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“Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Not for the first time in recent years, I've struggled to understand the mindset of the fanbase when it comes to the Premier League. There seemed to be a real inferiority complex this season with most fans readily accepting relegation before a ball had been kicked. It was described as 'a bonus season' by some. I didn't get that at all.
The Premier League includes Wolves, Leicester, Watford, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton and Brighton. Are any of those eight clubs bigger than Cardiff City in terms of fanbase and potential? Personally, I don't think so. Several are significantly smaller. Nevertheless, there seems to belief among City supporters that it's unrealistic to expect the Bluebirds to achieve what those clubs have. It's strange.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Not for the first time in recent years, I've struggled to understand the mindset of the fanbase when it comes to the Premier League. There seemed to be a real inferiority complex this season with most fans readily accepting relegation before a ball had been kicked. It was described as 'a bonus season' by some. I didn't get that at all.
The Premier League includes Wolves, Leicester, Watford, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton and Brighton. Are any of those eight clubs bigger than Cardiff City in terms of fanbase and potential? Personally, I don't think so. Several are significantly smaller. Nevertheless, there seems to belief among City supporters that it's unrealistic to expect the Bluebirds to achieve what those clubs have. It's strange.
Add the jacks to that. 7 or 8 years in the Premier league.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Not for the first time in recent years, I've struggled to understand the mindset of the fanbase when it comes to the Premier League. There seemed to be a real inferiority complex this season with most fans readily accepting relegation before a ball had been kicked. It was described as 'a bonus season' by some. I didn't get that at all.
The Premier League includes Wolves, Leicester, Watford, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton and Brighton. Are any of those eight clubs bigger than Cardiff City in terms of fanbase and potential? Personally, I don't think so. Several are significantly smaller. Nevertheless, there seems to belief among City supporters that it's unrealistic to expect the Bluebirds to achieve what those clubs have. It's strange.
It’s not about the size of the club. The championship has as many clubs bigger than us than the premier league does! Using things like catchment area and history anyway. League 1 has a couple of clubs bigger than us also.
It’s about what happens on the pitch. Every week we play sides who have players in key areas who would massively improve our side and who can hurt us. We don’t have anyone like that who the opposition would be worried about or want from us.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Until the club make appointments at board level of serious football people then I think we will continue to make it up as we go along with the consequences we see today.
Tan, Ken and Dalman failed to develop a strategy which would have given us a good chance of establishing ourselves as a Premier League side. We have greater potential than Palace or Burnley or Bournemouth and others but have squandered an opportunity which we may not see again and those crowds of 30k+ will become a distant memory.
The lack of football knowledge at the top has allowed Warnock free reign following his arrival. A Premier League club is a massive internationally known institution generating way over a hundred million pounds of revenue every season. It cannot be healthy to have one man making practically every football decision in such an organisation, particularly one so idiosyncratic as Warnock. As an example, who at the club would have dared question him over the highly surprising inclusion of Rhys Healey, following loan spells at Newport, Torquay and MK Dons, in a Premier League squad? Healey’s agent, James Warnock, must have been as amazed as anyone when he started getting on the pitch ahead of £10m signing Bobby Decordova-Reid, a player several classes apart.
I hope the club will reflect on an opportunity lost, learn the lessons and make the big decisions required in the summer. Doing nothing, crossing fingers and hoping Warnock pulls off another miracle in is in my view no way to run our club.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
It’s not about the size of the club. The championship has as many clubs bigger than us than the premier league does!
I wonder if fans of Norwich or Sheffield United are looking at 2019/20 as 'a bonus season'?
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delbert
Until the club make appointments at board level of serious football people then I think we will continue to make it up as we go along with the consequences we see today.
Tan, Ken and Dalman failed to develop a strategy which would have given us a good chance of establishing ourselves as a Premier League side. We have greater potential than Palace or Burnley or Bournemouth and others but have squandered an opportunity which we may not see again and those crowds of 30k+ will become a distant memory.
