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What is political correctness?
Just finished reading a very long piece on political correctness;-
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...y-donald-trump
which sums up completely how I feel about things at the moment. I'd be interested in how people on here would define political correctness because, as the writer of the piece says, it's an easy and convenient thing to rail against, but what is it really?
Similarly, who are this mainstream liberal elite that we are all supposed to be against these days? Maybe it's my age, but the notion of people with liberal, progressive views representing the "establishment" is one I struggle with because that's never been what I have thought of when that word was used.
People talked about how this liberal elite controls us and, yet, when I look at the privately owned print, social and video news media in this country and America, I see more representation of the views that have led to the Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump than I do of this mysterious elite establishment that has controlled us for the last however many decades it's been before we all saw the light in 2016 - by and large, I would have thought the establishment as I define it will have been pretty happy with what has happened this year on both sides of the Atlantic.
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Re: What is political correctness?
The EU are the liberal elite for the use of the phrase in the UK.
And its Obama in the US. Acutally probably more the Clintons
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Re: What is political correctness?
I can't be reading that but I think it is impossible to define because you cannot tell someone what does and doesn't offend someone.
Some say that causing offence is a right. But then at what point does it become a hate crime.
I don't think you can define it. It is just about being sensible and realising where the red line is. Why are minorities protected but majorities can be thrown under the bus though?.
People on social media are so quick to jump to defend migrants for example. Whatever your opinion on them, if you criticise the idea of it you are immediately attacked.
People are offended by attacks on others over attacks on themselves. I couldn't give a hoot if someone insulted where I am from or who I am.
People are outraged by comments in the media, but spend 5 minutes browsing youtube comment sections for example. Far more hatred thrown about and people don't care. Twitter is a cesspool of hatred but people think people like Nigel Farage are satan incarnate. He is white male, part of a majority - so he is easy to attack. And people can feel good about themselves for it.
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Re: What is political correctness?
I think PC is used as a tool to close down arguments, and as a form of self-censorship. As mentioned above, liberal elites are Obama/Clinton/Fabians/EU mafia, etc, but they are not really liberal they are commies. Their vision is for a one world government run for the bendfit of the elites and the corporations/banks. You can see how jobs have disappeared from the West, secretive trade deals are being negotiated, migrants are flooding in, and people are feeling disenfranchised. This all all by design as the aim is to break down countries and their cultures. You might have also noticed increasing surveillance and a creeping militarisation of the police. Depending on who you ask, you may get differing views about what the future has install for all of us.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I think PC is used as a tool to close down arguments, and as a form of self-censorship. As mentioned above, liberal elites are Obama/Clinton/Fabians/EU mafia, etc, but they are not really liberal they are commies. Their vision is for a one world government run for the bendfit of the elites and the corporations/banks. You can see how jobs have disappeared from the West, secretive trade deals are being negotiated, migrants are flooding in, and people are feeling disenfranchised. This all all by design as the aim is to break down countries and their cultures. You might have also noticed increasing surveillance and a creeping militarisation of the police. Depending on who you ask, you may get differing views about what the future has install for all of us.
:thumbup:
Political Correctness = Language and Thought Control
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/02/1...ought-control/
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I think PC is used as a tool to close down arguments, and as a form of self-censorship. As mentioned above, liberal elites are Obama/Clinton/Fabians/EU mafia, etc, but they are not really liberal they are commies. Their vision is for a one world government run for the bendfit of the elites and the corporations/banks. You can see how jobs have disappeared from the West, secretive trade deals are being negotiated, migrants are flooding in, and people are feeling disenfranchised. This all all by design as the aim is to break down countries and their cultures. You might have also noticed increasing surveillance and a creeping militarisation of the police. Depending on who you ask, you may get differing views about what the future has install for all of us.
That's an interesting interpretation of communism you've got there WB. You'll have to remind us where in Marx he calls for one world govt, the promotion of elites, corporations and, erm, banks. :-)
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gabalphaville
That's an interesting interpretation of communism you've got there WB. You'll have to remind us where in Marx he calls for one world govt, the promotion of elites, corporations and, erm, banks. :-)
The controlled commie bit is for the general public, and as you know some commies are more equal than others :biggrin: I forgot to mention the dumbing down of education too.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Just finished reading a very long piece on political correctness;-
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...y-donald-trump
which sums up completely how I feel about things at the moment. I'd be interested in how people on here would define political correctness because, as the writer of the piece says, it's an easy and convenient thing to rail against, but what is it really?
