Playing Against The Jacks

Does anyone else feel a bit apathetic towards this game or is it just me? As i've got older the game against Swansea doesn't really have that edge for me anymore. When we lost to them recently it didn't really bother me, i was angry about the poor performance but was as bothered in losing to them as i would have been most other clubs. I think it's an age thing, although maybe some of our younger fans don't have the connect towards the Derby as was once prevalent during the lower league days.

It's an odd one really, i have no need to travel to Swansea, don't know any Jacks so can't have the piss taken out of me if we lose, there isn't really any personal fallout. They seem to dislike us much more than we dislike them. I think that alot of the disdain towards us is due to the investment Cardiff has received in comparison to Swansea and that the people of Swansea now have a visible enemy (The Welsh Government) as well as the Media, based in Cardiff which in their opinion is Biased towards Cardiff. Both Cities have moved apart in terms of prosperity and opportunity, there were parallels 20 years ago, but not so much anymore. Cardiff has become more vibrant, busier and multi cultural, Swansea has probably either stagnated or got worse, for those reasons i'd say that our dislike for them has diluted. What are peoples thoughts?

As an oldie, the Jacks have never really bothered me- they were two divs below us when I started going to NP in 1970.
The wurzels, mind...

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Originally Posted by bobh

As an oldie, the Jacks have never really bothered me- they were two divs below us when I started going to NP in 1970.
The wurzels, mind...

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I started watching City in the eighties so Swansea were more prevalent for me, although we had some epic battles with Bristol City, especially the Game at Ashton Gate in 1990 which seemed to personify violence in every shape and form, although like us at the time, Swansea were a small club, not even medium sized where as Bristol City seemed a bigger club than both of us. Playing against the Jacks was down and dirty.

The gulf in prosperity is the one these days. It’s quite incredible how big it is now. Swansea centre is terrible and appears to be getting worse with every new artists impression. It appears to rankle with them and adds fuel to the fire that they are fore gotten out west.
It wasn’t so long ago they believed they were light years ahead of us, so much contempt, ridicule at our club and owners etc. I’ve almost enjoyed their fall due to this, even funnier it was their own kind that sold them out to hedge fund.
I’m not really bothered about them anymore either though, don’t know any jacks or have to go there.

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Originally Posted by bobh

As an oldie, the Jacks have never really bothered me- they were two divs below us when I started going to NP in 1970.
The wurzels, mind...

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This. The Jacks is an artificial derby, it will never have the intensity of the Wurzles derby.

Think it's in Fever Pitch that the author describes how derby game against Spurs has been spoilt by the extreme attention on the game and "the lads" going for a day out. Think we've got something similar and the result has been midday kick-offs, OTT media attention, fans crossing their fingers that young, Welsh CB's have picked up injuries, rank songs, dreary football and a distraction to the wider season.

Since the 80s the Derby against the Jacks has been far bigger than the wurzels. Its not even close.

When I started going to City the Swans were in Division 4, and stayed there until 1979/80. Since then it's been pretty much even between us, although we've only played them a few times since we went up to the Championship in 2003. I used to work in Bristol and they really don't like us over there, so it's Bristol as a rival for me, they always used to beat us too back in the 70s. Swans are an irrelevance in their little ground, with their small minded mentality.

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

This. The Jacks is an artificial derby, it will never have the intensity of the Wurzles derby.

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Yes the intensity of selling (if that figure is to believed) 20k when we play Bristol opposed to the likely sellout vs Swansea.

The rivalry with Bristol is barely there anymore, older fans may cling onto it but the younger fans clearly have more disdain and interest in the Swansea rivalry

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Since the 80s the Derby against the Jacks has been far bigger than the wurzels. Its not even close.

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This.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Since the 80s the Derby against the Jacks has been far bigger than the wurzels. Its not even close.