The lack of football knowledge at the top has allowed Warnock free reign following his arrival. A Premier League club is a massive internationally known institution generating way over a hundred million pounds of revenue every season. It cannot be healthy to have one man making practically every football decision in such an organisation, particularly one so idiosyncratic as Warnock. As an example, who at the club would have dared question him over the highly surprising inclusion of Rhys Healey, following loan spells at Newport, Torquay and MK Dons, in a Premier League squad? Healey’s agent, James Warnock, must have been as amazed as anyone when he started getting on the pitch ahead of £10m signing Bobby Decordova-Reid, a player several classes apart.
I hope the club will reflect on an opportunity lost, learn the lessons and make the big decisions required in the summer. Doing nothing, crossing fingers and hoping Warnock pulls off another miracle in is in my view no way to run our club.
Good post.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I wonder if fans of Norwich or Sheffield United are looking at 2019/20 as 'a bonus season'?
I bet some are.
A good season would have been 4th from bottom but ultimately Warnock and the club failed.
The bonus for the club was the revenue plus parachute payments which have replaced the parachute payments that have just run out.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Not for the first time in recent years, I've struggled to understand the mindset of the fanbase when it comes to the Premier League. There seemed to be a real inferiority complex this season with most fans readily accepting relegation before a ball had been kicked. It was described as 'a bonus season' by some. I didn't get that at all.
The Premier League includes Wolves, Leicester, Watford, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton and Brighton. Are any of those eight clubs bigger than Cardiff City in terms of fanbase and potential? Personally, I don't think so. Several are significantly smaller. Nevertheless, there seems to belief among City supporters that it's unrealistic to expect the Bluebirds to achieve what those clubs have. It's strange.
I’d say the main reason fans (myself included), had the “treat it as a bonus attitude”,was that from the outset, there seemed very little enthusiasm, ambition and investment from the board, and it trickled down to the fan base.
I, along with many others on here posted threads before a ball was kicked, that we’d struggle and go straight back down, and were shouted down as being pessimistic, negative and “not real City fans”.
I gave my opinion, then spent the whole season going to as many games home and away, as I could manage, and getting right behind the team, as I have done for the last 40 odd yrs, but never once saw anything to change my mind on what I had said at the start.
I think our fans have been absolutely top drawer this season. We’ve got behind the team every week home and away, which is to be commended when you think of the dross we’ve had to put up with from day 1.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I’d say the main reason fans (myself included), had the “treat it as a bonus attitude”,was that from the outset, there seemed very little enthusiasm, ambition and investment from the board, and it trickled down to the fan base.
That's sort of what I mean. There appears to be very little dissent these days. It's seems strange to me that fans readily accept failure. Perhaps the club became so damaged during the rebrand era that many supporters are simply content with the current status quo.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
That's sort of what I mean. There appears to be very little dissent these days. It's seems strange to me that fans readily accept failure. Perhaps the club became so damaged during the rebrand era that many supporters are simply content with the current status quo.
:thumbup:
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Good post.
Seconded.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
That's sort of what I mean. There appears to be very little dissent these days. It's seems strange to me that fans readily accept failure. Perhaps the club became so damaged during the rebrand era that many supporters are simply content with the current status quo.
Ha! It’s got nothing to do with the rebrand! The rebrand long forgotten in the real world
-as it always was going to be.
Good to see our fans having brains. The players have done their best but arent good enough. Warnock also is just not good enough. Yes we could have spent £200 milion and got someone like ranieri in to get us all excited for 5 minutes but realistically we know this would not have worked and we’ve been through enough turmoil to want to go through that again.
People are grateful for having a well run club (of course with faults but overall choo and dalman not doing too badly). People at the games can see that.
The rebrand is just a small footnote in our history already.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Not for the first time in recent years, I've struggled to understand the mindset of the fanbase when it comes to the Premier League. There seemed to be a real inferiority complex this season with most fans readily accepting relegation before a ball had been kicked. It was described as 'a bonus season' by some. I didn't get that at all.
The Premier League includes Wolves, Leicester, Watford, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Burnley, Southampton and Brighton. Are any of those eight clubs bigger than Cardiff City in terms of fanbase and potential? Personally, I don't think so. Several are significantly smaller. Nevertheless, there seems to belief among City supporters that it's unrealistic to expect the Bluebirds to achieve what those clubs have. It's strange.
