Our saviour the January centre forward signing

This raises so many questions. Listening to the various phone-ins on the way home yesterday, it seems like many think that signing a c/f in January (Crouch seems to be the latest favoured name) is our only way to avoiding the drop.

Firstly if the owner / manager / club didn't deem it necessary to sign a forward in the summer, why part with the money now? From a business perspective it probably takes more justification now than then, especially if were further adrift in 2 months time.

Secondly, a c/f is only as good as the service he gets and I can't see where that's going to improve. There are few forwards who can create & finish and those that can are like rarities & on mega bucks.

Thirdly and most importantly, where is this saviour coming from. The biggest criticism levelled at us is that we only by Championship players and have no Premiership experience. Any Premiership striker is already in their clubs 25 and not available. A Championship striker is more of the same and no-one currently stands out. Our ability to scout outside of the Football League appears limited and could we attract anyone of the right quality & commitment.

I hope I'm totally wrong and that we can magic up and are prepared to pay for our saviour but I won't hold my breath.

For what it's worth I think we need two centre forwards, if we buy/loan the key man & he gets injured early on we'll be back in the same situation.

Charlie Austin & Jay Rodriguez anyone? :getscoat:

You could put Terry Henry up front it wouldn't make a dfference the forwards have no service anyway.

You can sign players that are in the 25 in January so your ‘most important’ point is irrelevant - that being said Origi or Llorente would be an upgrade

Any signings in January need to be for the long term.

We are going down.

Simply not good enough all over the park.

Love to be suprised and proved wrong.

Is Connor Wickham a viable signing?

He hardly plays for Palace but he'd suit our 'style' and is over his injury.

I guess he'd cost a fair bit though

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Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton

You can sign players that are in the 25 in January so your ‘most important’ point is irrelevant - that being said Origi or Llorente would be an upgrade

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Why is it irrelevant? My point is if clubs have named a player in their 25 at the start of the season, very few will part with a member of their squad in January, unless as you put it they get an upgrade. Austin is an example, hardly getting any time at Southampton but they're in the relegation fight with us, so why sell to a rival, unless it's for over the market odds.

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

This raises so many questions. Listening to the various phone-ins on the way home yesterday, it seems like many think that signing a c/f in January (Crouch seems to be the latest favoured name) is our only way to avoiding the drop.

Firstly if the owner / manager / club didn't deem it necessary to sign a forward in the summer, why part with the money now? From a business perspective it probably takes more justification now than then, especially if were further adrift in 2 months time.

Secondly, a c/f is only as good as the service he gets and I can't see where that's going to improve. There are few forwards who can create & finish and those that can are like rarities & on mega bucks.

Thirdly and most importantly, where is this saviour coming from. The biggest criticism levelled at us is that we only by Championship players and have no Premiership experience. Any Premiership striker is already in their clubs 25 and not available. A Championship striker is more of the same and no-one currently stands out. Our ability to scout outside of the Football League appears limited and could we attract anyone of the right quality & commitment.

I hope I'm totally wrong and that we can magic up and are prepared to pay for our saviour but I won't hold my breath.

For what it's worth I think we need two centre forwards, if we buy/loan the key man & he gets injured early on we'll be back in the same situation.

Charlie Austin & Jay Rodriguez anyone? :getscoat:

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I said Austin at the start of the season and was ( rightly) knocked back by a poster saying Southampton wouldn’t sell him to a relegation rival and he could do better than come to us.

As for Rodriguez then it’ll probably depend on how West Brom are doing.

Fact is most strikers who we could afford have been hoovered up by our rivals and the bigger Championship teams.

Our best chance is a gamble on a foreign striker. Even that won’t be cheap.

Maybe if Brighton are safeish they would sell Hemed ?

What happened to that Zohore fella ?

He went to sleep in May and has not been found yet, he may be hibernating

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I said Austin at the start of the season and was ( rightly) knocked back by a poster saying Southampton wouldn’t sell him to a relegation rival and he could do better than come to us.

As for Rodriguez then it’ll probably depend on how West Brom are doing.

Fact is most strikers who we could afford have been hoovered up by our rivals and the bigger Championship teams.

Our best chance is a gamble on a foreign striker. Even that won’t be cheap.

Maybe if Brighton are safeish they would sell Hemed ?

What happened to that Zohore fella ?

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Was about 12 months ago people were seriously worried clubs would be bidding £15 million for zohore- and the general consensus at the time (whatever people say now) would have been we should reject such an offer.

