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5 minute feature by Ian Wright on us being lazy attacking then 5 minutes by Jermaine jenas who called us “passive” in defending today.
I thought we did ok! Anybody watch on sky? What did they say? I was expecting MOTD2 to big us up tonight but was quite the opposite.
It’s not called bias broadcasting company for nothing
I didn't see it but I certainly wouldn't pay any attention to what Ian Wright has to say
He started to call us Swansea at one point and I tend to agree with you about anything he says. Jenas had more of a point, but it seemed to me he didn't know who some of our players were - it brought to mind the line from the World Cup that the women pundits showed that they had put their research in beforehand, whereas it was pretty obvious some of the male ones had not.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazadona10
Most of the ex pros seem to do very little research, when Hoddle commentated on the Saudi match he even admitted he didn’t know any players. How do these people keep getting jobs, how hard is it to at least read a team’s Wikipedia page before going on tv. It’s not like they’re doing anything all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Say what you want about Carragher and Neville but at least they have a clue.
Just read the WOL transcript of what was said and I think it’s pretty fair if you view it from a point of view of looking to win games rather than just be plucky cannon fodder. If we are to survive we need to go into games with belief. NW now needs to stop making comments about how well we’re doing with what we’ve got as it just reinforces in the players minds that they’re not good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
He also needs to start believing himself that we can actually compete, because we can...
I'm certain what he says in the media and what he says to the players away from the cameras are two entirely different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penarth Blues
In a way it’s a compliment not to just say well done Cardiff you scored and gave Arsenal a good game. But rather highlight areas where with some improvement we could have got something from the game.
It was a little harsh not to point out any positives I think, but overall I would prefer that we get criticised as a top flight team here to compete, than patronised as a plucky also-ran. Hopefully it reinforces that message to the players.
I'm sure you're right, but it's time for us to stop playing the plucky underdog card now after that performance. Everyone knows we have the cheapest squad by miles in this league, and the least experienced players so we don't need to bang that drum any more either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
What today showed was that by adopting a more attacking approach we expose ourselves a bit more in defence but that generally we coped OK except for a few uncharacteristic errors by our centrehalves which led to their goals. We can do this I think - but it has to start by really having a go at Chelsea next match. In this NW is right, we have to go out to compete rather than just try and shut up shop and I look forward to us learning how to do that really quickly...
Completely agree - and that's the most positive thing out of yesterday. We are now seen as being able to compete in games and criticized where we should have done better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
I thought it was interesting to listen to. Ian Wright suggesting our movement in the opposition box was crap is something we can learn from. It wasn't a case that they were being unnecessarily negative, more pointing out what extra (in their opinions) we need to do to make the step up. Jenas was right. We were passive at times at the back. Usually we're far more authoritative in defence, yet we were hesitant on times and backed off too often.
That's taking nothing away from the spirit and the general performance, which was one of the best I can remember from us. Pats on the back are ok to a point, but if we're to improve and stay up, we probably need better again. Learning about little details that can make the difference is a vital part of that. Warnock is prohibited learning loads as well. All good.
I disagree, to hear Wright talk it was as if we could have beaten Arsenal 6-2 if we had been up to Premier League standards with our attacking movement and finishing. Now, i know Arsenal aren't the best at the back, but when's the last time one of the top teams beat them by a score like that? I can remember an 8-2 at Man United and a 6-3 at Man City, but it's a bit rich talking about how we should have punished Arsenal in a manner that no else has done for five years or more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
^^This is pretty much the way I saw it from the panel and good to have in depth analysis of usQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I was quite surprised by Talk Sport - Adrian Durham who usually slagged us off said we were unlucky and played well.
He also bigged up the support we gave the team.
Nice to get a bit of analysis really. Usually while they are turning off the lights "oh and Cardiff, it's going to be a struggle for them isn't it?"