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True - but since 1979 , that was the year of the January 1st game wasn't it ( without checking) which give rise to the line we will fight forever more because of New Year's Day. Ah, the days of Derby matches on bank holidays over xmas and Easter!! That also added a lot to the intensity and rivalry. The Sunday 12 noon kick offs have stopped the violence but have also killed the passion and intensity at these games , that's probably more the reason why the OP feels that the derby games mean less

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Does anyone else feel a bit apathetic towards this game or is it just me? As i've got older the game against Swansea doesn't really have that edge for me anymore. When we lost to them recently it didn't really bother me, i was angry about the poor performance but was as bothered in losing to them as i would have been most other clubs. I think it's an age thing, although maybe some of our younger fans don't have the connect towards the Derby as was once prevalent during the lower league days.

It's an odd one really, i have no need to travel to Swansea, don't know any Jacks so can't have the piss taken out of me if we lose, there isn't really any personal fallout. They seem to dislike us much more than we dislike them. I think that alot of the disdain towards us is due to the investment Cardiff has received in comparison to Swansea and that the people of Swansea now have a visible enemy (The Welsh Government) as well as the Media, based in Cardiff which in their opinion is Biased towards Cardiff. Both Cities have moved apart in terms of prosperity and opportunity, there were parallels 20 years ago, but not so much anymore. Cardiff has become more vibrant, busier and multi cultural, Swansea has probably either stagnated or got worse, for those reasons i'd say that our dislike for them has diluted. What are peoples thoughts?

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I’m with you.

Our ‘rivalry’ with The Jacks all feels rather forced to me, especially as Sky etc HAVE to have something to talk about.

I think that it is because when I started supporting Cardiff City, Swansea Town were some lower league team who we never really played other than in the occasional minor Cup competition and therefore not considered rivals.

Admittedly that changed as they became stronger but the roots of our rivalry are hardly Celtic/Rangers or Everton/Liverpool where opposing teams have been competing very closely for many decades and nearly all opposing fans live within the same community.

All a bit manufactured to me and so whereas I want us to beat them if we lose it is just another annoying defeat.

I'm of that age group that sees Bristol City as a bigger rival than Swansea simply because, apart from the occasional Welsh Cup tie, we didn't play the jacks m between April 1965 and January 1980 (the ages of nine to twenty three for me) and we played the wurzels twenty one times during that period. However, I must admit that the one out of our two recent derby defeats which hurt me the most was the one against the jacks - maybe it was because we were absolutely useless at the Liberty and surrendered with barely a whimper and we were unlucky to lose to the wursels, but in terms of my reaction, Swansea was the bigger derby out of the two.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'm of that age group that sees Bristol City as a bigger rival than Swansea simply because, apart from the occasional Welsh Cup tie, we didn't play the jacks m between April 1965 and January 1980 (the ages of nine to twenty three for me) and we played the wurzels twenty one times during that period. However, I must admit that the one out of our two recent derby defeats which hurt me the most was the one against the jacks - maybe it was because we were absolutely useless at the Liberty and surrendered with barely a whimper and we were unlucky to lose to the wursels, but in terms of my reaction, Swansea was the bigger derby out of the two.

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Exactly my thinking Paul. Sadly I think it is an age thing. When I was young Swansea Town did not really register. They were a team we played occasionally in the Welsh Cup. Bristol City seemed to be a constant presence. Impressions gained at an early age usually stick. That is why, for me, the Wurzels are our biggest rivals

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

True - but since 1979 , that was the year of the January 1st game wasn't it ( without checking) which give rise to the line we will fight forever more because of New Year's Day. Ah, the days of Derby matches on bank holidays over xmas and Easter!! That also added a lot to the intensity and rivalry. The Sunday 12 noon kick offs have stopped the violence but have also killed the passion and intensity at these games , that's probably more the reason why the OP feels that the derby games mean less

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Playing derbies on Sunday at midday has killed them off, no atmosphere or passion, be it bristol or Swansea. Can’t quite recall what time ko was when we beat the jacks in our first stint in the PL? Why can’t they do a bubble but have a Friday night game?
We had some amazing aways at the vetch, welsh cup final, little woods cup replay game with two late goals. Sure there was a bit of bother but only really the fa cup in 91 when 1000’s of bluebirds took over Swansea town like they always used to in the 80’s.
There’s never really been any serious disorder v the wurzels I think?

