£80,000. More than most of us could possibly accumulate in all our working lives ...

..handed to an illegal immigrant with 30 criminal convictions , many with violence, who was kept in jail while the UK tried to deport him.

Tory, Labour, LibDem, doesn't matter which party is in government, they're all a complete and utter waste of space...

Full story? Link?

The judge concluded: ‘Some reading this judgment might well question why a foreign citizen who has so thoroughly abused the hospitality of this country by the commission of serious criminal offences is entitled to any compensation.

‘But there are few principles more important in a civilised society than that no one should be deprived of their liberty without lawful authority.

‘It is essential, where a person is unlawfully imprisoned by the state, that an independent judiciary should hold the executive to account.

‘Justice should be done to all people. He is not the most wicked of men, but his presence in the UK is not conducive to public good.

‘Nevertheless, in a civilised society, he is entitled to justice.’

http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/10/violen...soned-7070087/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...on-payout.html

Do you think we are too left / liberal leaning on these matters ? if so how do we square these political views.

I'm not in the camp where we just allow such freedoms , costs and liberties , as it is taken advantage of .

One would consider the right wing political world agreeing with me , whereas the Liberal and current Left socialist model would not.

I've always voted with a socialist viewpoint , perhaps I'm not now ???, however I'm no right winger .

I want social justices and rights , but not at no cost or accountability , this goes for justice , benefits , immigration , government spending ,

Of course we need our policies o be fair but not at no cost or rule ,however unpopular that is as a policy left or right .

I'm drifting away on an unknown political cloud .:sherlock:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

Do you think we are too left / liberal leaning on these matters ? if so how do we square these political views.

I'm not in the camp where we just allow such freedoms , costs and liberties , as it is taken advantage of .

One would consider the right wing political world agreeing with me , whereas the Liberal and current Left socialist model would not.

I've always voted with a socialist viewpoint , perhaps I'm not now ???, however I'm no right winger .

I want social justices and rights , but not at no cost or accountability , this goes for justice , benefits , immigration , government spending ,

Of course we need our policies o be fair but not at no cost or rule ,however unpopular that is as a policy left or right .

I'm drifting away on an unknown political cloud .:sherlock:

---

Maybe you have discovered Marxism (as a concept of course) Mr B

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lardy

The judge concluded: ‘Some reading this judgment might well question why a foreign citizen who has so thoroughly abused the hospitality of this country by the commission of serious criminal offences is entitled to any compensation.

‘But there are few principles more important in a civilised society than that no one should be deprived of their liberty without lawful authority.

‘It is essential, where a person is unlawfully imprisoned by the state, that an independent judiciary should hold the executive to account.

‘Justice should be done to all people. He is not the most wicked of men, but his presence in the UK is not conducive to public good.

‘Nevertheless, in a civilised society, he is entitled to justice.’

http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/10/violen...soned-7070087/

---

By the looks of that article (I know someone also posted a Daily Mail article but that's hardly likely to be accurate), there are home office failings in deporting him. If he was ordered to leave in 2000, how come it took until 2008 for the Home Secretary to issue a deportation order? There must be a story there. Saying that, this is the home office we're talking about. It has bungled lots of things up over many decades and has been generally ineffective regardless of who has been in power (yet some blame the EU.....).

Ultimately, the law is the law and whether or not it seems like a fair or reasonable judgement, it appears that the correct justice according to the laws of the UK has been served - we've had laws on unlawful imprisonment for centuries. If we're not happy with things like this, then laws need to be changed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

Do you think we are too left / liberal leaning on these matters ? if so how do we square these political views.

I'm not in the camp where we just allow such freedoms , costs and liberties , as it is taken advantage of .

One would consider the right wing political world agreeing with me , whereas the Liberal and current Left socialist model would not.

I've always voted with a socialist viewpoint , perhaps I'm not now ???, however I'm no right winger .

