Concerning news - S Korea

South Korean patients thought cured test positive again
South Korean health authorities say 91 people thought recovered after contracting coronavirus have tested positive for the disease again.

The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) said on Friday it was not clear why the patients had tested positive for a second time.

KCDC director Jeong Eun-kyeong told a news conference it was possible that the virus had “reactivated” in the patients, as opposed to them being re-infected.

Other health experts suggested the patients may have "relapsed” or been misdiagnosed by faulty tests.

The results will be of keen interest internationally, as health experts worldwide hope people infected by Covid-19 will develop immunity to the disease, allowing them to return to work.

So, people who walk around thinking "I am invincible and immune" need to follow this story. Immunity or otherwise has not yet been proven. Suffice to say that, if reinfection, or reactivations are possible then, depending on rates of reinfection and relapsing, we could be in for a long haul.

It's unlike you to post a downbeat story.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

It's unlike you to post a downbeat story.....

---

It's not helping, is it? I'm not saying that the facts shouldn't be presented, but it does seem that some people are thriving on the bad stories. It's been like a competition on here to see who the biggest tell tale is, the amount of 'I saw' anecdotes going around. I prefer to be a bit more positive and look to the future, while digesting the true nature of this virus. Most people on here will be fine anyway as they don't seem to leave their houses anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

It's unlike you to post a downbeat story.....

---

You don't think it may be relevant?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's not helping, is it? I'm not saying that the facts shouldn't be presented, but it does seem that some people are thriving on the bad stories. It's been like a competition on here to see who the biggest tell tale is, the amount of 'I saw' anecdotes going around. I prefer to be a bit more positive and look to the future, while digesting the true nature of this virus. Most people on here will be fine anyway as they don't seem to leave their hou thses anyway.

---

Ignorance is bliss as they say. It is a breaking story, it's a significant story. It's hardly as if it is made up, and "telling tales" is as pathetic a remark as I have read on here.

How is me relaying a story about people getting "reinfected" unhelpful. The crap about Icke is unhelpful - if what I posted lacks facts, then I am happy for it to be removed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

You don't think it may be relevant?

---

Of course it's relevant, but you really do seem to be revelling in this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Of course it's relevant, but you really do seem to be revelling in this.

---

Disgraceful. Are you really unable to talk about any subject without getting personal.

But, then, you do have form for being unable to cope when you see things you don't like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

South Korean patients thought cured test positive again
South Korean health authorities say 91 people thought recovered after contracting coronavirus have tested positive for the disease again.

The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) said on Friday it was not clear why the patients had tested positive for a second time.

KCDC director Jeong Eun-kyeong told a news conference it was possible that the virus had “reactivated” in the patients, as opposed to them being re-infected.

Other health experts suggested the patients may have "relapsed” or been misdiagnosed by faulty tests.

The results will be of keen interest internationally, as health experts worldwide hope people infected by Covid-19 will develop immunity to the disease, allowing them to return to work.

So, people who walk around thinking "I am invincible and immune" need to follow this story. Immunity or otherwise has not yet been proven. Suffice to say that, if reinfection, or reactivations are possible then, depending on rates of reinfection and relapsing, we could be in for a long haul.

---

wasn't South Korea and Sweden being held up a beacon of light in there different approach to this issue of self isolation than ours??

How long after the first tests were these second ones taken I wonder? Also, ninety one obviously looks bad, but there is no indication of the total numbers being retested - I've read before that there are always a proportion of people, albeit a very small one, that test positive more than once during a pandemic and I suppose it's possible that in a country that has been testing as often as South Korea has been that 91 is around that percentage - another consequence of testing so much is that the total number of misdiagnoses first time around has to be higher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's not helping, is it? I'm not saying that the facts shouldn't be presented, but it does seem that some people are thriving on the bad stories. It's been like a competition on here to see who the biggest tell tale is, the amount of 'I saw' anecdotes going around. I prefer to be a bit more positive and look to the future, while digesting the true nature of this virus. Most people on here will be fine anyway as they don't seem to leave their houses anyway.

---

What future ?

Only joking heh heh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

wasn't South Korea and Sweden being held up a beacon of light in there different approach to this issue of self isolation than ours??

---

In what way do you think the above story is something to beat South Korea up about? China also reported reinfection, although that was largely thought to be because the original diagnosis was wrong. If South Koreans can get reinfected (and this story needs further detail), then it implies that any nations' citizens can get reinfected.

I think this story may have links to some people having exposure to covid-19 are not showing strong antibodies.

Now, I appreciate that some people here see things in black and white - and come up with disgraceful slurs such as me "revelling" in this.

