Advice wanted - Working hours whilst undertaking a days training at a different site

Looking for a bit of reassurance from someone who knows the law I guess.

I know what I think but I don't know if I am 'right'. I work for a local authority and attended a mandatory training day with my colleagues on Monday at a different site to my normal working base. We are expected to fill in a spreadsheet with our working hours each day. I live near my normal working base and just assumed that our travel time would be paid so I entered the time I would have arrived at work based on when we left (I got a lift from a colleague) and when I would have arrived back at my normal base and left work (again, I got a lift from a colleague). This was a full days training that ended earlier than they thought but because of traffic we only got back at 4.55.

We have since been told to enter the time we arrived at training and the time we left training, the result is that travel time from training to my normal base is therefore not paid and I am left having to make up time to make up for this. Am I wrong in thinking this is a load of rubbish? My manager was adamant and sometimes it is hard to argue your case in a busy office when somebody just 'knows' they are right.

Any help greatly welcomed and also looking forward to some creative abuse/trolling :hehe:

Tell him you know all about his illicit affair and you are fully prepared to tell his missus.

PS it works well for promotions too.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Looking for a bit of reassurance from someone who knows the law I guess.

I know what I think but I don't know if I am 'right'. I work for a local authority and attended a mandatory training day with my colleagues on Monday at a different site to my normal working base. We are expected to fill in a spreadsheet with our working hours each day. I live near my normal working base and just assumed that our travel time would be paid so I entered the time I would have arrived at work based on when we left (I got a lift from a colleague) and when I would have arrived back at my normal base and left work (again, I got a lift from a colleague). This was a full days training that ended earlier than they thought but because of traffic we only got back at 4.55.

We have since been told to enter the time we arrived at training and the time we left training, the result is that travel time from training to my normal base is therefore not paid and I am left having to make up time to make up for this. Am I wrong in thinking this is a load of rubbish? My manager was adamant and sometimes it is hard to argue your case in a busy office when somebody just 'knows' they are right.

Any help greatly welcomed and also looking forward to some creative abuse/trolling :hehe:

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I think you need to check your contract of employment. You must have a HR dept who would know the answer.
All I would add is that normally home to work is not normally paid.

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Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn

I think you need to check your contract of employment. You must have a HR dept who would know the answer.
All I would add is that normally home to work is not normally paid.

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Since you put it like this, I'm not sure if my council tax should be used to pay someone for travelling to work and back. The money could be used to fix the pothole outside my house! :biggrin:

Any travel away, in addition to your travel to your normal place of work, should be counted as working time and not your own time.
Have a look at the gov.uk website - sure there's some advice on there, but it might say something different on your contract.

You sound like a civil servant

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Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn

I think you need to check your contract of employment. You must have a HR dept who would know the answer.
All I would add is that normally home to work is not normally paid.

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HR departments work for the employer and will always act in their interest. What the OP needs is a union

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

You sound like a civil servant

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I certainly won't be civil if they try to steal my 57 minutes from me.

If the training was actually of any use I would just suck it up but it was basically team building on a shoestring budget so management could pat each other on the back for being so attentive.

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Originally Posted by RichardM

HR departments work for the employer and will always act in their interest. What the OP needs is a union

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This has become very apparent to me recently. I have nevertheless emailed HR for their advice, unfortunately they are the only department in the building who are allowed an inordinate amount of time to respond to queries, the rest of us get in the shit if we take more than a day.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Any travel away, in addition to your travel to your normal place of work, should be counted as working time and not your own time.
Have a look at the gov.uk website - sure there's some advice on there, but it might say something different on your contract.

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Thanks for this, I did have a look earlier on .gov.uk but it was hard to find something that fitted my circumstances well.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Any travel away, in addition to your travel to your normal place of work, should be counted as working time and not your own time.
Have a look at the gov.uk website - sure there's some advice on there, but it might say something different on your contract.

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Travel to work has never been counted as working time in any job I've had or anyone else I know.

When I have travelled for work any travel time above my normal home-to-base commute has counted as overtime

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I certainly won't be civil if they try to steal my 57 minutes from me.

If the training was actually of any use I would just suck it up but it was basically team building on a shoestring budget so management could pat each other on the back for being so attentive.

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Why don't you leave a minute early for the next 57 days?

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Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc

Travel to work has never been counted as working time in any job I've had or anyone else I know.

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This.

I regularly travel over weekends for work, up to 48 hours travel some weeks, no pay, or time in lieu, it's just part of the job, that applies to all levels within the company. That's been over the last 30 years with 3 different employers, so not unique to current employer.

I guess it's just the culture within each individual business or industry.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Looking for a bit of reassurance from someone who knows the law I guess.

