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Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
With the news today that Leicester City fans have been arrested for HC at their recent home match with the Seagulls. Telegraph Sport bottom of page 5.
I am actually wondering what is allowed and what is not.
We all need a sense of humour surely.
With Racism we all know that Black is (properly used) okay but coloured and the N word are no longer acceptable EVER.
But HC is much harder to comprehend I think.
For example ...what about....
Does your boyfriend know you're here? HC?
We can see you holding hands? HC?
For me ... almost a pensioner ... the whole thing is becoming ridiculous.
Discuss. Without anything obviously homophobic.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Both of your examples are clearly homophobic chants if it helps!
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Eh, the new law is skewed in that it's missing intent.
"F*ck you you f*cking f*g" is clearly hatred based upon sexuality, hence an actionable homophobic comment.
Of those two examples in the original post, is there really hatred in there? Not defending those comments, I'd personally not make them but it seems to deal with what is a minor problem in the scheme of things they've used the equivalent of a nuclear bomb.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
It's difficult to comprehend what is and isn't acceptable in today's society.
I read this morning that a guy who asked a girl for a kiss on a train has been accused of sexual assault!!!
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
There has to be gay footballers out there. There just has to be.
Because of the constant jokes about homosexuality they clearly stay well in the closet.
Yes there is no venom or hatred in them like the banana throwing of the 70s, but it's death by a million cuts.
The fact that so far the only gay footballer to come out was 30 odd years ago and ended up killing himself clearly highlights there is a problem here
Arrestible offence is a bit far. To be honest I don't think you should be arrested for anything you say unless it's threats to harm or planning harm
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
It's difficult to comprehend what is and isn't acceptable in today's society.
I read this morning that a guy who asked a girl for a kiss on a train has been accused of sexual assault!!!
Nice one....where did he want her to kiss him?
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
I don't know how I feel about this to be honest.
Chanting at a known gay person is wrong, but chants at the Brighton fans is not aimed at anyone specifically. In a similar way, we don't really believe that jacks feast on dead rats.
People in their 50's/60's and 70's come from different times.
Some of the stuff on TV back in the 70's in particular, whilst didn't feel wrong at the time, in today's context would be beyond unacceptable.
It can be difficult for us oldies to keep up to date with what is and isn't acceptable, but we do have to evolve.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
The constant , aggressive homophobic abuse dished out to Justin fashanu by our supporters down at Torquay when he played for them was a disgrace and made me ashamed , I always thought our fans were better than that but like feck we were .........thinking back does anyone remember the bananas thrown at the black man city goalkeeper Alex Jenkins ? ........from the canton stand .........it always makes me cringe when Cardiff fans deny there has ever been a racist element among our support ......wankers
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
I don't know how I feel about this to be honest.
Chanting at a known gay person is wrong, but chants at the Brighton fans is not aimed at anyone specifically. In a similar way, we don't really believe that jacks feast on dead rats.
People in their 50's/60's and 70's come from different times.
Some of the stuff on TV back in the 70's in particular, whilst didn't feel wrong at the time, in today's context would be beyond unacceptable.
It can be difficult for us oldies to keep up to date with what is and isn't acceptable, but we do have to evolve.
You will still hear racist abuse at Cardiff city games , we still have our fair share of arseholes , amazing really considering the Cosmopolitan nature of Cardiff as a city but it's there
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The constant , aggressive homophobic abuse dished out to Justin fashanu by our supporters down at Torquay when he played for them was a disgrace and made me ashamed , I always thought our fans were better than that but like feck we were .........thinking back does anyone remember the bananas thrown at the black man city goalkeeper Alex Jenkins ? ........from the canton stand .........it always makes me cringe when Cardiff fans deny there has ever been a racist element among our support ......wankers
Just block them all, that'll teach 'em! :hehe:
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
I don't know how I feel about this to be honest.
Chanting at a known gay person is wrong, but chants at the Brighton fans is not aimed at anyone specifically. In a similar way, we don't really believe that jacks feast on dead rats.
People in their 50's/60's and 70's come from different times.
Some of the stuff on TV back in the 70's in particular, whilst didn't feel wrong at the time, in today's context would be beyond unacceptable.
It can be difficult for us oldies to keep up to date with what is and isn't acceptable, but we do have to evolve.
We don't shag sheep either. Well I don't.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
I don't know how I feel about this to be honest.
Chanting at a known gay person is wrong, but chants at the Brighton fans is not aimed at anyone specifically. In a similar way, we don't really believe that jacks feast on dead rats.
Couldn't disagree more, under this criteria that "Your just a town full of P*ki's" chant at Bradford fans would be deemed appropriate
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve R
Just block them all, that'll teach 'em! :hehe:
Where to on broad Street is hafod house ?
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
You will still hear racist abuse at Cardiff city games , we still have our fair share of arseholes , amazing really considering the Cosmopolitan nature of Cardiff as a city but it's there
Genuinely I don't hear it.
