Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

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06-04-17, 10:52
Blue in the Face

Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

... And does Swansea's fate effect Cardiff in any way? i.e fanbase, youth recruitment etc...
06-04-17, 10:54
qccfc

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

... And does this effect Cardiff in any way?

Yeah, why not lets have games against them bigger crowds, good atmosphere.

It wont affect Cardiff or Wales in any way. If anything with the wage bill hit Swansea will have to take it will give more opputunities to local young players.
06-04-17, 11:02
Rjk

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Not bothered either way, i do think it's inevitable eventually for a club that small to go down, they are competing with clubs with much bigger budgets and after a few years of pay rises all their budget is suddenly getting chewed up by senior players who's output is rapidly declining.
When they do finally go down they will have to be very careful how they manage that adjustment.
06-04-17, 11:03
Blue in the Face

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qccfc

Yeah, why not lets have games against them bigger crowds, good atmosphere.

It wont affect Cardiff or Wales in any way. If anything with the wage bill hit Swansea will have to take it will give more opputunities to local young players.

Interesting point on young players. So from a Welsh national team perspective, is it better that the likes of Connor Roberts, Shephard, Roden, Hedges and Cullen have a better chance of making the Swansea first team? Does it matter much what club they play for though? Is it not better that Swansea have PL money they can pump into their academy to keep them in category one?

And does the interest in Welsh football dip without a PL team? Forgetting our allegiances to Cardiff, does Welsh football really benefit with them going down?
06-04-17, 11:05
Blue in the Face

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjk

Not bothered either way, i do think it's inevitable eventually for a club that small to go down, they are competing with clubs with much bigger budgets and after a few years of pay rises all their budget is suddenly getting chewed up by senior players who's output is rapidly declining.
When they do finally go down they will have to be very careful how they manage that adjustment.

Not falling for my binary code dialectical manipulation eh? :hehe:
06-04-17, 11:10
qccfc

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

Interesting point on young players. So from a Welsh national team perspective, is it better that the likes of Connor Roberts, Shephard, Roden, Hedges and Cullen have a better chance of making the Swansea first team? Does it matter much what club they play for though? Is it not better that Swansea have PL money they can pump into their academy to keep them in category one?

And does the interest in Welsh football dip without a PL team? Forgetting our allegiances to Cardiff, does Welsh football really benefit with them going down?

The majority of Welsh football fans support Manchester United and Liverpool.

If you look at the current Welsh set-up all the players supplied by Swansea and Cardiff are pre-premiership players, when there was a path through for players to get into the first team and develop. (Davies, Ledley, Collins, Ramsey, Earnshaw, Allen, Gunter).
Welsh players are usually Welsh so are more than likely to come through at their local clubs of Swansea and Cardiff. You will still get the odd players making it at clubs like Norwich or Southampton, or the legacy players at English clubs. However the Welsh team is at its strongest, when the league clubs are developing. Neither are currently developing players.

As a Cardiff fan i dont hate Swansea. However i dont wish them well either. Id like a relegation to bring them closer to us. I want us to have bragging rights over them.
06-04-17, 11:19
TH63

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

I'd rather us both playing in the same league, but us going up not them coming down. I dislike the feckers but when alls said and done they're still Welsh, so while I laughed last night, I don't wish them any ill will.
Now Bristol City.......
06-04-17, 11:19
Blue in the Face

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qccfc

The majority of Welsh football fans support Manchester United and Liverpool.

Isn't this a result of generations of the Welsh clubs being in the doldrums?

The real answer to all this is Swansea stay where they are and Cardiff establish themselves in our natural position as a Champions League team

Quote:

Originally Posted by qccfc

...Welsh players are usually Welsh...

:hehe::hehe:
06-04-17, 11:23
qccfc

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

Isn't this a result of generations of the Welsh clubs being in the doldrums?

The real answer to all this is Swansea stay where they are and Cardiff establish themselves in our natural position as a Champions League team

:hehe::hehe:

For the clubs sake its better to be playing in the top leagues together.