Similarly, who are this mainstream liberal elite that we are all supposed to be against these days? Maybe it's my age, but the notion of people with liberal, progressive views representing the "establishment" is one I struggle with because that's never been what I have thought of when that word was used.
People talked about how this liberal elite controls us and, yet, when I look at the privately owned print, social and video news media in this country and America, I see more representation of the views that have led to the Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump than I do of this mysterious elite establishment that has controlled us for the last however many decades it's been before we all saw the light in 2016 - by and large, I would have thought the establishment as I define it will have been pretty happy with what has happened this year on both sides of the Atlantic.
I think PC in the UK is often seen as a form of finger wagging aimed mostly but not exclusively at the working class, usually by middle-class liberals with a guilt complex. It pisses people off that, say, LGBT issues are elevated above economic issues which affect a much wider range of people. It’s considered a form of thought and behavioural control through language by those who disagree with it. I wouldn't disagree with that view but don't all political sides play language games?
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gabalphaville
That's an interesting interpretation of communism you've got there WB. You'll have to remind us where in Marx he calls for one world govt, the promotion of elites, corporations and, erm, banks. :-)
Look into the Fabian Society - "The Fabian Society is a British socialist organisation whose purpose is to advance the principles of democratic socialism via gradualist and reformist effort in democracies, rather than by revolutionary overthrow."
BTW the central theme of Marx's Communist Party Manifesto consisted of monopolistic capitalist policies such as the centralisation of capital and the organisation of workers.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Just finished reading a very long piece on political correctness;-
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...y-donald-trump
which sums up completely how I feel about things at the moment. I'd be interested in how people on here would define political correctness because, as the writer of the piece says, it's an easy and convenient thing to rail against, but what is it really?
Similarly, who are this mainstream liberal elite that we are all supposed to be against these days? Maybe it's my age, but the notion of people with liberal, progressive views representing the "establishment" is one I struggle with because that's never been what I have thought of when that word was used.
People talked about how this liberal elite controls us and, yet, when I look at the privately owned print, social and video news media in this country and America, I see more representation of the views that have led to the Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump than I do of this mysterious elite establishment that has controlled us for the last however many decades it's been before we all saw the light in 2016 - by and large, I would have thought the establishment as I define it will have been pretty happy with what has happened this year on both sides of the Atlantic.
It was well worth the time to read that. A very well written and researched article, and I completely agree with the author.
I remember the term 'politically correct' being used by the left in Britain in the late 70s and 80s - and always ironically. I never made the connection with Mao, but it was always a term to deflate someone who was getting too pompous and 'ideological'.
Then came the 90s when the tabloid press (and Mail) started inventing EU 'politically correct' regulations (the equivalent of oblong bananas and sausages renamed 'offal tubes'), claiming that schools could no longer use the term 'black board' and making false claims that some district council had abolished Christmas in order not to offend local muslims. I didn't pick up on the stuff from american universities, but it was all part of the same wave. In the UK and USA 'political correctness' was appropriated by the right and used as a stick to beat political opponents.
In recent years (culminating with Trump) this has gone a big step further and opposition to 'political correctness' (often not real and, if real, usually misrepresented) has become the dog whistle that unleashes prejudice and hate and gives people permission to do so under the flag of 'freedom of speech' or 'liberty'. And all of it is orchestrated by powerful people in politics, media and business who have never been constrained or prevented from preaching their views by any 'liberal elite'. They are the elite, and they have not changed for generations.
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Re: What is political correctness?
PC is used for its own ends , and when it suits , I feel its way over the top, we will end with a society with no character or humour.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mrs Steve R
I thought that having read about political correctness from one viewpoint, I should do so from another and so read the piece in the link you posted.
I read the first third or so of it and thought it was just the sort on agenda driven rant I expected it to be, but then the writer started to make arguments that was backed up by research and I began to find myself agreeing with some of what was being said.
I cannot believe anyone would have too many arguments with the writer when they say "If you are concerned about hurting people’s feelings unnecessarily, you can always find ways to express something in the right way. In those kind of situations, what really matters is the way you say words, not what you say." - that's what I have always tried to do.
