This allegation has been around for a while, but this story has a ring of truth to it for me - this is getting very messy and I can't help feeling there is still quite a bit more to come.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47749265
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This allegation has been around for a while, but this story has a ring of truth to it for me - this is getting very messy and I can't help feeling there is still quite a bit more to come.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47749265
Does that mean insurance is void? And mackay organised it?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
What it means is that the pilot took off in full knowledge of the fact that he was not qualified to pilot the plane.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Even I had a night rating when I had my PPL.
So he flew into awful weather when he should never have been in the air. Poor Emiliano ... what a waste of a young life.
What insurance? Has it been confirmed there was any?Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Probably, yes, and yes. I suppose it's a bit like letting an uninsured individual drive your car who then writes it off. No insurance co. will pay out on that..Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
That BBC graph illustrates how terrifying their last minutes were.
It is all so sad.
Guess it depends if the Premier League had accepted the contract. If they hadQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
And also whether he is considered a Cardiff City player, in which case he’d be covered by City’s policy.
If not then he’d be under Nantes.
This is most probably where the dispute over the contract lies. Who’s insurance is liable.
Not sure it would ever be ‘confirmed ‘ anyway.
Really it’s no one else’s business and I just wish it was all kept between the clubs and their advisors and insurers.
Can’t see what good it does anybody to have this all dragged up week after week in public
Must be very upsetting for the families
Taking all emotion out of it, if the pilot flew without licience then he is liable.
With him gone, then I guess the estate will be sued?
Wasn't it reported earlier that he only took the job because he was skint?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadstool
Was wondering this. Would it be the pilot carrying it out rather than the person who booked or paid the flight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadstool
Or the person who invited or instructed him to take the flight! (Henderson?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
But the only person who could say the flight would take place was the pilot. If he said it was unsafe it wouldn't have happened. It appears that Ibbitson flew the plane knowing full well that he was incompetent to make the journey, so I'd imagine that when everything is considered the basic fault will still lie with him.
Agreed, and if he was acting on instruction from McKay who was representing Sala and Nantes then Ccfc are right to withhold payment until liability is confirmedQuote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
There's nothing new in this article.
Why on earth has BBC Wales decided to allow these two reporters to waste their time with this article.
The timing is appalling too. We've had no game for weeks and yet they release it a day before an important home game to Chelsea.
Why?
Who invalidates the insurance , pilot , passenger , airline owner ,agent , clubs ??Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
I'm guessing this will go to mediation ,you can see why the club have not released any money , it could be considered as admitting liability ?
I wonder if this will come down to FIFA mediation and a new value of the player found , rather than the inflated one that was finally agreed on .
I don't want to speak ill of the dead but flying with a trusting passenger at night when you're not just unqualified to do so but actually prohibited because of your colourblindness is pretty awful
That's why I have had no sympathy for Ibbottson. Yes, he's dead and his body never likely to be found. I feel for his family.
However, he made the choice to fly knowing his limitations. That's his risk to take if he was flying alone. Sadly Sala didn't have that information, otherwise he would have likely said no to flying that night with Ibbottson and he would still be alive and banging in some goals for Cardiff.
When Sala allegedly asked for the flight to be rescheduled to him wanting to say goodbye to his former teammates, this is where the investigation will lie.
Ibbottson may have been fine for the day flight arranged for 9am, but once the flight needed to be rescheduled then those arranging that need to be accountable.
Clearly Cardiff were not involved and presumably neither were Nantes.
That leaves the McKays, Ibbottson and anyone else involved. What documentation did Ibbottson provide to the French airport for him to fly at night without that licence? Was there falsification?
Whatever the findings, I seriously hope that lessons will be learned in aviation circles and the footballing world.
A totally unnecessary waste of a young life.
I can answer the documentation provided to the French authorities question.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDerrida
He might have been required to show his current licence on arrival often this is a random check.
Pilots fly in pay a landing fee and fly out.
The French authorities have no zip zero responsibility here.
The pilot is in charge and files and follows a flight plan.
Only the pilot is in control in private aircraft.
You can take off at your own risk but at best ATC might question the advisability in adverse weather conditions at take off.
It was on national radio 1st thing this morning....Quote:
Originally Posted by JDerrida
A bloke facing multiple ccj’s apparently, won’t have been doing such a dangerous flight for free that’s for sure. He needed the cash and was obviously going to be well paid for it by whoever organised it, be that the slimy agent or the invisible man Henderson. Whatever, in respect of Sala it would be great if they could sort it out not in the media until it’s sorted. Too much to ask in this messed up world we now live in, a country run by clowns.....Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDerrida
I was thinking this....bbc wales run by the egg brigade remember.....club rugby dying on its knees and we get more fans in than all the rugby clubs in South Wales put together....:sherlock:
The bit of the article I find strange is "In their preliminary report, the AAIB said that because Mr Ibbotson's pilot licence and log book had been lost in the crash, it had not yet been able to establish what ratings he held or how many hours he had flown recently - although it was known he had completed approximately 3,700 flying hours."
