Can Anyone Tell Me What Harris Is Doing?

It's a serious question, no facetious undertones. This is what i'm seeing so far; Periods of whacking the ball long, over the head of our most creative player (Tomlin) and straight back to the opposition. All of our players taking way to many touches on the ball which slows everything down and allows the opposition to reset. Incredibly slow build up play which generally results in the ball going long as there is zero option. Then, for very small portions of the game we'll press a bit higher and move the ball quicker, then it'll stop. I haven't the first idea what he's attempting to do. In general it's poor, although by now we should be able to see what he's attempting to implement. I'm not to sure that he knows himself.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's a serious question, no facetious undertones. This is what i'm seeing so far; Periods of whacking the ball long, over the head of our most creative player (Tomlin) and straight back to the opposition. All of our players taking way to many touches on the ball which slows everything down and allows the opposition to reset. Incredibly slow build up play which generally results in the ball going long as there is zero option. Then, for very small portions of the game we'll press a bit higher and move the ball quicker, then it'll stop. I haven't the first idea what he's attempting to do. In general it's poor, although by now we should be able to see what he's attempting to implement. I'm not to sure that he knows himself.

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Maybe it's a team transitioning from one style of play to another so shows a lack of consistency with any one style

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Maybe it's a team transitioning from one style of play to another so shows a lack of consistency with any one style

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I'd hope it was that. somehow i don't think it is. I'm having concerns over Harris and his ability to set a team up and implement some kind of structure. It's almost like the players sort of do what they want for periods in a game.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I'd hope it was that. somehow i don't think it is. I'm having concerns over Harris and his ability to set a team up and implement some kind of structure. It's almost like the players sort of do what they want for periods in a game.

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I'm just hoping that with a preseason he can have them playing to a recognizable style

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's a serious question, no facetious undertones. This is what i'm seeing so far; Periods of whacking the ball long, over the head of our most creative player (Tomlin) and straight back to the opposition. All of our players taking way to many touches on the ball which slows everything down and allows the opposition to reset. Incredibly slow build up play which generally results in the ball going long as there is zero option. Then, for very small portions of the game we'll press a bit higher and move the ball quicker, then it'll stop. I haven't the first idea what he's attempting to do. In general it's poor, although by now we should be able to see what he's attempting to implement. I'm not to sure that he knows himself.

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Our style is getting it in the mixer. Whether people like it or not, it works.

He tries something else til we’re losing, then reverts to what works

I don't think he's picked the same formation twice.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I'd hope it was that. somehow i don't think it is. I'm having concerns over Harris and his ability to set a team up and implement some kind of structure. It's almost like the players sort of do what they want for periods in a game.

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This is exactly it.

They are playing a terrible tactic but at points in the game they feel they need to play more naturally to achieve what their position demands, then we score and revert back to the tactic.

He's walked into an already failing unit.

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Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue

Our style is getting it in the mixer. Whether people like it or not, it works.

He tries something else til we’re losing, then reverts to what works

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Neil Harris' post-match comments say much the same:


Cardiff City manager Neil Harris told BBC Sport Wales:

"First half, got to be honest, we were not very good, we were poor with the ball.

"We said at half time, let's simplify the plan and do what the conditions dictated.

"We went a bit more direct and in the second half it was everything our fans want to see, a team who have a right go.

"We played in the right areas and looked a real threat, if the referee does his job properly we probably win the game. I felt it was definitely a penalty on Lee Tomlin.

"I thought at the time it was a stonewall penalty."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51072961

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Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue

Our style is getting it in the mixer. Whether people like it or not, it works.

He tries something else til we’re losing, then reverts to what works

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I don't agree, when we're losing he starts pressing a bit higher and the tempo becomes a bit quicker, it's still error strewn and clumpy but a bit better than the morrison long ball, midfielders taking to many touches and knocking the ball backwards approach that seems to be the tactics at 0-0.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Neil Harris' post-match comments say much the same:


Cardiff City manager Neil Harris told BBC Sport Wales:

"First half, got to be honest, we were not very good, we were poor with the ball.

"We said at half time, let's simplify the plan and do what the conditions dictated.