However, I've done that not because I was afraid of upsetting these bastions of political correctness that the writer would have us believe are looking over our shoulders at everything we say, type or write, but because it's the right and proper thing to do.
Gluey has it that this liberal elite is some left of centre mafia (to use his word) ranging from Obama and the Clintons through to those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against. I just don't see that I'm afraid and find it amusing that it is this coalition of what seems to be anyone he doesn't like who is responsible for "political correctness" - presumably those in the Tory party who campaigned on the remain side were in with these communists as well?
Yes, I accept that there are examples around (some of which appear in the article) where the term "political correctness gone mad" can be applied and, yes, I mentioned before on here that the labeling of people who voted to leave the EU as racist was something that was applied far too freely (occasionally by myself), but, sorry, I just don't see political correctness as being the sort of threat it's made out to be in that article.
No, it seems to me that it's just as likely to be a shield used by the likes of Donald Trump to hide behind as he puts any challenging of untruths he has told (e.g. remarks about the character of Mexicans and his claim about millions of illegal votes) down to "political correctness", so we see the term being used by those who say that they are fighting against it as a way in which they try to stifle debate and dissent - whose trying to "reduce the scope of free thought" there?
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
It was well worth the time to read that. A very well written and researched article, and I completely agree with the author.
I remember the term 'politically correct' being used by the left in Britain in the late 70s and 80s - and always ironically. I never made the connection with Mao, but it was always a term to deflate someone who was getting too pompous and 'ideological'.
Then came the 90s when the tabloid press (and Mail) started inventing EU 'politically correct' regulations (the equivalent of oblong bananas and sausages renamed 'offal tubes'), claiming that schools could no longer use the term 'black board' and making false claims that some district council had abolished Christmas in order not to offend local muslims. I didn't pick up on the stuff from american universities, but it was all part of the same wave. In the UK and USA 'political correctness' was appropriated by the right and used as a stick to beat political opponents.
In recent years (culminating with Trump) this has gone a big step further and opposition to 'political correctness' (often not real and, if real, usually misrepresented) has become the dog whistle that unleashes prejudice and hate and gives people permission to do so under the flag of 'freedom of speech' or 'liberty'. And all of it is orchestrated by powerful people in politics, media and business who have never been constrained or prevented from preaching their views by any 'liberal elite'. They are the elite, and they have not changed for generations.
Well said Jon. To my mind, what you say, particularly your final paragraph, is right on the button - I know who I'd back to win any power struggle between the "liberal elite", that some would have us think are at the root of all of the world's evils, and the elite you refer to.
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Re: What is political correctness?
The right wing are claimed to be the root cause of all evil.
The liberal elite are only now getting criticism. As they've had free reign to mouth off in the media for decades. Living off the idea they are morally righteous.
Slightly right leaning people get lampooned left, right and centre by liberals.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Wales-Bales has it that this liberal elite is some left of centre mafia (to use his word) ranging from Obama and the Clintons through to those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against. I just don't see that I'm afraid and find it amusing that it is this coalition of what seems to be anyone he doesn't like who is responsible for "political correctness" - presumably those in the Tory party who campaigned on the remain side were in with these communists as well?
I suggested above to do some research the Fabian Society and their long term goals. You could also try the Council on Foreign Relations. Also I never mentioned "those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against" as being part of this group, I included those in charge of the EU.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
The right wing are claimed to be the root cause of all evil.
The liberal elite are only now getting criticism. As they've had free reign to mouth off in the media for decades. Living off the idea they are morally righteous.
Slightly right leaning people get lampooned left, right and centre by liberals.
The so called liberal elite are quite possibly wolves in sheep's clothing. They have certainly done a good job of destroying a lot of things. But you could also say that the main players in two party politics follow the same agendas.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I suggested above to do some research the Fabian Society and their long term goals. You could also try the Council on Foreign Relations. Also I never mentioned "those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against" as being part of this group, I included those in charge of the EU.
What is the significance of the Fabian Society for this discussion on 'political correctness' and the evil 'liberal elite' that are out to destroy the ancient British pleasures of watching the Black And White Minstrels and queer bashing?
