Future Sanitised Football

Was thinking on why I have attended City games over the years, and decided there were a number of reasons , from a belonging and an allegiance to my home town , being a big footy fan,both in playing and watching , and importantly the attraction of match day banter,edginess, volatile atmospheres , humorous /extraordinary chant/ songs , the later few listed in bold could disappear as we move to a more sanitsied sport ,and PC correct world , question is would the removal of the banter ,risky edginess, stop you attending ,as in my view it brings a unique attraction ,that does not exist in many sports , other than perhaps certain cricket events.

With the odd exception, most of the things you've highlighted have long since been absent from City games. As far as atmosphere goes, I've noticed recently that there seem to be quite a lot of young kids with their parents in the Canton / Ninian stands. Hopefully as they grow up into older teenagers they will replace the lads that used to create the new terrace chants that hardly seem to be doing it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Barry Shitpeas

With the odd exception, most of the things you've highlighted have long since been absent from City games. As far as atmosphere goes, I've noticed recently that there seem to be quite a lot of young kids with their parents in the Canton / Ninian stands. Hopefully as they grow up into older teenagers they will replace the lads that used to create the new terrace chants that hardly seem to be doing it anymore.

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Video refs are going to see me lose interest fast.

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Originally Posted by Kris

Video refs are going to see me lose interest fast.

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I don't particularly want video refs but I believe the only way video refs could work in football, is if the fourth official has a monitor and gives quick advice to the ref over a mic. The ref can then choose to take the advice or not. As far as time taken, it would be no different to the ref consulting the linesman and the crowd wouldn't even be aware of it.

What I don't know want is the ridiculous situation you have in rugby where an already stop - start game is slowed down even more as the refs seem to be more and more reliant on the TMO.

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Originally Posted by Barry Shitpeas

I don't particularly want video refs but I believe the only way video refs could work in football, is if the fourth official has a monitor and gives quick advice to the ref over a mic. The ref can then choose to take the advice or not. As far as time taken, it would be no different to the ref consulting the linesman and the crowd wouldn't even be aware of it.

What I don't know want is the ridiculous situation you have in rugby where an already stop - start game is slowed down even more as the refs seem to be more and more reliant on the TMO.

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How many of the great talking moments of football down the years have involved controversial refereeing decisions?

Take that away, and the game is sanitised to the point of dullness.

Its the frailties , controversies and blinding passion sets the sport apart from others.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Its the frailties , controversies and blinding passion sets the sport apart from others.

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The media has spoken, and decided that all we want are the correct decisions every time. Refereeing standards are improving. Human error is part of the fun, whether it's a missed penalty, a bad back pass or the linesman missing an offside.

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Originally Posted by Kris

The media has spoken, and decided that all we want are the correct decisions every time. Refereeing standards are improving. Human error is part of the fun, whether it's a missed penalty, a bad back pass or the linesman missing an offside.

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I kind of agree with you Kris, that makes a change.

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Originally Posted by Barry Shitpeas

I don't particularly want video refs but I believe the only way video refs could work in football, is if the fourth official has a monitor and gives quick advice to the ref over a mic. The ref can then choose to take the advice or not. As far as time taken, it would be no different to the ref consulting the linesman and the crowd wouldn't even be aware of it.

What I don't know want is the ridiculous situation you have in rugby where an already stop - start game is slowed down even more as the refs seem to be more and more reliant on the TMO.

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Agreed on the rugby comment, although the better referees tend to make most of the decisions and get on with it (Nigel Owens springs to mind), however, I have noticed more and more rugby referees playing safe and going the TMO for almost everything. Could that eventually happen in football ?

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Originally Posted by DubaiDai

Agreed on the rugby comment, although the better referees tend to make most of the decisions and get on with it (Nigel Owens springs to mind), however, I have noticed more and more rugby referees playing safe and going the TMO for almost everything. Could that eventually happen in football ?