It’s a very strange one as he seems to have reverted to the player we signed.

With regards to replacements- there must be some around who would be well up for 5 months of premier league football to show what they could do- regardless of how adrift we are at Christmas.

Don't know why we didn't go for Dwight Gayle, I wouldn't really want Warnock sacked but I don't think we have any chance of staying up with him in charge

I think our biggest problem is Neil Warnock,totally out of his depth at this level. At championship level he is unrivalled. He doesnt seem to have the ability to take these players to another level which is needed. I just cant belive how toothless we are at this level,last season everyone moaned about the physicality of us, Harry Arter apart id dont see a fight in anyone else. My biggest disappointment has been Sean Morrison, defensivley lacking and his presence in the opposition box has been poor. One final point, why on earth do we do these ridiculous long throws, teams have always found them easy to defend.

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Originally Posted by jamieccfc

Don't know why we didn't go for Dwight Gayle, I wouldn't really want Warnock sacked but I don't think we have any chance of staying up with him in charge

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I think that is a complete load of bollocks to be honest. We've been competitive in a lot of our games but haven't had the quality of player to finish the job off. I'd argue that our tactics have been good enough to have got us a lot more points but we've struggled to adapt to the Prem with the players available to NW. He knows that but has gambled on team spirit being more important than players who might upset that, as well as having to make do with a very restricted budget it appears.

Against Fulham we were the better side and deservedly won. The same could be said for Newcastle and Burnley where we should have won. Arsenal we should have had at least a point. That would have put us on 11 points and looking a lot more secure.

I think a few of our fans have very short memories and are instead happy to parrot the lazy journalism about NW not being good enough

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Originally Posted by hueypianosmith

I think our biggest problem is Neil Warnock,totally out of his depth at this level. At championship level he is unrivalled. He doesnt seem to have the ability to take these players to another level which is needed. I just cant belive how toothless we are at this level,last season everyone moaned about the physicality of us, Harry Arter apart id dont see a fight in anyone else. My biggest disappointment has been Sean Morrison, defensivley lacking and his presence in the opposition box has been poor. One final point, why on earth do we do these ridiculous long throws, teams have always found them easy to defend.

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I'm beginning to think the same. Although, I still don't think there's anyone out there that could do enough to keep us up with this squad. I was in favour of giving Warnock a chance to see what he could do in the EPL as I thought he'd earned it. However, it's like he's not even trying. If someone could come in tomorrow, get rid of 3 or 4 players and replace them with more quality I'd pull the trigger on Warnock in a heartbeat.

You could spend £20m on a striker and he could still prove to be a dud. If those who honestly believe all we need are players of the ilk of Connor Wickham or the perpetually injured Charlie Austin who can't even get a game for Southampton will be our saviours they are living in fantasy land. Anyone from Crystal Palace or Southampton reading this will be laughing their socks off! Even if we were able to secure a striker where is the service coming from? Bobby Reid in a so called creative number 10 role who you could blow down with a feather and who can only pass the ball sideways!

Those who want Warnock sacked are equally deluded. Who do they want instead - Mark Hughes (in the managerial graveyard probably about to be sacked) or what about some foreign bloke who can't speak English? Both are as ludicrous as each other. The problem is the players. We have a Championship squad with Championship players who performed a miracle last year by getting promoted. One striker won't make a lot of difference especially those of the qualities of the aforementioned.

No manager in the World could improve our position with the current squad; you could make changes to the way we play but it wouldn't make an iota of difference as Premiership teams are able to deal with all we can throw at them. How many of our players would get into a Premiership team - Murphy maybe and Camarasa definitely but he is not even our player.

I am enjoying the ride of Premiership football with low expectation for our survival and suggest others do the same by not suggesting we spend money we haven't got on dross and by driving the club into even more debt.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

However, it's like he's not even trying.

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I simply don't understand in which way he's not trying! Matt Connolly is the only outfield player not to have featured in a Premiership match. The issues stem from the summer transfer window & none of us know the constraints or instructions he was given. We all know (including NW) that not getting a striker was a big mistake but I don't think anyone would have predicted Zohore & Hoilett's loss of form and NML's injury.

I suggest that 90% of the people on this board would pick the same 18 and most the same starting 11.

Every time we try to play expansive football we get caught on the counter as we're too open, as Klopp said the biggest mistake we made was to try & equalise.

I certainly have a criticism from yesterday, putting on Ward & Madine, whilst taking off the supply of Murphy was criminal.

Too accuse Warnock of not trying is a strange comment.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

You could spend £20m on a striker ......

