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As it seems the vogue
To make a fuss about things which aren't being discussed on here....
Surprised there are no threads about the spending corruption by the leave campaign in the referendum.
Looks really bad from what I can make out.
Im not sure what they can do about it, as I'm sure they aren't about to declare the election void.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Question though - is this the reason that the Tory press have gone into overdrive re: anti-Semitism, or is it the upcoming local elections?
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Question though - is this the reason that the Tory press have gone into overdrive re: anti-Semitism, or is it the upcoming local elections?
Both.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Question though - is this the reason that the Tory press have gone into overdrive re: anti-Semitism, or is it the upcoming local elections?
I think they have spotted a moment to give a labour a good kicking, people appear to be buying it again too.
Plenty of allies within the Labour party.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
They had a phone in on Radio5 about it this week, discussed at length the options, who said what,when, Vote Leave compared to LeaveEU etc.
The outcome is that it's being investigated re what the man said who then outed as being Gay etc. The gist being that a donation was made ( I think to LeaveEU) rather than Vote Leave - or whatever they were called.
The end part summed it up though - even if this was a 'dodgy' donation, it still didnt add up to what was spent on the 'Remain' campaign. That's what Radio5 surmised anyway - whether that is the case or not I wouldnt know, how much was spent.
The side issue was that large companies / vested interests could run their own publicity. So if George Soros wants to take an advert on why the he wants to UK to stay or leave - then he could do.
Take it one step further - was Russia meddling with Brexit , were they running campaigns / videos etc to sway the decision ? - how will we know ?, unless FaceBook, Twitter and Google who was paying for these adverts? - and they wont do that.
If both campaigns were bent surely we should run it again and ensure both act within the rules? There is only one fathomable reason why leavers froth at the mouth when you mention a second ref for a laugh and that is because they think that the win was a fluke.
Absolutely no doubt that money is the biggest threat to democracy though, what a mess.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
If both campaigns were bent surely we should run it again and ensure both act within the rules? There is only one fathomable reason why leavers froth at the mouth when you mention a second ref for a laugh and that is because they think that the win was a fluke.
Absolutely no doubt that money is the biggest threat to democracy though, what a mess.
There are more companies involved than what have been mentioned.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Agreed, it was a mess - not sure it is such a mess now though.
I would say this , If Remain won and it was the other way around, would they now say - fair enough, lets have another one - 100% they wouldn't.
The dynamics have changed now, a referendum is a question at a moment in time, at that time we voted leave. There is clearly an issue with immigration and lack of population control - and it is out of control, we used to be a country of 55 odd million in the mid 90's I think, it is now nearly 70 million. There is clearly an issue of who / what we can trade.
The EU could have listened - they didnt and we all got the result and the confused mess which came next.
We also saw the EU in their true colours, it's too late now. So that makes us all Brexiteers now, we would never get the EU rebate back, we would never get the other opt outs we had. If the EU went back to a pre maastright arrangement - then there maybe a chance of going back. Most people in the Europe are fine with trading as one, using the same standards etc but I dont think they want one EU country.
Maybe the question should be to all EU countries, do they want to stay in the EU ? - why dont they all have a vote ?, do you think they would ? - I dont and that wouldnt be a fluke
What do you mean by this?
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
I am going to switch to Radio2 and switch off the politics from now on - far too distracting, no right or wrong just inflated opinions
Try Twitter, you get bombarded with propaganda from all sides, but at least you know the truth is in there somewhere :biggrin:
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Gina Miller this morning said along the lines that we cant turn back time, article 50 has been initiated and started. It cant be stopped, we have left. A second referendum would be to what ? - decide what Brexit we want ?. From what I have read and seen on it - lets say we voted to actually stay IN - we couldnt, we'd have to reapply, we wouldnt get the rebate, we wouldnt get the opt outs etc, we would go IN as a 'new country' and accept all the things which we previously did not have to adhere to.
Gina Miller said the only options on a second referendum would be staying in the customs union (which means staying in the EU but without any authority), free movement of people and goods, immigration etc - the choice would be that or clean Brexit - or accept whatever is the outcome of what they are negotiating now.
I had to leave halfway through the program - but that was the gist of it. It was Messy, it's becoming clearer, a second referendum and it'll be much more messy and worse than it was in the beginning.
