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Rail Union / Southern trains
Greedy 2hats using xmas as leverage or genuine safety concerns ? I'd back the union with this one, IMO there should be a guard on the train.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Agree that there needs to be a guard. But overall think the current train system is holding us back. We don't need train drivers anymore, and should be moving toward automation. The tech is there, so why not use it. A prime example of this is the london underground, where drivers are paid silly money to press a button every few minutes.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tommy31
Agree that there needs to be a guard. But overall think the current train system is holding us back. We don't need train drivers anymore, and should be moving toward automation. The tech is there, so why not use it. A prime example of this is the london underground, where drivers are paid silly money to press a button every few minutes.
Have you seen some platforms in peak hours? It can be really dangerous. The driver has enough to consider.
As for automation, it would cost billions.
Train drivers paid silly money? Gareth Bale is earning £300k a week after taxes to play a game.
Replace train drivers with robots and watch how many people will flock to the roads and buses.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Have you seen some platforms in peak hours? It can be really dangerous. The driver has enough to consider.
As for automation, it would cost billions.
Train drivers paid silly money? Gareth Bale is earning £300k a week after taxes to play a game.
Replace train drivers with robots and watch how many people will flock to the roads and buses.
seems to work on the DLR
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Have you seen some platforms in peak hours? It can be really dangerous. The driver has enough to consider.
As for automation, it would cost billions.
Train drivers paid silly money? Gareth Bale is earning £300k a week after taxes to play a game.
Replace train drivers with robots and watch how many people will flock to the roads and buses.
How many people in the world can do what Bale does to the level he does it?
We could all press a button, even you.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TruBlue
How many people in the world can do what Bale does to the level he does it?
We could all press a button, even you.
Do you really think the job just entails pressing a button?
If a train driver gets it wrong, people could get killed. If Gareth Bale gets it wrong, he may lose a sponsor.
Not too bright are you?
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Packerman
seems to work on the DLR
But those trains have drivers to open and close the doors.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
I would imagine fully automated train network would cost an absolutely enormous amount of money.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
But those trains have drivers to open and close the doors.
Yes and that person is trained to be able to manually control the train if something unexpected happens.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nelsonca61
Greedy 2hats using xmas as leverage or genuine safety concerns ? I'd back the union with this one, IMO there should be a guard on the train.
I think this is all about a backdoor reclassification of jobs. 'No jobs will be lost', but if you take away responsibilities from the guard you can more easily justify paying him min-wage.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Do you really think the job just entails pressing a button?
If a train driver gets it wrong, people could get killed. If Gareth Bale gets it wrong, he may lose a sponsor.
Not too bright are you?
Millions of people the world over are interested in Gareth Bale, not many are interested in the driver of the 7.25 to Paddington.
Not too bright are you? :biggrin:
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Spoke with an Arriva guard last week. He said he was on £30k basic plus a percentage of the monetary value of the tickets he issued (5% I think). He made around £46k gross last year. He was praying that the union would beat Southern as he thought he'd be out of a job pretty quick otherwise. I've travelled on Southern numerous times but never seen a guard. Should Arriva elbow guards then who would operate the boarding ramps for the wheelchair bound? DLR has guards but are called pilots if I recall. They can also operate the train manually if needs be.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Just tell these bastards that robots can't strike, they will soon get back to work.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
I'm on the side of the union versus greedy corporate vultures.
Mind, Robots/machines/artificial intelligence will replace most jobs in the future.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
But those trains have drivers to open and close the doors.
um, they dont employ "drivers"
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
The government wanted this strike , they have been blaming the union but it's all a con , if you will pardon the pun
This lot are worse than thatcher
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
I don't think many will be able to back up british airways workers striking over on pay over christmas.
Some defend strikes for the romantic idea that they are for the people.
When most hurt the majority far more.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
I don't think many will be able to back up british airways workers striking over on pay over christmas.
Some defend strikes for the romantic idea that they are for the people.
When most hurt the majority far more.
Either something is a public service or it is a business, can't have it both ways. British Airways is a business.
You cant expect them to work for the 'greater good' while their employer is a profit making business.
I don't really understand why people think they need to vocalise their support (or lack of) for each particular strike. This is a business disagreement between the employer and employee and, in my opinion, is none of our business. If British Airways can't fulfil their contract with passengers (a ticket for a flight) then that is the companies responsibility.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Either something is a public service or it is a business, can't have it both ways. British Airways is a business.