The main reason I posted this story was to alert people who are walking around thinking "I've had it, though I've not been tested. I am immune, because I've had it". They really need to think again - and we have one such poster here (and this is not me attacking the person, I am attacking his belief that he is invincible). He has been very sick recently, by how own admission. It is great he has recovered, but the last thing I want is to see him, and people like him, getting stung by reinfection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Disgraceful. Are you really unable to talk about any subject without getting personal.

---

I'm not getting personal. I don't have a clue who you are and I couldn't care less either. I'm just saying that you very definitely seem to be revelling in this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

How long after the first tests were these second ones taken I wonder? Also, ninety one obviously looks bad, but there is no indication of the total numbers being retested - I've read before that there are always a proportion of people, albeit a very small one, that test positive more than once during a pandemic and I suppose it's possible that in a country that has been testing as often as South Korea has been that 91 is around that percentage - another consequence of testing so much is that the total number of misdiagnoses first time around has to be higher.

---

Watching the Horizon programme last night....scientists seem to have no idea as to how long you are immune from infection once you have had it. Minimum seemed to be 3 months but not enough data yet to come up with anything definite. One line of developing a vaccine is to artificially create the Corona element of the virus (through using the viruses genetic code). Manufacture that inert element, inject people, and their immune response is to create the antibodies to tackle the "virus". The body then remembers its immune response if infected with the whole virus and can stop the real virus entering human cells and reproducing. Clever stuff but still 12 to 18 months before this method could be put into mass use. Plus viruses can mutate in that time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

How long after the first tests were these second ones taken I wonder? Also, ninety one obviously looks bad, but there is no indication of the total numbers being retested - I've read before that there are always a proportion of people, albeit a very small one, that test positive more than once during a pandemic and I suppose it's possible that in a country that has been testing as often as South Korea has been that 91 is around that percentage - another consequence of testing so much is that the total number of misdiagnoses first time around has to be higher.

---

These are good questions. You see, some people have said immunity could be anything from a few weeks to years based on other coronaviruses.

In terms of numbers, South Korea (along with Singapore and Germany) are one of the countries to get on top of this. I suspect many people are getting retested as there are so many tests taking place there. Whether that retesting is by design or not, I am not sure.

26,000 tests in S Korea in the last 24 hours alone, in a country where positive tests are rarely more than 30 a day.

There is a possibility they were misdiagnosed. However, what this result shows is that it is right to question any assumption that immunity is a byproduct of having the virus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IanD

Watching the Horizon programme last night....scientists seem to have no idea as to how long you are immune from infection once you have had it. Minimum seemed to be 3 months but not enough data yet to come up with anything definite. One line of developing a vaccine is to artificially create the Corona element of the virus (through using the viruses genetic code). Manufacture that inert element, inject people, and their immune response is to create the antibodies to tackle the "virus". The body then remembers its immune response if infected with the whole virus and can stop the real virus entering human cells and reproducing. Clever stuff but still 12 to 18 months before this method could be put into mass use. Plus viruses can mutate in that time.

---

Did they mention, in this documentary, the effects of a low period of immunity on the possible success of the vaccine?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's not helping, is it? I'm not saying that the facts shouldn't be presented, but it does seem that some people are thriving on the bad stories. It's been like a competition on here to see who the biggest tell tale is, the amount of 'I saw' anecdotes going around. I prefer to be a bit more positive and look to the future, while digesting the true nature of this virus. Most people on here will be fine anyway as they don't seem to leave their houses anyway.

---

You say "it's not helping" but if someone who thinks they are "immune" changes their behaviour based on this story I will say it is completely helpful.

It is, certainly, far more helpful than people recommending to strangers that "going for a drink around your mate's house" is ok when it goes against Government guidelines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Did they mention, in this documentary, the effects of a low period of immunity on the possible success of the vaccine?

---

How do you know that your original quoted story from Korea is accurate or just fake news ? You appear to be approaching it as if it is gospel, whereas you actually have no idea
whether it is or not. As stated by someone else, there is always a small proportion in any epidemic who get reinfected. 91 reinfections out of many thousands of cases is almost insignificant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

How do you know that your original quoted story from Korea is accurate or just fake news ? You appear to be approaching it as if it is gospel, whereas you actually have no idea
whether it is or not. As stated by someone else, there is always a small proportion in any epidemic who get reinfected. 91 reinfections out of many thousands of cases is almost insignificant.

