I see Stoke had another disappointing home defeat today.
Would new manager Nathan Jones accept an offer for Joe ?
Would he want to come ?
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I see Stoke had another disappointing home defeat today.
Would new manager Nathan Jones accept an offer for Joe ?
Would he want to come ?
I can't believe anybody thinks that Joe Allen would come to play for Cardiff :facepalm:
Of course he would. He is a professional footballer.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
It would be great if he did but I suspect that if Warnock wanted him then he’d already be here.
I’m surprised that he isn’t playing in the Premier League somewhere.
He's a professional footballer from Carmarthen who was affiliated with Swansea from the age of 9 to 22. I'd love to be wrong but there's just no way he'd come here, he'd be hated back westQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
I've posted on here in the past complaining about the vile song some of our fans used to chant about Allen and his father.
Does anyone think he's not aware of that song?
Does anyone think he wasn't offended by that song?
I would love to see him come to us because he's a great player.
But .....
Chickens and roost come to mind.
He's a professional footballer. If the money was right, I'm sure he'd jump at the chance of playing with any team in the EPL.
He told me he wants it or was that Keith Allan , bloody sherry ?
Of course he would.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
I think that we’ll have to disagree on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
There are plenty examples of players crossing genuinely significant footballing divides (some even based on religion!) as opposed to a parochial one that some of our fans seem to think exists between us and Swansea.
He’d sign in heartbeat if the money was right.
Would be completely out of place playing for us.
Half of his passes are back to the centre halfs. If they are ‘footballing ‘ centre half’s then that’s fine, but to Morrison and Bamba, that’s asking for trouble.
Better suited cheaper players out there, they just aren’t Welsh.
AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
It's not happing lets move on before , before it comes a type of Pulis for manager thingy.
He doesn’t play that way for Wales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
I think you’re stereotyping him from his Swansea days.
He’s got more strings to his bow than someone who just passes the ball 5 yards sideways or backwards.
We could certainly do with a player in the middle who can bring others into play. The wingers and Camarasa could certainly do with a Joe Allen alongside them. The amount of times we needlessly give possession away is ridiculous for the level we are playing at. Especially when Joe Ralls is in the team.
I’ve seen virtually every Wales game he’s played in and he constantly cycles the ball through the back 4. I bet if you did a heat map then Williams would be the one he’s passed to most.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
Certainly seen him more times for Wales than I did for Swansea as I rarely watched them.
It’s his game and it works with the right players.
Anyone who thinks he’d fit into a Warnock team must have a screw loose.
Besides which, he’s not really setting Stoke alight at the moment.
Much better chance he will return to the Jacks in my opinion
So what players fit into a Warnock system then? Are we ruling out anyone who can pass and control a football?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
He might not be setting the world alight at Stoke but, newsflash, Warnock and Cardiff City are not setting the world alight either.
The Warnock Way certainly isn’t working in this division and maybe a slight tweak in his usual tactics or formation, and a player or two who give a different dimension to his usual style is what is required.
I’m not suggesting we start passing the ball around the back 4 but this notion we can’t sign anyone who can pass because Warnock doesn’t play that way is nonsensical and hamstringing us.
Warnock needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Going long and hitting the centre forward from anywhere on the pitch and working off the second ball, and more often than not conceding possession, just doesn’t cut it at this level anymore.
Not someone with no physical presence who is struggling in the Championship. TBH I’m fed up of seeng him mentioned all the time because we all see him doing well for Wales.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
A tweak fine, Camerasa is a start towards that, but a complete change of system no.
You honestly think Joe wouldn’t improve our side? No physical presence? You’re stuck in the 80s and your park football sorry to sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
To be fair, so is our management team :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieccfc
I love Joe and I think he’s a great player but don’t think he has the legs to flourish in this system
Players don’t need to run around like headless chickens when they have a good positional senseQuote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
Allen is a vital link between defence and midfield for Wales - something Cardiff need badly, he doesn't just recycle the ballQuote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
And you are in dreamland.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieccfc
I’ve explained why I think it wouldn’t work.
You and a few others just think we can magically switch to playing a different way. Without major changes we can’t. Just bringing in one player who can keep the ball, and even then one who’s personally having a bad time isn’t going to sort that.
Probably half the teams in the Championship would beat us trying to play that way.
It’s far too late in the day for this, if it was the summer and we had time to bring in 4/5 then it would be a gamble , now it would just be suicide
You are right when we have the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieccfc
We have the ball 30-35% of the match generally. I feel we need legs or ‘people that can run round like headless chickens if needs be’
Most of the players who Warnock would like who I know of are out of our range.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
Which is why we are looking abroad at players who I know very little of.
As for the system not working, we are 20 places higher than when Warnock came in, after 2 seasons, - it’s worked.
If we’d continued trying to play the short passing style we’d be in league 1 now.
We are still higher in the league than was predicted in the summer, so to say it’s not working isn’t right. 2 sides below us who are ‘footballing’ teams - with better players than us.
Joe Allen isn’t a ‘tweak’ he’s a player who is used to a completely different style to what we play.
