The ticking time bomb of social care

Children's services , care for the elderly , the mentally ill is a growing nightmare

Central government cuts since the tories came back into power in 2010 have had a devastating effect

My old man had alzheimer's and the care package we were offered was threadbare to the point that we ended up doing most of the caring ourselves

With an ageing population and the poor wages care workers are paid we are going to have to face up to one of two things , pay care workers a decent wage or increase immigration from overseas

Either way , brexit and boris are in no means land

It has a massive effect on the NHS as well, as vulnerable people cannot be discharged until care is in place, they stay in hospital blocking beds and then pick up an infection in the hospital and need treating for that as well.

The social care budget and responsibility should be transferred to the NHS, then they can use some of their budget to improve this area and make their other areas more efficient.
There would be a real incentive for them to improve it.

As it is it is under the local councils where it is just an additional cost, there is no ancillary benefit to.their budget to make it run better

It's very difficult not to highlight the political connections to this topic, so I won't skirt around it.

I am genuinely and sincerely concerned about the next five years and beyond with this Tory government.

My cousin who also happens to be my best mate had a prostate cancer scare recently and the crux of it was that there were so many delays in consultation etc that he was super close to the point that had it turned to actually be cancer, it would be very difficult to treat.

Another example is that a truly lovely old fella we as a family look out for recently became a widower and his health has rapidly deteriorated. He was found on the floor in his bungalow with a fairly deep cut above his eye where he bashed something on the way down. He was clearly concussed as he was talking utter shit, whereas he is usually an intelligent and eloquent chap. An ambulance would have taken three hours to arrive so he was taken to A&E by a family member. When he arrived, he had to sit up in the A&E waiting room for hours and hours again.

He was finally admitted as an in-patient and when I visited him, I couldn't help but notice that the staff were clearly stressed but hid it well by being very friendly and even humorous. Further more, a large proportion of them where non-white whereas every single patient was.

We've been led to believe that immigrants/refugees are a drain on our resources. I see no evidence of that.

The Tories will not be able to sustain everything they have promised and the NHS will collapse.

I feel so frustrated and angry about the election result that I'm struggling to have any form of friendly relationship with anyone who voted Tory. It was essentially an election of Good v Evil.

Worrying times ahead, chaps.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

It has a massive effect on the NHS as well, as vulnerable people cannot be discharged until care is in place, they stay in hospital blocking beds and then pick up an infection in the hospital and need treating for that as well.

The social care budget and responsibility should be transferred to the NHS, then they can use some of their budget to improve this area and make their other areas more efficient.
There would be a real incentive for them to improve it.

As it is it is under the local councils where it is just an additional cost, there is no ancillary benefit to.their budget to make it run better

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My old dear had a urinary tract infection in the summer , that was treated then she got cystitis whilst waiting to come home , bloody nightmare it was , it fecked her up so much she now walks with a Zimmer

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Originally Posted by B. Oddie

It's very difficult not to highlight the political connections to this topic, so I won't skirt around it.

I am genuinely and sincerely concerned about the next five years and beyond with this Tory government.

My cousin who also happens to be my best mate had a prostate cancer scare recently and the crux of it was that there were so many delays in consultation etc that he was super close to the point that had it turned to actually be cancer, it would be very difficult to treat.

Another example is that a truly lovely old fella we as a family look out for recently became a widower and his health has rapidly deteriorated. He was found on the floor in his bungalow with a fairly deep cut above his eye where he bashed something on the way down. He was clearly concussed as he was talking utter shit, whereas he is usually an intelligent and eloquent chap. An ambulance would have taken three hours to arrive so he was taken to A&E by a family member. When he arrived, he had to sit up in the A&E waiting room for hours and hours again.

He was finally admitted as an in-patient and when I visited him, I couldn't help but notice that the staff were clearly stressed but hid it well by being very friendly and even humorous. Further more, a large proportion of them where non-white whereas every single patient was.

We've been led to believe that immigrants/refugees are a drain on our resources. I see no evidence of that.