I know what I think but I don't know if I am 'right'. I work for a local authority and attended a mandatory training day with my colleagues on Monday at a different site to my normal working base. We are expected to fill in a spreadsheet with our working hours each day. I live near my normal working base and just assumed that our travel time would be paid so I entered the time I would have arrived at work based on when we left (I got a lift from a colleague) and when I would have arrived back at my normal base and left work (again, I got a lift from a colleague). This was a full days training that ended earlier than they thought but because of traffic we only got back at 4.55.

We have since been told to enter the time we arrived at training and the time we left training, the result is that travel time from training to my normal base is therefore not paid and I am left having to make up time to make up for this. Am I wrong in thinking this is a load of rubbish? My manager was adamant and sometimes it is hard to argue your case in a busy office when somebody just 'knows' they are right.

Any help greatly welcomed and also looking forward to some creative abuse/trolling :hehe:

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This will depend on the policy you have for working away from your normal place of work. This policy should be published on your intranet. Also seek advice from your Union rep.

Don't forget to retain your meal receipts as you can claim tax for any meal when working 5 miles from your normal place of work.

Also, the driver can probably claim about 45p per mile plus an extra allowance for carrying a passenger.

If the training venue was closer to your home than work would you be working an extra 57 minutes for nothing to compensate the Council for the additional time you had at home? Of course not so the answer must be you cannot claim for the additional time it took you to reach your training venue.

For the sake of 57 mins for a one off training course it doesn’t seem worth the hassle to go to war over.

I would go straight to my trade union officer on this one if I were you.

One out, all out.

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

I actually remember working in those conditions at the council. I felt forced to go on strike and lose a days pay as instructed by the local union rep. He didnt lose a days pay - lesson 1 learned straight away. Many other lessons have been learned over the next 30 + years.

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The place I used to work has now shut down because union reps was so insistent on striking, we can offer you all 4% pay rise this year nope we want to go on strike that’s not good enough and most people there just followed him :shrug: I’ll never forgive him because I could’ve easily worked there for 50 years and we was on good money

If this is a one off then I think your being a bit petty. Aside from the fact that the course might have enhanced your knowledge, ability, worth, prospects having an argument after the event about an hours travelling time doesn’t seem a good thing to do.
Particularly as very few people get paid travelling time and most do it every day. There are folks in the valleys and elsewhere who spend more than two hours every day getting to and from work in Cardiff.
If your asked to attend another course ask the question up front.
I’m guessing that you have a long working career ahead of you.

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Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY

If this is a one off then I think your being a bit petty.

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Would his employer have the same view if he went home 57 minutes early from his normal shift? Just for a one off?

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Originally Posted by Harry Monk

Would his employer have the same view if he went home 57 minutes early from his normal shift? Just for a one off?

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Was about to make this point.

Thanks for replies everyone. HR got back today and basically said I was right without saying manager was wrong. They rang my manager this morning and ironed it all out and the result is that what I entered stays and I am not expected to make any time up.

This thread is a good example of asking for facts and getting feelings.

If it's off-site then surely your employer should make you start at your usual time and then ferry you to the site?

By doing what you've done you've actually saved them money.

But as others have said - check your contract - I've had contracts that have named the site as "anywhere in the UK"

I would say you would get your regular hours that you get on an average working day. you should not get extra time for the travel, neither should you lose time because the course finished early (that is no fault of your own) and you couldn't get back to your place of work within your regular hours.

If your being asked to travel a couple of hours extra then you should count that.

If its 30 mins around the local area then suck it up bro.

If you think for local travel, some people will actually save time getting there, should they have to work that time extra?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Was about to make this point.

Thanks for replies everyone. HR got back today and basically said I was right without saying manager was wrong. They rang my manager this morning and ironed it all out and the result is that what I entered stays and I am not expected to make any time up.

This thread is a good example of asking for facts and getting feelings.

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Why didn't you name the thread "Facts wanted" rather than "advice wanted" then??

My feelings didn't come in to my response. You have a Union rep., I assume??

Did you two follow me from the politics forum desperate for an argument? Chill out, problem is sorted now and I thanked everyone for their help. Some responses were less factual than others and based around individual experiences, that is all I was saying.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Did you two follow me from the politics forum desperate for an argument? Chill out, problem is sorted now and I thanked everyone for their help. Some responses were less factual than others and based around individual experiences, that is all I was saying.

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Didn't follow you from anywhere mate. You have a good weekend.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Nick

Didn't follow you from anywhere mate. You have a good weekend.:thumbup:

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You too Nick :ayatollah:

Cheers Matey.