Social Care Is It Just This Governments Fault

It seems to me that this issue didn't just arrive in recent years, are we looking at an issue that has not been funded and ignored over many governments lifespans .

This needs serous funding , and can only get more demanding as people live longer , perhaps the NHS is working as people are living longer .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

It seems to me that this issue didn't just arrive in recent years, are we looking at an issue that has not been funded and ignored over many governments lifespans .

This needs serous funding , and can only get more demanding as people live longer , perhaps the NHS is working as people are living longer .

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As with most of these massive issues, politicians just stick their heads in the sand and hope they don't have to deal with it. We look at all these things the wrong way around. We decide how much to tax and then work out what we need to spend it on, any sensible person or organisation would do it the other way around. British people decide what they want to provide, then the government tells us how much that would cost. Unfortunately we are well past the point where politicians bother to tell the truth.

Clearly it could have been better funded at any point in recent history. But make no bones about it, this disaster has been caused by this government and the coalition one before it.
A council leader was on the radio earlier saying that their social care budget had been slashed from 400 million to 200 million in the last 5 years, through austerity measures.

This has a massive impact on the nhs ability to function correctly.

I think social care should be taken off the local authorities and given to the nhs to run, then they could run it in a way which saves money for the nhs

Well Cardiff Council can afford to spend thirty grand on a Chinese Christmas tree so obviously no problems for us in Cardiff thank god.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

As with most of these massive issues, politicians just stick their heads in the sand and hope they don't have to deal with it. We look at all these things the wrong way around. We decide how much to tax and then work out what we need to spend it on, any sensible person or organisation would do it the other way around. British people decide what they want to provide, then the government tells us how much that would cost. Unfortunately we are well past the point where politicians bother to tell the truth.

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I believe they do that on a local scale in the US

I sometimes wonder if we are all a bit at fault i.e. farming out care rather than looking after the elderly in our own families.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I sometimes wonder if we are all a bit at fault i.e. farming out care rather than looking after the elderly in our own families.

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What do you suggest that someone who works full time to support their family does when they have an elderly relative who needs 24/7 care?

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Originally Posted by TH63

What do you suggest that someone who works full time to support their family does when they have an elderly relative who needs 24/7 care?

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I just wonder if our concept of modern society has lost something as far as familial responsibility is concerned. I don't have any answers and I don't mean to underestimate the problems faced by many families etc. Twas just a thought, old fruit.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I just wonder if our concept of modern society has lost something as far as familial responsibility is concerned. I don't have any answers and I don't mean to underestimate the problems faced by many families etc. Twas just a thought, old fruit.

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There is some merit in what you said, but as you say, society has changed since I (and I suspect you) was a kid and it's too late to put the genie back in the bottle - see what I did there? :hehe:
My grandfather and grandmother had something like 16 siblings between them, all living within a couple of miles of each other which means plenty of people to share the responsibility of looking after their parents.
These days though, people are living longer, families are getting smaller, their children are often working flat out and often commute long distances or no longer live locally. That's before we get to the bit where professsional nursing care is an essential not a luxury.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I sometimes wonder if we are all a bit at fault i.e. farming out care rather than looking after the elderly in our own families.

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The breakdown of extended families has accelerated over the last 30 odd years mainly due to families being dispersed due to moving away from your home town to chase work or housing.This limits the opportunity to help relatives especially older ones.Back in the sixties people were far more likely to meet members of their families other than immediate ones, families were more closer then meaning that they were more likely to help one another. Nowadays most people only care about their kids/parents

It sounds more like a stealth tax to me, proxy wars and implemting the snoopers charter isn't cheap, so it makes sense to raise more cash by passing on the acceple caring debt to the unsuspecting public. We are still paying the same amount of tax that we always were for ever diminishing services. Our tax commitment should be going down not up. And I haven't even mentioned the politicians who buy leather pants at £1,000 a pop :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

It sounds more like a stealth tax to me, proxy wars and implemting the snoopers charter isn't cheap, so it makes sense to raise more cash by passing on the acceple caring debt to the unsuspecting public. We are still paying the same amount of tax that we always were for ever diminishing services. Our tax commitment should be going down not up. And I haven't even mentioned the politicians who buy leather pants at £1,000 a pop :hehe:

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Why do you think taxes should reduce?.

Given the fact wages rise and so do consumer costs. As well as costs of health care contracts etc.

Nothing about stealth. This isn't 1984.

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Originally Posted by LordKenwyne

Why do you think taxes should reduce?

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The decimation of public services. We are paying more for less. Taxes are collected as a percentage so it is all relative. Shifting care costs onto council tax bills is creative accounting.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

The decimation of public services. We are paying more for less. Taxes are collected as a percentage so it is all relative. Shifting care costs onto council tax bills is creative accounting.

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Demand on public services is massive, the number of people of retirement age and above has ballooned over the last decade due to increases in longevity and the baby boomer generation reaching that age.
And the demands of that age group are way more than they ever paid in.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Demand on public services is massive, the number of people of retirement age and above has ballooned over the last decade due to increases in longevity and the baby boomer generation reaching that age.
And the demands of that age group are way more than they ever paid in.

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It should be dealt with at the national level. If the pot of money raised through tax is not enough it should either be increased openly, or cuts made elsewhere, and not shifted onto council tax bills. We need to sort out what our priorities are as a nation, and we shouldn't be playing the role of world leaders if we can't take care of the people at home. I think the idea suggested of joining the care of the elderly with the NHS should be explored.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

It should be dealt with at the national level. If the pot of money raised through tax is not enough it should either be increased openly, or cuts made elsewhere, and not shifted onto council tax bills. We need to sort out what our priorities are as a nation, and we shouldn't be playing the role of world leaders if we can't take care of the people at home. I think the idea suggested of joining the care of the elderly with the NHS should be explored.