The Tories will not be able to sustain everything they have promised and the NHS will collapse.

I feel so frustrated and angry about the election result that I'm struggling to have any form of friendly relationship with anyone who voted Tory. It was essentially an election of Good v Evil.

Worrying times ahead, chaps.

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I don't have any raving tory mates , I have nothing in common with them

The almost decade long austerity measures have been entirely self-imposed for political reasons which are difficult to discern outside of a deliberate strategy of making citizens' quality of life more difficult year on year as so many of them have been inimical to people's and society's best interests. Elbowing 20,000 coppers to manage an ever burgeoning population is perhaps the most startling example. The "we are skint" mantra only flies for the uninformed. Britain's debt to GDP is over 20% lower than that of the USA's and their "greatest economy ever" according to Trump.

Maybe the globe's 200+ other governments should ask Japan for some tips. They have the world's highest debt to GDP ratio at 237% (UK's is 85%), they also have the world's highest life expectancy and lowest birth rates - and all this with no civil strife in a remarkably peaceful country. Unlike Western Europe and Yank land they don't find it necessary to import gazillions of Third Worlders, and they are especially loathe to admit those of the Allahu Akbar variety.

How about encouraging people to look after their own health? If we expanded the NHS so that everyone had their own personal doctor and nurse the country would still be full of overweight smokers. When you look at the nurses and doctors who go on the box and tell us about the coming health timebomb they are usually overweight ill looking people themselves. If more people kept themselves fit and ate properly then we would have more resources available for the people who are ill through no fault of their own.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I don't have any raving tory mates , I have nothing in common with them

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Be honest Sludge, you don't have any mates at all. In normal world you would be in a straight jacket locked up in a secure cell.

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

Be honest Sludge, you don't have any mates at all. In normal world you would be in a straight jacket locked up in secure cell.

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Oi, leave Sludge alone you wrinkly geriatric!

Dumbothewarrior, a poster here, has convinced himself I'm seeking bum fun with the Cowbridge kerb crawler. I might well do should he change his vest once in a while.

Sludge’s problem is more to do with mental hygiene than vest hygiene. I dread to think about the damage listening to heavy metal must do to a brain that is not yet fully developed. As you must know we only start thinking clearly when we get past 60. I think Sludge is a young chap in his early 40s. My recipe for mental health is a Mozart Piano Concerto every day before breakfast. Here’s some beautiful Mozart with a Japanese connection for you :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTkqZDJ3COU&t=639s

It almost feels as though somebody might need to pay more tax in order for us to be able to afford it...can't be that though.

And the public wants what the public gets.

You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Oi, leave Sludge alone you wrinkly geriatric!

Dumbothewarrior, a poster here, has convinced himself I'm seeking bum fun with the Cowbridge kerb crawler. I might well do should he change his vest once in a while.

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Nah, I just find your little love stories disturbing.

I’ve not given it any thought past that, its not the type of thing I like to give thought to.

Doesn't social care fall under the devolved parliament in Cardiff bay ( the labour one )

Front page of the Echo today how a 47 year old woman from Cwmaman fell over outside her house at 8.00am & lay on the pavement for 6 hours before an ambulance came, then died in hospital.
The ambulance service were very sorry but were experiencing high demand at the time apparently.

Here's that story: The picture a dad wants you to see after his daughter waited six hours for an ambulance and later died https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-died-17439998

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Here's that story: The picture a dad wants you to see after his daughter waited six hours for an ambulance and later died https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-died-17439998

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The whole system is broken but I can't understand why they would wait 6 hours. There seems to have been an unnecessary amount of helplessness in this case. A fractured foot is not like a broken back. You should be able to get then into a car or a taxi. Why would you leave someone on the pavement in the cold for 6 hours?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Children's services , care for the elderly , the mentally ill is a growing nightmare

Central government cuts since the tories came back into power in 2010 have had a devastating effect

My old man had alzheimer's and the care package we were offered was threadbare to the point that we ended up doing most of the caring ourselves

With an ageing population and the poor wages care workers are paid we are going to have to face up to one of two things , pay care workers a decent wage or increase immigration from overseas

Either way , brexit and boris are in no means land

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It's cut to the bone. The Care sector is usually operated by agencies who pay minimum wage and offer zero hour contracts to their staff, the majority of the women. The agencies have to bid for the work and it usually goes to the cheapest provider, not necessarily the best equipped. Carers are paid per visit, they get nothing for travel apart from 25p per mile for using there own vehicle which in effect becomes a company vehicle without the added extra for wear and tear.