I want social justices and rights , but not at no cost or accountability , this goes for justice , benefits , immigration , government spending ,

Of course we need our policies o be fair but not at no cost or rule ,however unpopular that is as a policy left or right .

I'm drifting away on an unknown political cloud .:sherlock:

---

Well I am a socialist and I think it's a disgrace

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well I am a socialist and I think it's a disgrace

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Phew, thanks comrade

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Phew, thanks comrade

---

No problem

All is well

Nothing to see here

Move along

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Eric - why dont you do some investigative digging and find the real story and let us know.

Here's your starter for 10

How much was he paid ?
Why was he paid ?
What law did the Govt breach in order for this compensation to be paid ?

---

You seem keen on finding out. Over to you. I was basing my entire response on one article. I'm really not overly bothered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

Do you think we are too left / liberal leaning on these matters ? if so how do we square these political views.

I'm not in the camp where we just allow such freedoms , costs and liberties , as it is taken advantage of .

One would consider the right wing political world agreeing with me , whereas the Liberal and current Left socialist model would not.

I've always voted with a socialist viewpoint , perhaps I'm not now ???, however I'm no right winger .

I want social justices and rights , but not at no cost or accountability , this goes for justice , benefits , immigration , government spending ,

Of course we need our policies o be fair but not at no cost or rule ,however unpopular that is as a policy left or right .

I'm drifting away on an unknown political cloud .:sherlock:

---

That's the thing with human rights, they either apply to everyone or no one. Theres no middle ground. If you think it's ok for someone to be locked up unlawfully, even if he's a c**t who deserves it as this guy clearly does, then you accept that one day one of your loved ones can be locked up unlawfully too.

As said above, the real question is why he was up for deportation in 2000 and years later it still hadn't happened. This guy's not from the EU, but it resonates with something that came up a few times during the Leave referendum discussions. The UK hasn't got the power to deport criminals back to the EU - well, as I said a few times on here, the UK does have the power but the UK doesn't seem to use it. That's not the EU's fault, it's the UK's fault. So why is the UK so crap at following through? To me, it doesn't seem to be a policy problem but applying the policy.

I remember that chap with the hook, that May finally got rid of courts kept kicking her back because the worries he might poorly treated him if extradited ,ah bless ,allegedly claimed thousands in benefits for both him and his family in very expansive part of London ,not sure of the constituency he was residing in ,probably north London somewhere ,whilst preaching he hated us and the system that supported him ,gotta love em .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lardy

That's the thing with human rights, they either apply to everyone or no one. Theres no middle ground. If you think it's ok for someone to be locked up unlawfully, even if he's a c**t who deserves it as this guy clearly does, then you accept that one day one of your loved ones can be locked up unlawfully too.

As said above, the real question is why he was up for deportation in 2000 and years later it still hadn't happened. This guy's not from the EU, but it resonates with something that came up a few times during the Leave referendum discussions. The UK hasn't got the power to deport criminals back to the EU - well, as I said a few times on here, the UK does have the power but the UK doesn't seem to use it. That's not the EU's fault, it's the UK's fault. So why is the UK so crap at following through? To me, it doesn't seem to be a policy problem but applying the policy.

---

Absolutely right.

To continue with this theme, I wonder how many people are aware that the UK is allowed to deport EU citizens if they are out of work for 3 months or more. Austria is a prime example of a country that does this regularly. We don't, yet we have the power to do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

You seem keen on finding out. Over to you. I was basing my entire response on one article. I'm really not overly bothered.

---

Bit harsh, felt that was a genuine respectful question. You are quite good at collating facts .

And I wanted the answer without doing anything myself as well...:-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

Bit harsh, felt that was a genuine respectful question. You are quite good at collating facts .

And I wanted the answer without doing anything myself as well...:-)

---

The obvious response to the last question is that if there hadn't been a breach of law, then this case wouldn't have existed. I'm not doubting for a moment that it's probably something obscure, discovered by a keen solicitor. The law is still the law - being outraged or annoyed at this makes no difference unless people want to see the law changed.