The Fabians are a small organisation (now about 7,000 member) affiliated to the Labour Party, and as far as i can see do all their stuff out in the open. They mainly produce pamphlets and stage political discussion meetings. They are the epitome of social democratic, evolutionary, reformist centre-left politics. They may have a few members in positions of influence in the Labour Party, but I don't think they run the banks, the press, multi-national businesses, major lobbying networks or Holywood studios!
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
What is the significance of the Fabian Society for this discussion on 'political correctness' and the evil 'liberal elite' that are out to destroy the ancient British pleasures of watching the Black And White Minstrels and queer bashing?
The Fabians are a small organisation (now about 7,000 member) affiliated to the Labour Party, and as far as i can see do all their stuff out in the open. They mainly produce pamphlets and stage political discussion meetings. They are the epitome of social democratic, evolutionary, reformist centre-left politics. They may have a few members in positions of influence in the Labour Party, but I don't think they run the banks, the press, multi-national businesses, major lobbying networks or Holywood studios!
That's why I suggested doing some research :-)
And the OP was addressing who are the liberal elite in his initial message, hence my reply :thumbup:
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Re: What is political correctness?
Another recently popular attack from the right and far right is to claim 'anti fascists are the new fascists!'
I've lost count of the number of times that has been trotted out by the EDL wing of ****.
It's like 1984 newspeak. It blames the victims. It claims the opponents of discrimination and hate are complicit in that discrimination and hate (or the architects of it). It has neo-Nazis thugs claiming the moral high ground against liberal protestors and commentators. It is a deliberate tactic to maintain the ability of the real elite (not this imaginary liberal elite) to carry on exploiting, controlling and lying without challenge.
There is a legitimate debate to be had about 'no platform' and whether the legal protections from hate speech are in the right place. I think sometimes the gagging of offensive rather than threatening and intimidatory views by student organisations (and much more rarely by public service or state broadcasters) is wrong and self-defeating. But 'anti fascists are the new fascists!'? No, the new fascists are still the old fascists.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Generalising to form an argument isn't much of an argument really is it?.
I don't know what your point is. Who are the victims?.
The EDL speaks for 0.000001% of the population.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Corn Flakes is the new face of the politically correct liberal elite. Frightening.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...cott-alt-right
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I thought that having read about political correctness from one viewpoint, I should do so from another and so read the piece in the link you posted.
I read the first third or so of it and thought it was just the sort on agenda driven rant I expected it to be, but then the writer started to make arguments that was backed up by research and I began to find myself agreeing with some of what was being said.
I cannot believe anyone would have too many arguments with the writer when they say "If you are concerned about hurting people’s feelings unnecessarily, you can always find ways to express something in the right way. In those kind of situations, what really matters is the way you say words, not what you say." - that's what I have always tried to do.
However, I've done that not because I was afraid of upsetting these bastions of political correctness that the writer would have us believe are looking over our shoulders at everything we say, type or write, but because it's the right and proper thing to do.
Gluey has it that this liberal elite is some left of centre mafia (to use his word) ranging from Obama and the Clintons through to those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against. I just don't see that I'm afraid and find it amusing that it is this coalition of what seems to be anyone he doesn't like who is responsible for "political correctness" - presumably those in the Tory party who campaigned on the remain side were in with these communists as well?
Yes, I accept that there are examples around (some of which appear in the article) where the term "political correctness gone mad" can be applied and, yes, I mentioned before on here that the labeling of people who voted to leave the EU as racist was something that was applied far too freely (occasionally by myself), but, sorry, I just don't see political correctness as being the sort of threat it's made out to be in that article.
No, it seems to me that it's just as likely to be a shield used by the likes of Donald Trump to hide behind as he puts any challenging of untruths he has told (e.g. remarks about the character of Mexicans and his claim about millions of illegal votes) down to "political correctness", so we see the term being used by those who say that they are fighting against it as a way in which they try to stifle debate and dissent - whose trying to "reduce the scope of free thought" there?
You deserve a pat on the back for getting past the word "Rothschild" in the opening sentence. :-)
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Another recently popular attack from the right and far right is to claim 'anti fascists are the new fascists!'
I've lost count of the number of times that has been trotted out by the EDL wing of ****.
.
"Cultural Marxism" is another comedy term often trotted out by the lunatic fringe of the political right. I just don't get their weird preoccupation with the Frankfurt School.