The carers sometimes have huge gaps in their rota, between dinner and tea calls, sometimes they're hanging about for an hour or two without pay. They also have their regular clients that can equate to 7 or 8 hours per week,roughly 30 odd hours a month, sadly, that person passes away and the Care agency may take months to replace that care package meaning that the carer loses that money, effectively a weeks pay or so per month. It's a national disgrace how the elderly and vulnerable are treated in this country, as well as the many wonderful care workers who put so much of themselves into supporting their clients, all for little pay. There's also alot of bullying from the agencies towards their staff, making them take visits late at night on their own in dodgy areas with the threat of taking their work from them if they don't do it. It's an absolute disgrace and it's not going to improve under the Tories.

For anyone without direct experience of how the care system (and zero hours 'self employed' parcel delivery industry) works in the UK today, the recent Ken Loach film 'Sorry We Missed You' shows the brutal truth. A 'must watch' even if hard to watch!

Attachment 3415

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Originally Posted by jon1959

For anyone without direct experience of how the care system (and zero hours 'self employed' parcel delivery industry) works in the UK today, the recent Ken Loach film 'Sorry We Missed You' shows the brutal truth. A 'must watch' even if hard to watch!

Attachment 3415

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That film resonates with me. I was self employed in the building industry and did care work in the evenings to supplement my income. I'd get £4.20 for a half hour call, which could involve a hot meal, medication etc or assisting a person to bed in a hoist and sling, 8.40 for an hour call and 2.10 for 15 minutes, although i would refuse a 15 minute call. The calls could be in Rhiwbina then over to Rumney, no pay for travel, calls going over time, leaving service users ib awful situations without any back up and worrying that they'd be dead in the morning, rushing calls to get to the next one etc. It's brutal. I watched that film and it upset me.

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

The whole system is broken but I can't understand why they would wait 6 hours. There seems to have been an unnecessary amount of helplessness in this case. A fractured foot is not like a broken back. You should be able to get then into a car or a taxi. Why would you leave someone on the pavement in the cold for 6 hours?

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Surely one of her concerned friends had a car? That is just crazy , if she had been my friend / neighbour I would have taken her to the hospital .

I put it down to the passive mindset of many people. They don't understand that no one really cares about them. You have got to look after your own health by keeping fit and eating wisely.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

Surely one of her concerned friends had a car? That is just crazy , if she had been my friend / neighbour I would have taken her to the hospital .

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Reading the WOL article (and comments which have since been removed), she had a fractured ankle but also had a bump on the head and was drifting in and out of consciousness. The family were told not to move her as it could make things worse and would be their own fault if they did.
She died of a heart attack the following day in hospital. Theres no evidence that her lying on the pavement had any direct influence on her having the heart attack as she had other medical episodes in the past. Also, I wonder now how the family feel about not moving her, considering things did get worse?

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

Doesn't social care fall under the devolved parliament in Cardiff bay ( the labour one )

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Yes but like the other devolved powers you can only do what you can with the money given by Westminster, which is run by the tories , has been for ten years and will be for another five years at least

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

I put it down to the passive mindset of many people. They don't understand that no one really cares about them. You have got to look after your own health by keeping fit and eating wisely.