Yup, there was a noticeable inferiority complex amongst many of the fans. It trickled down from Warnock with his constant references to "Little Ol' Us".
I accept that it's sometimes part of a manager's psychology to take the pressure off his team, however, it was bordering on the Slade-esque (Russel Slade would even manage to big-up the likes of Burton Albion before a match).
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
That's sort of what I mean. There appears to be very little dissent these days. It's seems strange to me that fans readily accept failure. Perhaps the club became so damaged during the rebrand era that many supporters are simply content with the current status quo.
What kind of dissent do you mean? Sounding off on message boards and Twitter? Booing during games?
I'm not sure that doing either is productive.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rock_Flock_of_Five
Yup, there was a noticeable inferiority complex amongst many of the fans. It trickled down from Warnock with his constant references to "Little Ol' Us".
I accept that it's sometimes part of a manager's psychology to take the pressure off his team, however, it was bordering on the Slade-esque (Russel Slade would even manage to big-up the likes of Burton Albion before a match).
Warnock did this all of last season when we got 90 points. He used to big us up when he managed against us, even when we were shit. Its just what he does publicly.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
Ha! It’s got nothing to do with the rebrand! The rebrand long forgotten in the real world
-as it always was going to be.
Good to see our fans having brains. The players have done their best but arent good enough. Warnock also is just not good enough. Yes we could have spent £200 milion and got someone like ranieri in to get us all excited for 5 minutes but realistically we know this would not have worked and we’ve been through enough turmoil to want to go through that again.
People are grateful for having a well run club (of course with faults but overall choo and dalman not doing too badly). People at the games can see that.
The rebrand is just a small footnote in our history already.
Why do you think that would not have worked?
I'd have thought that would have given us a very real chance of being a Premier League club next season (not that that scenario would have ever played out).
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
Warnock did this all of last season when we got 90 points. He used to big us up when he managed against us, even when we were shit. Its just what he does publicly.
He may well have done. However, you keep hearing it time-after-time and eventually it rubs off on you - you begin to believe it and feel inferior.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rock_Flock_of_Five
Why do you think that would not have worked?
I'd have thought that would have given us a very real chance of being a Premier League club next season (not that that scenario would have ever played out).
How did it work for fulham?
We would have needed a whole new team. The clubs who historically done the best coming up have stayed as close as possible to what got them there.
To spend so much that relegation would have meant probable collapse of the club again- would have been totally irresponsible. The club did the right thing. We werent far off and go back down in a good way.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
I love the way everyone keeps using Fulham as their yardstick. How about Wolves, Bournemouth? They both spent money, but spent it wisely.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
Ha! It’s got nothing to do with the rebrand! The rebrand long forgotten in the real world
-as it always was going to be.
Good to see our fans having brains. The players have done their best but arent good enough. Warnock also is just not good enough. Yes we could have spent £200 milion and got someone like ranieri in to get us all excited for 5 minutes but realistically we know this would not have worked and we’ve been through enough turmoil to want to go through that again.
People are grateful for having a well run club (of course with faults but overall choo and dalman not doing too badly). People at the games can see that.
The rebrand is just a small footnote in our history already.
In what way is the club well-run?
You have said yourself the players and the manager weren't good enough for the division they were in. So how does that equate to a well-run club?
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
What kind of dissent do you mean? Sounding off on message boards and Twitter? Booing during games?
I'm not sure that doing either is productive.
I don't know, I'm not really close enough to the club to these days to have a firm opinion of how the fanbase reacts to anything. It just seems to me that most fans were resigned to relegation almost from the moment the club was promoted, and I find that puzzling. The board didn't show much ambition and the manager was talking about relegation from the outset, but it seems that was fine with the vast majority of supporters. The fanbase seems to have become very passive.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I don't know, I'm not really close enough to the club to these days to have a firm opinion of how the fanbase reacts to anything. It just seems to me that most fans were resigned to relegation almost from the moment the club was promoted, and I find that puzzling. The board didn't show much ambition and the manager was talking about relegation from the outset, but it seems that was fine with the vast majority of supporters. The fanbase seems to have become very passive.
