Why are our expectancy levels so low?

Two replies to different threads make for interesting reading.

TOBW mentioned that he is never disappointed by this team as he never expects anything from them. I think I put myself in the same camp. Performances have hardly risen to a point where I think this team is going to win a game, let alone go on any sort of run.

Yet Shute points out that, in a league table of games played since Harris took over, we're 5th with 25 points from 15 games. That would see us very close to a top 6 finish if we continue that. In those 15 games only Millwall have lost as few games (2), so we're one of the toughest teams to beat. Defensively, taking the one-off QPR debacle out of the equation, we'd have one of best records. Scoring goals has been more of a problem, hence us drawing more games than any other teams over the same period.

And we've already played most of our really tough away games already (away to Leeds, WBA, Brentford, Forest and the Jacks). We still have to go to Fulham and a resurgent Stoke, but we have a bunch of winnable trips too. As always though we will need to make CCS a fortress if this form is to continue and we might turn some of the draws into wins.

It's about time the media and the fans get behind Harris and we might just do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Two replies to different threads make for interesting reading.

TOBW mentioned that he is never disappointed by this team as he never expects anything from them. I think I put myself in the same camp. Performances have hardly risen to a point where I think this team is going to win a game, let alone go on any sort of run.

Yet Shute points out that, in a league table of games played since Harris took over, we're 5th with 25 points from 15 games. That would see us very close to a top 6 finish if we continue that. In those 15 games only Millwall have lost as few games (2), so we're one of the toughest teams to beat. Defensively, taking the one-off QPR debacle out of the equation, we'd have one of best records. Scoring goals has been more of a problem, hence us drawing more games than any other teams over the same period.

---

We've been watching this team for six months now and how many performances have we turned in that could be called top six quality? We've proved over the last two thirds of our thirty one matches that we've mastered the hard to beat bit, but the 17/18 side had the knack of winning when not playing well (they usually performed to a higher standard than this team though while doing that). We managed to do it yesterday, but the knack we've got is of drawing while not playing well - the league is so ordinary this season that I don't think it would take much of an improvement for us to give ourselves a real chance, but we are very reliant on one player when it comes to the attacking side of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

We've been watching this team for six months now and how many performances have we turned in that could be called top six quality? We've proved over the last two thirds of our thirty one matches that we've mastered the hard to beat bit, but the 17/18 side had the knack of winning when not playing well (they usually performed to a higher standard than this team though while doing that). We managed to do it yesterday, but the knack we've got is of drawing while not playing well - the league is so ordinary this season that I don't think it would take much of an improvement for us to give ourselves a real chance, but we are very reliant on one player when it comes to the attacking side of the game.

---

I agree, I think it sums things up nicely.

If we have a knack of not losing and picking up almost 2 points a game through not playing well or being convincing, we're not doing too badly! It feels a bit weird.

I think it says a lot about the standard of the Championship this season that a side who have been as shite as we have been are occupying 8th. position. We have been playing relegation standard football not promotion quality.

I would like to see us get into the play-offs but gawd help us if somehow we win promotion.

I think City fans mindset is that we are at best a CHAMPIONSHIP team - that is our place in the pecking order.
It's small-minded.
It shows a local lack of ambition and belief.

When we got to the Promised Land twice it didn't sit right with the psyche.
Relegation was a relief.
We were back where we should be.

The 'WHY' is a whole new question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Yet Shute points out that, in a league table of games played since Harris took over, we're 5th with 25 points from 15 games. That would see us very close to a top 6 finish if we continue that.

---

You have to be realistic.

When Harris took over, City were 14th in the table, 7 points off 6th and 10 points off 2nd.

Once he'd been in charge for 4 games and City had scraped a 3-2 victory with a 94th minute Tomlin goal against bottom team Barnsley, they were 8th in the table, 1 point off 6th and 11 points off 2nd.

On New Year's day, after the 6-1 hammering at mid-table QPR, City were back to 12th in the table, but only 3 points off 6th and 15 points off 2nd.

They are now 8th again, 4 points off 6th and 9 points off 2nd. They're in the same league position as they were after 4 games under Harris, but 3 points further away from the play-offs.

The thing is, we've been watching this team for months. If we're being honest, we know what they are. Difficult to beat, especially at home, but lacking enough genuine quality to score many goals and win regularly. Could they sneak into the play-off places? Of course they could. The standard of the Championship is pretty weak this season, meaning that even a side with City's glaring deficiencies has a chance. Could they actually get promoted? It's currently a 25/1 shot. To put those odds into perspective, City were an 8/1 chance to get promoted at the start of the 2017/18 season.