However does that benefit Wales, with the money floating around in the Premier League you suddenly become a sign and sell team, signing talent because you do not have the time to develop it. I would say that the success that Wales is having now is because a crop of players came through the two different youth structures at the same time, and provided a base of players that we have never really had before.

Anyway, we are not getting promoted this year, so f**k em.
06-04-17, 11:27
Ainsley Harriott

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

http://rolphandfloyd.co.uk/wp-conten...2047131540.jpg
06-04-17, 12:19
TH63

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Crap poll btw - where's the "Couldn't care less" and LFW options?
06-04-17, 15:37
Blue in the Face

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qccfc

For the clubs sake its better to be playing in the top leagues together.

However does that benefit Wales, with the money floating around in the Premier League you suddenly become a sign and sell team, signing talent because you do not have the time to develop it. I would say that the success that Wales is having now is because a crop of players came through the two different youth structures at the same time, and provided a base of players that we have never really had before.

Anyway, we are not getting promoted this year, so f**k em.

There's an interesting quote from Osian Roberts in "Don't Take Me Home" where he talks about facilities, training grounds etc vs the rainy climate of Wales. He makes the point that Welsh football has had to invest (and needs to further) to give kids a place to play. So if we side with his argument, then the bigger the economy for football in Wales, the better.

I'm a little sceptical that you can just throw money at these things and that indoor football spaces would make that much difference. I do think kids having no spaces to play would be more of a problem for the urban areas in bigger cities like London and Birmingham due to access to parks. But I do subscribe to the education side of things and the benefits of good technical coaching.

But simply interest in the sport itself is key. It's an impossible thing to measure but I expect that Wales will benefit in decades to come because of the achievements of last summer.

I guess the question in the poll could be re-framed slightly - Do you love Welsh football more than you hate Swansea? It seems the board has answered. :hehe:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TH63

Crap poll btw - where's the "Couldn't care less" and LFW options?

See my answer to Rjk above.

This is definitely a crap poll. Manipulative in it's lack of choice. Totally un-original. And lacking LFW. But we must have a "Do you want Swansea to go down" survey every lunar month :hehe:
06-04-17, 15:41
qccfc

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

There's an interesting quote from Osian Roberts in "Don't Take Me Home" where he talks about facilities, training grounds etc vs the rainy climate of Wales. He makes the point that Welsh football has had to invest (and needs to further) to give kids a place to play. So if we side with his argument, then the bigger the economy for football in Wales, the better.

I'm a little sceptical that you can just throw money at these things and that indoor football spaces would make that much difference. I do think kids having no spaces to play would be more of a problem for the urban areas in bigger cities like London and Birmingham due to access to parks. But I do subscribe to the education side of things and the benefits of good technical coaching.

But simply interest in the sport itself is key. It's an impossible thing to measure but I expect that Wales will benefit in decades to come because of the achievements of last summer.

I guess the question in the poll could be re-framed slightly - Do you love Welsh football more than you hate Swansea? It seems the board has answered. :hehe:

See my answer to Rjk above.

This is definitely a crap poll. Manipulative in it's lack of choice. Totally un-original. And lacking LFW. But we must have a "Do you want Swansea to go down" survey every lunar month :hehe:

The problem is that the Welsh clubs do not throw money at the grass roots game in Wales they throw money at players wages.

Its the FaW who really need to invest in the game, and they have been making noises that they are going to do that.

Im seeing very little at the moment that Swansea in the premier league are doing a lot for the national game, they are currently a sign and sell club, and so are we.
06-04-17, 15:53
life on mars

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

If if wasn't Swansea I would feel somewhat for a club built and run in the right way, however to maintain thier status in the cash demonising league they gambled on American money.

Sadly they showed us up in staying up in a very tough environment, we put our destiny in the hands of a very naive bunch who failed us and Wales .

Imagine two Welsh clubs punching thier weight in the top league in the world, Derby games with big viewing figures , and young top players wanting to be part of it , I can't help think it would have benefited the whole not just the few.
06-04-17, 15:53
Blue in the Face

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qccfc

The problem is that the Welsh clubs do not throw money at the grass roots game in Wales they throw money at players wages.