You cant expect them to work for the 'greater good' while their employer is a profit making business.
I don't really understand why people think they need to vocalise their support (or lack of) for each particular strike. This is a business disagreement between the employer and employee and, in my opinion, is none of our business. If British Airways can't fulfil their contract with passengers (a ticket for a flight) then that is the companies responsibility.
It goes beyond a private matter when their striking affects a large portion of the public. And they are unionised.
If I have a dispute with my employer I talk to them privately. I don't not turn up to work.
They use the affect on the normal public as leverage. That is why it is a public debate.
And in many cases it is more a dispute between a union and employer rather than the employee.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
It goes beyond a private matter when their striking affects a large portion of the public. And they are unionised.
If I have a dispute with my employer I talk to them privately. I don't not turn up to work.
They use the affect on the normal public as leverage. That is why it is a public debate.
And in many cases it is more a dispute between a union and employer rather than the employee.
So you don't believe in the right to strike at all then? That is a valid position to take but I believe will definitely lead to worse pay and worse terms and conditions for the lowest paid people in this country, the squeeze would be on leading to even greater inequality.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
So you don't believe in the right to strike at all then? That is a valid position to take but I believe will definitely lead to worse pay and worse terms and conditions for the lowest paid people in this country, the squeeze would be on leading to even greater inequality.
It is always sold as being for the general public safety. Then people fall for it and defend any strike.
British airways striking is over pay.
I am not against I'll striking. I'm against people defending all striking regardless of what it is about.
Workers are just as selfish as employers in my experience. Worse in most.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
So you don't believe in the right to strike at all then? That is a valid position to take but I believe will definitely lead to worse pay and worse terms and conditions for the lowest paid people in this country, the squeeze would be on leading to even greater inequality.
Blimey, I actually agree with you for once, Eric.
On the other hand there is defensible position which says no-one in the UK is obliged to take any job and if they're not content with it then they should feck off to secure different employment rather than cause inconvenience.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
An interesting piece about the BA strike. As usual, there is a lot more to it than initially meets the eye. BA are taking the piss out of their customers.
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...irways-strike/
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
It is always sold as being for the general public safety. Then people fall for it and defend any strike.
British airways striking is over pay.
I am not against I'll striking. I'm against people defending all striking regardless of what it is about.
Workers are just as selfish as employers in my experience. Worse in most.
You are attributing a view to me that isn't accurate.
My support for the right to strike is born from my view that if employers are allowed to make decisions based on profit and employees are forced to make decisions based on servicing the needs of the public you will end up with a gradual erosion of rights, pay and terms + conditions across the board. This will lead to greater inequality.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
I'm on the side of the union versus greedy corporate vultures.
Mind, Robots/machines/artificial intelligence will replace most jobs in the future.
People have been saying such things since the introduction of the printing press though. maybe they will be right one day.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
People have been saying such things since the introduction of the printing press though. maybe they will be right one day.
You're older than I thought.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Do you really think the job just entails pressing a button?
If a train driver gets it wrong, people could get killed. If Gareth Bale gets it wrong, he may lose a sponsor.
Not too bright are you?
That's not how salaries work, is it?
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Self driving trains will be more widespread in years to come.e, although considering the trains on the valley lines are about half a century old it'll probably be a while before it affects us.
The concerns over safety at the moment do seem to be genuine though.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Greed on both sides is causing this.
Greed of southern rail and the greed of the train drivers, they have priced themselves out of their button pushing responsibilities, and as a result of their wage demands are now putting guards out of a job aswell. Whatever happens Greed is going to win this, one way or another.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
There seems to be some envy directed towards train drivers, possibly from jealous graduates who don't possess the brain power or lack the required self-motivation to exceed what their perceived social inferiors earn.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
There seems to be some envy directed towards train drivers, possibly from jealous graduates who don't possess the brain power or lack the required self-motivation to exceed what their perceived social inferiors earn.
Not really.
More people being critical as the media portray the strikes as desperate attempts to save jobs that no longer need to exist.
Is that correct? hmmm.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
Not really.
More people being critical as the media portray the strikes as desperate attempts to save jobs that no longer need to exist.
Is that correct? hmmm.
No.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kris
Have you seen some platforms in peak hours? It can be really dangerous. The driver has enough to consider.
I didn't say anyting about not havign guards on platforms though?
As for automation, it would cost billions.
