So who are you voting for next week?
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So who are you voting for next week?
Honestly not sure if I'll bother tbh
I live in a safe seat, my vote is nothing more than a swing-o-meter statistic. I will vote Labour, Corbyn speaks sense.
A similar poll was started on Cardiff City Forum (AKA ****) a week or so ago.
The difference there was that the National Front and BNP were given equal billing with the parties you selected.
Just saying! Different audience.
I will vote Labour but the Lib Dem (Nick Clegg) will get in.
Isn't this a borderline politics post? I thought this part of the message board was reserved for reality tv, crisps, what are you drinking, hot birds, and the odd bit of footie?
I appreciate that you may not want to answer this but did you also vote for Brexit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
I didn't but am told I have to accept it and I have. But the thought of Mr Corbyn and his pals leading us out of Europe and finding new friends around the Globe would be a step to far.
May, on the other hand...Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY
If Jeremy Paxman was doing the negotiating for Europe who would have fared better -Corbyn or MayQuote:
Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY
Is a less worse option!Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi
Why do you think that? I've read that she's regarded (by those who have experience in international negotiation) as a nightmare waiting to happen. At least Labour have some savvy on their side.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY
I voted to remain. Theresa May is courting the Saudis, Dr Fox claims we have lots in common with the Martial Law declaring Rodrigo Diterte. We are flogging our values to the lowest bidders.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY
Brexit is happening, it will be shit, we will all suffer. But, only 15 odd million wanted to remain, and /some of those who voted to leave did so to save the NHS.
Now we are heading for the worst kind of Brexit, and anyone would think our vote to leave was more like 60%-40% and not the 48-52 result we got!
I'm voting ABC - Anyone But Conservative.
See how to boot the Tories out here for your constituency:
https://www.tactical2017.com
I wasn't fussed on corbyn and wanted a more moderate Labour leader.
However he's grown on me during this campaign, he's acted with integrity, professionalism (interview on women's hour aside ) and he's offered some postive Policies.
The Conservatives and their shameful propagandists have proposed nothing but fear of Corbyn, they are meant to be he government and standing up for themselves but a clear example of their pathetic campaign was Boris Johnson having a childish spat on Sky news.
Utterly pathetic. David Cameron in comparison looks a world class statesman compared to this lot.
I agree with you. I have been conditioned to believe Corbyn is bad, can't lead, and Socialism will cost this country. Every time I listen to him, I find it hard to disagree with him. He's appealing to my more Socialistic instincts, and is proving that the tycoons that run UK media are out for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2
It was fear that won Brexit, and fear that defeated Brown and kept Miliband out. With people now viewing a "post-Brexit" world (not that we are there yet!) as being "actually ok, not as bad as they said", sooner or later people will stop voting to avoid the worst scenario, and start voting to get the most positive scenario.
Theresa May is answering pre-selected questions, and as soon as things go off script, her bottom lip quivers and her face contorts as she tries to suppress her REAL agenda.
She called this election because she believed she could get a huge mandate to push through some of her REAL policies.
Corbyn looks week in Parliament because his back benchers are like spoiled children, looking at watches and ceilings whenever he speaks. His back benchers are scared of the headlines in Murdoch's out-dated media.
Corbyn is a decent bloke, and he is far more popular on the streets than Murdoch wants us to know, and far more believable than the weak Labour MPs have given him credit for.
If the next Parliament has a similar Tory majority to what it currently enjoys, then Corbyn has won.
I'm hoping he does even better, and we get the coalition of "chaos" that May warns us of. Far better to invest in the country because austerity is not working. The child poverty figures back that up.
We already live in a world where, if you argue every kid should have the same opportunities, you're seen as a revolutionary Bolshevik. The National Debt has risen by £1 trillion in 7 years of Tory cutbacks. Household debt continues to rise as credit remains unrealistically low. If we are going into debt, surely it's better that the money is put into the future of the country, because we have very little to show for our spending in the last 7 years.
Any vote that helps the Conservatives get in is an endorsement of foodbanks, rising wealth inequality and raiding the disabled to pay for tax cuts for the most wealthy; an endorsement of further attacks on diminishing workers' rights; an endorsement of a political, not economic austerity; an endorsement of fox hunting; an endorsement of lowering wages for the lowest paid (in real terms) and increasing child poverty; an endorsement of selling arms to Saudi Arabia; an endorsement of doubling the national debt while allowing cushty tax deals with corporations and the most well off to provide cuts in social care. There are many others.
Came across this today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Quote:
'Here's what I'm really struggling to understand. All I've ever heard from people, for years, is
"bloody bankers and their bonuses"
"bloody rich and their offshore tax havens "
"bloody politicians with their lying and second homes"
“bloody corporations paying less tax than me”
"bloody Establishment, they're all in it together”
“it'll never change, there's no point in voting”
And quite rightly so, I said all the same things.