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It also happens in cricket a lot. Although the current offside rule is gobbledegook as far as I'm concerned and is a dangerous development away from what I feel is one of the main reasons why football is truly the world game (it's rules are simple to understand), it's still nowhere near as complicated a game as rugby and cricket can be. I think the authorities have got things right at the moment. The officials need some help when it comes to whether the ball crossed the line or not decisions, but nothing else. Everyone loves to have a moan at a ref or linseman, but they get the overwhelming majority of decisions right - what would help them more would be a move away from the current vogue for TV companies trying to turn even the most minor of incidents into some sort of controversy which "the experts in the studio" have to discuss at half time or at the end of the game and a proper clampdown on divers - I'd love to see an official who was convinced someone was diving to try and get his side a penalty be able to award a spot kick at the other end of the pitch, but I think that may be too radical for the law makers :hehe:.

As for the subject of the thread, I don't miss that feeling that I may be in danger of being attacked at a football game at all. I do miss the sort of match day atmospheres that seemed to be much more common a decade ago than they are now though, but the best atmospheres I've experienced in the new ground have been for a few Wales matches and City games against Man City, Leicester, Palace and a couple of Swansea derbies, only the latter two have had that "edge" to them where the atmosphere could be described as volatile in terms of feeling because of who the opposition were.

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Originally Posted by Kris

Video refs are going to see me lose interest fast.

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Has Voncent Tan got a job as a video ref?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Was thinking on why I have attended City games over the years, and decided there were a number of reasons , from a belonging and an allegiance to my home town , being a big footy fan,both in playing and watching , and importantly the attraction of match day banter,edginess, volatile atmospheres , humorous /extraordinary chant/ songs , the later few listed in bold could disappear as we move to a more sanitsied sport ,and PC correct world , question is would the removal of the banter ,risky edginess, stop you attending ,as in my view it brings a unique attraction ,that does not exist in many sports , other than perhaps certain cricket events.

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I do miss the edge football had for me to a small degree, as I have got older I have perhaps become sanitised and prefer the comfort of a nice bar in the warm at halftime to someone spilling a beer down my leg and getting jostled from pillar to post. Whilst I am still capable of getting animated I tend to see the futility of shouting abuse at players and opposing fans who cant actually hear you.

I guess I have adapted to the new age of "jolly hockey sticks football"?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Was thinking on why I have attended City games over the years, and decided there were a number of reasons , from a belonging and an allegiance to my home town , being a big footy fan,both in playing and watching , and importantly the attraction of match day banter,edginess, volatile atmospheres , humorous /extraordinary chant/ songs , the later few listed in bold could disappear as we move to a more sanitsied sport ,and PC correct world , question is would the removal of the banter ,risky edginess, stop you attending ,as in my view it brings a unique attraction ,that does not exist in many sports , other than perhaps certain cricket events.

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in the late 80's early 90's if the game had been the same as it is today, i would never have got involved in it, everything you have in bold is what attracted me to the game and sadly has now disappeared

as a benchmark, look at the torquay game in 93 ? ? ? that had it all, from the moment you got of the train to the time you got of the train in cardiff, it had it all, good times :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

I do miss the edge football had for me to a small degree, as I have got older I have perhaps become sanitised and prefer the comfort of a nice bar in the warm at halftime to someone spilling a beer down my leg and getting jostled from pillar to post. Whilst I am still capable of getting animated I tend to see the futility of shouting abuse at players and opposing fans who cant actually hear you.

I guess I have adapted to the new age of "jolly hockey sticks football"?

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Yes I think you summed up very well the environment along with owning an allotment , and consuming port and cheese, lol

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Originally Posted by blue matt

in the late 80's early 90's if the game had been the same as it is today, i would never have got involved in it, everything you have in bold is what attracted me to the game and sadly has now disappeared

as a benchmark, look at the torquay game in 93 ? ? ? that had it all, from the moment you got of the train to the time you got of the train in cardiff, it had it all, good times :thumbup:

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I've become reconciled to believing that I think differently to most other City fans, so it's probably me, but I don't get how any one who claims to be a supporter of Cardiff City can look back on a match we lost and say it "had it all".