There is a good debate to be had about how language is used as social control but it isn't something that is specific to the left or to liberals. Look at how the right used the word "austerity" to con people into thinking it was the duty of those at the bottom of society to bear the brunt of economic failure. And how the concept was reinforced by the right-wing media with articles, for instance, on 'austerity fashion ideas' and 'austerity baking'. Religion has been using words like 'good' and 'evil' for centuries as a way of modifying behaviour and exerting social control - it's nothing new.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Look into the Fabian Society - "The Fabian Society is a British socialist organisation whose purpose is to advance the principles of democratic socialism via gradualist and reformist effort in democracies, rather than by revolutionary overthrow."
BTW the central theme of Marx's Communist Party Manifesto consisted of monopolistic capitalist policies such as the centralisation of capital and the organisation of workers.
:hehe:
You've never read the Communist Manifesto in your fecking life.
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Re: What is political correctness?
I have always thought that the term is so ill-defined as to be meaningless.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
Generalising to form an argument isn't much of an argument really is it?.
I don't know what your point is. Who are the victims?.
The EDL speaks for 0.000001% of the population.
My point is that 'anti fascists' are not the new fascists. Fascists are.
My other point is that victims of discrimination and hate are being gagged and deterred from speaking out with this right-wing bullshit 'newspeak'.
The EDL may speak for whatever % of the population that you claim - but it is a significant viewpoint on ****, and that was an example of where I have regularly heard this trite little formulation. It was an example and an illustration.
I really have no idea what you are trying to say about 'generalisation'. Don't all arguments and analyses draw general conclusions from generalised data and illustrate the point by reference to specific examples? If you think the use of language I have described is not Orwellian and sinister, then I would like to hear your take. From my point of view it is like blaming the poor for poverty, or branding anti Zionists as anti-semites. Victim blaming, deflecting, effective and clever.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gabalphaville
:hehe:
You've never read the Communist Manifesto in your fecking life.
It's not really my thing, I am a centrist, but I seem to recall that the proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gabalphaville
"Cultural Marxism" is another comedy term often trotted out by the lunatic fringe of the political right. I just don't get their weird preoccupation with the Frankfurt School.
There is a good debate to be had about how language is used as social control but it isn't something that is specific to the left or to liberals. Look at how the right used the word "austerity" to con people into thinking it was the duty of those at the bottom of society to bear the brunt of economic failure. And how the concept was reinforced by the right-wing media with articles, for instance, on 'austerity fashion ideas' and 'austerity baking'. Religion has been using words like 'good' and 'evil' for centuries as a way of modifying behaviour and exerting social control - it's nothing new.
Cultural Marxism is more than language.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gabalphaville
That's an interesting interpretation of communism you've got there WB. You'll have to remind us where in Marx he calls for one world govt
The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.
The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got. Since the proletariat must first of all acquire political supremacy, must rise to be the leading class of the nation, must constitute itself the nation, it is so far, itself national, though not in the bourgeois sense of the word.
National differences and antagonism between peoples are daily more and more vanishing, owing to the development of the bourgeoisie, to freedom of commerce, to the world market, to uniformity in the mode of production and in the conditions of life corresponding thereto.
The supremacy of the proletariat will cause them to vanish still faster. United action, of the leading civilised countries at least, is one of the first conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat.
In proportion as the exploitation of one individual by another will also be put an end to, the exploitation of one nation by another will also be put an end to. In proportion as the antagonism between classes within the nation vanishes, the hostility of one nation to another will come to an end.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I thought that having read about political correctness from one viewpoint, I should do so from another and so read the piece in the link you posted.
I read the first third or so of it and thought it was just the sort on agenda driven rant I expected it to be, but then the writer started to make arguments that was backed up by research and I began to find myself agreeing with some of what was being said.
I cannot believe anyone would have too many arguments with the writer when they say "If you are concerned about hurting people’s feelings unnecessarily, you can always find ways to express something in the right way. In those kind of situations, what really matters is the way you say words, not what you say." - that's what I have always tried to do.
However, I've done that not because I was afraid of upsetting these bastions of political correctness that the writer would have us believe are looking over our shoulders at everything we say, type or write, but because it's the right and proper thing to do.