But then someone comes along that's different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I've never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person.
So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don't do the live debate, he'll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with…
“she's strong and stable”
“he's a clown”
“he's not a leader”
“look he can't even control his own party”
“he'll ruin the economy”
“how's he gonna pay for it all?!”
“AND he's a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser”
And what do we? We've waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we've read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we've came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven't, we haven't came up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they're repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying
“he's a clown”
“he’s a threat to the country”
“she's strong and stable”
“he'll take us back to the 70s”
And there's nothing else, there's no further opinion. There's no evidence apart from 1 radio 5 interview that isn't even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. There's no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he's a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher. (no offence geography teachers) because he hasn't done anything clownish from what I've seen.
And you're not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren't all in it together.
You think Richard Branson, who's quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in?
You think Rupert Murdoch, who's currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in?
You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in?
You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Top Shop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in?
You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in?
You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in?
You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in?
And do you think they don't have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn't be if my personal fortune was at risk, I'd be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately.
Because here's a man, a politician that doesn't lie, he can't lie, he could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn't. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He's fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That's one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election.
His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there's some borrowing but that's just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there.
Unlike the Tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don't even add up.
And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners.
Good, f**k them, it's long overdue. VOTE LABOUR.
There is a difference between acting morally righteous in opposition and doing the same in power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Corbyn would change his tune when in office. As Trump has done with the saudi's.
He has approximately zero chance of implementing all the policies he has offered.
Food banks are not a tory invention there was poverty under labour. Then they led us gloriously into the 2008 crash, causing more poverty than any tory policy. Food banks would have risen regardless of who was in power due to a reduction in the stigma and social media coverage.
+
I don't really mind who wins.
If it is labour wins then so be it.
I would rather labour win than the Tories get a minority government.
The moaning will be too much. :hehe:
On your head be it though. diane Abbott, john mcdonnell etc running the uk.
Jesus wept.
I said yesterday the two options are now pretty abysmal.
You're confusing Labour that were becoming a centre right party towards the end of its term of office and the current one. As for the 2008 crash, the Tories endorsed all of Labour's spending policies and backed bailing out the banks. They are the only ones also suggesting that Labour were bad for the economy. Other groups, such as the Office for Budget Responsibility, Institute of Fiscal Studies and many others have dismissed this myth.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordKenwyne
If Corbyn has no chance of implementing some of his socialist policies, why are the right wing media trying to smear and whip up a frenzy against him? Self preservation.
This is the only thing the Tories have used in their campaign. Their few policy proposals have been condemned and changed, their only method is attacking people, not policies.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordKenwyne
This ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Have you read their manifesto?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
As there are a loads of policies in there.
Guardian comment sections are not accurate I have found in regard to Tory policy!.
People are saying the Tories have put nothing forward without even reading their proposals
When America sneezes, Britain catches a cold. Nobody could have stopped the 2008 crash.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordKenwyne
There were 40k people using food banks in 2010, the last year of a Labour government, now there are over 1.4m. I accept there may be some rise but this is beyond stigma and media coverage now. This gov has cut every single public service in real terms, and is callously doing so. They've doubled the national debt since they've been in power and have continued their austerity policies.
As for deriding Abbott and McDonnell as a joke, look at Fox, Boris and Hunt.
Finally, I wonder why nobody is attacking Labour's policies? It might be because not only are they good ideas, they're massive vote winners, whereas the Tories have ridden back on their deeply unpopular policies more times than I can remember. They're a shambles, and they'll still bloody win...
People are attacking labour policies it is just as you say, that there are a lot of vote winners in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...and-value-tax/
I meant to add, yes it is a shambles the tory campaign. I think she has lost that aura of being prime ministerial.
What about the other points I made, you can't get away with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordKenwyne
Point me to some great Tory policies, apart from the ones so unpalatable that they were removed before the manifesto's ink had dried.
The only ones that say the Tories can be trusted and Labour can't, are the Tories. For some reason, this is taken as fact, with absolutely no basis.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10309178.html
This chart here is interesting, as basically, they've both been as bad as each other, with the caveat that Labour had the 2008 crisis, while the Tories decided to bail out their mates.
It is difficult to measure how much of the rise of food banks is directly linked to tory policy. You accept that part of the rise is due to coverage, easier to set up. More people willing to help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
Food has never, ever been cheaper.
As of 2014, the UK the 3rd least poverty stricken country in the entire EU.
That doesn't hide the fact that is a rising issue, but Labour votes act as if it is entirely down to Tory policy. It is a cross party issue:
https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/A...017%20data.JPG
https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/R...017%20data.JPG
I opened the manifesto and scrolled to a random page:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
Modern slavery
The UK is a global leader in fighting the evil trade in human beings – both around the
world and in our own country – for sex and labour exploitation. As home secretary,
Theresa May brought forward the Modern Slavery Act, the first of its kind in Europe,
appointed the world’s first anti-slavery commissioner and set up the Modern Slavery
Taskforce to bring together the heads of MI5, MI6 and the National Crime Agency to coordinate
our response to criminal gangs operating across the world.