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Originally Posted by goats

Playing derbies on Sunday at midday has killed them off, no atmosphere or passion, be it bristol or Swansea. Can’t quite recall what time ko was when we beat the jacks in our first stint in the PL? Why can’t they do a bubble but have a Friday night game?
We had some amazing aways at the vetch, welsh cup final, little woods cup replay game with two late goals. Sure there was a bit of bother but only really the fa cup in 91 when 1000’s of bluebirds took over Swansea town like they always used to in the 80’s.
There’s never really been any serious disorder v the wurzels I think?

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There was really bad trouble against the wurzels away in 1990, there was violent incidents all day and a confrontation in the ground when city fans ripped the gate off that separated the fans. At the end of the game some City fans decided to dismantle the turnstile walls resulting in a police officer being badly injured when some idiot threw a concrete block that hit her on the head. After the game there was mass fighting in the park opposite Ashton Gate. Trouble used to break out when we went to them, although you're right in saying that there hasn't been any bother with them for years

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

There was really bad trouble against the wurzels away in 1990, there was violent incidents all day and a confrontation in the ground when city fans ripped the gate off that separated the fans. At the end of the game some City fans decided to dismantle the turnstile walls resulting in a police officer being badly injured when some idiot threw a concrete block that hit her on the head. After the game there was mass fighting in the park opposite Ashton Gate. Trouble used to break out when we went to them, although you're right in saying that there hasn't been any bother with them for years

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I do vaguely recall the 1990 stuff but I was in Oz at the time and there was no web back then, no info! Also the game that was on a bbc wales tv documentary but not sure when then was either, sporadic incidents but no full scale trouble. Don’t think the trouble makers are there anymore to even cause bother, most looking at 50 and way to much to lose these days?

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Originally Posted by goats

There’s never really been any serious disorder v the wurzels I think?

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There's been serious disorder before, during and after games against Bristol City and Bristol Rovers on numerous occasions dating back to the Sixties. However, there's no doubt whatsoever that Cardiff's most intense rivalry is with Swansea, and that's been the case since the Eighties. The Severnside derby doesn't really compare to the Welsh derby and it hasn't for a long time.

Of course, there is another factor that nobody has mentioned: Bristol City's biggest rivals are Bristol Rovers.

It's never really excited me too much bar one match which happened while I was working in Swansea for a few months. I live in Cardiff and know no Swansea fans. In some places where the support is split more I can understand it but for me they are what 40 miles away? I'm sure some Swans fans feel the same.

Bristol similar sort of distance, was more of a rivalry when I was a kid, but even now that feels somewhat flat.

We've been robbed on the whole rivalry front really, Newport could be decent but not until they are better. I even remember over the years some trying to hype Wrexham as a Welsh derby or the "m4 derby" with Reading.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

There's been serious disorder before, during and after games against Bristol City and Bristol Rovers on numerous occasions dating back to the Sixties. However, there's no doubt whatsoever that Cardiff's most intense rivalry is with Swansea, and that's been the case since the Eighties. The Severnside derby doesn't really compare to the Welsh derby and it hasn't for a long time.

Of course, there is another factor that nobody has mentioned: Bristol City's biggest rivals are Bristol Rovers.

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Not so sure with regard to the last sentence. They kind of look at rovers like we do at Newport. Since our rise up, beating them in countless occasions including a playoff and 6-1 at Ashton gate, 2 visits the PL, I think they hate us a lot more than they used too.
They don’t play rovers much these days, whilst living among them for 5 years, they always went a bit twitchy when they found out I was a bluebird....:hehe:

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Originally Posted by goats

Not so sure with regard to the last sentence. They kind of look at rovers like we do at Newport.

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Not in my experience. Admittedly, their rivalry has diminished somewhat in recent years due to league positions, but I'm pretty sure most Bristol City fans would tell you they regard Rovers as their number one rivals.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/b...t-park-3595613

My ex Mrs who left me practically bankrupt is from Penclawydd

I won’t rest until they’re in the bottom division of the Swansea and district league.

😂😂

The derby against Swansea is far bigger than the one against Bristol City, and I imagine that will be shown by the attendance for the game in January

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Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2

My ex Mrs who left me practically bankrupt is from Penclawydd

I won’t rest until they’re in the bottom division of the Swansea and district league.