I’m not sure that reflects the attitude of the fans I travel with. A relegation battle was certainly expected but all seemed to think we had a chance until after the Fulham game.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
In what way is the club well-run?
You have said yourself the players and the manager weren't good enough for the division they were in. So how does that equate to a well-run club?
Financially we seem to be doing ok. Better than we were anyway no?
And there is a good feeling around the club in general. Football clubs are very rarely well run- we never seemed to be under clemo, wright, kumar, borley, sam or ridsdale. People generally feel the current people running the club are better than any of those.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Of course we are a bigger club than a number already there. Unfortunately those clubs have already built their sides and added to them with PL cash
We were miles behind them and are restricted by mistakes in the past.
Weve got the best most united fans base since ive been a fan. A new generation of younger fans who are vocal in their support in the Canton and proving you dont need to be by the away fans to create an atmosphere.
We haven't thrown the cheque book at it and will be in a better position than last season. Record crowds , great stadium all from being on the brink in the not so distant past.
Yeah I think we are a well run club.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Add the jacks to that. 7 or 8 years in the Premier league.
brilliant stuff :thumbup:
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
Financially we seem to be doing ok. Better than we were anyway no?
I don't know. I'm not sure how such a thing can be accurately measured. As far as I'm aware, the club is still reliant on the backing of a rich man from Malaysia, just as it was nine years ago. Is that no longer the case?
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I don't know. I'm not sure how such a thing can be accurately measured. As far as I'm aware, the club is still reliant on the backing of a rich man from Malaysia, just as it was nine years ago. Is that no longer the case?
I maybe wrong with the reality but the general feeling and the perception is certainly that the club is doing ok off the pitch.
You were wondering why there isnt more dissent- i think that is one of the reasons aswell.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
I wouldn't describe it as readily accepting failure but recognising we're a "young" club compared to others mentioned in this thread and that staying positive and together gave us the best chance of staying up. We're a young club in that we have spent the last 8 years trying to be one thing for 5 minutes and then trying to be something else 5 minutes later so we didn't really get anywhere; Warnock was celebrated because he took that on with us in the relegation spots and made a team that could earn promotion. Next year will be a third and final year of Warnock so that stability needed to do what so many "smaller" clubs have done before getting into the premier league in building a strong structure off the pitch.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
I maybe wrong with the reality but the general feeling and the perception is certainly that the club is doing ok off the pitch.
You were wondering why there isnt more dissent- i think that is one of the reasons aswell.
At the moment, it seems almost impossible to establish what the club's long-term goals are. The owner says next to nothing these days (which is probably a good thing), the board are largely anonymous and the manager is very much a short-term solution given his advanced age and his obvious limitations. The club gained an unexpected promotion to the top-flight but immediately began down-playing its chances of staying there and budgeted accordingly. It's really hard to gauge what the ambitions are.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Club is healthier financially than it has been for years and just had its highest league position finish in nearly 60 years.
We all dream bigger but I think it would be wrong to rubbish the achievements of the club over the last couple of years.
Plenty of clubs have shown "ambition" and are now struggling in the championship or lower.
Imagine the doom and impending armageddon on here had we spent 100m and got relegated.
I personally thought we could stay up, but accepted it would be very difficult and as a result I can't say I'm surprised by what has happened.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I don't know. I'm not sure how such a thing can be accurately measured. As far as I'm aware, the club is still reliant on the backing of a rich man from Malaysia, just as it was nine years ago. Is that no longer the case?
Yeah probably saved the club.
Loads of clubs reliant on rich backers. Including the probable PL champions.
Could be worse could be an American Hedge Fund and building a side around Declan John.😂
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Of course we are a bigger club than a number already there. Unfortunately those clubs have already built their sides and added to them with PL cash
We were miles behind them and are restricted by mistakes in the past.
Weve got the best most united fans base since ive been a fan. A new generation of younger fans who are vocal in their support in the Canton and proving you dont need to be by the away fans to create an atmosphere.
We haven't thrown the cheque book at it and will be in a better position than last season. Record crowds , great stadium all from being on the brink in the not so distant past.