---

Ah, I'll just call up the virologists who are looking into this and tell them they can stop researching now. It's only 91 people. If there's another 91 next week, shall I ask them to start looking again, or do I just tell them to stop researching altogether?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

How do you know that your original quoted story from Korea is accurate or just fake news ? You appear to be approaching it as if it is gospel, whereas you actually have no idea
whether it is or not. As stated by someone else, there is always a small proportion in any epidemic who get reinfected. 91 reinfections out of many thousands of cases is almost insignificant.

---

It would help if the OP had cited the source of the story, rather than just copying and pasting

Anyone seen The Road?
Because if this turns out to be the case we might be looking at years , not months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Ah, I'll just call up the virologists who are looking into this and tell them they can stop researching now. It's only 91 people. If there's another 91 next week, shall I ask them to start looking again, or do I just tell them to stop researching altogether?

---

#ClapForCCFCC3PO

91 from how many hundreds of thousands is statistically insignificant, certainly within the margin of error for false positives - either in the first instance or now.

THAT is why South Korea in that item you copy and pasted ( without rightful attribution, well done kid ) are incredibly vague and not ruling any explanation out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardM

It would help if the OP had cited the source of the story, rather than just copying and pasting

---

Fair point.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-he...-idUKKCN21S15X

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

Anyone seen The Road?
Because if this turns out to be the case we might be looking at years , not months.

---

If there is no immunity, then it is difficult to see where this ends at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tell it like it is

#ClapForCCFCC3PO

91 from how many hundreds of thousands is statistically insignificant, certainly within the margin of error for false positives - either in the first instance or now.

THAT is why South Korea in that item you copy and pasted ( without rightful attribution, well done kid ) are incredibly vague and not ruling any explanation out.

---

Have I ruled any explanation out? I don't think I have.

So, people who walk around thinking "I am invincible and immune" need to follow this story. Immunity or otherwise has not yet been proven. Suffice to say that, if reinfection, or reactivations are possible then, depending on rates of reinfection and relapsing, we could be in for a long haul.

Is what I said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

If there is no immunity, then it is difficult to see where this ends at the moment.

---

Sorry, I should have said if there is no long-term immunity.

Again, these are a limited number of cases, and it'll be interesting to see the causes of the positive tests.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tell it like it is

#ClapForCCFCC3PO

91 from how many hundreds of thousands is statistically insignificant, certainly within the margin of error for false positives - either in the first instance or now.

THAT is why South Korea in that item you copy and pasted ( without rightful attribution, well done kid ) are incredibly vague and not ruling any explanation out.

---

What is the margin of error in this instance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I'm not getting personal. I don't have a clue who you are and I couldn't care less either. I'm just saying that you very definitely seem to be revelling in this.

---

Yeah you do, you do really don't you? :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

How long after the first tests were these second ones taken I wonder? Also, ninety one obviously looks bad, but there is no indication of the total numbers being retested - I've read before that there are always a proportion of people, albeit a very small one, that test positive more than once during a pandemic and I suppose it's possible that in a country that has been testing as often as South Korea has been that 91 is around that percentage - another consequence of testing so much is that the total number of misdiagnoses first time around has to be higher.

---

I do recall one medical expert in the UK keeps saying .the only good test is the right one, and would takes months to get to a point where we could test and say yes you have had it , allowing some folk to resume their lives ,especially key workers ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I'm not getting personal. I don't have a clue who you are and I couldn't care less either. I'm just saying that you very definitely seem to be revelling in this.

---

So exactly where is he revelling in it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef

So exactly where is he revelling in it?

---

Beats me. I think it's because I posted a theory that this could go on for years.

@The Lone Gunman sarcastically labels me "an expert", somehow uses the date of the first day I posted on the subject (7/3) as something that is odd (we had just 209 cases on that day), and whilst calling me a "self-professed (sic)" expert also tried to make mileage from my use of statements like "could be", yet I am posting things as factual.

It is clear this guy is a troll of some sort. He rarely posts on subjects, goes into personal attacks, and tries to deflect the argument to befit a style only his self grandeur could ever carry off wearing. In effect, he'd be walking around stark bollock naked.

It's clear that the point I was making was that people should not assume immunity until immunity has been proven. That, to me, seems logical and worth passing the advice on (especially on a forum where people advise others they can go to friend's houses for a drink, providing they stay 2m apart). To @The Lone Gunman - it appears as something else.

He's logged off for dinner now, so probably will have a cutting remark about how I was posting 45 minutes after he logged off as something of a point scored by him.

Can't believe he is 53 though, far too old for a mid life crisis surely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Beats me. I think it's because I posted a theory that this could go on for years.