"yes it is"
Because he was at stadium and Warnock has worked with him - it was a bit of mutual respect - Warnock knows what Mr Durham does for a living - no doubt he's sat in on production meetings when he worked there so knows damn well how it worksQuote:
Originally Posted by Toadstool
It will be back to his usual self today but that's what they all do on that radio station - if they were constantly complimentary they wouldn't get Mr Outraged from Carmarthen/Burgess Hill who has been a Liverpool/Man Utd fan all his life ringing in to demand the sacking of their manager
Strangely enough, coming into the stadium yesterday, I noticed a bus from West Wales full of Arsenal fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by binman
I may be thick, but I just don't get it. :shrug:
Apart from the result I thought yesterday was a great day and another step forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
I watched MOTD and was disappointed that our good points were almost ignored but found myself agreeing to a great degree with the pundits. I thought we played some really good football.
We are creating chances but struggling to make the best of them. The Arter and Reid misses being a good example.
And some of our defensive blunders led to more problems and goals.
But I accept that we were playing a much better team, that we had a new shape and overall I thought we did really well. Also a team that showed more savvy.
Oh so close!!
The margins are so fine. Morrison had great chances to score against Bournemouth, Huddersfield and Arsenal. We need those chances to be converted.
For me, I’d like to see more of the same, more closing down by our defenders, more venom and better accuracy with our dead balls, and a goal or two. Easy��
It wasn't negative at all. He was pointing out we need to be more clinical in the box. We do. And Jenas saying defence backing off too much was spot on.
I think the gripe is that neither pundit gave us any credit for running Arsenal so close and just highlighted our weak areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc
Presumably Arsenal must have had weak areas as well as they conceded twice to a shit team like us and just scraped a win, but this was largely ignored. It did feel a little one-sided.
We'll agree to disagree then. I didn't get that impression from WrightyQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
It was close, we did great, but we lost. Reserve credit for when we win a game. Who needs credit for losing.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill
On the other hand Henry Winter, the Times chief football writer, who was very unfair to us after the Man City game last season, wrote a very good report about how brave Warnock was, and what an exciting game it was.
:ayatollah:
Didn't show the penalty shout we had either
It is possible to lose but to still do some things well is it not? You yourself say "we did great". No acknowledgment of that from the punditsQuote:
Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc
By your logic there is no need for pundits other than for them to say "Team A won they were good. Team B lost they were bad"
It just felt lazy. They focused on the goals only. Of course you can show pretty much any goal anytime and highlight defencive errors- after all how many goals are caused by good defending?Quote:
Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc
Of course you can always say “he needs to get closer there” but not many teams could do what arsenal did to us yesterday. Had we got closer they’d probably have just skipped past us as once our central defenders are turned that is pretty much that, it was the case in the championship so it will definitely be the case in the premier league.
We went for it yesterday and really went for them the way none of us were expecting. They didn’t even acknowledge that.
Perhaps a test for pundits would be for them to have to predict the score live on air before kick off. You’d imagine those two yesterday would have forecast a 2,3 or even 4 goal canter for Arsenal. Would be hard to justify their criticism after a 2-3 scoreline then. Or would that scenario highlight their ignorance? The City fans I spoke to prior to yesterday’s game were quite bouyant and while not out & out predicting a City victory they were confident that we’d give them a game, which was justified by the close result. City fans 1-Highly paid ‘pundits’ 0 in my opinion.
Studies like this have been done in football, lots of other sports and even the economy. And in terms of predicting things pundits/experts are no better than the average man on the street.Quote:
Originally Posted by splott parker
Prediction is hard as none of them would have known how we would approach the game etc..... However, the value in pundits is being able to explain what has happened and why. I don’t think the MOTD pundits did that.
Eg show me any goal from
outside the box and the pundits can say “the defender should get closer there.” It’s just lazy.
They’re a waste of time & money in my opinion, I’ve never taken much notice of them with their arrows & that pointing out he should have been there or he should have been over there, all bollocks. Or should managers listen to their advice put their stupid hindsight into action meaning that every game ends up 0-0?Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Reminds me of Brian Moore on The Big Match, he, apparently, used to do 4 or 5 commentaries on a Sunday morning, then pick the best one for the afternoon show. In my daft younger days after getting in from the 12-2 gallop I used to think Christ this man knows his football, he’s nigh on predicting every goal, penalty save, price of the hot dogs etc. The frigging charlatan was commentating nearly 24 hours after the final whistle 😂😂😂