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Spot only (deleted body of text to save space)

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Originally Posted by Vindec

You could spend £20m on a striker and he could still prove to be a dud. If those who honestly believe all we need are players of the ilk of Connor Wickham or the perpetually injured Charlie Austin who can't even get a game for Southampton will be our saviours they are living in fantasy land. Anyone from Crystal Palace or Southampton reading this will be laughing their socks off! Even if we were able to secure a striker where is the service coming from? Bobby Reid in a so called creative number 10 role who you could blow down with a feather and who can only pass the ball sideways!

Those who want Warnock sacked are equally deluded. Who do they want instead - Mark Hughes (in the managerial graveyard probably about to be sacked) or what about some foreign bloke who can't speak English? Both are as ludicrous as each other. The problem is the players. We have a Championship squad with Championship players who performed a miracle last year by getting promoted. One striker won't make a lot of difference especially those of the qualities of the aforementioned.

No manager in the World could improve our position with the current squad; you could make changes to the way we play but it wouldn't make an iota of difference as Premiership teams are able to deal with all we can throw at them. How many of our players would get into a Premiership team - Murphy maybe and Camarasa definitely but he is not even our player.

I am enjoying the ride of Premiership football with low expectation for our survival and suggest others do the same by not suggesting we spend money we haven't got on dross and by driving the club into even more debt.

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I agree with all of this.

Any player we could attract has either been here before and failed- or not been at this level which means they are untested and nobody else fancies them at this level for whatever reason.

Re the manager- the same applies- either someone else who has failed and been sacked at this level or take a total chance on someone who has never managed in the league before. With the squad Neil has built neither is likely to work.

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

I simply don't understand in which way he's not trying! Matt Connolly is the only outfield player not to have featured in a Premiership match. The issues stem from the summer transfer window & none of us know the constraints or instructions he was given. We all know (including NW) that not getting a striker was a big mistake but I don't think anyone would have predicted Zohore & Hoilett's loss of form and NML's injury.

I suggest that 90% of the people on this board would pick the same 18 and most the same starting 11.

Every time we try to play expansive football we get caught on the counter as we're too open, as Klopp said the biggest mistake we made was to try & equalise.

I certainly have a criticism from yesterday, putting on Ward & Madine, whilst taking off the supply of Murphy was criminal.

Too accuse Warnock of not trying is a strange comment.

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You answered your own question. He could have switched formation, moved players around, come up with a few areas to exploit, abandoned long throws, given Murphy a bit of support, given Camarasa a bit more freedom, tried to retain posession a bit more etc. but what did he do? Put on Madine and Ward and took off Murphy for Hoilett.

Does that seem like trying to you? What would you expect from that?

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Originally Posted by jamieccfc

Don't know why we didn't go for Dwight Gayle, I wouldn't really want Warnock sacked but I don't think we have any chance of staying up with him in charge

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Did we ever have a chance with him ?
He was part of the Rondon deal.

He could have done a job, but I don’t think he was ever a viable option.

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Originally Posted by Penarth Blues

I think that is a complete load of bollocks to be honest. We've been competitive in a lot of our games but haven't had the quality of player to finish the job off. I'd argue that our tactics have been good enough to have got us a lot more points but we've struggled to adapt to the Prem with the players available to NW. He knows that but has gambled on team spirit being more important than players who might upset that, as well as having to make do with a very restricted budget it appears.

Against Fulham we were the better side and deservedly won. The same could be said for Newcastle and Burnley where we should have won. Arsenal we should have had at least a point. That would have put us on 11 points and looking a lot more secure.

I think a few of our fans have very short memories and are instead happy to parrot the lazy journalism about NW not being good enough

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That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but I disagree, I don't think we deserved to beat Newcastle because we simply didn't create enough and they had the better chances during that game, Burnley we could've won but was taught a harsh lesson and arsenal we could've picked up a valuable point if Warnock had changed the formation imo but like most weeks he just doesn't seem to have another idea if it's not all going to plan, football at least at the higher level hasout grown managers like Warnock and Jose just my opinion though

Honestly think we need to spread the net..

Any of these an option ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...ie/top-scorers

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Originally Posted by jamieccfc

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but I disagree, I don't think we deserved to beat Newcastle because we simply didn't create enough and they had the better chances during that game, Burnley we could've won but was taught a harsh lesson and arsenal we could've picked up a valuable point if Warnock had changed the formation imo but like most weeks he just doesn't seem to have another idea if it's not all going to plan, football at least at the higher level hasout grown managers like Warnock and Jose just my opinion though

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Does that include Chris Houghton ?
He’s one of the success stories this year , like Dyche was last year .