Its the FaW who really need to invest in the game, and they have been making noises that they are going to do that.

Im seeing very little at the moment that Swansea in the premier league are doing a lot for the national game, they are currently a sign and sell club, and so are we.

Good points on the FaW. They've made record profits this past year so bodes well. I'm sure I've read that Swansea have invested quite a lot of youth training facilities in their catchment area though.

Take your point on there being no immediate evidence on national team benefits because of Swansea's PL presence. Hard to argue against that. My point is we may see benefits fifteen to twenty years down the line because a spike in interest in football in Wales right now. But we can't measure these things, only hypothesise.

What we really need is for Gareth Bale to stop having daughters and to have a eleven sons on the trot. In Cardiff.
06-04-17, 15:58
qccfc

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

Good points on the FaW. They've made record profits this past year so bodes well. I'm sure I've read that Swansea have invested quite a lot of youth training facilities in their catchment area though.

Take your point on there being no immediate evidence on national team benefits because of Swansea's PL presence. Hard to argue against that. My point is we may see benefits fifteen to twenty years down the line because a spike in interest in football in Wales right now. But we can't measure these things, only hypothesise.

What we really need is for Gareth Bale to stop having daughters and to have a eleven sons on the trot. In Cardiff.

Its hard to see what the evidence will be 20 years down the line, what i see in the playground now is 20 kids wanting to be Gareth Bale, but them still supporting Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. The issue we see is kids supporting the teams their dads are.

The kids are still saying Swansea and Cardiff are rubbish, but they are excited by this superstar playing for Wales.

Cardiff and Swansea will invest in facilities, but they are only after 20 kids a year each, and outside that there is very little for them to fall into. At the moment it is very difficult for an academy product to break into the first team. Whereas a large percentage of the currently Welsh team came through at the very same clubs playing at a lower level.
06-04-17, 16:10
Charlie

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

As this thread has moved to the development of youth players,do you think todays news will help?

http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016...s-3661577.aspx
06-04-17, 16:33
kingbillyboy

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by qccfc

The kids are still saying Swansea and Cardiff are rubbish, but they are excited by this superstar playing for Wales..

my 8 year old boy is welsh and loves cardiff more than any epl shite. he thinks scottish football is shite thoug and i have had words on more than once.
06-04-17, 16:36
PerryJason

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingbillyboy

my 8 year old boy is welsh and loves cardiff more than any epl shite. he thinks scottish football is shite thoug and i have had words on more than once.

I'd rather Swansea stay up and Celtics feeder club Rangers United (or whatever they are called) go out of business for good. Confused clowns!!
06-04-17, 16:46
life on mars

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

As this thread has moved to the development of youth players,do you think todays news will help?

http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016...s-3661577.aspx

It's a start but we need to stop the greedy cash cow clubs grabbing talent for the sake of it , there should be a postcode ruling for accademy players under 18 not being able to play for anyone but thier nearest foot league club , any player taken from accademy between the age of 18 and 21 should compensate that club by 2 million as a minimum ,that money ring fenced for development facilities only and shown on the account books , anything over 2 million us the receiving clubs profit.
06-04-17, 16:51
kingbillyboy

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerryJason

I'd rather Swansea stay up and Celtics feeder club Rangers United (or whatever they are called) go out of business for good. Confused clowns!!

give me 1 example of when rangers have ever sold a player to them ya ****ing moon unit. i can wait.
06-04-17, 16:59
The Alien

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingbillyboy

give me 1 example of when rangers have ever sold a player to them ya ****ing moon unit. i can wait.

Are you a catholic kingbilly??? Just asking like
06-04-17, 17:04
jon1959

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingbillyboy

give me 1 example of when rangers have ever sold a player to them ya ****ing moon unit. i can wait.

Willie Kivlichan.