How does the AAIB know that Ibbotson's pilot licence and log book have been lost in the crash? Who's to say he didn't have them on him or on the aircraft at the time of the crash. Could they possibly be at his home, or elsewhere perhaps?
[QUOTE=Mr Soul '68;4962959]The bit of the article I find strange is "In their preliminary report, the AAIB said that because Mr Ibbotson's pilot licence and log book had been lost in the crash, it had not yet been able to establish what ratings he held or how many hours he had flown recently - although it was known he had completed approximately 3,700 flying hours."
How does the AAIB know that Ibbotson's pilot licence and log book have been lost in the crash? Who's to say he didn't have them on him or on the aircraft at the time of the crash. Could they possibly be at his home, or elsewhere perhaps?[/
I don’t blame the pilot, I blame the person who booked him,
Let’s hope the police do too.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham traveller
Sounds like Ibbotson was desperate for the work although he may have felt obliged to do the job because hadn't he had his accommodation etc paid for by Henderson? Sounds like the bloke was put into a situation that he may have felt was difficult to get out of and decided to chance it, He must have been desperate, stupid or both. As soon as Sala decided to delay the flight it should've stopped. I also find it very odd that the club didn't enforce their preferred travel arrangements on Sala. During contract negotiations there would have been demands and stipulations put in place by both parties, some quite detailed. The Club were prepared to pay 15 million for him yet gave him the option on his travel arrangements and it seems that when he refused the offer of a charter flight there wasn't a great deal of interest in how he was going to get to Cardiff. All of the effort with scouting, negotiations, contracts etc and no stipulation on travel arrangements (or Delivery if you want to be clinical) for a 15 million pound asset. The flight and mode of transport should've been questioned by the club. It would be interesting to find out whether other clubs have some kind of policy involved with travel arrangements for players.
[QUOTE=xsnaggle;4962965]Does the pilot himself fill in the paperwork himself? You’d have thought there’d be a third party involved verifying the entries with copies available in anticipation of accidents like this. If every pilot carried his paperwork on his person on every flight on the rare occasion of a tragedy like this all paperwork would always be lost, that’s mad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68
Club statement: "Cardiff City is shocked to hear the pilot, David Ibbotson, may not have been permitted to fly at night. The club remains deeply concerned that the pilot, and those who arranged the flight, seemingly completely disregarded the rules of flying and put Mr Sala’s life in such danger.
"We believe those who are responsible should be held fully accountable for their actions.
"We reiterate our support for the Air Charter Association's call for more awareness of and better enforcement against illegal flights."
I struggle to understand how it’s so difficult to verify details of the pilots license in these days of technology. The police wouldn’t need a hard copy of my DVLA drivers license to establish if I had points on my license or if I was banned, they’d just consult a database! Surely something like this exists for a pilots license too?
Was a club statement necessary?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bob Banker Spanker
The club is showing poor form if they don't class him as ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower
Happy to parade him about but not pay up.
A bit like today’s result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman
It is out of the clubs hands
It is an insurance matter.
The insurers handle it. Fact.
The insured CCFC have no say in the matter.
If you are properly insured the insurers call ALL the shots.
The club have no say in it and no legal rights to have any say.
That’s how it works whatever anyone thinks.
We feel obliged to pay the club might say.
They will be told. You are insured it is our business not yours.
Agree with what you say about the insurance position. However, if we don’t pay the transfer fee due to the reported contract and registration issues then what will we have to claim ? Nothing I assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2
There's a few things hear
1. Yes the pilot should not have flown at night and by doing so should a lack of care to Sala.
2. Not being able to fly at night ultimately doesn't mean the deaths are his fault
3. The whole transfer saga, I can certainly see why Cardiff are being portrayed in a bad light but ultimately have to ensure they are doing things as legally obliged . Obviously we signed him and he was our played but if there were stipulations put in which haven't been adhered to we would be stupid to pay 15 million. Ultimately I can see why Nantes would be furious but they would have had to agree to the conditions.
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Mort
Insurers
You are not liable
Club
But we said he was our player this looks awful the young man is dead
Insurers
You are not liable so we are not paying out on the insurance
Club
What do we do then.
Insurers.
Nothing.
Leave it to us you are not liable.
The problem is football has its own rules for some things and that could well be the case here. Take administration. Football rules say football creditors should be paid first. Something similar may exist regarding paying transfers; if football rules say we have to pay up that may override what insurers want.