You've got to think of efficiency savings, along with long term savings. If we took this view, nobody would start any businesses because the initial overheads are big.
Train drivers paid silly money? Gareth Bale is earning £300k a week after taxes to play a game.
It's irrelevant what Bale earns. Bale can do something not many people can. A machine could do the driver's job.
Replace train drivers with robots and watch how many people will flock to the roads and buses.
Why would they do that?
Jobs are eventually going to be lost to machines that can do them. No point dragging it out at a cost of a more expense
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
So you don't believe in the right to strike at all then? That is a valid position to take but I believe will definitely lead to worse pay and worse terms and conditions for the lowest paid people in this country, the squeeze would be on leading to even greater inequality.
Very naive of you Eric.
Sadly it is not the lowest paid people in society that are striking every week. It is not the hospital porters, cleaners, cooks and security guards that are striking in the NHS it's the privileged junior doctors who are striking about pay and unsociable hours but they pretend it's all about "patient safety".
I can't think off the top of my head a genuine strike by minimum wage workers? If anyone should be striking now it should prison guards who are having to work in appalling conditions in a system that is failing. Southern Rail employees have it good compared to the vast majority.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebird since 1948
Very naive of you Eric.
Sadly it is not the lowest paid people in society that are striking every week. It is not the hospital porters, cleaners, cooks and security guards that are striking in the NHS it's the privileged junior doctors who are striking about pay and unsociable hours but they pretend it's all about "patient safety".
I can't think off the top of my head a genuine strike by minimum wage workers? If anyone should be striking now it should prison guards who are having to work in appalling conditions in a system that is failing. Southern Rail employees have it good compared to the vast majority.
I think you make a very good point,
I do think on this occasion however, that passenger safety is paramount and that a guard contributes to safety.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Trade union membership pro rata is at its lowest since 1940. Only one in every four employees is a member. Collective bargaining is next to impossible at so many workplaces. The rail unions draw strength and communality from having high rates of membership. Nevertheless, they have to jump through many hoops to legally withdraw their labour due to the machinations of the political class since Thatcher came to power. Politicians and their partners know only too well that a fractured workforce, as with the population generally, is easier to control.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Trade union membership pro rata is at its lowest since 1940. Only one in every four employees is a member. Collective bargaining is next to impossible at so many workplaces. The rail unions draw strength and communality from having high rates of membership. Nevertheless, they have to jump through many hoops to legally withdraw their labour due to the machinations of the political class since Thatcher came to power. Politicians and their partners know only too well that a fractured workforce, as with the population generally, is easier to control.
I rejoined a trade union this year, 32 years after jacking the union in.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebird since 1948
Very naive of you Eric.
Sadly it is not the lowest paid people in society that are striking every week. It is not the hospital porters, cleaners, cooks and security guards that are striking in the NHS it's the privileged junior doctors who are striking about pay and unsociable hours but they pretend it's all about "patient safety".
I can't think off the top of my head a genuine strike by minimum wage workers? If anyone should be striking now it should prison guards who are having to work in appalling conditions in a system that is failing. Southern Rail employees have it good compared to the vast majority.
How about post office counter staff who are striking this week and the BA cabin crew mentioned a few posts earlier?
And yes I agree, prison guards should be striking. Their lives are in danger because of mismanagement and calls to ban them from striking are perverse.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Trade union membership pro rata is at its lowest since 1940. Only one in every four employees is a member. Collective bargaining is next to impossible at so many workplaces. The rail unions draw strength and communality from having high rates of membership. Nevertheless, they have to jump through many hoops to legally withdraw their labour due to the machinations of the political class since Thatcher came to power. Politicians and their partners know only too well that a fractured workforce, as with the population generally, is easier to control.
Agreed. Government rhetoric on this week of strikes makes it pretty damn obvious what they are trying to do, many people still not noticing.
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Re: Rail Union / Southern trains
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Trade union membership pro rata is at its lowest since 1940. Only one in every four employees is a member. Collective bargaining is next to impossible at so many workplaces. The rail unions draw strength and communality from having high rates of membership. Nevertheless, they have to jump through many hoops to legally withdraw their labour due to the machinations of the political class since Thatcher came to power. Politicians and their partners know only too well that a fractured workforce, as with the population generally, is easier to control.
Unions dont protect the working class any more. They protect the middle class.
If they did genuinely support the working class then people might support them a bit more. But its not, its middle earners that strike. couldnt give a shit about them.