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Yup

People in this country want something for nothing , if we want to look after our poor the infirm , have a good ahs , care system , we need to pay for it by raising taxes but the coalition tossers and yes I admit , Labour under that twat Blair want to keep everyone sweet ......well it's too ****ing late .....but don't expect any help from the Tory scum

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Chucking money at something - doesnt work , the whole sector needs to be looked at and a solution found re how it is funded and how it works.

Would you like to take money from the cancer research budget or the schools education budget , or happy to have your council tax increased - regardless of whether you have had a pay rise or not ? - thought not.

There is ONE budget I would like to see reigned in - and that is the overseas aid budget. March this year for example over 400 million who as good as thrown away - as they tried desperately hard to spend their 12 billion a year budget.

I would have the overseas cut in half - that woudl plug about 50% of the social care budget issue over night. BUT not until the sector has been looked at - and ALL wastage elimated as much as possible.

ps Sludge - Local councils spent eight per cent more in real terms on adult social care in 2013/14 than they did in ten years ago in 2003/4, figures from the Health and Social Care Information Centre show this quite clearly

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8% more spending does not keep up with demand. Over the same period there are 40% more gp appointments due to ageing population

Mostly yes, but all governments are useless at planning for the future. It was clear to see that more people are getting older, so a clever government would get things in place ready. Which no government past or present has done.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I sometimes wonder if we are all a bit at fault i.e. farming out care rather than looking after the elderly in our own families.

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Partially true, work pressures these days mean its harder.

but this does remind me of some bloke on here who was complaining his parents had to fill out forms and they were too old to do it. He spent time moaning on here rather than actually helping his parents. People do need to take more care of the elderly where possible, rather than just hoping someone else can do it.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

It sounds more like a stealth tax to me, proxy wars and implemting the snoopers charter isn't cheap, so it makes sense to raise more cash by passing on the acceple caring debt to the unsuspecting public. We are still paying the same amount of tax that we always were for ever diminishing services. Our tax commitment should be going down not up. And I haven't even mentioned the politicians who buy leather pants at £1,000 a pop :hehe:

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Just wondering how much direct tax do you actually pay?

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Chucking money at something - doesnt work , the whole sector needs to be looked at and a solution found re how it is funded and how it works.

Would you like to take money from the cancer research budget or the schools education budget , or happy to have your council tax increased - regardless of whether you have had a pay rise or not ? - thought not.

There is ONE budget I would like to see reigned in - and that is the overseas aid budget. March this year for example over 400 million who as good as thrown away - as they tried desperately hard to spend their 12 billion a year budget.

I would have the overseas cut in half - that woudl plug about 50% of the social care budget issue over night. BUT not until the sector has been looked at - and ALL wastage elimated as much as possible.

ps Sludge - Local councils spent eight per cent more in real terms on adult social care in 2013/14 than they did in ten years ago in 2003/4, figures from the Health and Social Care Information Centre show this quite clearly

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Regarding DFID and March. What are you referring to?

You see very few Muslims and even fewer Hindus in British care homes because it's a culturally shameful act. They feel it is a family responsibility to care for their elderly rather than the state's. Plus, particularly with regards to Hindus, in my experience, I found them to be extremely tight-fisted.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Clearly it could have been better funded at any point in recent history. But make no bones about it, this disaster has been caused by this government and the coalition one before it.
A council leader was on the radio earlier saying that their social care budget had been slashed from 400 million to 200 million in the last 5 years, through austerity measures.

This has a massive impact on the nhs ability to function correctly.

I think social care should be taken off the local authorities and given to the nhs to run, then they could run it in a way which saves money for the nhs

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I think that is one money ,nhs to run it , along with TH63 comment , I think the money they do get could be spent more wisley

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

You see very few Muslims and even fewer Hindus in British care homes because it's a culturally shameful act. They feel it is a family responsibility to care for their elderly rather than the state's. Plus, particularly with regards to Hindus, in my experience, I found them to be extremely tight-fisted.

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Tight fisted, but caring people , its the same in Europe, families are families forever , we are a society that this somewhat insular with our immediate married family, and appear to disperse the family, rather than gather in and protect .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Tight fisted, but caring people , its the same in Europe, families are families forever , we are a society that this somewhat insular with our immediate married family, and appear to disperse the family, rather than gather in and protect .

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You almost get the feeling with Brits that they are spending their inheritance before their parents bodies are cold.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

You see very few Muslims and even fewer Hindus in British care homes because it's a culturally shameful act. They feel it is a family responsibility to care for their elderly rather than the state's. Plus, particularly with regards to Hindus, in my experience, I found them to be extremely tight-fisted.

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My mate is a muslim and when his elderly mother became terminally ill he moved her in with him and his family and packed in work to look after her. He never claimed any benefits for doing this, his brothers stumped up the money for bills etc.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Clearly it could have been better funded at any point in recent history. But make no bones about it, this disaster has been caused by this government and the coalition one before it.
A council leader was on the radio earlier saying that their social care budget had been slashed from 400 million to 200 million in the last 5 years, through austerity measures.

This has a massive impact on the nhs ability to function correctly.

I think social care should be taken off the local authorities and given to the nhs to run, then they could run it in a way which saves money for the nhs

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You do know that this is devolved, right?