Labour and the accusations of anti-semitism

I am no Labour supporter and no supporter of Corbyn but in the interests of fairness I would like to be educated on the subject to a greater degree. Can we list clear cases of anti-semitism from him or within his party without conflating them with criticism of Israel or of support of the Palestinian cause (and I know that sharing a platform with certain parties can be interpreted in different ways, of course).

This a neutral post and in the interests of my erudition I am simply trying to establish facts regarding this subject.

And if we can avoid descending into the usual Punch and Judy act and people hurling personal epithets at each other that would be marvellous......

From what I’ve read, it’s mostly gone on behind the scenes.

It is my understanding that a group of journalists loosely associated with government sponsored agencies have been given the task of smearing Corbyn in the media. I do believe a question on this subject was tabled in parliament, but you probably won't have heard about it as the press don't tend to write about themselves and their agendas.

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Originally Posted by Duggie

From what I’ve read, it’s mostly gone on behind the scenes.

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A party of 600,000 members has just been referred to as institutionally anti-Semitic. One would like to think the public require a bit more evidence than that to accept the charge.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I am no Labour supporter and no supporter of Corbyn but in the interests of fairness I would like to be educated on the subject to a greater degree. Can we list clear cases of anti-semitism from him or within his party without conflating them with criticism of Israel or of support of the Palestinian cause (and I know that sharing a platform with certain parties can be interpreted in different ways, of course).

This a neutral post and in the interests of my erudition I am simply trying to establish facts regarding this subject.

And if we can avoid descending into the usual Punch and Judy act and people hurling personal epithets at each other that would be marvellous......

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It's a good question, one you will probably not get much of answer to.

There are definite clear cases of antisemitism from members and the odd councillor. Mostly online.

A lot of the charge sheet appears to similar to the following link: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rks-miko-peled

I will let you make your own mind up.

Labour just like most groups are not anti Semitic per se.

This is what I want to know. Labour has always had strong anti-racist credentials and has not made exceptions for any group of people. Of course, there has always been a strong pro-Palestinian wing of the party but it would be wrong to conflate this with anti-semtism. The left, including the Labour Party, has always had a strong Jewish contingency and the party elected a Jew as leader only several years ago, so it's hardly institutionally anti-semitic.

It's ironic that the Independent Group, who have tried to focus on Labour's anti-semitism, manage to make a racist gaffe on their first day of launching.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

It's a good question, one you will probably not get much of answer to.

There are definite clear cases of antisemitism from members and the odd councillor. Mostly online.

A lot of the charge sheet appears to similar to the following link: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rks-miko-peled

I will let you make your own mind up.

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So an Israeli-American Jew suggests that we should have the freedom of speech to discuss everything and that makes the Labour Party anti-semitic?

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Originally Posted by Helen Wiggy

So an Israeli-American Jew suggests that we should have the freedom of speech to discuss everything and that makes the Labour Party anti-semitic?

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You are preaching to the converted. I have been lumped in with those who are genuinely anti-Semitic by certain people on here for going through a list prepared by the BBC and dissecting it. The BBC list had 10 incidents and 4 or 5 of them were nonsense like this one.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

You are preaching to the converted. I have been lumped in with those who are genuinely anti-Semitic by certain people on here for going through a list prepared by the BBC and dissecting it. The BBC list had 10 incidents and 4 or 5 of them were nonsense like this one.

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It seems to be that Corbyn's opponents can't get anything on him as he does seem to be squeaky clean, so they're trying to invent some ridiculous allegations against him which are patently untrue. I think Corbyn has been forced into a corner to keep saying that there is a serious problem with anti-semitism in his party because if he said there wasn't, his opponents would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

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Originally Posted by Helen Wiggy

This is what I want to know. Labour has always had strong anti-racist credentials and has not made exceptions for any group of people. Of course, there has always been a strong pro-Palestinian wing of the party but it would be wrong to conflate this with anti-semtism. The left, including the Labour Party, has always had a strong Jewish contingency and the party elected a Jew as leader only several years ago, so it's hardly institutionally anti-semitic.

It's ironic that the Independent Group, who have tried to focus on Labour's anti-semitism, manage to make a racist gaffe on their first day of launching.

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I explained it in the post above. There is an organised campaign to smear Corbyn, as he is not part of the establishment. This has all been evident since day one. He's like a left-wing version of the far-right racist and nazi sympathiser Donald Trump.