Gluey has it that this liberal elite is some left of centre mafia (to use his word) ranging from Obama and the Clintons through to those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against. I just don't see that I'm afraid and find it amusing that it is this coalition of what seems to be anyone he doesn't like who is responsible for "political correctness" - presumably those in the Tory party who campaigned on the remain side were in with these communists as well?
Yes, I accept that there are examples around (some of which appear in the article) where the term "political correctness gone mad" can be applied and, yes, I mentioned before on here that the labeling of people who voted to leave the EU as racist was something that was applied far too freely (occasionally by myself), but, sorry, I just don't see political correctness as being the sort of threat it's made out to be in that article.
No, it seems to me that it's just as likely to be a shield used by the likes of Donald Trump to hide behind as he puts any challenging of untruths he has told (e.g. remarks about the character of Mexicans and his claim about millions of illegal votes) down to "political correctness", so we see the term being used by those who say that they are fighting against it as a way in which they try to stifle debate and dissent - whose trying to "reduce the scope of free thought" there?
I agree that it's the right and proper thing to do, I don't need political correctness to tell me how to treat people either but I will admit that it has stopped me talking about certain things through fear of being taken the wrong way, Brexit is a fine example like you said, I can't count how many replies to people I deleted over that time, not because I thought they sounded bad or racist in any way but because I thought ahead at how people could twist my words, I went to in to my reasons for wanting to leave over and over and people still implied that I was a racist, I'm sure I'm not the first person to not bother saying something just because it's easier that way so it does modify behaviour in that sense.
Trump and Farage are there to create a bigger divide imo, people seem to have adopted the view that if you don't hate them you must agree with them, this is where it becomes damaging, I don't hate anyone and I refuse to hate people and be pushed towards a side that I'm not even on just because other people think I should, it's getting that way for more and more topics, it's a constant source of divide and conflict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The so called liberal elite are quite possibly wolves in sheep's clothing. They have certainly done a good job of destroying a lot of things. But you could also say that the main players in two party politics follow the same agendas.
Like their logo. :hehe:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
What is the significance of the Fabian Society for this discussion on 'political correctness' and the evil 'liberal elite' that are out to destroy the ancient British pleasures of watching the Black And White Minstrels and queer bashing?
There is nothing me and Gluey like better than getting together to do a bit of queer bashing while we watch the Black And White Minstrels box set :hehe: Come on Jon, when have I ever said that's acceptable? this is what I'm talking about, twisting it around to suggest anyone who does not go along with the pc brigade must be racist, homophobic or whatever, I'm not any of those things, I just mind my own business when it comes to what other people say, people need to be able to express what they really think or there is a danger of those opinions going underground and festering imo.
I went out with an Asian lad who moved down from Birmingham when I was at school, I used to have to meet him on the corner of his street, he was not allowed to go out with me because I'm White :hehe: (just thought I'd throw that in there as I find it amusing when people say I'm a racist)
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Re: What is political correctness?
I've always defined political correctness as being wary/scared/terrified of expressing an opinion publicly that might upset/offend someone/anyone. It's working; vast numbers have become docile lambs as this country sinks further down the crapper economically, financially, socially, morally and spiritually.
About the only people it's safe to criticise nowadays are benefit claimants. But as the huge majority of British citizens are benefit claimants, they tend to always point their fingers at others and never themselves 'cos they and their family members always deserve every penny of what they take from the cookie jar.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mrs Steve R
There is nothing me and Gluey like better than getting together to do a bit of queer bashing while we watch the Black And White Minstrels box set :hehe: Come on Jon, when have I ever said that's acceptable? this is what I'm talking about, twisting it around to suggest anyone who does not go along with the pc brigade must be racist, homophobic or whatever, I'm not any of those things, I just mind my own business when it comes to what other people say, people need to be able to express what they really think or there is a danger of those opinions going underground and festering imo.