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That's a massive sweeping statement

Sure , some people don't take personal responsibility but some fat people are either on medication for conditions like epilepsy or have psychological conditions such as binge eating disorder related to childhood sexual abuse , bullying etc

It's not as clear cut as you are making out

I work in adult social care and believe me it needs a massive kick up the arse. I don't enjoy running my colleagues down but social workers can be the most ****ing lazy, useless pieces of shite. They are meant to care for people in need but do the absolute minimum and really don't care less about the clients they have been allocated, and are more botherted about bunking off and doing the least amount of work for the pay they get. I know that there are loads who aren't like this but they are few and far between. I have come across cases recently where someone is receiving over £8k of care a week but hasn't had a review in over 4 years. And trust me for some people £8k a week is peanuts. Don't get me wrong I am not saying some people don't need 10 times that a week but the system just lets people keep adding onto care but social workers don't review or pick up the spending and block it. To be honest it is too much work or they don't like the 'difficult conversation' with family or friends (who are often the care provider). Care work needs to be brought in house rather than offloading it to piss-poor providers who give the minimum provision for the biggest pay. It makes my blood boil when I point out cases I have found where the Council is getting ripped off and nothing gets done as that person needs the care and nobody but the people ripping off the taxpayer can provide it.

RJK - I like your idea of it being controlled by the NHS but it would need some serious safeguarding and control putting in place as at the moment what I have seen of the NHS so far has been utterly amaterurish at best when it comes to making the correct decision for value for money versus what is right for the client.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Nah, I just find your little love stories disturbing.

I’ve not given it any thought past that, its not the type of thing I like to give thought to.

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What's disturbing about me giving organ the horn ?

He's only human

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Originally Posted by Maccy Blue

I work in adult social care and believe me it needs a massive kick up the arse. I don't enjoy running my colleagues down but social workers can be the most ****ing lazy, useless pieces of shite. They are meant to care for people in need but do the absolute minimum and really don't care less about the clients they have been allocated, and are more botherted about bunking off and doing the least amount of work for the pay they get. I know that there are loads who aren't like this but they are few and far between. I have come across cases recently where someone is receiving over £8k of care a week but hasn't had a review in over 4 years. And trust me for some people £8k a week is peanuts. Don't get me wrong I am not saying some people don't need 10 times that a week but the system just lets people keep adding onto care but social workers don't review or pick up the spending and block it. To be honest it is too much work or they don't like the 'difficult conversation' with family or friends (who are often the care provider). Care work needs to be brought in house rather than offloading it to piss-poor providers who give the minimum provision for the biggest pay. It makes my blood boil when I point out cases I have found where the Council is getting ripped off and nothing gets done as that person needs the care and nobody but the people ripping off the taxpayer can provide it.

RJK - I like your idea of it being controlled by the NHS but it would need some serious safeguarding and control putting in place as at the moment what I have seen of the NHS so far has been utterly amaterurish at best when it comes to making the correct decision for value for money versus what is right for the client.

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It's shocking. I've been to loads of people whose care plan is 5 years out of date, this is serious shit, medication etc.

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Originally Posted by Maccy Blue

I work in adult social care and believe me it needs a massive kick up the arse. I don't enjoy running my colleagues down but social workers can be the most ****ing lazy, useless pieces of shite. They are meant to care for people in need but do the absolute minimum and really don't care less about the clients they have been allocated, and are more botherted about bunking off and doing the least amount of work for the pay they get. I know that there are loads who aren't like this but they are few and far between. I have come across cases recently where someone is receiving over £8k of care a week but hasn't had a review in over 4 years. And trust me for some people £8k a week is peanuts. Don't get me wrong I am not saying some people don't need 10 times that a week but the system just lets people keep adding onto care but social workers don't review or pick up the spending and block it. To be honest it is too much work or they don't like the 'difficult conversation' with family or friends (who are often the care provider). Care work needs to be brought in house rather than offloading it to piss-poor providers who give the minimum provision for the biggest pay. It makes my blood boil when I point out cases I have found where the Council is getting ripped off and nothing gets done as that person needs the care and nobody but the people ripping off the taxpayer can provide it.

RJK - I like your idea of it being controlled by the NHS but it would need some serious safeguarding and control putting in place as at the moment what I have seen of the NHS so far has been utterly amaterurish at best when it comes to making the correct decision for value for money versus what is right for the client.