I am going to switch to Radio2 and switch off the politics from now on - far too distracting, no right or wrong just inflated opinions
Didn't hear the interview with Gina miller, but I find the idea that Brexit could not be stopped very strange.
The guy who wrote the article 50 clause seems to think Britain could just withdraw it's letter and carry on as though nothing had happened. Also a senior QC advising the pm was of the same opinion.
Even if that wasn't the case, do you really think that if there was a second ref, which gave a clear victory to remain they wouldn't find a way to stop it?
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Twitter, like FaceBook and all the rest is the last bastion of bullsh1t & fake news. So many experts from all sides you have never heard of before, saying they have the answer, a bit like a convention of bible bashers :)
Whether I like them or not - I tend to trust Kunsberg, Pienaar and the others more than 'Bob' broadcasting from his bedroom about Israeli agents of the Rothchilds or 2 headed shape shifting lizards of David Icke.
Are they? I have seen a lot of things written on Twitter which present an opposing viewpoint to the MSM, and they actually turn out to be true.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Whats worse, foreign meddling, Cambridge Analytica, overspending ( google "overspending on elections followed by a party name y ) ,this has a long way to run and I have a feeling the above three are not just one party issues,overspend has gone on for years
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Mars - voter analysis and persuasion techniques have been in every election since god knows when. The side that wins claims victory the side that loses claims foul.
Wales Bales - maybe that is right, but for every quirky factual theory - there are hundreds which are fiction. My trust in the BBC / Channel 4 etc is that with the rest - you wouldnt know who to believe and who is 'meddling'.
For every fact there are a hundred fictions, like a gambler who only tells you of his winnings...
Read the Trump thread, lardy & co relied entirely upon MSM sources while framing their arguments, and they made fools of themselves. There were regurgitating 100% pure propaganda.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
My message is if you cant think for yourself, don't vote , i have asked number of people, and can't find a single person who was effected by the election overspend , or the miss use of targeted social media. lets move on
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
My message is if you cant think for yourself, don't vote , i have asked number of people, and can't find a single person who was effected by the election overspend , or the miss use of targeted social media. lets move on
What would happen if it transpires that a well known country that is not Russia meddled in the US elections? It seem like at present everything depends on Russia being the bad guys, and all roads lead to Moscow, even theCambridge Analytica/Facebook controversy.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
My message is if you cant think for yourself, don't vote , i have asked number of people, and can't find a single person who was effected by the election overspend , or the miss use of targeted social media. lets move on
You've asked people if they've been effected by online marketing?
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Read the Trump thread, lardy & co relied entirely upon MSM sources while framing their arguments, and they made fools of themselves. There were regurgitating 100% pure propaganda.
That's actually a good example of propaganda, because:
1) it's something you keep repeating, hoping people will believe it, and
2) it's easy to check out and find false, because almost all of the sources are Trump himself.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
That's actually a good example of propaganda, because:
1) it's something you keep repeating, hoping people will believe it, and
2) it's easy to check out and find false, because almost all of the sources are Trump himself.
You may have noticed that the MSM don't talk about the Trump Russia Collusion very much these days.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
You may have noticed that the MSM don't talk about the Trump Russia Collusion very much these days.
Which was the last MSM source I used that, in your opinion, I made a fool of myself over in the trump thread? Should be easy to find, right?
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Which was the last MSM source I used that, in your opinion, I made a fool of myself over in the trump thread? Should be easy to find, right?
I speak in jest, but you were quoting the MSM left, right and centre, while at the same time disparaging Fox News, Daily Caller, etc.. I have no allegiance to any media outlet, but I do quote them if I think they have got the story right.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I speak in jest, but you were quoting the MSM left, right and centre, while at the same time disparaging Fox News, Daily Caller, etc.. I have no allegiance to any media outlet, but I do quote them if I think they have got the story right.
Apology accepted.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Apology accepted.
Don't take it to heart, you were a good sport :biggrin:
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
You've asked people if they've been effected by online marketing?
no i simply said to a number of work colleagues and friends did social media effect your vote they screwed their face up or laughed and said , no, not really i can think for myself .
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
What would happen if it transpires that a well known country that is not Russia meddled in the US elections? It seem like at present everything depends on Russia being the bad guys, and all roads lead to Moscow, even theCambridge Analytica/Facebook controversy.