Then there’s 2 of the more ‘dynamic’ new breed, Johanovic and Wagner. Both of whom are doing worse than us.

Who would come to us and do better than Warnock has, with the resources he’s had ?

Of course it’s just opinion , but I’m struggling to see the logic

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Honestly think we need to spread the net..

Any of these an option ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...ie/top-scorers

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Who would leave PSV or Ajax for City? Khayati failed at Burton & QPR, Peterson maybe but he never got out of Liverpools academy, Sol was mentioned in despatches in the summer, he scores 1 in 2, Van Persie yes please :)

I think this is fairly typical, maybe someone from France as they're on much lower wages and taxed to a ridiculous level

Jankovic had already proven with Watford he's not cut out for this league Wagner is a similar mould of Warnock and is proven that last season was more luck than anything they was actually fortunate in getting promoted with a negative goal difference dyche is probably the exception with his team based on a good goalkeeper and back four but with a little bit of class with defore and as for Houghton I thought he was unfortunate to lose his job with Newcastle and was in a good set up with spurs for much of his coaching career although I didn't watch a great deal of Brighton but when I have they haven't been aimlessly lumping the ball up the field to a big man

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Originally Posted by jamieccfc

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but I disagree, I don't think we deserved to beat Newcastle because we simply didn't create enough and they had the better chances during that game, Burnley we could've won but was taught a harsh lesson and arsenal we could've picked up a valuable point if Warnock had changed the formation imo but like most weeks he just doesn't seem to have another idea if it's not all going to plan, football at least at the higher level hasout grown managers like Warnock and Jose just my opinion though

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And I agree with your opinion, we didn't deserve to beat Newcastle, Got done by Burnley when they were there for the taking and should've got a point against an Arsenal side that had the worst defence I've seen down here, apart from Fulham. I think that people's expectation levels should rise ever so slightly, we are not completely shit, we didn't go up by accident, it's impossible over 46 games.

i have said it in the past

we need to spend some money, shit or bust, lets go for it, this going down without a fight is not nice to watch, lets get into them

What about Carlos Vela loan from LAFC, VT owns them, their season is at an end.

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Originally Posted by Freitag 4.17

What about Carlos Vela loan from LAFC, VT owns them, their season is at an end.

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Yes to Vela problem is MLS restarts in March.

VT is a minority owner (one of 30) at LA so I doubt he has enough influence

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Any signings in January need to be for the long term.

We are going down.

Simply not good enough all over the park.

Love to be suprised and proved wrong.

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This is very true. Our defence is consistently in disarray so what do we do there .
Our midfield (apart from Camarasa) is championship level.
I think January is too late, we got promoted with a very weak style of play which is outdated in the Premiership.
We pretty much kept a championship squad so the potential to change will take time.
We need around 6 new players and a manager who is not interested in consistently pumping long balls into the box for a defender to challenge for.

Let's be honest if a team can nullify Murphy and Paterson we'll likely lose 10/10

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Why is it irrelevant? My point is if clubs have named a player in their 25 at the start of the season, very few will part with a member of their squad in January, unless as you put it they get an upgrade. Austin is an example, hardly getting any time at Southampton but they're in the relegation fight with us, so why sell to a rival, unless it's for over the market odds.

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It’s irrelevant because every single player is available in January. It’s the only time other than the off season when that is the case

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Originally Posted by Penarth Blues

I think that is a complete load of bollocks to be honest. We've been competitive in a lot of our games but haven't had the quality of player to finish the job off. I'd argue that our tactics have been good enough to have got us a lot more points but we've struggled to adapt to the Prem with the players available to NW. He knows that but has gambled on team spirit being more important than players who might upset that, as well as having to make do with a very restricted budget it appears.

Against Fulham we were the better side and deservedly won. The same could be said for Newcastle and Burnley where we should have won. Arsenal we should have had at least a point. That would have put us on 11 points and looking a lot more secure.

I think a few of our fans have very short memories and are instead happy to parrot the lazy journalism about NW not being good enough

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Tend to agree. I think there are 6 or maybe more teams in the PL who would struggle to get promoted out of the Championship this season (us included). We just have to finish above 3 of them

Tactics and attitude have been acceptable.

Not getting a striker in August was the biggest failing.

Flapping round for a striker in January feels like closing the door after the horse has bolted.