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Should we give up on the old country ?
If there is to be a united Ireland, an independent Scotland and just for arguments sake an independent Wales (yes I know about the huge numbers of white flight from the other side of the Dyke), should the 3 Celtic countries unite into some kind of Celtic tiger alliance ?
The issue is England keeps voting for an extreme right wing party which on the one hand is a driving force in breaking up the union state but on the other hand if Wales totally abandons England we would be giving up our land as all of Britannia up as far as the central belt in Scotland belonged to the forefathers of the Welsh until the Germanic tribes and their own Kings and Queens came knocking.
It's a job to know what would be the correct path to take......hmm
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
trampie09
If there is to be a united Ireland, an independent Scotland and just for arguments sake an independent Wales (yes I know about the huge numbers of white flight from the other side of the Dyke), should the 3 Celtic countries unite into some kind of Celtic tiger alliance ?
The issue is England keeps voting for an extreme right wing party which on the one hand is a driving force in breaking up the union state but on the other hand if Wales totally abandons England we would be giving up our land as all of Britannia up as far as the central belt in Scotland belonged to the forefathers of the Welsh until the Germanic tribes and their own Kings and Queens came knocking.
It's a job to know what would be the correct path to take......hmm
Do you think that there would be a majority vote for independence if only those born in Wales were to partake in an election in Wales?
If so, what evidence is there of that?
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Do you think that there would be a majority vote for independence if only those born in Wales were to partake in an election in Wales?
If so, what evidence is there of that?
Not at this moment in time but in 20 years or so if Ireland is united and Scotland go's independent and both are doing well and Wales lumped with England is not doing well then who knows.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
This could only be a goer if somehow we could create an independent welsh business growth that generated goods we can export .
Wales at the moment has a large government type sector business environment , we only have one purely (based ) Welsh company as I know of in the FTSE .
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
trampie09
Not at this moment in time but in 20 years or so if Ireland is united and Scotland go's independent and both are doing well and Wales lumped with England is not doing well then who knows.
Bookmarked - but I may not be around at that time :-)
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Bookmarked - but I may not be around at that time :-)
Or bookmark the potential we would be better off as an England Welsh axis and be better funded without the pull of the Irish and Scots .
It will never happen like Labour the SNP will one day come down to earth with a bump , thier relentless nationalist drum banging is just disguising their other political failings .
Not sure about NI ??
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
Id be happy to give it a go.
The Celtic Federation
An overarching federal government and three states of Eire, Alba, and Cymru.
Perhaps an open invote to Kernow and Brittany if they can ever extricate themselves from England and France.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Id be happy to give it a go.
The Celtic Federation
An overarching federal government and three states of Eire, Alba, and Cymru.
Perhaps an open invote to Kernow and Brittany if they can ever extricate themselves from England and France.
Can we extend that to Galicia and Patagonia?
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Can we extend that to Galicia and Patagonia?
Patagonia doesn't make a lot of sense logistically.
One of the nice things about this idea is that the constituent states would be all broadly similar in size (with no one member hugely dominating everything!), and close geographically, with similar demographics and industries.
I guess Galicia might seem to meet those criteria as well, but I'm not as familiar with the region, and how Celtic the population there tend to view themselves?
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Patagonia doesn't make a lot of sense logistically.
One of the nice things about this idea is that the constituent states would be all broadly similar in size (with no one member hugely dominating everything!), and close geographically, with similar demographics and industries.
I guess Galicia might seem to meet those criteria as well, but I'm not as familiar with the region, and how Celtic the population there tend to view themselves?
Would it mean another rebrand for the City to Pato Celtic Druids
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Would it mean another rebrand for the City to Pato Celtic Druids
No
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
I'd be keen to see an independent Wales inside the UK if we could maintain free movement and trade, an Australia-NZ immigration system would also be an option. Devolution means over time we will drift away from other UK countries laws and this will cause problems in the justice system like it is starting to currently, more devolution will be needed to clear up laws and differences between us and England.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Wozza16
I'd be keen to see an independent Wales inside the UK if we could maintain free movement and trade, an Australia-NZ immigration system would also be an option. Devolution means over time we will drift away from other UK countries laws and this will cause problems in the justice system like it is starting to currently, more devolution will be needed to clear up laws and differences between us and England.
What would be our key exports to generate the much needed revenue too support our self independence and infrastructure, or will just be funded by high taxes?
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
What would be our key exports to generate the much needed revenue too support our self independence and infrastructure, or will just be funded by high taxes?
Depends what people would prefer, Sweden has tax rates of around 45% as it allows big investments and the trial of forward thinking ideas. They are often lauded by people around the world and that works for them. Key industries would need to be diversified to enable an even economy although as Cardiff has one of the fastest financial and service industry growth in the UK, it would become a focus point for the rest of the country.
As an already net exporter of electricity I would like to see a big investment (that will never come from Westminster) and the building of a renewable electricity industry across as many forms as possible. Electricity will become a huge industry with the growing demand from electric transport, household batteries etc. Along with other industries that would provide income (Water, tourism), would go a long way to providing a solid economy.
I'm sure there would be other industries that may emerge but that would be a start.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Wozza16
Depends what people would prefer, Sweden has tax rates of around 45% as it allows big investments and the trial of forward thinking ideas. They are often lauded by people around the world and that works for them. Key industries would need to be diversified to enable an even economy although as Cardiff has one of the fastest financial and service industry growth in the UK, it would become a focus point for the rest of the country.