He’s got players around him in Clucas and Woods who are used to that system and thenWilliams in defender, who he’s played with hundreds of times.
If he can’t make it work there then he won’t here.
You really think he’d see the ball again after playing short balls to Artur, Morrison,Patterson, Peltier, Gunnar, Bamba etc..
Or are you thinking of giving up this season and building a different system for the next year or 2.
Also he’s 29 in a few weeks, if you are going to do that then you’d be better off going for someone younger.
It just doesn’t make sense to me .
He’s a great player for Wales, one of our most consistent and has actually had a decent run at Stoke recently, but sorry to say he’d be lost here.
I’d love to back a sensible option to improve us, but can’t see this working. I doubt he be cheap either.
Not that any of this would have the slightest effect on your entrenched opinion that we need to play on the floor at all costs.
Spot on. I wonder what team some of our posters are watching . We are hard working at best with two maybe three decent footballers . To change our style would be suicide . Does anyone else remember what happened when the the football genius Ollie was set free to manage our hard working side the last time we were in the premier league ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
That’s why when NW does retire, choosing a replacement will be tricky. You can’t suddenly put a ‘Pep’ style Manager in charge, it has to be a pragmatic appointment with someone who is just a degree different, not a polar opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
Sadly, I agree with you. We are too far down the "Warnock Way" for any change of style to work if it was to be incorporated during a season and I'm not even sure a summer influx of four or five more technical players in an attempt to introduce a more considered, passing approach would work when you consider that, apart from well under a year with Ole and Trollope in charge, every manager we've had since the summer of 2011 has, to a degree, favoured the same method of playing the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
In truth, I struggle to come up with many Cardiff sides down the years that played the game "the right way" - power, physique and aerial strength have nearly always been characteristics of City teams in the time I've been watching them.
He’s probably on good money at Stoke still too, prob more than most of our team
I’m not expecting us to sign Allen and suddenly start playing like Barcelona ffs, Is Ralls better than Allen in any department? The greatest player that has ever lived is 5 foot 7, we need players with a bit of composure
I think Joe Allen is massively overrated by Welsh fans.
However whatever system we play to suggest he doesnt improve us is crazy.
He has a composure on the ball we are lacking.
Its irrelevant anyway. He wont come and we cant afford him.
I think this would have saved 2 pagesQuote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Ralls isn’t even in the side at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieccfc
Are you going to buy him and put him on the bench ?
And how much do you think he’ll cost us in wages and fees ? Stoke aren’t going to GIVE him to us.
Better off getting someone who will fit in with our system. Warnock wants a defensive midfielder to take the pressure off Gunnarsson. Can’t see JA doing the running and hassling that Gunnar does. He’ll just get brushed off.
It’s a non starter in so many ways.
It’s an indicator that no one else from the Prem has signed him either.
I used Ralls as a simple comparison he’s better than all our midfielders and no he wouldn’t just run around like gunners because he’s more intelligent than that but obviously we just want players who can run around and put 100% in :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
Sorry but where in my posts did I say we have to completely change our style of play and play football on the deck at all costs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
By tweak I am asking for someone in the middle who can actually pass the football, wether that be Joe Allen, or someone else, to our wingers, or to a Camarasa or Reid in the hole, on the half turn. Is that really too much to ask of professional footballers on tens of thousands a week? Wether they are Premier League players in name only Championship standard players should be expected to do that.
We play with wingers but can’t even get them the ball. What damage is a winger going to do without the ball? Or more often than not receiving it near the half way line?
Your apathy to professional footballers being asked to do something quite basic is astounding. You swear we are a non league side dropped into the Premier League and asked to compete.
I also said the Warnock Way is not working AT THIS LEVEL so I don’t know why you are twisting that. Yes we’ve raised 20 places since he’s been here, no ones saying he hasn’t done a fantastic job all in all, but if we’re not careful a lot of that good work will be undone.
We could be back in the Championship come August, with a squad not much better than the one that ability wise probably over achieved to get up, and we’ve spent 50m on it. In fact worse because as it stands Joe Ralls will be the only central midfielder at the club. At the very least the aim this year was if relegated was to go down with a much better squad than the one which got promoted. Can we honestly say that will be the case if nothing changes between now and the end of the season?
And I stand by if we continue as we are then the Warnock Way does not work at this level. We have played all our home games against the bottom 8 except for Palace. Weve just been battered by one of our relegation rivals, and battered in all but scoreline by the team who are bottom of the league.
Something clearly needs to change or in my opinion we won’t get close to staying up, or even get to 30 points carrying on the way we are.
This was the point of my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
The Sala incident is absolutely gut wrenching but it seems that the same squad will carry on playing the same way.
For me that is nailed on relegation so we have to consider the future (I am sorry but championship football)
We need to introduce one or two players who have better football brains and a degree of comfort on the ball.
This is why I raised the question of Joe Allen.
Is he the answer ? Maybe not but surely the type of player we should be considering.
Murphy is potentially our most dangerous forwards but does not make the starting eleven as his defending is suspect.
If that is our thought process then we have no chance