Results since Harris has been here gave been decent .
We are 5th in the form table and another 25 points from our next 15 would put us close if everyone else continue to beat each other.

However the performances don’t make even the most optimistic ( like me) think we can win enough games to do it. I’d even not be surprised if we only got a point in the next 2 games.

We do seem to be tighter at the back taking the QPR and Leeds games out of it.
Even this is despite the feeling that it’s as much down to the opposition’s poor finishing as 2 of the back 4 were poor yesterday.

At the other end only Tomlin is firing.
Says something that Flint is still our 2nd highest for assists and goals !

We don’t seem to be being dominated as much as we were possession wise, but appear slow to use the ball and not creating an awful lot of decent chances.

The league is the weakest and most even ive known and we’ve got some interesting home games coming up with 3 of the top 5 coming to CCS after the Wigan game and I guess we will have a better idea where we stand by the end of March and at least we are hanging in to SOME hope that our season isn’t over quite yet.

Really does feel like we are hanging on though and successive wins are desperately needed.

2 wins in the next week will make things very very interesting

Personally, I'm being realistic in terms of the rest of this season because I believe that Harris is in a difficult position when he's expected to do a job without his own tools.

As a fan, I'm quite content for him to use the remaining games to suss out the players he's already got, and use the summer wisely.

In terms of our general standing in football in it's entirety, I believe that it should always be the aim to reach the Premiership and would expect the club to be around the play-off places every season, which is exactly where we are now although somewhat unexpectedly.

Something that bothers me though is that Harris seems too much of a nice bloke. He's like someone down the market who'd always ask about the family and would say "pay me next week" when you've only got a twenty quid note on you. :hehe:

I might be wrong about Harris because none of us know what goes on at the club, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear of insubordination from some players.

IMO, the best success story so far since Harris took over is Tomlin. It's like having a new signing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Two replies to different threads make for interesting reading.

TOBW mentioned that he is never disappointed by this team as he never expects anything from them. I think I put myself in the same camp. Performances have hardly risen to a point where I think this team is going to win a game, let alone go on any sort of run.

Yet Shute points out that, in a league table of games played since Harris took over, we're 5th with 25 points from 15 games. That would see us very close to a top 6 finish if we continue that. In those 15 games only Millwall have lost as few games (2), so we're one of the toughest teams to beat. Defensively, taking the one-off QPR debacle out of the equation, we'd have one of best records. Scoring goals has been more of a problem, hence us drawing more games than any other teams over the same period.

---

Maybe because even if we do get promoted like last time, Tan didn’t really go for it, almost as if he knew he couldn’t sack a Neil but knew also he prob wouldn’t keep us up. I get he wanted to bring down our debts and attempt to make the club self sustainable but I think the general “whatever will be will be” mentality has stuck with the fan base.

The vast majority of Cardiff City fans are fully behind the players, team, manager and want them to succeed. It is just unfortunate that the majority of people on this board are not and don't really want the team to win, as it doesn't give them anything to moan about every day. I have given up trying to work out why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

The vast majority of Cardiff City fans are fully behind the players, team, manager and want them to succeed. It is just unfortunate that the majority of people on this board are not and don't really want the team to win, as it doesn't give them anything to moan about every day. I have given up trying to work out why.

---

This post has no relevance whatsoever to the question asked at the start of this thread.

It's also nonsense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

This post has no relevance whatsoever to the question asked at the start of this thread.

---

...whereas my post was erudite, profound and provocative - eliciting no response.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

This post has no relevance whatsoever to the question asked at the start of this thread. It's also nonsense.

---

One day the savvy on here will realise that DML1954 is a troll

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

This post has no relevance whatsoever to the question asked at the start of this thread.

It's also nonsense.