Perhaps it's all made up and Labour MP's who have spoken our are lying and no investigations have gone on dispute actual high profile admitting to a problem ,Labour says it has looked into 673 cases of alleged antisemitism,

Everything below are reports from interviews /statements from actual, Labour people.

You either enjoy the denial or embrace and fix the issue ::



Luciana Berger quit , is she lying about receiving anto semitism social media insults.

Tom Watson, claimed she was the victim of anti-Semitic "bullying" - something the local party leadership denied.

Just 12 out of hundreds of cases of Labour antisemitism led to the member being expelled , Labour General Secretary Jennie Formby has revealed as she said she had “seen hard evidence” of antisemitism in the Party under her watch.

In an email sent to all Labour MPs ahead of a meeting , Jenny Formby has had “private meetings with individuals from several Jewish community organisations” to explore how to implement the Party’s code of conduct on antisemitism – including the adoption of the IHRA definition of Jew-hate with all ts examples.

Of those who were party members

96 members were immediately suspended
146 received a reminder of conduct**
220 cases did not have sufficient evidence of a breach of party rules to proceed with an investigation
211 were issued with a Notice of Investigation.

The veteran Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge has defended her decision to call Jeremy Corbyn a “racist and antisemite” despite facing disciplinary action and has instructed her lawyers to challenge the decision.

Ian Austin, an adopted child of Jewish refugees, refers to his own treatment when he was told he was being investigated after criticising the party’s new code on antisemitism. He also condemns the treatment of Luciana Berger, who he says has been “bullied” out of the party and that of Margaret Hodge, who also spoke out about antisemitism.

He says:

The hard truth is that the party is tougher on the people complaining about anti-Semitism than it is on the anti-Semites.

'Labour too slow on antisemitism' - McDonnell
The shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, has said Labour have been too slow to act on antisemitism.

The nine MPs who have quit the party this week have, to varying degrees, cited the party’s handling of the antisemitism vow as one of the reasons for doing so.

In an interview with the Evening Standard published today, McDonnell said:

We’ve got to be quicker, and we’ve got to be fiercer. I think there’s been a lot of listening but not enough action. That’s the problem.

I have no doubt there is an anti JC programme , however I'm sure there is any anti centralist antisemitism programme going on as well .

There's way too much smoke to suggest there isn't a problem .

To make this go way Labour could change its leader, keep its likable core values , distance itself from the more radical elements of it's membership,recommend a second referendum, bingo.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Perhaps it's all made up and Labour MP's who have spoken our are lying and no investigations have gone on dispute actual high profile admitting to a problem ,Labour says it has looked into 673 cases of alleged antisemitism,

Everything below are reports from interviews /statements from actual, Labour people.

You either enjoy the denial or embrace and fix the issue ::



Luciana Berger quit , is she lying about receiving anto semitism social media insults.

Tom Watson, claimed she was the victim of anti-Semitic "bullying" - something the local party leadership denied.

Just 12 out of hundreds of cases of Labour antisemitism led to the member being expelled , Labour General Secretary Jennie Formby has revealed as she said she had “seen hard evidence” of antisemitism in the Party under her watch.

In an email sent to all Labour MPs ahead of a meeting , Jenny Formby has had “private meetings with individuals from several Jewish community organisations” to explore how to implement the Party’s code of conduct on antisemitism – including the adoption of the IHRA definition of Jew-hate with all ts examples.

Of those who were party members

96 members were immediately suspended
146 received a reminder of conduct**
220 cases did not have sufficient evidence of a breach of party rules to proceed with an investigation
211 were issued with a Notice of Investigation.

The veteran Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge has defended her decision to call Jeremy Corbyn a “racist and antisemite” despite facing disciplinary action and has instructed her lawyers to challenge the decision.

Ian Austin, an adopted child of Jewish refugees, refers to his own treatment when he was told he was being investigated after criticising the party’s new code on antisemitism. He also condemns the treatment of Luciana Berger, who he says has been “bullied” out of the party and that of Margaret Hodge, who also spoke out about antisemitism.

He says:

The hard truth is that the party is tougher on the people complaining about anti-Semitism than it is on the anti-Semites.

'Labour too slow on antisemitism' - McDonnell
The shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, has said Labour have been too slow to act on antisemitism.

The nine MPs who have quit the party this week have, to varying degrees, cited the party’s handling of the antisemitism vow as one of the reasons for doing so.