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

It also happens in cricket a lot. Although the current offside rule is gobbledegook as far as I'm concerned and is a dangerous development away from what I feel is one of the main reasons why football is truly the world game (it's rules are simple to understand), it's still nowhere near as complicated a game as rugby and cricket can be. I think the authorities have got things right at the moment. The officials need some help when it comes to whether the ball crossed the line or not decisions, but nothing else. Everyone loves to have a moan at a ref or linseman, but they get the overwhelming majority of decisions right - what would help them more would be a move away from the current vogue for TV companies trying to turn even the most minor of incidents into some sort of controversy which "the experts in the studio" have to discuss at half time or at the end of the game and a proper clampdown on divers - I'd love to see an official who was convinced someone was diving to try and get his side a penalty be able to award a spot kick at the other end of the pitch, but I think that may be too radical for the law makers :hehe:.

As for the subject of the thread, I don't miss that feeling that I may be in danger of being attacked at a football game at all. I do miss the sort of match day atmospheres that seemed to be much more common a decade ago than they are now though, but the best atmospheres I've experienced in the new ground have been for a few Wales matches and City games against Man City, Leicester, Palace and a couple of Swansea derbies, only the latter two have had that "edge" to them where the atmosphere could be described as volatile in terms of feeling because of who the opposition were.

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Totally agree with you here Bob.

There does seem to be an obsession with trying to make a controversy over even the most minor of incidents.

Then again, it gives them something to talk about in the studio which is easier than actually analysing tactics and gameplay (the fact that most of these pundits would be exposed as clueless is probably just a coincidence?)

On the subject of diving, I've been saying it for years that if the authorities wanted to clamp down then they could easily do it - an automatic five match ban for anyone diving (anywhere on the pitch) would stop it instantly. In the age of video technology you could easily look at incidents afterwards that were missed by the ref during the game. It would also help if pundits stopped making excuses such as 'there's contact, he's entitled to go down, he's looking for it etc. so as not to risk criticising certain players due to their nationality or club allegiance.

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Originally Posted by Dr Lecter

Totally agree with you here Bob.

There does seem to be an obsession with trying to make a controversy over even the most minor of incidents.

Then again, it gives them something to talk about in the studio which is easier than actually analysing tactics and gameplay (the fact that most of these pundits would be exposed as clueless is probably just a coincidence?)

On the subject of diving, I've been saying it for years that if the authorities wanted to clamp down then they could easily do it - an automatic five match ban for anyone diving (anywhere on the pitch) would stop it instantly. In the age of video technology you could easily look at incidents afterwards that were missed by the ref during the game. It would also help if pundits stopped making excuses such as 'there's contact, he's entitled to go down, he's looking for it etc. so as not to risk criticising certain players due to their nationality or club allegiance.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Dr Lecter

Totally agree with you here Bob.

There does seem to be an obsession with trying to make a controversy over even the most minor of incidents.

Then again, it gives them something to talk about in the studio which is easier than actually analysing tactics and gameplay (the fact that most of these pundits would be exposed as clueless is probably just a coincidence?)

On the subject of diving, I've been saying it for years that if the authorities wanted to clamp down then they could easily do it - an automatic five match ban for anyone diving (anywhere on the pitch) would stop it instantly. In the age of video technology you could easily look at incidents afterwards that were missed by the ref during the game. It would also help if pundits stopped making excuses such as 'there's contact, he's entitled to go down, he's looking for it etc. so as not to risk criticising certain players due to their nationality or club allegiance.

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You can't really have it both ways though. If you want the panelists to stop going on about single incidents in games like suspect dives (which I agree with by the way), then I can't see that giving month long bans is going to help. That will just give the two second incident even more importance and they'll talk about it more. Should he banned? What about this one in another game? What if we compare it to this one from November?

Imagine if Hazard had dived last night and got a five match ban, that would be it for the season for him. Pundits and journos would be talking about it everywhere you turned.