I went out with an Asian lad who moved down from Birmingham when I was at school, I used to have to meet him on the corner of his street, he was not allowed to go out with me because I'm White :hehe: (just thought I'd throw that in there as I find it amusing when people say I'm a racist)
Hi Mrs Steve R. My comment wasn't intended to be an attack on you or Gluey or to imply that you tin-hat Brexiteers are racist. It was though a comment on many in this country and the USA who use 'political correctness' as a stick to beat their political opponents and as a tool to shut down debate, discussion or dissent. To go back to Paul's original comment under the Guardian article - there are a lot of people (millions who supported Trump) who are racist, sexist, homophobic and white supremacist, and use (in my opinion) the phantom of a liberal elite that is out to destroy their traditional views and culture to legitemise the proud use of racist, sexist, homophobic.... etc language.... and at the same time gag and intimidate the people who are on the wrong end of those attitudes and behaviours. Trump has made alt-right white supremacists part of the mainstream. I was unhappy enough when they were all wrapped in a flag and pounding a bible. Now that flag is Confederate and the dam has burst for extreme right wing views and actions that were seen as unacceptable for a generation - even by NRA-supporting, evangelical Christian Republicans.
I do think you're out of your tree at times, but if anything I say seems to imply you are racist that is not the intention and due to sloppy wording. You're one of my favourite posters. :xmasthumbup:
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Re: What is political correctness?
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Hi Mrs Steve R. My comment wasn't intended to be an attack on you or Gluey or to imply that you tin-hat Brexiteers are racist. It was though a comment on many in this country and the USA who use 'political correctness' as a stick to beat their political opponents and as a tool to shut down debate, discussion or dissent. To go back to Paul's original comment under the Guardian article - there are a lot of people (millions who supported Trump) who are racist, sexist, homophobic and white supremacist, and use (in my opinion) the phantom of a liberal elite that is out to destroy their traditional views and culture to legitemise the proud use of racist, sexist, homophobic.... etc language.... and at the same time gag and intimidate the people who are on the wrong end of those attitudes and behaviours. Trump has made alt-right white supremacists part of the mainstream. I was unhappy enough when they were all wrapped in a flag and pounding a bible. Now that flag is Confederate and the dam has burst for extreme right wing views and actions that were seen as unacceptable for a generation - even by NRA-supporting, evangelical Christian Republicans.
I do think you're out of your tree at times, but if anything I say seems to imply you are racist that is not the intention and due to sloppy wording. You're one of my favourite posters. :xmasthumbup:
No I know you weren't Jon, I was partly joking, but when you mention the ancient British pleasures of watching the Black And White Minstrels and queer bashing it sort of suggests that people who don't play along with all this nonsense want things to stay that way, maybe I'm a bit paranoid about it now, people can call me a nutter all day every day, I don't mind that because in my eyes that's sort of debatable :hehe: me being racist is not because I know I'm not, I dunno, it just really bugs me (if you hadn't noticed lol)
I agree that people use it as a stick, I see that from all sides, the sad thing is all I see these days are sticks..
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Re: What is political correctness?
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I suggested above to do some research the Fabian Society and their long term goals. You could also try the Council on Foreign Relations. Also I never mentioned "those who we were supposed to have fought the cold war against" as being part of this group, I included those in charge of the EU.
You said the architects of political correctness were "not really liberal they are commies" therefore, naturally enough I feel, I presumed that the genuine article were included as well as ones playing at being a "liberal elite".
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Re: What is political correctness?
As someone who is now sixty, I'm in a demographic that is most likely to reflect the typical views of someone who voted leave, while it's also widely said that you move more to the right politically as you get older - I must be the exception that proves the rule :hehe:.
I've heard Jeremy Corbyn described as a natural dissenter and I think that is probably a description that could be applied to me. I've spent the last forty five years or so hoping to see the overthrow of a despised ruling elite by a population that has decided enough is enough and now, in the autumn of my life, it may, finally, be happening.
The revolution might be coming and, representing the common man and woman that this hated elite have manipulated and exploited are those champions of the underdog, Mr Donald Trump, Mr Boris Johnson, Mr Rupert Murdoch, those two related slugs that own the Daily Mail and far right, ultra nationalistic, political parties in Europe which target some of humanity's baser instincts. Not sure things were really supposed to work out this way, but, then, that's just me being politically correct again I suppose.
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Re: What is political correctness?
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
You said the architects of political correctness were "not really liberal they are commies" therefore, naturally enough I feel, I presumed that the genuine article were included as well as ones playing at being a "liberal elite".
A complex set of groupings cannot be fully explained in a few paragraghts. Besides the Fabians were formed in 1884, so they are not an exact carbon copy of Lenin's mob. It would also be incorrect to give the Wikileaks answer as Jon1959 did, that they are a fringe group of 7,000 Labour supporters (although they did come up with New Labour, and they are part of the plot to remove Corbyn). With a motto such as A Wolf In Sheep's Cothing you would expect them to branch out into other areas, and that is where you will find the big players with globalist ideologies coming into it.