---

Quite.
Expectation can be based on our historical “place” in the footballing world, which for some is based upon our years in the lower leagues and for others our more recent and relatively successful spell of top-half Championship, the promotions and the cup runs. We’re also based in an upwardly mobile capital city with a potentially massive catchment and our stadium is used by the national team, so there are reasons to expect a certain level of success.
The other side of Expectation is around the current team and let’s be honest, few of us are convinced by the performances on offer this season. I’ve seen a lot of posts about teams from recent years (Whittingham, Chopra, Earnie etc etc) where there was a level of excitement that isn’t there with this team and I’d have to agree.
So, some of us have heightened expectations of the club, but are not convinced that this set up will achieve it, hence the criticism.
Although I think a promotion would set us back, making the playoffs might not be so bad, if it encourages the club to invest in the summer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

Quite.
Expectation can be based on our historical “place” in the footballing world, which for some is based upon our years in the lower leagues and for others our more recent and relatively successful spell of top-half Championship, the promotions and the cup runs.

---

When I were a lad, Cardiff City were a permanent fixture in the old Division One from 1952 - 1962.

This fact should gradually sink down into fans DNA

I'd like to ask a question. A comment that's often made (usually in connection with how bad our team is) is "how weak the league is this season". I think both TOBW and TLG have made it in this thread but it's been made by others regularly over the past years. What is it that makes this or others, a weak league? This year we've got WBA, Fulham, Leeds, Derby, Stoke to name but five "Big Hitters". Brentford, after building for 3 or 4 years look like a good side. Nottingham F. look good. Is the comment made because there's no team racing away or is it a gut feel? If it's the former then surely that can mean it's a strong league because all most teams are strong.

To me, I watch a lot of Championship games on Sky, it's the lack of quality football being played. A lot of the sides look very ordinary and it is very difficult to believe that any of the sides are good enough to remain in the Premier league when they go up.

Fulham and Brentford are capable of playing decent football but don't do it consistently, Leeds are Leeds, West Brom were very average at the CCS, Forest very dependent on Grabban for goals ( in fairness the manager is getting a much better tune out of Ameobi than we ever did). Who else Brizzle, Derby????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaulWent76

I'd like to ask a question. A comment that's often made (usually in connection with how bad our team is) is "how weak the league is this season". I think both TOBW and TLG have made it in this thread but it's been made by others regularly over the past years. What is it that makes this or others, a weak league? This year we've got WBA, Fulham, Leeds, Derby, Stoke to name but five "Big Hitters". Brentford, after building for 3 or 4 years look like a good side. Nottingham F. look good. Is the comment made because there's no team racing away or is it a gut feel? If it's the former then surely that can mean it's a strong league because all most teams are strong.

---

Nailed it

The championship, every year , is a very tough league to get out of , very rarely do we have a side as dominant as wolves were a few years back

I dont understand this mentality of we are not ready to go up

We are eighth and we have a chance of a play off place , we need a few wins in a row to become genuine contenders but that's in the lap of the gods

Let's get stuck in and go for it

We naffed up leeds after being three nil down , we beat west brom , the two leaders

We have nothing to lose

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seabird

To me, I watch a lot of Championship games on Sky, it's the lack of quality football being played. A lot of the sides look very ordinary and it is very difficult to believe that any of the sides are good enough to remain in the Premier league when they go up.

---

Actually last season the Championship looked strong.
I watched several games thinking how on earth did we get out of this division.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaulWent76

I'd like to ask a question. A comment that's often made (usually in connection with how bad our team is) is "how weak the league is this season". I think both TOBW and TLG have made it in this thread but it's been made by others regularly over the past years. What is it that makes this or others, a weak league? This year we've got WBA, Fulham, Leeds, Derby, Stoke to name but five "Big Hitters". Brentford, after building for 3 or 4 years look like a good side. Nottingham F. look good. Is the comment made because there's no team racing away or is it a gut feel? If it's the former then surely that can mean it's a strong league because all most teams are strong.

---

From my perspective, it's a weak division this season because there are so few sides (if any) who possess genuine quality throughout their teams. It's a competitive league and it's exciting as a result, but the overall quality of the football appears to me to be relatively poor.

There are some great players in the Championship this season, especially youngsters, but they seem to be distributed right throughout the division. No club appears to have a seriously strong squad by this division's standards.

Much has been said and written about the recent results from Leeds and West Brom, but personally I believe they've come back to the field simply because their earlier results and league positions flattered them. They were never as strong as the gap at the top a few weeks ago suggested. Leeds certainly have some decent players but miss lots of chances and don't have a striker who can score regularly, while West Brom have a reasonable squad but are by no means an outstanding side by this division's standards.

