-
Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
I'm too young and haven't been a Cardiff fan long enough to have much insight on this subject. But I've always felt that Cardiff's past hooligan image held the club back a lot. This would always be the subject brought up about say ten years ago if I told someone which club I supported. Did hooliganism prevent the club from growing to its potential? Did it deter fans from coming to games? Or did it have little impact?
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
People probably talked more about Cardiffs hooligans because the football team was shit and not worth talking about.
Premier league off the pitch. Dungeon on it for many years in the 90s.
Also for large parts of the 90s if you took away the hooligans you'd take away most of city's support. Especially away.:hehe:
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Well my old man took me to my first game in 1970, a couple of seasons later stopped taking me because of it and it was a few years before I was old enough to go with my mates in the 80's.
Back then though all clubs had a hooligan element it was just that our lads seemed to be better at it than most!
As the flouncer says though, the football was rubbish and there was no money in the club. I missed most of the 90's as I had a young family, money was tight and we were truly dreadful on the pitch.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
My old man took me to my first game in 1968, Birmingham at home. We were in awe of the rampaging skinheads battling it out in the corner of the Grange end and Bob bank. For the following home game the old man bought me a pair of doc Marten boots.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
If it wasn't for the hoolies, I don't know what would have kept us going during the mid-80s. We were getting 2500 for home games and freqently took at least half of that away.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
I know of a few former fans, now in their 50s, who went regularly for the fighting (so they tell me). As they got older, and as that element of our support dwindled, they stopped bothering.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
I can go back a fair way , and on a personal note it started with inter estate, schools and religion gang battles outside of football and within .
Football then became the fashionable platform and congregation ,for that emotion to poured out on a bigger stage , distinctly remember City fans fighting between themselves ie Barry v Llanrumney v Valley boys and then v the coppers and the away fans ,it seemed hostile everywhere .
Hooliganism was everywhere at every club almost, its was like fashion to talk about the latest fight and battle ,the more press you was the more it was bettered .
Therefore the answer to you question I don' think it held us back at all as ther bigger firms who went onto fame and glory as clubs , ie Manchester Utd and the Salford Boys and West Ham and its Inter City Firm ('ICF') .
The Soul Crew book over enlarged City's reputation way beyond a lot of clubs as above and Chelsea's Shed and Headhunters , Villa's Hard Crew to name a few
This might help ,the 1970's onwards was the key when media enjoyed its headlines , although it stretches way ,way back to 1880s, when individuals referred to as roughs caused trouble at football matches.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hooligan_firms
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Did The Wurzels really have a firm called 'Family Stand Ointment'?
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
No
lack of investment and interest from locals who preferred rugby and/or just couldnt be arsed with the city
Other clubs had tidy " firms " and they did ok,
While we did not attract families, neither is most of the other clubs, it was truly a national issue, any club had a following who would like to indulge, we just had a slightly larger % who did and lets be honest, the football was dire at times, the laugh with mates on the terraces was one of the few entertaining things
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Baloo
Did The Wurzels really have a firm called 'Family Stand Ointment'?
Yep after the" City Service Firm" had ruffed you up ,along came the" ointment firm "to give you a right rogering
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Yep after the" City Service Firm" had ruffed you up ,along came the" ointment firm "to give you a right rogering
Family Stand Ointment - really? Instead of stanley knives did they carry tubs of sudocrem?
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blue in the Face
I'm too young and haven't been a Cardiff fan long enough to have much insight on this subject. But I've always felt that Cardiff's past hooligan image held the club back a lot. This would always be the subject brought up about say ten years ago if I told someone which club I supported. Did hooliganism prevent the club from growing to its potential? Did it deter fans from coming to games? Or did it have little impact?
It still does....despite being a very safe day out many probably still associate fans with being a bit lively shall we say.....
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blue in the Face
I'm too young and haven't been a Cardiff fan long enough to have much insight on this subject. But I've always felt that Cardiff's past hooligan image held the club back a lot. This would always be the subject brought up about say ten years ago if I told someone which club I supported. Did hooliganism prevent the club from growing to its potential? Did it deter fans from coming to games? Or did it have little impact?
Yes, people talk about a lost generation of supporters we have who were growing up in the 80s and 90s and it's largely put down to crap football on the pitch., However, I know of a few who were stopped from going to games during that time by their parents because they were concerned that it wasn't safe at City games. I don't agree with that opinion because, certainly in "run of the mill" games at Ninian Park during that time, there was no violence worth talking about, but the important thing was that youngsters who were potentially long term supporters of the club were being stopped from attending because of the fear of hooliganism and I think it's reasonable to assume that you could multiply the "few" I'm aware of many times over to get a total figure.