@The Lone Gunman sarcastically labels me "an expert", somehow uses the date of the first day I posted on the subject (7/3) as something that is odd (we had just 209 cases on that day), and whilst calling me a "self-professed (sic)" expert also tried to make mileage from my use of statements like "could be", yet I am posting things as factual.

It is clear this guy is a troll of some sort. He rarely posts on subjects, goes into personal attacks, and tries to deflect the argument to befit a style only his self grandeur could ever carry off wearing. In effect, he'd be walking around stark bollock naked.

It's clear that the point I was making was that people should not assume immunity until immunity has been proven. That, to me, seems logical and worth passing the advice on (especially on a forum where people advise others they can go to friend's houses for a drink, providing they stay 2m apart). To @The Lone Gunman - it appears as something else.

He's logged off for dinner now, so probably will have a cutting remark about how I was posting 45 minutes after he logged off as something of a point scored by him.

Can't believe he is 53 though, far too old for a mid life crisis surely.

---

why do these posts drift so easily into personalities , same on the politics board , just goes off on a tangent and you get caught up in it clever stuff I suppose ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Did they mention, in this documentary, the effects of a low period of immunity on the possible success of the vaccine?

---

An unknown at the moment which is why any vaccine has to go through rigorous testing before any conclusions can be drawn and a vaccine is deemed effective and safe enough to be used within the general public. Computer modelling did show how even limited inoculation can significantly reduce the overall infection rate. At a guess, if this vaccination gets the go ahead, geographical hotspots/communities will be targeted first to help suppress infection rates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Fair point.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-he...-idUKKCN21S15X

---

From that link, it reads like a running total which, again, might be not as shocking a figure as it first appears, but it does appear to have gone up by forty in a week which seems a lot, yet it's hard to know what to make of it because there is nothing I can find to indicate how big a proportion that is off total tests.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO

Sorry, I should have said if there is no long-term immunity.

Again, these are a limited number of cases, and it'll be interesting to see the causes of the positive tests.

---

I have no problem with the original article you posted, although it would have been good to know its source at the time, which you later provided. It is the summing up paragraph at the end of your original post that I find unduly negative and doom laden. How anyone can arrive at that conclusion by relying on a sample of 91 cases from thousands is very difficult to understand. It is insignificant.

What's with the @ thing? Stupid!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

How long after the first tests were these second ones taken I wonder? Also, ninety one obviously looks bad, but there is no indication of the total numbers being retested - I've read before that there are always a proportion of people, albeit a very small one, that test positive more than once during a pandemic and I suppose it's possible that in a country that has been testing as often as South Korea has been that 91 is around that percentage - another consequence of testing so much is that the total number of misdiagnoses first time around has to be higher.

---

You may be right. South Korea has done 503k tests, ie 9800 tests per million of population
UK has done 316K tests, 4617 tests per million of population.

More concerning to me is that today UK states 5,100 new cases, 315 in Wales

Public health Wales says 503 new cases, and Public Health England says over 8,000 for England giving a UK total a little under 9,000

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

You may be right. South Korea has done 503k tests, ie 9800 tests per million of population
UK has done 316K tests, 4617 tests per million of population.

More concerning to me is that today UK states 5,100 new cases, 315 in Wales

Public health Wales says 503 new cases, and Public Health England says over 8,000 for England giving a UK total a little under 9,000

---

Although we're probably not talking a great deal in terms of the overall figure, I think there were expectations that the new cases figure in Wales would be high because Thursday's figure was for a reduced number of hours (I think it may have been as low as six) for some reason and I believe the same happened for a couple of regions in England, but although the rate of increase in new cases is definitely slowing, it doesn't seem to be plateauing yet does it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

why do these posts drift so easily into personalities , same on the politics board , just goes off on a tangent and you get caught up in it clever stuff I suppose ?

---

Yes, they usually tend to get angrier as you stay on target and avoid the personal stuff, although it is easy to get dragged into it at times. He who wins the last part of the argument wins the complete argument is their supposition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

What's with the @ thing? Stupid!!

---

It's used on other forums to let that person know you have mentioned them. It's common decency on those forums, and maybe I am using it out of habit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

I have no problem with the original article you posted, although it would have been good to know its source at the time, which you later provided. It is the summing up paragraph at the end of your original post that I find unduly negative and doom laden. How anyone can arrive at that conclusion by relying on a sample of 91 cases from thousands is very difficult to understand. It is insignificant.

---

It isn't insignificant because, as of yet, we don't have evidence of immunity en mass that makes it insignificant. The fact is, there is evidence that should question our belief that having this once means immunity. It may not be the case, and there is evidence it may not be the case. Note the word "may" there.