.
You're probably right.
Article 50 is definitely not going to be pretty.
We've had price increases in work because of the rise in imports.
Many companies will have adapted to the low currency by the time 50 happens.
Tariffs on top of that will be another story.....
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
When a Le Pen — or his or her party — makes it to a second round of elections, French conservatives and leftists have historically come together in a front républicain to block the National Front. This happened in 2002, when conservative Jacques Chirac squared off against Jean-Marie Le Pen following Socialist Lionel Jospin’s shocking defeat in the first round. Chirac swept the second round with a whopping 82 percent of the vote; such was the scale of revulsion at the prospect of a racist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic bigot in the Élysée palace.
Last year — barely a month after the deadly Paris attacks — French voters did it again in the December regional elections, when conservatives and the left banded together to block a National Front sweep.
I agree with that, except this time the Madame is offering a EU referendum, and Breitbart are also hiring French reporting staff as they prepare for a Paris launch.
I'm waiting for the fat lady :biggrin:
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I agree with that, except this time the Madame is offering a EU referendum, and Breitbart are also hiring French reporting staff as they prepare for a Paris launch.
I'm waiting for the fat lady :biggrin:
I've been here all the time. :biggrin:
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
What did Soros tell that fruit seller to set himself on fire?.
That's one way of looking at it.
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Re: Hard brexit for Britain, whether we want it or not
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I agree with that, except this time the Madame is offering a EU referendum, and Breitbart are also hiring French reporting staff as they prepare for a Paris launch.
I'm waiting for the fat lady :biggrin:
To be honest I am guessing, based on very little. Who wouldn've thought Donald Trump would be president.
France gains massively from the agricultural policies of the EU doesn't it?. And that is its main industry. Exporting cars as well.
Her anti islam vote won't win it for her. That Fillon guy is strict catholic. France already bans the burka etc, so not sure what can be gained from her anti islam policies. Do what trump said he'd do and block immigration from islamic countries?.
Algeria/Morooco makes up 16% & 15% of all migration to france. Maybe block them?. Apart from that, EU countries far exceed all others. And France is already filled with Islamic people. It'll only create more and more division.
But yes if France leaves that could be its downfall. Is france eurosceptic?. Not from my experiences there.
An independent france on our door step could be a good thing. We'll be better friends than if one remains in the EU.