Has there been a game yet where we were obviously the better side? There are a number of reasons we have drawn more games than any other Championship side and probably the same reasons expectations are so low.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

From my perspective, it's a weak division this season because there are so few sides (if any) who possess genuine quality throughout their teams. It's a competitive league and it's exciting as a result, but the overall quality of the football appears to me to be relatively poor.

There are some great players in the Championship this season, especially youngsters, but they seem to be distributed right throughout the division. No club appears to have a seriously strong squad by this division's standards.

Much has been said and written about the recent results from Leeds and West Brom, but personally I believe they've come back to the field simply because their earlier results and league positions flattered them. They were never as strong as the gap at the top a few weeks ago suggested. Leeds certainly have some decent players but miss lots of chances and don't have a striker who can score regularly, while West Brom have a reasonable squad but are by no means an outstanding side by this division's standards.

---

I haven’t checked the stats but both Leeds and West Brom seem to be vulnerable at the back.

We’ve scored 7 in the 3 games against them which is well above par for us 😂

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Actually last season the Championship looked strong.
I watched several games thinking how on earth did we get out of this division.

---

Thought it was string the season we went up.

Wolves were one of the best sides in the league for a while, plus there was Fulham who after a poor start were very good. Villa, Sheff Utd Derby, Boro all seemed strong, then there was Brentford who were maybe as good as they are now ?

Saying that there wasn’t a really big, strong ex Prem side that season like West Ham or Newcastle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Thought it was string the season we went up.

Wolves were one of the best sides in the league for a while, plus there was Fulham who after a poor start were very good. Villa, Sheff Utd Derby, Boro all seemed strong, then there was Brentford who were maybe as good as they are now ?

Saying that there wasn’t a really big, strong ex Prem side that season like West Ham or Newcastle

---

We beat Sheffield United in a night game 2-0 at home but I’m struggling to remember any beaten opponent down the City as good as they were that night. It was a hell of an achievement to get 3 points, Sheffield United were excellent, bar in front of goal fortunately.

I think some people say the league is weak when in reality the teams are more even.

A better gauge for how strong a league is might be how many of the top sides of our league would have a chance of avoiding relegation from the premier league and how many of the premier league strugglers would also struggle in the championship.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

We beat Sheffield United in a night game 2-0 at home but I’m struggling to remember any beaten opponent down the City as good as they were that night. It was a hell of an achievement to get 3 points, Sheffield United were excellent, bar in front of goal fortunately.

---

There were times, particularly early one, where we were brilliant. The victory at Molineux, the dismantling of Villa and Leeds. Why we reverted to hoofing it after proving we were one of the best in the division was baffling

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

We beat Sheffield United in a night game 2-0 at home but I’m struggling to remember any beaten opponent down the City as good as they were that night. It was a hell of an achievement to get 3 points, Sheffield United were excellent, bar in front of goal fortunately.

---

Sheffield United had just been promoted that season. The Game you mention was in August (i think) Sheffield United were feeling their way into things although they did look good. They reminded me of Brentford that evening, good on the ball, great movement and build up but a soft side that early Warnock sides were excellent at exploiting. It goes back to my point, performance is everything. When people were singling out Sheff United and Brentford as 'soft' even though they played really good football they probably didn't allow for the development of those players and the odd addition that would make the difference. It's so much easier to add to a team where players are integrated into a system of play rather than a style that relies on long balls and quick wingers like us at the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PontBlue

I think some people say the league is weak when in reality the teams are more even.

A better gauge for how strong a league is might be how many of the top sides of our league would have a chance of avoiding relegation from the premier league and how many of the premier league strugglers would also struggle in the championship.

---

Would be interested in how this would work because teams going up aim to add four or five players of real quality before season starts and teams coming down aim to lose that many to ease issues with wages. Then you have exceptions such as Wolves who were able to add quality while still playing in Championship, Fulham who aimed to add eleven players of greater quality but was probably a significant reason for their struggles, or Newcastle a couple of seasons ago who stuck with a Premier League squad when relegated to Championship.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cyclops

When I were a lad, Cardiff City were a permanent fixture in the old Division One from 1952 - 1962.

This fact should gradually sink down into fans DNA

---

I was born in 62, I'm a fecking jinx :ohwell:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

We beat Sheffield United in a night game 2-0 at home but I’m struggling to remember any beaten opponent down the City as good as they were that night. It was a hell of an achievement to get 3 points, Sheffield United were excellent, bar in front of goal fortunately.

---

Yeah, they stuffed us at their place too. Very lucky to come away with a point