Also, on different point, I always think that the team that beat Leeds in 2002 were ever given the credit they were due because they had their thunder stolen so to speak by what happened off the pitch that day - looking back now, that game represents a turning point as far as hooliganism at Cardiff City goes.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Yes, people talk about a lost generation of supporters we have who were growing up in the 80s and 90s and it's largely put down to crap football on the pitch., However, I know of a few who were stopped from going to games during that time by their parents because they were concerned that it wasn't safe at City games. I don't agree with that opinion because, certainly in "run of the mill" games at Ninian Park during that time, there was no violence worth talking about, but the important thing was that youngsters who were potentially long term supporters of the club were being stopped from attending because of the fear of hooliganism and I think it's reasonable to assume that you could multiply the "few" I'm aware of many times over to get a total figure.
Also, on different point, I always think that the team that beat Leeds in 2002 were ever given the credit they were due because they had their thunder stolen so to speak by what happened off the pitch that day - looking back now, that game represents a turning point as far as hooliganism at Cardiff City goes.
You're spot on about 2002. We left quite soon after the final whistle so I couldn't wait to read the papers and listen to our plaudits on Talksport etc.
However, I was incensed to see the papers with their 'War Zone' etc headlines and a morning phone in which basically turned into a slagging the Welsh off show from all and sundry. I was on a long drive so interestingly heard it all, the morning show then morphed into Mike Dickens changing his own topic into a slagging off the Welsh.
I soon realised that us beating the then English darlings was quickly hijacked into an excuse for some severe anti-Welsh racism.
Some of the calls included the usual kicking us out of the 'Football' league, right down to the leftfield, they wouldn't want to fight alongside the Welsh in the army :hehe:
It was an interesting insight into the English attitude to anything not English, that bubbles under the surface and certainly said more about them than it did us.
It was fascinating listening, and this resurfaced slightly when we made them look silly at Euro 16, as they desperately grasped at the English born players who love representing Wales.
Again, the same sentiments happened during the recent Ben Woodburn appearances.
Slightly off topic, but for a supposedly powerful, important nation, they're incredibly insecure :hehe: :wales:
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Baloo
Family Stand Ointment - really? Instead of stanley knives did they carry tubs of sudocrem?
No they had Germolean (sp)
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
3 things held the City back more than the Hoolies
1) Rugby and the Welsh media love in with it.
2) Silly Tw@ts from South Wales "Supporting" Manu and Liverpool, who incidentally Hate the English on a 6 nations day.
3)City were pretty much shite for 3 decades with the odd blip of being ok.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
point 3 is the main reason
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
People probably talked more about Cardiffs hooligans because the football team was shit and not worth talking about.
Premier league off the pitch. Dungeon on it for many years in the 90s.
Also for large parts of the 90s if you took away the hooligans you'd take away most of city's support. Especially away.:hehe:
the early 90s for me truly halcyon days following city
we were the big fish in a small pond
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Also, on different point, I always think that the team that beat Leeds in 2002 were ever given the credit they were due because they had their thunder stolen so to speak by what happened off the pitch that day - looking back now, that game represents a turning point as far as hooliganism at Cardiff City goes.
Did Leeds players not say that it was a hellish atmosphere and the crowd was truly the 12th man that day
from a personal point of view, you could see the leeds players didnt fancy it right from the word go
a fine line between that pure passion and very intimidating crowd and it spilling over to the scenes we saw, imho they come hand in hand
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS
the early 90s for me truly halcyon days following city
we were the big fish in a small pond
:thumbup: and me
I have often said, everything fell into place, my age, the right mates ( and other lads ) around me and the football
good days indeed :thumbup: they will never be repeated
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
I still have people today talk to me about the club is a hooligan club, and people wouldn't attend games because of that. Friends of mine are often shocked that when i say of over 20 years of football i have been caught up in more trouble just having a night out in Cardiff.
Whilst some might say it was our hooligan element that kept us going, and then attracted like minded individuals to the club, that number is hugely offset by the number that stayed away. You get into going to live football from going the first time and enjoying that experience. If you are hearing constant rumors about violence then you will never experience your first hit.
I would say the club is still held back a little by its reputation. However its very much a different beast today. Its very welcoming towards families, I feel as that reputation increases so will attendances.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
insider
3 things held the City back more than the Hoolies
1) Rugby and the Welsh media love in with it.