Rangers to Celtic transfer in 1907. A notional fee as it was a swap deal - but a transfer nonetheless. Then the Rangers 'culture' kicked in and it was all union flags, red hands, GSTQ, 'no surrender' and all the rest of that mindless sectarianism that we all know and some love.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Kivlichan

Granted they usually have to serve time somewhere else before making the move!

https://betting.betfair.com/betting/...51113-629.html
06-04-17, 17:21
Packerman

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Alfie Conn via spurs
06-04-17, 17:34
jeepster

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by life on mars

It's a start but we need to stop the greedy cash cow clubs grabbing talent for the sake of it , there should be a postcode ruling for accademy players under 18 not being able to play for anyone but thier nearest foot league club , any player taken from accademy between the age of 18 and 21 should compensate that club by 2 million as a minimum ,that money ring fenced for development facilities only and shown on the account books , anything over 2 million us the receiving clubs profit.

If only :thumbup:
06-04-17, 17:42
kingbillyboy

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alien

Are you a catholic kingbilly??? Just asking like

are you ill or something
06-04-17, 17:44
kingbillyboy

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon1959

Willie Kivlichan.

Rangers to Celtic transfer in 1907. A notional fee as it was a swap deal - but a transfer nonetheless. Then the Rangers 'culture' kicked in and it was all union flags, red hands, GSTQ, 'no surrender' and all the rest of that mindless sectarianism that we all know and some love.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Kivlichan

Granted they usually have to serve time somewhere else before making the move!

https://betting.betfair.com/betting/...51113-629.html

its not sectarian it is culture.

1907 doesnt really count ether.
06-04-17, 18:10
PerryJason

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alien

Are you a catholic kingbilly??? Just asking like

Of course he is!!:hehe:he luvs boys mind so don't befriend the confused clown!!
06-04-17, 19:01
Chris Pontprennau Blues

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

to my Swansea City friends, my official reply is that I would enjoy a Welsh derby again
06-04-17, 21:42
ken smith

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by life on mars

It's a start but we need to stop the greedy cash cow clubs grabbing talent for the sake of it , there should be a postcode ruling for accademy players under 18 not being able to play for anyone but thier nearest foot league club , any player taken from accademy between the age of 18 and 21 should compensate that club by 2 million as a minimum ,that money ring fenced for development facilities only and shown on the account books , anything over 2 million us the receiving clubs profit.

What if their local club doesn't want them?
06-04-17, 21:56
Blue in the Face

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by life on mars

It's a start but we need to stop the greedy cash cow clubs grabbing talent for the sake of it , there should be a postcode ruling for accademy players under 18 not being able to play for anyone but thier nearest foot league club , any player taken from accademy between the age of 18 and 21 should compensate that club by 2 million as a minimum ,that money ring fenced for development facilities only and shown on the account books , anything over 2 million us the receiving clubs profit.

Think England need to fail in a few more major tournements before the FA see sense and revamp the system away from the Darwinian nonsense they have now. That said, the PL elites run the FA so it might not happen anyway
06-04-17, 22:01
Heathblue

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue in the Face

... And does Swansea's fate effect Cardiff in any way? i.e fanbase, youth recruitment etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLo8JRf409g
07-04-17, 21:53
G rangetown Blue

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Hell yeah!!
07-04-17, 22:26
Baloo

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Yep. Wanting your local rivals to fail is all part of the fun.
07-04-17, 22:48
Former Labour leader

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Hope Jacks stay up for the sake of Welsh football, but not really bothered. The Wurzels, on the other hand, I hope the kents go out of business.
07-04-17, 23:04
NYCBlue

Re: Swansea - Do you want them to go down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by life on mars

If if wasn't Swansea I would feel somewhat for a club built and run in the right way, however to maintain thier status in the cash demonising league they gambled on American money.

Sadly they showed us up in staying up in a very tough environment, we put our destiny in the hands of a very naive bunch who failed us and Wales .

Imagine two Welsh clubs punching thier weight in the top league in the world, Derby games with big viewing figures , and young top players wanting to be part of it , I can't help think it would have benefited the whole not just the few.

I don't think it has anything to do with gambling on American money. They were always going to go down. Small club, punching above their weight, stranded 3 hours away from their nearest Premier League rival, unable to hang on to decent players, managers and working against the odds to attract new players. I'm impressed they had such a good run.

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