The other questions were immaterial. I'm not particularly happy with this judgement and some amendment to law is undoubtedly needed. My only real interest is that peoples' complaints about this are directed fairly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

The obvious response to the last question is that if there hadn't been a breach of law, then this case wouldn't have existed. I'm not doubting for a moment that it's probably something obscure, discovered by a keen solicitor. The law is still the law - being outraged or annoyed at this makes no difference unless people want to see the law changed.

The other questions were immaterial. I'm not particularly happy with this judgement and some amendment to law is undoubtedly needed. My only real interest is that peoples' complaints about this are directed fairly.

---

Is there an article we can read on it? To get the FACTS preferably not the Daily Mail.

I agree with the earlier comment , justice is for everyone even the unsavoury.

“The UK was ordered not to deport him from the country by the European court of human rights”. Says it all. Thank fu*k for Brexit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

“The UK was ordered not to deport him from the country by the European court of human rights”. Says it all. Thank fu*k for Brexit.

---

Yet the ECHR would only have been ensuring UK courts upheld UK law. Are you suggesting that UK courts should show disregard for UK law?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Yet the ECHR would only have been ensuring UK courts upheld UK law. Are you suggesting that UK courts should show disregard for UK law?

---

I’m saying boot the despicable Keunt back to where he came from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

I’m saying boot the despicable Keunt back to where he came from.

---

So disregard for UK law, then. That's fine. I'm not disagreeing with you about suggesting he should be booted out, but we need to sort our own laws out to allow that to happen. Funnily enough, we have the power to do just that, in or out of the EU. Why haven't we? These things have been rumbling on for years and has been a fault of all our major parties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

So disregard for UK law, then. That's fine. I'm not disagreeing with you about suggesting he should be booted out, but we need to sort our own laws out to allow that to happen. Funnily enough, we have the power to do just that, in or out of the EU. Why haven't we? These things have been rumbling on for years and has been a fault of all our major parties.

---

You’re right Eric. These things are a right mess, and as you say, are so easy to clear up or change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

Do you think we are too left / liberal leaning on these matters ? if so how do we square these political views.

I'm not in the camp where we just allow such freedoms , costs and liberties , as it is taken advantage of .

One would consider the right wing political world agreeing with me , whereas the Liberal and current Left socialist model would not.

I've always voted with a socialist viewpoint , perhaps I'm not now ???, however I'm no right winger .

I want social justices and rights , but not at no cost or accountability , this goes for justice , benefits , immigration , government spending ,

Of course we need our policies o be fair but not at no cost or rule ,however unpopular that is as a policy left or right .

I'm drifting away on an unknown political cloud .:sherlock:

---

I think it's simply a question of what's right and what's wrong -irrespective of the rule of law.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

By the looks of that article (I know someone also posted a Daily Mail article but that's hardly likely to be accurate), there are home office failings in deporting him. If he was ordered to leave in 2000, how come it took until 2008 for the Home Secretary to issue a deportation order? There must be a story there. Saying that, this is the home office we're talking about. It has bungled lots of things up over many decades and has been generally ineffective regardless of who has been in power (yet some blame the EU.....).

Ultimately, the law is the law and whether or not it seems like a fair or reasonable judgement, it appears that the correct justice according to the laws of the UK has been served - we've had laws on unlawful imprisonment for centuries. If we're not happy with things like this, then laws need to be changed.

---

If there was a law that said only people in even numbered houses could use the NHS, that would be the law - it wouldn't be right though. I don't give a fig for those who make our laws and deliver 'justice'..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lardy

That's the thing with human rights, they either apply to everyone or no one. Theres no middle ground. If you think it's ok for someone to be locked up unlawfully, even if he's a c**t who deserves it as this guy clearly does, then you accept that one day one of your loved ones can be locked up unlawfully too.