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There are loads that are not lazy ....but they are few and far between

Which is it mate

From my own experience we have had to plead for help and even then it's been the bare minimum from a private care agency who were allocated to us by the council under the £90 cap rule

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's shocking. I've been to loads of people whose care plan is 5 years out of date, this is serious shit, medication etc.

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I asked for a needs assessment for my old dear today as shes getting worse and needs more care , I was told to contact her social worker in mid January

In many cases they simply don't have the resources and are swamped

It's not the alzheimers that's killing me , it's the lack of care

A statement made by a lady caring for her husband

Boy do I get where she is coming from

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

How about encouraging people to look after their own health? If we expanded the NHS so that everyone had their own personal doctor and nurse the country would still be full of overweight smokers. When you look at the nurses and doctors who go on the box and tell us about the coming health timebomb they are usually overweight ill looking people themselves. If more people kept themselves fit and ate properly then we would have more resources available for the people who are ill through no fault of their own.

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Poor health and crime is a symptom of poor social opportunities, resources and education. All of these things require state funding and planning.

The tories probably prefer to have a population of gambling, alcohol consuming, unambitious slobs as it is more economically lucrative. Especially when health and policing are privatised.

The higher classes will take care of themselves. They’ll have the best of everything and will become even richer.

Having an upwardly mobile, healthy working class population is costly and doesn’t provide the same short term financial benefits to the upper classes. So why bother?

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Originally Posted by B. Oddie

It's very difficult not to highlight the political connections to this topic, so I won't skirt around it.

I am genuinely and sincerely concerned about the next five years and beyond with this Tory government.

My cousin who also happens to be my best mate had a prostate cancer scare recently and the crux of it was that there were so many delays in consultation etc that he was super close to the point that had it turned to actually be cancer, it would be very difficult to treat.

Another example is that a truly lovely old fella we as a family look out for recently became a widower and his health has rapidly deteriorated. He was found on the floor in his bungalow with a fairly deep cut above his eye where he bashed something on the way down. He was clearly concussed as he was talking utter shit, whereas he is usually an intelligent and eloquent chap. An ambulance would have taken three hours to arrive so he was taken to A&E by a family member. When he arrived, he had to sit up in the A&E waiting room for hours and hours again.

He was finally admitted as an in-patient and when I visited him, I couldn't help but notice that the staff were clearly stressed but hid it well by being very friendly and even humorous. Further more, a large proportion of them where non-white whereas every single patient was.

We've been led to believe that immigrants/refugees are a drain on our resources. I see no evidence of that.

The Tories will not be able to sustain everything they have promised and the NHS will collapse.

I feel so frustrated and angry about the election result that I'm struggling to have any form of friendly relationship with anyone who voted Tory. It was essentially an election of Good v Evil.

Worrying times ahead, chaps.

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My head is still spinning after the election. Really dont know which way to turn. I feel sorry for the country for what lies ahead. Thatcher was a saint compared to the liar.

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

Poor health and crime is a symptom of poor social opportunities, resources and education. All of these things require state funding and planning.

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If the doctors and nurses are unhealthy that doesn't suggest that poor health is a symptom of education or social opportunities. These are educated people who have chosen to be unhealthy.

It has to be be fixed and we all need to add to its contribution, it become a cross party agreement , and not used as a political football, like the NHS

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Originally Posted by David Vincent

If the doctors and nurses are unhealthy that doesn't suggest that poor health is a symptom of education or social opportunities. These are educated people who have chosen to be unhealthy.

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What an ill-informed pile of clueless fckwittery that is. Take, say, a doctor that becomes an alcoholic. Has that doctor chosen to do so, even though they know it's very bad for the individual, and despite their education have made the choice?