"We went a bit more direct and in the second half it was everything our fans want to see, a team who have a right go.

"We played in the right areas and looked a real threat, if the referee does his job properly we probably win the game. I felt it was definitely a penalty on Lee Tomlin.

"I thought at the time it was a stonewall penalty."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51072961

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**** me, he's talking for the fans now, what a 'get out' Just because he can't get the players to play, he pretends that he changed the style to appease the supporters. ****ing Warnock Mark 2.

Lets see where we are after the summer window.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Lets see where we are after the summer window.

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Exactly. Take away a couple of 90+ minute goals earlier in the season and we'd have been a lot closer to relegation places by time Warnock left, we're now transitioning into something more sustainable in the middle of the season without being able to bring in new faces. All we can say is Harris is getting better results than Warnock was this year.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Lets see where we are after the summer window.

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Fine but if he is unsure what is wrong with a couple of loans.?
There are plenty of good young players in the Premiership.
We should be trying to convince them that first team championship football until the end of the season would be a benefit for both parties.
By the summer Harris should be clear what/who we should be looking for

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Originally Posted by surge

Exactly. Take away a couple of 90+ minute goals earlier in the season and we'd have been a lot closer to relegation places by time Warnock left, we're now transitioning into something more sustainable in the middle of the season without being able to bring in new faces. All we can say is Harris is getting better results than Warnock was this year.

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I'm more concerned about performance and players developing. I don't see either. People go on about results, but without players improving and the performance having some structure and fluidity then things wont really get better, or if they do it'll be short term.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

**** me, he's talking for the fans now, what a 'get out' Just because he can't get the players to play, he pretends that he changed the style to appease the supporters. ****ing Warnock Mark 2.

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He said he changed it because that’s what the conditions dictated.

You say yourself the players themselves take too many touches, anyone who watches us could tell you that, so until we can get players in important positions who don’t need so many touches then I’m sure we will all, Harris included, continue to be frustrated.

Blakey on the radio said we had the full backs pushed forward, some nice play by Nelson, Morrison and Pack to create space for Morrison to step forward, which he does, but then instead of using the full backs he smashes the ball over Tomlins head. I can’t believe for one second that’s what Harris wants him to do if the fullbacks are pushed forward.

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Originally Posted by DubaiDai

Fine but if he is unsure what is wrong with a couple of loans.?
There are plenty of good young players in the Premiership.
We should be trying to convince them that first team championship football until the end of the season would be a benefit for both parties.
By the summer Harris should be clear what/who we should be looking for

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What benefit is loaning young PL players??.

Seriously the only point is to get promotion. Otherwise its all momey wasted. Like the Jacks.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Maybe it's a team transitioning from one style of play to another so shows a lack of consistency with any one style

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I thought that at first. I'm beginning to have doubts now. I don't think I trust him. I never thought I would say this, but I think we need a year of Russell Slade. This squad needs to be decimated.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I'm more concerned about performance and players developing. I don't see either. People go on about results, but without players improving and the performance having some structure and fluidity then things wont really get better, or if they do it'll be short term.

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We've seen flashes, for example second goal against Sheffield Wednesday a couple of weeks ago, but development of individuals or performance has not been obvious. Improvements were always going to be a slow process and seen, if Harris is capable of bringing them about, in last two months of season/though summer. Until then we have a very expensive midtable squad and a slightly more complex impression of Neil Warnock's legacy here.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

What benefit is loaning young PL players??.

Seriously the only point is to get promotion. Otherwise its all momey wasted. Like the Jacks.

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Harris probably needs more time to go for the right players. Summer period is notoriously better for signings than January.
We have shipped a few players off the wage bill so I am sure we are making financial room.

The conditions? Was it windy or was the pitch boggy? I could understand this statement if it was 15-20 years ago, most pitches are fantastic now. He could get the players playing quicker in my opinion, it's down to him that players aren't allowed to carry the ball from midfield or allow the opposition to worry about them rather than the other way round. He's very conservative, another manager who believes in playing in the final third, although sometimes we do try and play for small parts of the game and the movement isn't there. He obviously thinks that the players aren't up to it, i disagree, i think that he could try and implement a more progressive style. He just isn't about that.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

The conditions? Was it windy or was the pitch boggy? I could understand this statement if it was 15-20 years ago, most pitches are fantastic now. He could get the players playing quicker in my opinion, it's down to him that players aren't allowed to carry the ball from midfield or allow the opposition to worry about them rather than the other way round. He's very conservative, another manager who believes in playing in the final third, although sometimes we do try and play for small parts of the game and the movement isn't there. He obviously thinks that the players aren't up to it, i disagree, i think that he could try and implement a more progressive style. He just isn't about that.