But this could be a combination of poor hearing and sitting in the grandstand.
Not doubting you though and agree that I'd always felt Cardiff was one of the most racially integrated City's in the country.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitman
Couldn't disagree more, under this criteria that "Your just a town full of P*ki's" chant at Bradford fans would be deemed appropriate
Fair point
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitman
Couldn't disagree more, under this criteria that "Your just a town full of P*ki's" chant at Bradford fans would be deemed appropriate
We sang that at both Bradford and Oldham fans , ****ing shameful , no wonder we have hardly any Asian fans despite a large Asian population on the doorstep of Cardiff city stadium
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Where to on broad Street is hafod house ?
The Care Home? It's where the Theatre Royal used to be.
Attachment 1742
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
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Originally Posted by
Steve R
Cheers , I got a meeting there next week
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tomm
That could answer a few questions raised in the 'why do we need a group for gay fans' thread.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitman
There has to be gay footballers out there. There just has to be.
Because of the constant jokes about homosexuality they clearly stay well in the closet.
Yes there is no venom or hatred in them like the banana throwing of the 70s, but it's death by a million cuts.
The fact that so far the only gay footballer to come out was 30 odd years ago and ended up killing himself clearly highlights there is a problem here
Arrestible offence is a bit far. To be honest I don't think you should be arrested for anything you say unless it's threats to harm or planning harm
With regards to the whole fashanu thing, there seems to be a bit of history being rewritten these days.
I'm pretty sure his suicide followed him being arrested for the sexual assault of a 17 year old in USA. He fled back to England where he took his own life. His suicide note stated that he figured he wouldn't get a fair trial as he was gay.
I'm not saying he didn't suffer chants and abuse from the terraces but that wasn't the reason he killed himself.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
How hard is it not to chant homophobic stuff? I don't think anyone would be arrested for the "we can see you holding hands" and "does your boyfriend know you're here" chants but even if they weren't offensive they stopped being funny about 10 years ago. Football fans really know how to beat a dead horse.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr Lecter
With regards to the whole fashanu thing, there seems to be a bit of history being rewritten these days.
I'm pretty sure his suicide followed him being arrested for the sexual assault of a 17 year old in USA. He fled back to England where he took his own life. His suicide note stated that he figured he wouldn't get a fair trial as he was gay.
I'm not saying he didn't suffer chants and abuse from the terraces but that wasn't the reason he killed himself.
His own manager (Brian Clough) gave him dogs abuse for it too, I'm sure the arrested contributed but people generally don't kill themselves for one reason.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
That could answer a few questions raised in the 'why do we need a group for gay fans' thread.
I know I'll get stick for this but I think as the majority of the board are straight, white men we struggle to understand how discrimination affects people. It's easy for us to say throwing a banana, or chanting "we can see you holding hands" is just harmless "banter" but if we were in their position we'd probably feel different.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
How hard is it not to chant homophobic stuff? I don't think anyone would be arrested for the "we can see you holding hands" and "does your boyfriend know you're here" chants but even if they weren't offensive they stopped being funny about 10 years ago. Football fans really know how to beat a dead horse.
Well positioned , its like Geoff Boycott, of the Jurassic age , a lot of clubs can and do come up with marvelous songs of humor,without upsetting people , IE " two not the sheep shaggers" is a great retort .
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitman
There has to be gay footballers out there. There just has to be.
Because of the constant jokes about homosexuality they clearly stay well in the closet.
Yes there is no venom or hatred in them like the banana throwing of the 70s, but it's death by a million cuts.
The fact that so far the only gay footballer to come out was 30 odd years ago and ended up killing himself clearly highlights there is a problem here
Arrestible offence is a bit far. To be honest I don't think you should be arrested for anything you say unless it's threats to harm or planning harm
Maybe gay players stay in the "closet" because they realise it's an utter f*cking irrelevance? Why should any footballer have to publicly reveal their sexuality?
Citing Fashanu - this was a guy who can hardly be held up as a semblance of a role model. Making up a story about an MP for money, killing himself when facing trial in Murica for having had sex with a minor.. wasn't a nice person.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
His own manager (Brian Clough) gave him dogs abuse for it too, I'm sure the arrested contributed but people generally don't kill themselves for one reason.
Of course not. It's usually a culmination of things going badly wrong to the point where you feel there's no coming back.
I'm just saying that there seems to be a narrative that he killed himself because of abuse from the terraces.
Lot more complex than fans giving him stick - especially when he hadn't been playing for years at the time of his death.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
Maybe gay players stay in the "closet" because they realise it's an utter f*cking irrelevance? Why should any footballer have to publicly reveal their sexuality?
Citing Fashanu - this was a guy who can hardly be held up as a semblance of a role model. Making up a story about an MP for money, killing himself when facing trial in Murica for having had sex with a minor.. wasn't a nice person.