As said above, the real question is why he was up for deportation in 2000 and years later it still hadn't happened. This guy's not from the EU, but it resonates with something that came up a few times during the Leave referendum discussions. The UK hasn't got the power to deport criminals back to the EU - well, as I said a few times on here, the UK does have the power but the UK doesn't seem to use it. That's not the EU's fault, it's the UK's fault. So why is the UK so crap at following through? To me, it doesn't seem to be a policy problem but applying the policy.

---

Why is the UK 'crap at following through ' ? I'll tell you why. the British political class have spent more time worrying about being seen to do the 'right thing', 'honouring their commitments to other countries', and generally bending over to every other country's will [unless hiding under the Yanks' skirts], than sticking up for the people/taxpayers in the country they allegedly represent....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

“The UK was ordered not to deport him from the country by the European court of human rights”. Says it all. Thank fu*k for Brexit.

---

How does Brexit have an impact on the UK's commitment to the European Convention of Human Rights?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

How does Brexit have an impact on the UK's commitment to the European Convention of Human Rights?

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The UK could decide to deport him if they wanted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

The UK could decide to deport him if they wanted.

---

But the court overseeing the ECHR is not an EU institution. There are 47 different European countries in the Council of Europe and unless the UK independently agrees to leave the Council the jurisdiction of the Court will remain unchanged after Brexit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

But the court overseeing the ECHR is not an EU institution. There are 47 different European countries in the Council of Europe and unless the UK independently agrees to leave the Council the jurisdiction of the Court will remain unchanged after Brexit.

---

Oh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

But the court overseeing the ECHR is not an EU institution. There are 47 different European countries in the Council of Europe and unless the UK independently agrees to leave the Council the jurisdiction of the Court will remain unchanged after Brexit.

---

Who do you think you are, coming on spouting facts?

Too many ill informed people think the ECHR is an EU body while in fact it is a UN body.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JumpersforGoalposts

Too many ill informed people think the ECHR is an EU body while in fact it is a UN body.

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Correct except for the UN bit.http://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/wh...rt-of-justice/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JumpersforGoalposts

Too many ill informed people think the ECHR is an EU body while in fact it is a UN body.

---

Brexit is not going to do what many people think it will, and I don't blame the people for that because why should all of us know the intricate legal ins and outs.

But people have been told things that aren't true by the media for many years, and the politicians haven't done enough to make sure they are accurate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

The UK could decide to deport him if they wanted.

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Correct. I remember listening to David Mellor a couple of years ago. He pointed out that the British Govt. had complete and final control of its borders, irrespective of the EU..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Correct. I remember listening to David Mellor a couple of years ago. He pointed out that the British Govt. had complete and final control of its borders, irrespective of the EU..

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Not strictly true. Deportation is a matter for the courts and if individuals such as Abu Hamza for example use the Court system to its full extent it can take many years to get rid of individuals and very often legal attempts fail meaning we are stuck with far too many undesirables.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vindec

Not strictly true. Deportation is a matter for the courts and if individuals such as Abu Hamza for example use the Court system to its full extent it can take many years to get rid of individuals and very often legal attempts fail meaning we are stuck with far too many undesirables.

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But it's UK courts, think that's the point here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lardy

But it's UK courts, think that's the point here.

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The post to which I was replying stated that "the British Government had complete and final control of its borders irrespective of the EU". This is incorrect. Our Government and Court systems are completely independent. The Government has no control over decisions made by the Court.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vindec

The post to which I was replying stated that "the British Government had complete and final control of its borders irrespective of the EU". This is incorrect. Our Government and Court systems are completely independent. The Government has no control over decisions made by the Court.

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That's true and I hope it stays that way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vindec

The post to which I was replying stated that "the British Government had complete and final control of its borders irrespective of the EU". This is incorrect. Our Government and Court systems are completely independent. The Government has no control over decisions made by the Court.

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As a 'free' country, the UK cannot influence the judiciary, true. It does make the laws though, and our spineless, weak, namby pamby politicians are the ones who could implement changes, not the EU..