2) Silly Tw@ts from South Wales "Supporting" Manu and Liverpool, who incidentally Hate the English on a 6 nations day.
3)City were pretty much shite for 3 decades with the odd blip of being ok.
I'd go with this. Although I did miss most of the 80's & 90's because I was kicking a bladder around a field myself.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
:thumbup: and me
I have often said, everything fell into place, my age, the right mates ( and other lads ) around me and the football
good days indeed :thumbup: they will never be repeated
The Very Best.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Llanedeyrnblue
No they had Germolean (sp)
to ease the rogering
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
James fox
The Very Best.
Happy Days
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Post WW2 Britain saw Teddy boys, then mods and rockers followed by aggro on football terraces used as an outlet for low IQ working class males to indulge in recreational violence. South Wales saw a slight variation in that many of the same demographic followed rugby. They didn't scrap with opponents but their wives and girlfriends behind close doors prior to using them as human trampolines.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
:thumbup: and me
I have often said, everything fell into place, my age, the right mates ( and other lads ) around me and the football
good days indeed :thumbup: they will never be repeated
Same here Matt :thumbup:
add to that our euro cup winner cup entries (cor remember that) lol
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Hooliganism absolutely held Cardiff city back.
Yes there were times when a big proportion of the crowd were involved in that kinda thing, but the fact that the crowd was 3000 instead of 13000 for a city of this size without too many other distractions speaks volumes.
Yes the football was crap, but then even more than now money generated by attendances had a big effect on the quality of player you could bring in. If we had bigger crowds the football would have been better.
For those involved it was undoubtedly an incredibly intense, exciting, romantic even time, but for every guy of a certain age who thrived in that environment there were others who would have hated it.
How many kids weren't allowed to go to the football by their parents because of the reputation? How many didn't enjoy the aggressive tension in the atmosphere?
I see no coincidence that the "lost generation" of Cardiff fabs, lost to the likes of Liverpool coincides directly with the worst of the hooliganism days.
Yes every region without a "big" team suffers the same thing but it has always seemed like south Wales, from that era suffered it more than most.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't begin to judge anyone for enjoying it, I can really see the attraction, but looking back after the dust has settled I think it definitely did hold the club back.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
The club may as well give up with all the attempts to make away fans feel at home. I know away fans in the premier league year said they did everything to make it all nicey nicey
Multiple 'family clubs of the year'.....if I ask any of my mates who support the big english teams to go to a game, they'll say they don't want to get stabbed. What is the actual point? opinion of cardiff is set in stone
We've got to be one of the least violent sets of fans now in the entire pyramid? (i don't go to away games)
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
Post WW2 Britain saw Teddy boys, then mods and rockers followed by aggro on football terraces used as an outlet for low IQ working class males to indulge in recreational violence. South Wales saw a slight variation in that many of the same demographic followed rugby. They didn't scrap with opponents but their wives and girlfriends behind close doors prior to using them as human trampolines.
You seem obsessed with the notion of rugby fans beating their wives, there is no more prevalence in this than with football fans, or indeed any event that usually involves lots of people getting drunk.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Hooliganism absolutely held Cardiff city back.
Yes there were times when a big proportion of the crowd were involved in that kinda thing, but the fact that the crowd was 3000 instead of 13000 for a city of this size without too many other distractions speaks volumes.
Yes the football was crap, but then even more than now money generated by attendances had a big effect on the quality of player you could bring in. If we had bigger crowds the football would have been better.
For those involved it was undoubtedly an incredibly intense, exciting, romantic even time, but for every guy of a certain age who thrived in that environment there were others who would have hated it.
How many kids weren't allowed to go to the football by their parents because of the reputation? How many didn't enjoy the aggressive tension in the atmosphere?
I see no coincidence that the "lost generation" of Cardiff fabs, lost to the likes of Liverpool coincides directly with the worst of the hooliganism days.
Yes every region without a "big" team suffers the same thing but it has always seemed like south Wales, from that era suffered it more than most.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't begin to judge anyone for enjoying it, I can really see the attraction, but looking back after the dust has settled I think it definitely did hold the club back.