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Originally Posted by lardy

You can't really have it both ways though. If you want the panelists to stop going on about single incidents in games like suspect dives (which I agree with by the way), then I can't see that giving month long bans is going to help. That will just give the two second incident even more importance and they'll talk about it more. Should he banned? What about this one in another game? What if we compare it to this one from November?

Imagine if Hazard had dived last night and got a five match ban, that would be it for the season for him. Pundits and journos would be talking about it everywhere you turned.

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After the first 5 game ban you would see a dramatic change in players diving ability. Its cheating , simple.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

After the first 5 game ban you would see a dramatic change in players diving ability. Its cheating , simple.

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Diving isn't a simple yes or no so I doubt that, but my point is that it would become a massive talking point if there were bans of that length.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Was thinking on why I have attended City games over the years, and decided there were a number of reasons , from a belonging and an allegiance to my home town , being a big footy fan,both in playing and watching , and importantly the attraction of match day banter,edginess, volatile atmospheres , humorous /extraordinary chant/ songs , the later few listed in bold could disappear as we move to a more sanitsied sport ,and PC correct world , question is would the removal of the banter ,risky edginess, stop you attending ,as in my view it brings a unique attraction ,that does not exist in many sports , other than perhaps certain cricket events.

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From what I'm being told and what I've experienced albeit not for a few years it's happened already,football for me was all of the things you've mentioned and importantly a time when you could let off steam after the frustrations of modern life,l was talking to a relative of mine who told me if you do any of those things know then the stewards descend on you, it's football for gods sake

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Was thinking on why I have attended City games over the years, and decided there were a number of reasons , from a belonging and an allegiance to my home town , being a big footy fan,both in playing and watching , and importantly the attraction of match day banter,edginess, volatile atmospheres , humorous /extraordinary chant/ songs , the later few listed in bold could disappear as we move to a more sanitsied sport ,and PC correct world , question is would the removal of the banter ,risky edginess, stop you attending ,as in my view it brings a unique attraction ,that does not exist in many sports , other than perhaps certain cricket events.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

in the late 80's early 90's if the game had been the same as it is today, i would never have got involved in it, everything you have in bold is what attracted me to the game and sadly has now disappeared

as a benchmark, look at the torquay game in 93 ? ? ? that had it all, from the moment you got of the train to the time you got of the train in cardiff, it had it all, good times :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I've become reconciled to believing that I think differently to most other City fans, so it's probably me, but I don't get how any one who claims to be a supporter of Cardiff City can look back on a match we lost and say it "had it all".

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my post was in reply to the OP ( whom iI quoted )

the Torquay game had all of the points he mentioned " match day banter,edginess, volatile atmospheres , humorous /extraordinary chant/ songs " if you failed to see it or appreciate it at the time, you were doing something wrong

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

After the first 5 game ban you would see a dramatic change in players diving ability. Its cheating , simple.

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Was talking about this the other day and my suggestion was a 5 game ban, for any 'diving' or gross exaggeration of any contact made.

If it's identified during the game, give an automatic red card.

Exaggeration following the slightest of contacts is just as bad.

I recall Rooney getting a penalty and the keeper sent off for a minimal toe to toe contact. Rooney was looking for it and was already in the process of diving prior to the minimal contact.

Players should be embarrassed by this type of behaviour, when you consider how players of yesteryear would get kicked from pillar to post and would still try to ride the tackles and get up without any fuss.

There has to be a happy medium, protect the players from bad tackles and protect the game from cheating.

For any further offences give, for example a 10 game ban.

It would stop in an instant.

Also introduce that by playing in ALL British leagues, they accept that when the player is not eligible for work due to his cheating, then their wages for those 5 or 10 games be put into a fund for developing young British players throughout Britain.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

my post was in reply to the OP ( whom iI quoted )

the Torquay game had all of the points he mentioned " match day banter,edginess, volatile atmospheres , humorous /extraordinary chant/ songs " if you failed to see it or appreciate it at the time, you were doing something wrong

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That's the game where some of our supporters spent all match slaughtering a player who later killed himself after he had come out as gay wasn't it. What great banter, it must have been almost as good as singing "Gas a Jack" about another suicide victim - I failed to appreciate both at the time, but it didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong, I just wanted my team to win.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

That's the game where some of our supporters spent all match slaughtering a player who later killed himself after he had come out as gay wasn't it. What great banter, it must have been almost as good as singing "Gas a Jack" about another suicide victim - I failed to appreciate both at the time, but it didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong, I just wanted my team to win.