In an interview with the Evening Standard published today, McDonnell said:

We’ve got to be quicker, and we’ve got to be fiercer. I think there’s been a lot of listening but not enough action. That’s the problem.

I have no doubt there is an anti JC programme , however I'm sure there is any anti centralist antisemitism programme going on as well .

There's way too much smoke to suggest there isn't a problem .

To make this go way Labour could change its leader, keep its likable core values , distance itself from the more radical elements of it's membership,recommend a second referendum, bingo.

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I think the OP was looking for identifiable cases.

However

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To make this go way Labour could change its leader, keep its likable core values , distance itself from the more radical elements of it's membership,recommend a second referendum, bingo

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This is roughly what I think will happen, Labour will eventually end up with a leader more sympathetic to the establishment view and then, overnight, antisemitism in a party described as 'institutionally antisemitic' will conveniently vanish. A week later no one will even remember any of this happened.

I’m not sure about the anti Semitic stuff but labour need a radical change starting with kicking the incompetent Corbyn as far in to touch as possible same could probably be said for all the the party’s mind, British politics are in a complete mess and I’m not even sure any of the parties have a true value anymore

It does appear old Jezzer isn't tugging his forelock to someone or some group behind the scenes and is being punished.

Semite relates to a group of languages. All those who speak Arabic are Semites. Those who know that must wonder why alleged acts of anti-Semitism only ever relate to a different and much smaller group of other Semites.

No smoke no fire :
Just Google police investigation into anti semitism.

Number of cases of anti semitism labour party

Google good Labour MP 's views who accept it's an issue ,like , John McDonnell, Tom Watson ,Jess Phillip's, Sadiq Khan, Ian Austin, there are countless quotes, not just media spin .

You can judge this n a number of ways :

It was always there but suppressed.

It has gained traction from its new membership.

The current party has been highjacked .

Or It's a right wing conspiracy and all these incidents ,investigations ,resignations, actual labour MP quotes , admitting the problem exists are all lying .

Or it's a chip on the old political shoulder where folk would rather be in denial, than admit there is an actual issue, within the party . A party that I and many others have supported the party for decades, fighting the Tories policies.

Or is Labour wants to be damaged beyond repair, to finally
remove those MP's or people they dislike who have a different view,
that differs from others , are we seeing the death if the so called "inclusive broad church political party " .

I hope not as it's very upsetting, this could result in some Labour voters being lost by sitting on thier hands and good meaning doners ,celebrities, other than unions also leaving.

The other option to perhaps consider is Anti Semetism a convenient , side issue that deflects from discussing real issues and other disputes , as there aren't many voters to be had amongst the Jewish population, so why deal with it , would really attacking the issue cost votes ? as we see a society that has anti semetism embeded in it, its seen from dreadful trolling , grave damaged , jail sentences, even in these time .

Very sad indeed.

Perception has always been big in politics and, at this fractious time, it seems moreso now than it's ever been. People can go on about conspiracies and "establishment" plots as much as they like, but I feel there is an overwhelming perception that Labour has a serious problem when in comes to anti semitism. I also believe that this perception is well founded, but whether it is or it isn't is secondary really to the feeling abroad that they party does have one. Just as with Brexit, I would argue that the attitude of the man at the top of the party does nothing to dispel the notion of sitting back while Rome burns on Jeremy Corbyn's part - he may or may not be a target for the so called establishment, but he's also not a very good party leader.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

No smoke no fire :
Just Google police investigation into anti semitism.

Number of cases of anti semitism labour party

Google good Labour MP 's views who accept it's an issue ,like , John McDonnell, Tom Watson ,Jess Phillip's, Sadiq Khan, Ian Austin, there are countless quotes, not just media spin .

You can judge this n a number of ways :

It was always there but suppressed.

It has gained traction from its new membership.

The current party has been highjacked .

Or It's a right wing conspiracy and all these incidents ,investigations ,resignations, actual labour MP quotes , admitting the problem exists are all lying .

Or it's a chip on the old political shoulder where folk would rather be in denial, than admit there is an actual issue, within the party . A party that I and many others have supported the party for decades, fighting the Tories policies.

Or is Labour wants to be damaged beyond repair, to finally
remove those MP's or people they dislike who have a different view,
that differs from others , are we seeing the death if the so called "inclusive broad church political party " .

I hope not as it's very upsetting, this could result in some Labour voters being lost by sitting on thier hands and good meaning doners ,celebrities, other than unions also leaving.