����

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Give the hedge fund another 2 years of milking the old cow dry and I reckon you will be close to you’re wish.....

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Originally Posted by goats

Not so sure with regard to the last sentence. They kind of look at rovers like we do at Newport. Since our rise up, beating them in countless occasions including a playoff and 6-1 at Ashton gate, 2 visits the PL, I think they hate us a lot more than they used too.
They don’t play rovers much these days, whilst living among them for 5 years, they always went a bit twitchy when they found out I was a bluebird....:hehe:

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6-1????? Don’t you dare give the shit kickers the credit of one goal!!!!

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Not in my experience. Admittedly, their rivalry has diminished somewhat in recent years due to league positions, but I'm pretty sure most Bristol City fans would tell you they regard Rovers as their number one rivals.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/b...t-park-3595613

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Watched that, it was mentioned that England won, no mention whatsoever of the result of Bristol City v Bristol Rovers, slack journalism!

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Originally Posted by bobh

As an oldie, the Jacks have never really bothered me- they were two divs below us when I started going to NP in 1970.
The wurzels, mind...

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This.

Mentioned in another thread recently how it doesn’t feel much like a derby to me anymore.

Perhaps its getting older and living away from South Wales. I’m not from Cardiff either (or Swansea for that matter), so all that capital city/2nd city banter is pretty tired and means absolutely nothing to me.

Even for a relatively younger supporter the ties have been so infrequent, went through the ages of 13-22 without a meaningful game between the pair.

The travel restrictions and early KOs haven’t helped and definitely suck the life out of proceedings.

I remember? Late 99 early 2000s swansea came to ninian Park.
They segregated the Swansea fans and Grange end fans with a green curtain thing. So couldn't have eyeball to eyeball banter.
Ruined the occasion.
I don't think we will ever get the atmosphere back to games, such as the autoglass in1993 where the Jack's scored if I recall in the last minute of normal/ extra time.

I have plenty of mates who follow Swansea but as far as I am concerned I support Cardiff city and any team playing Swansea

I have even had plastic Liverpool and United fans locally tell me I should wish them well as they are a fellow Welsh club !!!

To which I reply which fecking Welsh club do you support then ?

Dozy Welsh idiots

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Originally Posted by goats

Not so sure with regard to the last sentence. They kind of look at rovers like we do at Newport. Since our rise up, beating them in countless occasions including a playoff and 6-1 at Ashton gate, 2 visits the PL, I think they hate us a lot more than they used too.
They don’t play rovers much these days, whilst living among them for 5 years, they always went a bit twitchy when they found out I was a bluebird....:hehe:

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On the Bristol City forum (www.otib.co.uk), they have a dedicated thread concerning all things Bristol Rovers. It has over 4 million views and more than 59,000 replies.
To me that suggests they most definitely see Rovers as their main rivals.

Both Wurzel clubs hate us because of the wales England thing , been lots of trouble with rovers over the years , at eastville and twerton park and when they have come to ninian and that visit to the ccs for an evening game a few years back

But their main rivals are each other

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Both Wurzel clubs hate us because of the wales England thing , been lots of trouble with rovers over the years , at eastville and twerton park and when they have come to ninian and that visit to the ccs for an evening game a few years back

But their main rivals are each other

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Possibly more with rovers than city with us? Eastville, twerton Park

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

This. The Jacks is an artificial derby, it will never have the intensity of the Wurzles derby.

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You can wander down the road , side by side with Bristol fans , and have been able to do so for a couple of years now .
That’s not something you can do at Swansea .

I didn’t go to the most recent Swansea game , couldn’t be doing with the bus malarkey .
Hardly felt anything when we lost other than disappointment in the performance .

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I have plenty of mates who follow Swansea but as far as I am concerned I support Cardiff city and any team playing Swansea

I have even had plastic Liverpool and United fans locally tell me I should wish them well as they are a fellow Welsh club !!!

To which I reply which fecking Welsh club do you support then ?

Dozy Welsh idiots

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Correct

It's worth mentioning that the atmosphere in the evening derby match when Chopra scored at the end was no better than the midday games.