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Pitch was bobbly

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...am-1-1-cardiff

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

The conditions? Was it windy or was the pitch boggy? I could understand this statement if it was 15-20 years ago, most pitches are fantastic now. He could get the players playing quicker in my opinion, it's down to him that players aren't allowed to carry the ball from midfield or allow the opposition to worry about them rather than the other way round. He's very conservative, another manager who believes in playing in the final third, although sometimes we do try and play for small parts of the game and the movement isn't there. He obviously thinks that the players aren't up to it, i disagree, i think that he could try and implement a more progressive style. He just isn't about that.

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I was wondering that.

Did the conditions change dramatically during the course of the game or did he mean ‘situation’? 🤷*♂️

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

The conditions? Was it windy or was the pitch boggy? I could understand this statement if it was 15-20 years ago, most pitches are fantastic now. He could get the players playing quicker in my opinion, it's down to him that players aren't allowed to carry the ball from midfield or allow the opposition to worry about them rather than the other way round. He's very conservative, another manager who believes in playing in the final third, although sometimes we do try and play for small parts of the game and the movement isn't there. He obviously thinks that the players aren't up to it, i disagree, i think that he could try and implement a more progressive style. He just isn't about that.

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Disagree. We haven’t got the centre half’s to bring the ball out and haven’t got the central midfielders to set the tone.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Disagree. We haven’t got the centre half’s to bring the ball out and haven’t got the central midfielders to set the tone.

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I think that we could start by rolling the ball into midfield occasionally and trying to build quickly, it doesn't have to be a polar transition, i think that the players we have could cope with that from time to time. The biggest problem we have is options for players who are on the ball, there aren't any. Harris has to be brave on occasion and allow players a bit of freedom to create space in order to play through the lines. He doesn't want to know, and i can't see that changind even when he has had a couple of windows. I don't think he's up to it, time will tell, but if he was looking at a different style and approach then he'd be experimenting with it now a little.

The way we talk sometimes is like the players we have don't possess enough ability to hold onto the ball, Harris is pushing that line in order to suit his own footballing beliefs in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

I was wondering that.

Did the conditions change dramatically during the course of the game or did he mean ‘situation’? ��*♂️

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I think that he means his own situation and his own ambitions and philosophy. We got the goal from a set piece so that's ok. We need to start being more creative at the right times in order to create chances from open play. As you can tell i've had a **** full of crap football and managers who have no inclination to try and change our style, even with the players we have-Perish the thought!

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

The conditions? Was it windy or was the pitch boggy? I could understand this statement if it was 15-20 years ago, most pitches are fantastic now. He could get the players playing quicker in my opinion, it's down to him that players aren't allowed to carry the ball from midfield or allow the opposition to worry about them rather than the other way round. He's very conservative, another manager who believes in playing in the final third, although sometimes we do try and play for small parts of the game and the movement isn't there. He obviously thinks that the players aren't up to it, i disagree, i think that he could try and implement a more progressive style. He just isn't about that.

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I was wondering that.

Did the conditions change dramatically during the course of the game or did he mean ‘situation’? 🤷*♂️

""I said, 'Boys, we're a little bit caught in between what we're doing. We've got some fantastic footballers in the team, but we've got players who can play direct, and have been successful playing that way over a period of time, so we are going to go direct.'
I was prepared to give Harris time...but what the hell is this nonsense?? Why does he not just come out and say we were f**cking awful I will get rid of most of these??

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Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

""I said, 'Boys, we're a little bit caught in between what we're doing. We've got some fantastic footballers in the team, but we've got players who can play direct, and have been successful playing that way over a period of time, so we are going to go direct.'
I was prepared to give Harris time...but what the hell is this nonsense?? Why does he not just come out and say we were f**cking awful I will get rid of most of these??