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Re: What is political correctness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
As someone who is now sixty, I'm in a demographic that is most likely to reflect the typical views of someone who voted leave, while it's also widely said that you move more to the right politically as you get older - I must be the exception that proves the rule :hehe:.
I've heard Jeremy Corbyn described as a natural dissenter and I think that is probably a description that could be applied to me. I've spent the last forty five years or so hoping to see the overthrow of a despised ruling elite by a population that has decided enough is enough and now, in the autumn of my life, it may, finally, be happening.
The revolution might be coming and, representing the common man and woman that this hated elite have manipulated and exploited are those champions of the underdog, Mr Donald Trump, Mr Boris Johnson, Mr Rupert Murdoch, those two related slugs that own the Daily Mail and far right, ultra nationalistic, political parties in Europe which target some of humanity's baser instincts. Not sure things were really supposed to work out this way, but, then, that's just me being politically correct again I suppose.
A few political rants on Facebook and then everyone is back to posting pictures of kittens.
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Re: What is political correctness?
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.
The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got. Since the proletariat must first of all acquire political supremacy, must rise to be the leading class of the nation, must constitute itself the nation, it is so far, itself national, though not in the bourgeois sense of the word.
National differences and antagonism between peoples are daily more and more vanishing, owing to the development of the bourgeoisie, to freedom of commerce, to the world market, to uniformity in the mode of production and in the conditions of life corresponding thereto.
The supremacy of the proletariat will cause them to vanish still faster. United action, of the leading civilised countries at least, is one of the first conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat.
In proportion as the exploitation of one individual by another will also be put an end to, the exploitation of one nation by another will also be put an end to. In proportion as the antagonism between classes within the nation vanishes, the hostility of one nation to another will come to an end.
He's not calling for one world government WB, he's advocating NO government and, ultimately, a classless society. To achieve this the proletariat had to overcome the bourgeoisie in a class struggle. For Marx the proletariat were not an elite as they formed an overwhelming majority of the population. Marx was against the exploitation of the many by the few - an inherently anti-elitist view.
Granted Marx had no time for nationhood or nationalism but his emancipation of the workers is a far cry from contemporary "liberal elites" as perceived by your good self: "liberal elites are Obama/Clinton/Fabians/EU mafia, etc, but they are not really liberal they are commies. Their vision is for a one world government run for the bendfit of the elites and the corporations/banks." That really doesn't sound like Communism to me.
And, like other posters, I'm somewhat baffled by your paranoia about Fabians. :xmassherlock:
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Re: What is political correctness?
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Originally Posted by
Gabalphaville
He's not calling for one world government WB, he's advocating NO government and, ultimately, a classless society. To achieve this the proletariat had to overcome the bourgeoisie in a class struggle. For Marx the proletariat were not an elite as they formed an overwhelming majority of the population. Marx was against the exploitation of the many by the few - an inherently anti-elitist view.
Granted Marx had no time for nationhood or nationalism but his emancipation of the workers is a far cry from contemporary "liberal elites" as perceived by your good self: "liberal elites are Obama/Clinton/Fabians/EU mafia, etc, but they are not really liberal they are commies. Their vision is for a one world government run for the bendfit of the elites and the corporations/banks." That really doesn't sound like Communism to me.
And, like other posters, I'm somewhat baffled by your paranoia about Fabians. :xmassherlock:
Stalin and Castro harldly lived the same kind of lives as the proletariat. A one world government is essentially no democratic goverment, as there will be a group in power who cannot be challenged. The EU is run by the Eurogroup, which is accountable to nobody. Eventually all citizens will be limited in what they can do by a socialist structure that controls labour and the means of production. Proposed trade deals such as TTIP already put the interests of corporations above those of government and citizens.
Regarding the Fabians they are the starting point for the globalist ideology that spawned various other organisations. For example Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and a future member of the CFR, and Cecil Rhodes was a Fabian and a founding member of the Round Table (Chatham House), so Fabianism is a general term not necessarily restricted to the 7,000 members of the actual Fabian Society.
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Re: What is political correctness?
"The avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against."