The other option to perhaps consider is Anti Semetism a convenient , side issue that deflects from discussing real issues and other disputes , as there aren't many voters to be had amongst the Jewish population, so why deal with it , would really attacking the issue cost votes ? as we see a society that has anti semetism embeded in it, its seen from dreadful trolling , grave damaged , jail sentences, even in these time .

Very sad indeed.

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I just did this but it doesn't bring any identifiable cases just an article about the met opening an investigation. Has anyone been prosecuted as a result of this investigation? Should you be banned from a political party for saying something offensive that isn't illegal, how far do we take this?

I don't like to base what I think on quotes by other people, I like to look at what has happened. A number of people who associate themselves with the Labour party have said bad things on twitter - that much is provable. If political parties gain a taste for banning everyone who says something offensive online then none of them will have any members left. In addition to this I can well believe that certain local Labour party meetings are unbalanced in their fixation on Israel (I have heard this first hand) and that this would make it is a pretty uncomfortable place for a Jewish person to put forward their views. Having said that, the chair of Momentum is Jewish and seems to find that organisation a pretty decent place to put forward his views.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Perception has always been big in politics and, at this fractious time, it seems moreso now than it's ever been. People can go on about conspiracies and "establishment" plots as much as they like, but I feel there is an overwhelming perception that Labour has a serious problem when in comes to anti semitism. I also believe that this perception is well founded, but whether it is or it isn't is secondary really to the feeling abroad that they party does have one. Just as with Brexit, I would argue that the attitude of the man at the top of the party does nothing to dispel the notion of sitting back while Rome burns on Jeremy Corbyn's part - he may or may not be a target for the so called establishment, but he's also not a very good party leader.

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Earlier this week I had the telly on but wasn't watching; it was providing some background noise. The programme was about British aviator Amy Johnson who in 1930 flew solo from Britain to Australia which was considered a huge achievement. What caught my attention was the narrator's claim - which I haven't checked - that 12 well wishers waved her off when embarking and 100,000 greeted her return and another million lined the streets for her motorcade.

For argument's sake let's presume those numbers are facts. Radio was in its infancy and most people learnt news from the written word, mostly from reading newspapers. It would demonstrate the enormous reach the mainstream media had. Of course, thanks to the advent of the box found in most living rooms its reach has long been omnipotent. Those who own or control those outlets manage their readers and viewers perceptions.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I just did this but it doesn't bring any identifiable cases just an article about the met opening an investigation. Has anyone been prosecuted as a result of this investigation? Should you be banned from a political party for saying something offensive that isn't illegal, how far do we take this?

I don't like to base what I think on quotes by other people, I like to look at what has happened. A number of people who associate themselves with the Labour party have said bad things on twitter - that much is provable. If political parties gain a taste for banning everyone who says something offensive online then none of them will have any members left. In addition to this I can well believe that certain local Labour party meetings are unbalanced in their fixation on Israel (I have heard this first hand) and that this would make it is a pretty uncomfortable place for a Jewish person to put forward their views. Having said that, the chair of Momentum is Jewish and seems to find that organisation a pretty decent place to put forward his views.

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The chair of Luciana Berger's local constituency party in Liverpool is Jewish and she was elected as the MP there three times in a row. So hardly a case of antisemitism against her. They wanted her out for her disloyalty to the leadership of the Labour Party. It's hardly surprising as she is the ex-girlfriend of Tony Blair's son, Euan Blair and was parachuted into the seat by his father. Luciana first started to complain about aniti-semitism way back when she was a university student, ever since then she has learned to weaponise it for political purposes.

Anti-Semitism calls about Labour have nothing to do with Jeremy Corbyn, as they first started the day after the former Labour Leader, Ed Miliband declared that he was all in favour of a Palestinian State and Palestinian Statehood. Corbyn had been calling for a Palestinian State for years before that and nobody took any notice of him. But the thought of having a real lefty running the Labour Party has sent the right wing and the media into a complete meltdown, hence the weaponisation of AS.

Following a year of investigations 18 people have been excluded from the Labour Party, from a total membership (including the Trade Unions) of 750,000. So some 99.99% of the total membership are not anti-Semitic unless you start to count support for a Palestinian State or criticism of apartheid and oppression as somehow being anti-Semitic.

Of the 1,200 complaints that were received some 252 came from one MP alone, Margaret Hodge. Her complaints were found to consist of 90% against individuals who had no connection at all with the Labour Party, who were not members and had never been members of the Labour Party.