Idiot.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

There are loads that are not lazy ....but they are few and far between

Which is it mate

From my own experience we have had to plead for help and even then it's been the bare minimum from a private care agency who were allocated to us by the council under the £90 cap rule

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It is what I said. Throughout the UK there are tens of thousands of social workers. In that number there are a lot that are good at their job and actually pull their weight. However there are a hell of a lot that don't. So the good ones become few and far between as they are hidden by the crap ones in number. But there are still a lot out there. It is luck of the draw which one you get sadly.

It will only be when someone dies that the sorry mess that is social care raises it's head again and people go away and supposedly learn from a half-hearted review. And then jack-shit is done again.

My mother in law died in a private care home aged 90.
She had dementia, was completely blind in one eye from birth & virtually blind in the other, she was deaf, had a a severe heart problem, blood pressure problem & had to have complete blood transfusions every 6 weeks due to an extremely low red blood cell count.
She was assessed by a psychiatrist who confirmed that she was not in control of her faculties therefore could not make decisions for herself.
She had not been able to walk more than a few steps for over 10 years, so had not left the house.
We tried to get her care & when she was finally assessed she was awarded 15 minutes in the morning & 15 minutes in the evening.
My wife had to move out of our home & move in with her mother to look after her.
After about a year my mother in law could not walk at all & was therefore bed ridden.
We asked for her to be assessed again & after several months she was re-assesed & we were told that she could walk & was putting it on.
Also despite a psychiatrist confirming that she was not in control of her faculties the assessor claimed the opposite & claimed she was bright & alert.
She then had to go in to hospital for treatment for breathing problems.
The hospital said she could only be released in to a care home that nurses 24/7 as she needed medical care that my wife was not qualified to provide.
The council social services refused our requests for help to provide her with a suitable nursing home place, re-assesed her in hospital & said she could have an extra 15 minutes care at home provided so 3 15 minute visits a day.
The hospital refused to allow her to leave their care back to her home because again they said she needed a home that had 24 hour medical supervision.
We found a private home with on site 24 hour trained nurses.
She lasted 3 months in the home before passing away the day after the council assessed her again as fit to go home & have 3 15 minute care visits a day.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

What an ill-informed pile of clueless fckwittery that is. Take, say, a doctor that becomes an alcoholic. Has that doctor chosen to do so, even though they know it's very bad for the individual, and despite their education have made the choice?

Idiot.

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Presumably no-one held them down and pour alcohol down their throat every day, so, yes, that doctor or whoever has chosen out of his own free will.

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Originally Posted by headlight

My mother in law died in a private care home aged 90.
She had dementia, was completely blind in one eye from birth & virtually blind in the other, she was deaf, had a a severe heart problem, blood pressure problem & had to have complete blood transfusions every 6 weeks due to an extremely low red blood cell count.
She was assessed by a psychiatrist who confirmed that she was not in control of her faculties therefore could not make decisions for herself.
She had not been able to walk more than a few steps for over 10 years, so had not left the house.
We tried to get her care & when she was finally assessed she was awarded 15 minutes in the morning & 15 minutes in the evening.
My wife had to move out of our home & move in with her mother to look after her.
After about a year my mother in law could not walk at all & was therefore bed ridden.
We asked for her to be assessed again & after several months she was re-assesed & we were told that she could walk & was putting it on.
Also despite a psychiatrist confirming that she was not in control of her faculties the assessor claimed the opposite & claimed she was bright & alert.
She then had to go in to hospital for treatment for breathing problems.
The hospital said she could only be released in to a care home that nurses 24/7 as she needed medical care that my wife was not qualified to provide.
The council social services refused our requests for help to provide her with a suitable nursing home place, re-assesed her in hospital & said she could have an extra 15 minutes care at home provided so 3 15 minute visits a day.
The hospital refused to allow her to leave their care back to her home because again they said she needed a home that had 24 hour medical supervision.
We found a private home with on site 24 hour trained nurses.
She lasted 3 months in the home before passing away the day after the council assessed her again as fit to go home & have 3 15 minute care visits a day.

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Sorry if this sounds unfeeling - it's not meant to - but modern medicine has incredible benefits for many of us - myself included. It also keeps us going long after we would previously packed up..