We now need to go further. We need to focus on the exploitation of vulnerable men,
women and children for their labour, people who are moved around our own country
and between nations, as if they were not human at all. We will review the application of
exploitation in the Modern Slavery Act to strengthen our ability to stop criminals putting
men, women and children into criminal, dangerous and exploitative working conditions.
And the UK will use its power to push the United Nations and other international bodies
to make Modern Slavery a thing of the past.
The gender pay gap
We will take measures to close the gender pay gap. We will require companies with more
than 250 employees to publish more data on the pay gap between men and women. We
shall continue to work for parity in the number of public appointments going to women,
and we shall push for an increase in the number of women sitting on boards of companies.
We will take steps to improve take-up of shared parental leave and help companies
provide more flexible work environments that help mothers and fathers to share
parenting.
Fair markets for consumers
A Conservative government will strengthen the hand of regulators. We will strengthen the
powers of consumer enforcement bodies to order fines against companies breaking consumer
law and deliver redress for wronged parties. We will explore how to give consumers a voice in
the regulation of business. We will put the interest of vulnerable consumers first, including
considering a duty on regulators to weigh up their needs.
etc,etc,etc,etc.
Not that manifestos are filled with pledges they keep.
It isn't as many social media sound bites suggest. There is a lot of stuff in both parties manifestos that would be good.
Anything in there that guarantees the NHS will continue to be free at the point of use for everyone and it won't be privatised?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordKenwyne
No idea I havent read all of itQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Here you are
https://www.conservatives.com/manifesto
is there anything in there that says it won't be free at point of use? does the manifesto say the moon is made of cream cheese? Are you going to suggest that is the case in the absence of a statement to the contrary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
you are building a straw man when none exists.
I dont trust the tories and the Rhondda candidate lists her home address in Kensington and Chelsea ffs.
Corbyn may be a nice honest chap but he is no leader. Also don't have time for my local Labour candidate the sitting MP Chris Bryant
Plaid seems a wasted vote at a general election as does lib dem.
I have to vote so may have to spoil my paper with "none of the above"
I watched part of the Welsh leadership debate last night. For me, the most credible speakers were Leanne Wood and Carwyn.
At the end of the day though, with 60 million people to choose from, we're going to have either Corbyn or May as PM, and I wouldn't trust either of them to lead.
I like the way Leanne Wood conducts herself and puts the interests of Wales front and centre, but the issue there is that Plaid is unlikely to have any kind of influence in Parliament.
With the Tories chronically under funding the NHS, and a health secretary who has written multiple books on his desire to privatise the NHS, I think it is a perfectly legitimate question.Quote:
Originally Posted by TISS
can I ask why privatising the NHS is so bad if it remains free at point of use for all? Now i may be mistaken here, but the aim of the NHS must surely be to provide the best possible healthcare for the patient. if that means using all public, or all private, or any mix in between, then where is the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
https://twitter.com/Official_Corbyn/...77752282959872
Edit - it's fake nevermind.
But he is still doing the debate.
The Tories have run a shambolic campaign, but they will still get in easily. Perhaps not a landslide but they will increase their majority.
Labour never addressed the Tory line that it was their spending that somehow caused the global recession, and this has let the Tories off the hook for a large part of their decimation of public services.
But most importantly the whole brexiteers negotiation angle seems to be their trump card. A negative view of corbyn cultivated for years with a compliant press makes it an easy point. And this is what will cause the Tory victory above all else.
Despite the facts that May has done nothing to suggest that she will be even remotely competent in negotiations, and that corbyns favourability ratings have shot up since he's been getting some more positive airtime.
Perhaps one thing corbyn could do to undercut this would be to announce that if labour won then someone else would be doing the negotiations, if there was a person who would be fairly universally approved of. Not necessarily a politician either.
Tony Blair would probably actually do a good job, but I guess he's still to toxic.
Or a real leftfield candidate like sir Alan sugar or someone like that (but not him, the bearded git)
The private companies will try to make money, which means their services will cost more money. It'll be run similarly to the rail network, which is a complete fiasco, overly expensive and a joke. If you could chose hospitals etc and there was genuine competition it could work but you can't, and not with health. Either the taxpayer would pay more, standards would slip or we'd have to start paying. Privatising necessary public services is not a good idea as they have shareholders who demand to make money so running at a deficit etc is not an option, and they'll pull out if so. Look at Academy schools.Quote:
Originally Posted by TISS
Isn't that just the case already?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
The NHS purchasing health contracts from privatise firms that are looking to maximise profits.
They know the NHS have to buy them, so squeeze them for every penny?.
More money should be put into the NHS no doubt.
Scrap trident for a start.