As an already net exporter of electricity I would like to see a big investment (that will never come from Westminster) and the building of a renewable electricity industry across as many forms as possible. Electricity will become a huge industry with the growing demand from electric transport, household batteries etc. Along with other industries that would provide income (Water, tourism), would go a long way to providing a solid economy.
I'm sure there would be other industries that may emerge but that would be a start.
Sounds good, it would be a big leap with no guarantees but lots of risk . What worries me, even with a small percentage of the current devolved powers the Welsh Government are not that impressive, if given a choice think I'll stay safe within the umbrella of the UK
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Sounds good, it would be a big leap with no guarantees but lots of risk . What worries me, even with a small percentage of the current devolved powers the Welsh Government are not that impressive, if given a choice think I'll stay safe within the umbrella of the UK
I don't think the politicians and civil servants here are any less able or intelligent than their counterparts in Westminster or Brussels, but people are only ever going to act in the way that the system incentivises them to do.
In most democracies the people with power are only incentivised to be re-elected at the next election, and the people without power are incentivised to make them look bad.
This leads to short term thinking, and policies that sound convincing whether they will actually be beneficial in the long run or not.
First thing I would do would be to completely reform y senydd to try to remove these pressures and encourage actions that will benefit Wales in the long term.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
I don't think the politicians and civil servants here are any less able or intelligent than their counterparts in Westminster or Brussels, but people are only ever going to act in the way that the system incentivises them to do.
In most democracies the people with power are only incentivised to be re-elected at the next election, and the people without power are incentivised to make them look bad.
This leads to short term thinking, and policies that sound convincing whether they will actually be beneficial in the long run or not.
First thing I would do would be to completely reform y senydd to try to remove these pressures and encourage actions that will benefit Wales in the long term.
Good post.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Sounds good, it would be a big leap with no guarantees but lots of risk . What worries me, even with a small percentage of the current devolved powers the Welsh Government are not that impressive, if given a choice think I'll stay safe within the umbrella of the UK
I agree that they aren't doing very well and I believe that needs to change, firstly the complacent Welsh Labour need to go. My first choice is Plaid but I would even rather a Welsh Conservative party to gain power over Welsh Labour winning.
A lot of the devolved powers are limited and others need to be given to allow the Welsh Government to help build our economy, Westminster has shown it has no interest in building it. The third and final issue is that the Barnett formula is clearly flawed and limits what money WAG is given (again, something Westminster is happy about and in no rush to change).
So if I was given the choice, I would take independence, ideally still with free movement and trade.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I don't think the politicians and civil servants here are any less able or intelligent than their counterparts in Westminster or Brussels, but people are only ever going to act in the way that the system incentivises them to do.
In most democracies the people with power are only incentivised to be re-elected at the next election, and the people without power are incentivised to make them look bad.
This leads to short term thinking, and policies that sound convincing whether they will actually be beneficial in the long run or not.
First thing I would do would be to completely reform y senydd to try to remove these pressures and encourage actions that will benefit Wales in the long term.
Completely agree, not sure how easy that would be to do but it would be a great idea. There has been no major infrastructure investments in decades because the parties in power are too worried about the here and now. HS2 aside, which after all the spending because of Covid will hopefully be cancelled, otherwise Westminster can spend English tax on it and give us our share to be used for electrification and allow us to finally be the last country in Europe that can go from north to south without having to go into another country.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Wozza16
Completely agree, not sure how easy that would be to do but it would be a great idea. There has been no major infrastructure investments in decades because the parties in power are too worried about the here and now. HS2 aside, which after all the spending because of Covid will hopefully be cancelled, otherwise Westminster can spend English tax on it and give us our share to be used for electrification and allow us to finally be the last country in Europe that can go from north to south without having to go into another country.
A lot of what infrastructure there was seemed to be financed by Europe.
While Westminster pays for several multi billion pound projects in London at the same time
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
A lot of what infrastructure there was seemed to be financed by Europe.
While Westminster pays for several multi billion pound projects in London at the same time
Yip.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
trampie09
Yip.
Attachment 3775
That's the situation in England. This should be a national outrage.
I don't have the figures for Wales, but I'm willing to bet it's a lot closer to the figure for the north east than the south east.
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Attachment 3775
That's the situation in England. This should be a national outrage.
I don't have the figures for Wales, but I'm willing to bet it's a lot closer to the figure for the north east than the south east.
Look at the upside less transport movement cleaner environment less Corvid spread
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Look at the upside less transport movement cleaner environment less Corvid spread
You could argue that if the economy was less concentrated around London then the spread there would have been a lot less
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
You could argue that if the economy was less concentrated around London then the spread there would have been a lot less
Does that statistic include the major airports in the London area ?? as they are transport infrastructures , or is just trains , buses and road .
I guess more folk more spends is a reality however this looks a bit tilted to London and South East / and where is the South West ????
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Does that statistic include the major airports in the London area ?? as they are transport infrastructures , or is just trains , buses and road .
I guess more folk more spends is a reality however this looks a bit tilted to London and South East / and where is the South West ????
What public infrastructure spending has been done on the airport's recently though?
A bit tilted? Londoners get 518 times more spent on transport infrastructure per person than people in the north east
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Re: Should we give up on the old country ?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
What public infrastructure spending has been done on the airport's recently though?
A bit tilted? Londoners get 518 times more spent on transport infrastructure per person than people in the north east
It could be tilted for example if the crossrail expansion is in there of course if would be bigger , and it looks like its london and South West , if the Tories follow through with infrastructure builds in the North East it should change , they recognise this issue and campaigned on it , where does HS2 investment sit ,is it even included ,there's not enough data there for me ,I do accept the gap us wrong as does the Tories