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he killed himself as he was accused to sexual assault of a 17yr old boy in the USA and escaped back to England as he knew that being gay in maryland ( i think, i could check, but on my phone ) was at the time illegal and he thought he would not face a fair trial

We all take different things out of football, you want your team to win, others also want their team to win, but are happy with a little banter

Talking of Banter on that day, the blond winger from Torquay who when city fans started chanting " are you Justins boyfriend " did the camp teapot stance everytime he came up to take the corner, i guess he saw it as banter aswell

different times back then i guess, football fans were not so precious

I've been to sporting events all over the World, and CCS is the only venue that I've ever been asked to 'open your jacket' before entering.
It's as if they are actually trying to piss people off.
Stewards down there are absolutely ruining the match day experience with their over the top antics. put a hi viz on some of these guys (AND woman!) and they make complete fools of themselves.

I'm not so sure I'd be happy with "volatile" but I guess that depends on your definition.
Banter is great and chants/songs can be funny without being offensive - personally I cringe every time I hear the "land of your fathers" song, but that's just me I guess.
Also agree with the open coats thing - I remember dragging myself down there in January with a stinking cold, pissing down with rain ticket in one hand cup of coffee in the other and being asked to open my jacket - I'm a middle aged fat bloke and one look at me would tell you I'm not carrying anything offensive and if I were it would be in a pocket, if your going to check people for weapons, flares or horror of horrid a plastic bottle of pop with the lid on then at least check properly.
As someone else said, I'd love to see divers get a straight red and/or a long ban, but it's probably unfair to put that much pressure on a ref if he gets it wrong.

I don't mind the new football experience that much although there are bits that I can get annoyed about.
However, compared to the mess that was the mid 70's through to the renaissance of football ( allegedly after Italy 1990) in the UK then I definitely don't mind what we now have.
The grounds and facilities were atrocious, even as an innocent the chances of being caught up in something nasty were reasonably high, especially away from home and the general treatment from the railway staff, police, stewards was awful.
If you thrived on all that era included then good luck to you but I miss those days like I miss a hangover.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

he killed himself as he was accused to sexual assault of a 17yr old boy in the USA and escaped back to England as he knew that being gay in maryland ( i think, i could check, but on my phone ) was at the time illegal and he thought he would not face a fair trial

We all take different things out of football, you want your team to win, others also want their team to win, but are happy with a little banter

Talking of Banter on that day, the blond winger from Torquay who when city fans started chanting " are you Justins boyfriend " did the camp teapot stance everytime he came up to take the corner, i guess he saw it as banter aswell

different times back then i guess, football fans were not so precious

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Can count yourself lucky you got the chance to get the bantz in before he killed himself.

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Originally Posted by TH63

I'm not so sure I'd be happy with "volatile" but I guess that depends on your definition.
Banter is great and chants/songs can be funny without being offensive - personally I cringe every time I hear the "land of your fathers" song, but that's just me I guess.
Also agree with the open coats thing - I remember dragging myself down there in January with a stinking cold, pissing down with rain ticket in one hand cup of coffee in the other and being asked to open my jacket - I'm a middle aged fat bloke and one look at me would tell you I'm not carrying anything offensive and if I were it would be in a pocket, if your going to check people for weapons, flares or horror of horrid a plastic bottle of pop with the lid on then at least check properly.
As someone else said, I'd love to see divers get a straight red and/or a long ban, but it's probably unfair to put that much pressure on a ref if he gets it wrong.

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Diving has to be stamped out, and it's easy to do if a ref's panel look at replays (after the game) and retrospectively apply a ban or even points deduction. It would take some guts from the FA or FL though.