I don't even know who it is behind it , lets hope we find out , Russia does seem to be the focus of attention around the world from left , center,moderate and right wing governments even coalitions , what we don't know or see is the bigger picture , something is up in the world order though , all the way down to the City being in second , what is going on ???????.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
no i simply said to a number of work colleagues and friends did social media effect your vote they screwed their face up or laughed and said , no, not really i can think for myself .
Im not sure you appreciate how powerful these techniques are.
I couldn't say with any confidence that I haven't been affected by them.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
no i simply said to a number of work colleagues and friends did social media effect your vote they screwed their face up or laughed and said , no, not really i can think for myself .
If you asked people if advertising had an effect on them, what do you think they'd say?
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Im not sure you appreciate how powerful these techniques are.
I couldn't say with any confidence that I haven't been affected by them.
How would you rate them compared to the established media?
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
How would you rate them compared to the established media?
When is the line where established media stops and this starts?
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
When is the line where established media stops and this starts?
There is the establishment media, the alternative media, propaganda agents posing as legitimate companies, and state intelligence agencies. From what we have seen during the past year or two, there does seem to be some overlap here.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
If you asked people if advertising had an effect on them, what do you think they'd say?
I honestly don't know,I think it is viewed as an Initial interest most get turned of , for example, pop ups all everyone does is moan about them , adverts on TV are used for urination and chomping , stuff through the letter box in the bin?,
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
There is the establishment media, the alternative media, propaganda agents posing as legitimate companies, and state intelligence agencies. From what we have seen during the past year or two, there does seem to be some overlap here.
^^^^ I forgot to mention social media.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I honestly don't know,I think it is viewed as an Initial interest most get turned of , for example, pop ups all everyone does is moan about them , adverts on TV are used for urination and chomping , stuff through the letter box in the bin?,
All these mega corporations must have been wasting their money for decades then. You should be a consultant for them, you'd make a fortune with an articulate argument like that in the boardroom.
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Re: As it seems the vogue
The Script
"Hi, I'm(A) ____________, and I'm (B) _________________...
(B) Our greatest responsibility is to serve our _________________ communities. We are extremely proud of the quality, balanced journalism that _________________ News produces.
(A) But we're concerned about the troubling trend of irresponsible, one sided news stories plaguing our country. The sharing of biased and false news has become all too common on social media.
(B) More alarming, some media outlets publish these same fake stories... stories that just aren't true, without checking facts first.
(A) Unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda to control 'exactly what people think'...This is extremely dangerous to a democracy.
(B) At _________________ it's our responsibility to pursue and report the truth. We understand Truth is neither politically 'left nor right.' Our commitment to factual reporting is the foundation of our credibility, now more than ever.
(A) But we are human and sometimes our reporting might fall short. If you believe our coverage is unfair please reach out to us by going to _________________.com and clicking on CONTENT CONCERNS. We value your comments. We will respond back to you.
(B) We work very hard to seek the truth and strive to be fair, balanced and factual... We consider it our honor, our privilege to responsibly deliver the news every day.
(A) Thank you for watching and we appreciate your feedback"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL1zwMtz_Ho
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Re: As it seems the vogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The Script
"Hi, I'm(A) ____________, and I'm (B) _________________...
(B) Our greatest responsibility is to serve our _________________ communities. We are extremely proud of the quality, balanced journalism that _________________ News produces.
(A) But we're concerned about the troubling trend of irresponsible, one sided news stories plaguing our country. The sharing of biased and false news has become all too common on social media.
(B) More alarming, some media outlets publish these same fake stories... stories that just aren't true, without checking facts first.
(A) Unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda to control 'exactly what people think'...This is extremely dangerous to a democracy.
(B) At _________________ it's our responsibility to pursue and report the truth. We understand Truth is neither politically 'left nor right.' Our commitment to factual reporting is the foundation of our credibility, now more than ever.
(A) But we are human and sometimes our reporting might fall short. If you believe our coverage is unfair please reach out to us by going to _________________.com and clicking on CONTENT CONCERNS. We value your comments. We will respond back to you.
(B) We work very hard to seek the truth and strive to be fair, balanced and factual... We consider it our honor, our privilege to responsibly deliver the news every day.
(A) Thank you for watching and we appreciate your feedback"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL1zwMtz_Ho
'Free Press'
No different here, free to say whatever the executives of the company which owns it wants them to say.
I saw this last night, incidentally it keeps getting removed on Reddit and Youtube.