Yeah I think we are a well run club.
I could say more, but I'll just ask one question - is an Academy that has produced one player (currently on loan to Port Vale, but not in their eighteen yesterday) who has started a league match for the first team in the last five seasons (and that was just one end of season affair with nothing riding on it) yet costs I believe in excess of a million pounds a year to run a sign of a well run club?
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
So many people missing the point in this thread - or at least the point I was trying to make in my blog piece.
We averaged nearly 31,500 at the gate over the course of this season, that's the eleventh highest in the Premier League. This has to mean therefore that, if you take out the two clubs who finished below us and are going down, there are seven teams in the division who have survived in the top flight for at least two seasons on lower gates than us.
Also, we are the only club ever to have spent at least two years in the Premier League to be relegated every time we have competed in it - shouldn't what I have said in this and the previous paragraph be incompatible?
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delbert
Until the club make appointments at board level of serious football people then I think we will continue to make it up as we go along with the consequences we see today.
Tan, Ken and Dalman failed to develop a strategy which would have given us a good chance of establishing ourselves as a Premier League side. We have greater potential than Palace or Burnley or Bournemouth and others but have squandered an opportunity which we may not see again and those crowds of 30k+ will become a distant memory.
The lack of football knowledge at the top has allowed Warnock free reign following his arrival. A Premier League club is a massive internationally known institution generating way over a hundred million pounds of revenue every season. It cannot be healthy to have one man making practically every football decision in such an organisation, particularly one so idiosyncratic as Warnock. As an example, who at the club would have dared question him over the highly surprising inclusion of Rhys Healey, following loan spells at Newport, Torquay and MK Dons, in a Premier League squad? Healey’s agent, James Warnock, must have been as amazed as anyone when he started getting on the pitch ahead of £10m signing Bobby Decordova-Reid, a player several classes apart.
I hope the club will reflect on an opportunity lost, learn the lessons and make the big decisions required in the summer. Doing nothing, crossing fingers and hoping Warnock pulls off another miracle in is in my view no way to run our club.
A concern but not a shock to me that someone linked to the managers son gets paid appearance money ahead of a better player.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
We may have been in the Premier League, but our infrastructure and planning gives the impression of being League One standard at times.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
We may have been in the Premier League, but our infrastructure and planning gives the impression of being League One standard at times.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
We may have been in the Premier League, but out infrastructure and planning is that of, perhaps, a League One club..
A couple of points I'd like to make. Regarding the 'quality' of our squad, I think it takes a minimum of 3 seasons with judicious and shrewd activity in the transfer market, to at least produce a squad capable of challenging for promotion to the Premier League - followed by equally judicious and prudent signings to have a chance of staying there. City didn't really 'build' until the season before we went up, and definitely were - and are - woefully poor when looking for new talent.
Whilst I completely agree that we are 'league one' in infrastructure, planning, recruitment, scouting, player development, apart from the football side, the club, the stadium, the supporters, staff, always come across as 'Premier League'. We don't look out of place as some others. That's the easy bit, though..
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Re: “Plucky little Cardiff City” take their leave of the Premier League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
A couple of points I'd like to make. Regarding the 'quality' of our squad, I think it takes a minimum of 3 seasons with judicious and shrewd activity in the transfer market, to at least produce a squad capable of challenging for promotion to the Premier League - followed by equally judicious and prudent signings to have a chance of staying there. City didn't really 'build' until the season before we went up, and definitely were - and are - woefully poor when looking for new talent.
Whilst I completely agree that we are 'league one' in infrastructure, planning, recruitment, scouting, player development, apart from the football side, the club, the stadium, the supporters, staff, always come across as 'Premier League'. We don't look out of place as some others. That's the easy bit, though..
The problem with that is that it could well be argued that Norwich have not had three years building their squad - it was put together largely in one year due to a combination of excellent, relatively cheap, recruitment and high quality young talent from their Academy.
Also, every other side that has spent at least two seasons in the Premier League in it's history has been able to survive for at least one season apart from us.
Therefore, while I can see where you coming from about how long it takes to put together a Championship promotion winning side and an "established" Premier League one, there are exceptions to that rule out there.