Good post, the only slight disagreement I have with you is that I never saw the attraction - that's not quite true actually, I saw the attraction between the ages of about ten and twelve.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
Did Leeds players not say that it was a hellish atmosphere and the crowd was truly the 12th man that day
from a personal point of view, you could see the leeds players didnt fancy it right from the word go
a fine line between that pure passion and very intimidating crowd and it spilling over to the scenes we saw, imho they come hand in hand
My point was that we were a Third Division side in a poor run of form at the time who took on the team who were top of the Premier League (a side who did not indulge in any "squad rotation" at all that day) and we beat them - the players have never got the credit they deserved for that and, although the media coverage during and after the game was over the top, it cannot be denied that there was a lot happening which went above and beyond the "hellish atmosphere" you talk about.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
You seem obsessed with the notion of rugby fans beating their wives, there is no more prevalence in this than with football fans, or indeed any event that usually involves lots of people getting drunk.
Oh no?
Police highlight rise in domestic abuse at Six Nations time - http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...-abuse-1932894
Storm over Welsh rugby wife-beating:An official report claims that wife beating increases on international rugby days - http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...eating-2474786
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Good post, the only slight disagreement I have with you is that I never saw the attraction - that's not quite true actually, I saw the attraction between the ages of about ten and twelve.
Completely agree bob it would never be my sort of thing. Different strokes I suppose but I could never understand the attraction of it.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
I imagine the figures rise on boxing day, black friday, halloween etc for the same reason.
There is no debate on which set of fans are more civil, football & rugby. No debate whatsoever
Some of the red faced, walking heart attacks I've seen abusing the ref with kids around during cardiff games are embarrassing.
People that have a pop at rugby are lucky rival games dont occur often in football. Wales v england a few years ago, fighting all day in the centre
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Good post, the only slight disagreement I have with you is that I never saw the attraction - that's not quite true actually, I saw the attraction between the ages of about ten and twelve.
I started watching the club in 1992, i was 12. At that time the air of trouble and mischief was an attraction. It felt quite rebellious at the time, hardly any of my friends supported Cardiff City, and it seemed that fewer of their parents wanted them to be there. If i had been caught up in any trouble at that time there would have been no chance that i would have been able to deal with it. However the chance and the rumors about it did give a sense of excitement.
It seemed to me at that age the only chance of young people going to watch Cardiff City was to have an older relative that already went, and knew that it wasn't wall to wall fighting, and that trouble was rare. There was a fear from parents that they couldn't just take their child who was interested in football down to watch Cardiff City for the first time, because they would more than likely get caught up in violence.
This obviously holds a football club back in regards of finances and that is what drives a club forward.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordKenwyne
I imagine the figures rise on boxing day, black friday, halloween etc for the same reason.
There is no debate on which set of fans are more civil, football & rugby. No debate whatsoever
Some of the red faced, walking heart attacks I've seen abusing the ref with kids around during cardiff games are embarrassing.
There is a debate, people are people. When people spend a day out drinking and watching sport, civil behavior sometimes goes out of the window.
I have supported Cardiff City home and away over a period of 20 year, and i have seen some bad behavior on these trips. I have also been on Wales six nations trips. In my opinion some of the worst behavior that I have seen has occurred on a couple of occasions in Ireland. Again i'm talking about being caught up in extreme violence.
You can meet some nice people, and some right idiots in whatever sport you are watching.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
qccfc
There is a debate, people are people. When people spend a day out drinking and watching sport, civil behavior sometimes goes out of the window.
I have supported Cardiff City home and away over a period of 20 year, and i have seen some bad behavior on these trips. I have also been on Wales six nations trips. In my opinion some of the worst behavior that I have seen has occurred on a couple of occasions in Ireland. Again i'm talking about being caught up in extreme violence.
You can meet some nice people, and some right idiots in whatever sport you are watching.
Ye I suppose..
This is the difference. In the centre at the rugby you will find trouble, as people come down purely to drink, in the ground nothing whatsoever. The game is just an excuse for the people in the pubs.
At the football it is usually the opposite. Not that there has been violence at wales football games in a while. Because there aren't many games with a rivalry that occur often. We'll see what happens with ROI, with them drinking like their lives depend on it.
What there isn't a debate on, is which side has the most glory hunters. Both sides are full to the brim with them!.
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
A few minutes spent on Google you will be able to find police also highlighting spikes in domestic violence around old firm fixtures in Glasgow, and around Christmas , those thuggish Christians eh?
-
Re: Did hooliganism hold CCFC back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
A few minutes spent on Google you will be able to find police also highlighting spikes in domestic violence around old firm fixtures in Glasgow, and around Christmas , those thuggish Christians eh?
As you well know, the issue you chose to dispute concerned Welsh eggers. Now you make a poor attempt to procrastinate. Link me any report or info that suggests there's a spike in domestic violence by Welsh football fans following games or competitions.