Who'd have thought a gay man who had a difficult upbringing and then was thrust into the limelight would have a few mental issues and make bad decisions.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
Maybe gay players stay in the "closet" because they realise it's an utter f*cking irrelevance? Why should any footballer have to publicly reveal their sexuality?
Citing Fashanu - this was a guy who can hardly be held up as a semblance of a role model. Making up a story about an MP for money, killing himself when facing trial in Murica for having had sex with a minor.. wasn't a nice person.
Nearly as nice as his brother John.
Claimed their mother died from the stress of having a gay son.
Gave an interview a week after Justin came out saying he was an outcast.
Still claims to this day that Justin wasn't gay, just an attention seeker.
With support like that it's no wonder the bloke felt like a lost cause.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr Lecter
Nearly as nice as his brother John.
Claimed their mother died from the stress of having a gay son.
Gave an interview a week after Justin came out saying he was an outcast.
Still claims to this day that Justin wasn't gay, just an attention seeker.
With support like that it's no wonder the bloke felt like a lost cause.
https://www.theguardian.com/football...-my-arch-enemy
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
It's difficult to comprehend what is and isn't acceptable in today's society.
I read this morning that a guy who asked a girl for a kiss on a train has been accused of sexual assault!!!
I assume this was the story you read? http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...cid=spartandhp
I'm guessing that tickling a 17 year old girl after she refused to kiss him may have played a role in the accusation too.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Swbluebird
Reading that, it doesn't seem quite so difficult to work out what is and isn't acceptable in today's society.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The constant , aggressive homophobic abuse dished out to Justin fashanu by our supporters down at Torquay when he played for them was a disgrace and made me ashamed , I always thought our fans were better than that but like feck we were .........thinking back does anyone remember the bananas thrown at the black man city goalkeeper Alex Jenkins ? ........from the canton stand .........it always makes me cringe when Cardiff fans deny there has ever been a racist element among our support ......wankers
Yeah I remember that and was at that game. I was totally ashamed.
I've not heard many, if any, racist chants at city for the last 15 years or more.
But there is still a long way to go.
I found the shipman chant particularly awful.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AlwaysAway2
With the news today that Leicester City fans have been arrested for HC at their recent home match with the Seagulls. Telegraph Sport bottom of page 5.
I am actually wondering what is allowed and what is not.
We all need a sense of humour surely.
With Racism we all know that Black is (properly used) okay but coloured and the N word are no longer acceptable EVER.
But HC is much harder to comprehend I think.
For example ...what about....
Does your boyfriend know you're here? HC?
We can see you holding hands? HC?
For me ... almost a pensioner ... the whole thing is becoming ridiculous.
Discuss. Without anything obviously homophobic.
I'm with you on this one.
There are obviously chants which should be outlawed, but most of it is harmless banter.
Do we run crying to the stewards when we're called sheepshaggers?
The PC brigade are going too far, and have way too much influence on life.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
It's alright lads the 2 pensioners don't think homophobia and racism are an issue, move on it's sorted.
Throwing banans was "harmless banter" less than 30 years ago.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
It's alright lads the 2 pensioners don't think homophobia and racism are an issue, move on it's sorted.
Throwing banans was "harmless banter" less than 30 years ago.
I never said or implied that!
I said there were "obviously chants which should be outlawed" but most of it is banter.
I certainly wouldn't chuck bananas or anything else at anyone.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
It's alright lads the 2 pensioners don't think homophobia and racism are an issue, move on it's sorted.
Throwing banans was "harmless banter" less than 30 years ago.
I never said or implied that!
I said there were "obviously chants which should be outlawed" but most of it is banter.
For the record, my younger sister is in a gay marriage, and my niece has just 'come out'.
I certainly wouldn't chuck bananas or anything else at anyone.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobh
I'm with you on this one.
There are obviously chants which should be outlawed, but most of it is harmless banter.
Do we run crying to the stewards when we're called sheepshaggers?
The PC brigade are going too far, and have way too much influence on life.
The sheepshaggers is not quite the same as no one actually shags sheep.
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Re: Homophobic chanting (HC) the new arrestable offence at football.
Whenever i used to hear the term PC brigade i used to chuckle at the analogy, now i worry more and more that people think that it actually exists.
Reading the reports last nights we are hearing from Brighton fans that this was the worst level of homophobic abuse they have experienced in years (they also mentioned Leeds have been pretty bad in this respect). We are also hearing from some Leicester fans that the language and actions used went far beyond the odd chant. Despite this only one person has been charged under the footballing offences act. We are clearly not under the influence of a brigade arresting thousands because of a song going around a stadium.
There is also another example of this on this thread where a young girl was kissed and groped on a train, and people are equating that to a man being arrested for asking for a kiss, reading the actual article i wouldnt want my daughter being treated like that.
Surely stopping 17 year old girls getting groped and unwanted attention on a train journey, and stopping adults hurtling swear words and vitriol and any gay man in their vicinity as if playing Brighton is a battle against the entire homosexual community, isnt PC gone mad, its Political Correctness gone right.