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Watching the cricket and viewing the multi ethnic make up of the team , which can now be seen within other sports , do we really need it .
Some fans/ attendees of national games may have allegiance , because they live in that country, and like attending games
Do we need it when you see the waining of the old colonialism type nationalism as we embrace a wider mixed culture?
That depends on if we do embrace a wider mixed culture in reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Nationality and ethnicity are different things aren’t they?
Just because there are different ethnicities in a crowd doesn’t mean they aren’t from or proud to be from the country who’s anthem is playing.
People buy into nationalism but it usually contains a huge dollop of propoganda and myth. And it's usually based on one or two points in time. The shape and character of most modern nation states is a relatively a modern phenomenon and the average agricultural employee over the centuries had little in common with the identity, heritage and dogma of those who ruled over him. And people often joined armies either for sustenance or by force.
Dragons, saints, flags, banners, ensigns, anthems and all the other paraphernalia was largely meaningless to the vassals and the workers throughout the centuries (unless they bought into the propaganda).
In your opinion, which ethnicities are allowed to be British?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
It's not a matter of opinion. Anyone can be British.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
Nothing wrong with anthems - even the invented or recently adopted ones - if they help to unite the fans with the team and reinforce their identity. That is especially true for small nations and post-colonial countries. Nations with an imperialist past or aspirations to an imperialist future often use their symbols in a different way, and they can be used to intimidate.
The problem with GSTQ is that the words are awful, the tune is a dirge, and no-one knows if it is the anthem of the UK, GB, England or England (and Wales) in the case of cricket. (They call it the ECB not the EWCB!)
The Welsh anthem makes Warnock's neck hairs stand up - which is something he's never said about GSTQ. That'll do for me.
I don’t consider myself super nationalistic but hearing the welsh anthem at football or rugby always makes the hairs on my neck stand up.
Interesting distinction described here between English and British identities which has passed me by.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...r-say-majority
Same. Other notable bangers- France and Ireland (at the rugby)Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Am I right in saying that the Welsh anthem was one of the first/the first to be sung at a sports occasion and was sung to offer up a celebration of Welsh culture as the haka was doing for New Zealand on that day? Yet when we were in France some of the local population were saying they felt conflicted singing the anthem because it had been taken by the hard right of their country. I would argue that anthem's and other symbols of national identity, just as the words Together Stronger for Wales, are as important and as positive, or negative, as the people owning them want it to be.
But what anthem are you talking about? Are you looking at England play India this morning where the English anthem, English flag and name England are being used to represent England and Wales? "waining of the old colonialism type nationalism" indeed.
#weareengland trending on twitter and if you click on it takes you through to the England Cricket page, with the description "We Are England Cricket. The official home of all of the England Cricket teams on Twitter".
Why don't you just say that you're a cricket fan and are happy to support "old colonialism type nationalism" if it means getting to watch the highest level of cricket closest to you?
Absolutely, I especially love the French one. The translated lyrics make it even better too :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
Try and debate instead of having a dig .Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
It was a genuine question whilst watching today's team athems and some team members not really engaging in it ,made me wonder is it uncomfortable for them .
I just wondered about other board members (sensible ) views.
How is that a dig? It’s a simple question in response to your OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
It's not a dig at all, it's a direct response to your OP. If I've got it wrong please correct me, but you seem to be saying that when there was mainly one ethnicity in the national teams and crowds then anthems were fine, but now there are different ones it's become a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Perhpas they’re not singing
I love our anthem but I do like these two;Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9J6rFWTfVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAZ7iFji2s4
WhoopsQuote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
Perhaps they are not singing because they are not even from that country. Far too many sportsmen crossing over to another country for career purposes.
I went to school with people who were born and brought up in the UK but in terms of cricket would more likely support Pakistan or India because that's where there family's cultural background is. I felt that the OP was perhaps talking about dual-citizenship or coming from a family where perhaps you're first generation British so singing as if you're exclusively English may not reflect your feelings about nationality, and that this is becoming more common as sport gets better at representing all communities. Footballers like Declan Rice for example would also fall into this and perhaps prefer not to sing one anthem exclusively.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
However, I have my doubts that the OP was talking about the Indian anthem this morning so isn't really talking about the complexity of nationality and potential complications of nationalism, and is instead looking for reasons to continue to support #weareEngland which completely ignores that it should be representing Wales as well. Fortunately for them, England have qualified for Olympic football in Tokyo (or so says the BBC commentator) so they have a chance to continue to support a "big" side in international football and Liverpool, for example, are always happy to accept Welsh fans so they've got a chance at club level too.
Doesn't the England and Wales Cricket Team play 2 National Anthems?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
It was the 1st, in 1905 I believe or whenever New Zealand toured Wales around the turn of the last century.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
Of course; every religion (or quasi-religion) needs a sing-song!
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
Never sung better than in Rick's Cafe Americain
The French one, I mean
After ours (or even on a par) is there really a better anthem than this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Gillis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOAtz8xWM0w
No, I dislike them all. I have paid my money to watch a sporting contest not to hear a couple of songs ,with no real relevance to me ,belted out incorrectly by a fair number of people attending.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Just get on with the game.
Melodically I'd go for Ireland, Scotland and France's anthems as the most pleasing to the ear.
But imagine how much more satisfying they'd sound if the lyrics were to be shouted indistinctly rather than sung by someone as supercalifragilisticexpialidociously gifted as Stormzy?
Bar for the severely out of touch and crusty Victor Meldrew types, the rest of us would find his mellifluous tones so intoxicating it would be nigh on impossible to resist imitating Theresa May strutting her stuff which was so cruelly dismissed as 'spazz dancing' by those same musically uncultured plebs.
Here's a reminder of Mayhem's awesome moves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCDFNRA-Wo
I will never support england cricket team as it is only known as england not england and Wales,pompous pricksQuote:
Originally Posted by Majorblue
That's a bit precious.Quote:
Originally Posted by welshwarrior