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That statement is bullshit. The players are caught between what they're doing because he's not implementing it hard enough. That statement is more about him than the players.

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Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

""I said, 'Boys, we're a little bit caught in between what we're doing. We've got some fantastic footballers in the team, but we've got players who can play direct, and have been successful playing that way over a period of time, so we are going to go direct.'
I was prepared to give Harris time...but what the hell is this nonsense?? Why does he not just come out and say we were f**cking awful I will get rid of most of these??

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And lose the dressing room. Yeah great idea.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I think that we could start by rolling the ball into midfield occasionally and trying to build quickly, it doesn't have to be a polar transition, i think that the players we have could cope with that from time to time. The biggest problem we have is options for players who are on the ball, there aren't any. Harris has to be brave on occasion and allow players a bit of freedom to create space in order to play through the lines. He doesn't want to know, and i can't see that changind even when he has had a couple of windows. I don't think he's up to it, time will tell, but if he was looking at a different style and approach then he'd be experimenting with it now a little.

The way we talk sometimes is like the players we have don't possess enough ability to hold onto the ball, Harris is pushing that line in order to suit his own footballing beliefs in my opinion.

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He’s got Tomlin in the hole and I think Harris wants to play through him but unfortunately behind him we just haven’t got the players to play passes quickly and accurately between the lines. That’s not Harris fault. He’s not a miracle worker. He can’t make Pack quicker, he can’t make Bacuna get the ball out of his feet any quicker. Players have to take responsibility as well.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

He’s got Tomlin in the hole and I think Harris wants to play through him but unfortunately behind him we just haven’t got the players to play passes quickly and accurately between the lines. That’s not Harris fault. He’s not a miracle worker. He can’t make Pack quicker, he can’t make Bacuna get the ball out of his feet any quicker. Players have to take responsibility as well.

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Players do have to take responsibility for their performance and decision making. I can't believe that we have a midfield that can't keep possession or move the ball quicker at times, they must've played that way at some point in their careers. I agree with you about the limitations, but i also believe that Harris is hiding behind them and using it in a way to suit his own footballing style. I suppose we'll have to disagree. It'll be interesting to see if anything changes when he does have the chance to bring in his own players.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Players do have to take responsibility for their performance and decision making. I can't believe that we have a midfield that can't keep possession or move the ball quicker at times, they must've played that way at some point in their careers. I agree with you about the limitations, but i also believe that Harris is hiding behind them and using it in a way to suit his own footballing style. I suppose we'll have to disagree. It'll be interesting to see if anything changes when he does have the chance to bring in his own players.

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As far as I can see he’s tried it and it’s just not happening. It’s been evident in some games we are trying to play through midfield, he wants Tomlin on the ball more, but we just cannot do it quick enough. Unfortunately, as he seems to have admitted today, we have players who are better going direct and that’s why we’ve seen Paterson brought back into the fray last couple of games.

I’m as frustrated as anyone but also realistic enough to know the limitations of this team. Warnock has built this squad in his mould and it’s not going to be a quick fix, no matter how much we are desperate for it to be,

I think it's pretty clear that, compared with how we set up under Warnock earlier in the season, Harris is trying to get us to play more possession football with the fullbacks higher up the pitch. The problem is that most of our players aren't comfortable enough on the ball to play this way and the lack of pace in midfield and central defence leaves us vulnerable to the counterattack. We're hugely reliant on Tomlin to create and score goals.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

I think it's pretty clear that, compared with how we set up under Warnock earlier in the season, Harris is trying to get us to play more possession football with the fullbacks higher up the pitch. The problem is that most of our players aren't comfortable enough on the ball to play this way and the lack of pace in midfield and central defence leaves us vulnerable to the counterattack. We're hugely reliant on Tomlin to create and score goals.

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Absolutely spot on

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Originally Posted by delmbox

I'm just hoping that with a preseason he can have them playing to a recognizable style

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Keep dreaming! in two years time we'll all realise we've wasted two years, meanwhile we'll all be two years older. A cheapskate appointment that gives the owners all they deserve.