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Originally Posted by Splott Dai

The chair of Luciana Berger's local constituency party in Liverpool is Jewish and she was elected as the MP there three times in a row. So hardly a case of antisemitism against her. They wanted her out for her disloyalty to the leadership of the Labour Party. It's hardly surprising as she is the ex-girlfriend of Tony Blair's son, Euan Blair and was parachuted into the seat by his father. Luciana first started to complain about aniti-semitism way back when she was a university student, ever since then she has learned to weaponise it for political purposes.

Anti-Semitism calls about Labour have nothing to do with Jeremy Corbyn, as they first started the day after the former Labour Leader, Ed Miliband declared that he was all in favour of a Palestinian State and Palestinian Statehood. Corbyn had been calling for a Palestinian State for years before that and nobody took any notice of him. But the thought of having a real lefty running the Labour Party has sent the right wing and the media into a complete meltdown, hence the weaponisation of AS.

Following a year of investigations 18 people have been excluded from the Labour Party, from a total membership (including the Trade Unions) of 750,000. So some 99.99% of the total membership are not anti-Semitic unless you start to count support for a Palestinian State or criticism of apartheid and oppression as somehow being anti-Semitic.

Of the 1,200 complaints that were received some 252 came from one MP alone, Margaret Hodge. Her complaints were found to consist of 90% against individuals who had no connection at all with the Labour Party, who were not members and had never been members of the Labour Party.

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Good post. An excellent summary of the whole situation.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I just did this but it doesn't bring any identifiable cases just an article about the met opening an investigation. Has anyone been prosecuted as a result of this investigation? Should you be banned from a political party for saying something offensive that isn't illegal, how far do we take this?

I don't like to base what I think on quotes by other people, I like to look at what has happened. A number of people who associate themselves with the Labour party have said bad things on twitter - that much is provable. If political parties gain a taste for banning everyone who says something offensive online then none of them will have any members left. In addition to this I can well believe that certain local Labour party meetings are unbalanced in their fixation on Israel (I have heard this first hand) and that this would make it is a pretty uncomfortable place for a Jewish person to put forward their views. Having said that, the chair of Momentum is Jewish and seems to find that organisation a pretty decent place to put forward his views.

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Its ongoing ,not likely to declare anything in detail ,what we do know is the police have opened an investigation , and too date no one has closed it .

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Originally Posted by Helen Wiggy

Good post. An excellent summary of the whole situation.

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Its Blairs fault dear me this wears thin . Someone actually wished harm on her unborn baby (really ? )

Most believe JC isn't the reason for anti semitism , its deemed he's been accused not effectively dealt with it as its damaging the party.

There is a belief not every report has been investigated and they have now been forced to do so , that greatly effects the percentages.

If 252 complaints came from one person who was employed by you , would you not eradicate the reasons for her reasons to question her party .

Denial is dreadful .

Was the person who wished harm on her unborn baby a member of the Labour party , an anti Semite or most probably just a psychopath?

still a myth news

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47393626

Labour MP Chris Williamson suspended in anti-Semitism row , two years in coming , of course its Blair and right wing press fault I hear coming ,had to exposed and then suspended ,this chap is closeness to the leader , I guess has effected the slowness of action .

Today's PM's forced this one out sadly ,why give Tories a weapon ??

Deputy Leader says :

Chris Williamson has produced a long-winded and heavily caveated apology. It is not good enough. If it was in my gift I would have removed the whip from him already.

I'm sure it's all made up but hey worth a read I guess for just another view .

Labour doesn’t have zero tolerance of antisemitism if Chris Williamson is an MP

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y_to_clipboard

Labour defends antisemitism response after documents leak

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Labour defends antisemitism response after documents leak

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

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Reasons why I should continue to vote Labour are getting much thinner on the ground.

I can see me voting Green if the EU elections go ahead.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Reasons why I should continue to vote Labour are getting much thinner on the ground.

I can see me voting Green if the EU elections go ahead.

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Perhaps the Greens will not stand and tell their supporters to back the Plaid Cymru candidate again [they have done that in the past].

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Reasons why I should continue to vote Labour are getting much thinner on the ground.

I can see me voting Green if the EU elections go ahead.

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I've always voted ,and now find myself sadly completely lost in this political void .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

I've always voted ,and now find myself sadly completely lost in this political void .

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European elections - we have to vote for a pro-European party surely. And, that is neither Labour nor Tory.

Green, yes
Plaid, yes
Lib Dems Yes

Others, no.