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Cardiff City will play in red next season
So who was it that broke the news on this message board back in 2012? Wasn't it their one and only post?
Who else on here knew before that message was posted?
What were your first thoughts on reading that post? My thoughts were someone was on a massive windup. That's never going to happen in a million years.
Last but not least, does that original thread still exist?
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Not sure who broke it on here, but didn’t the whispers break after the West Ham away game or did I dream that?
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Yes it was after the Wst Ham game. A certain member of the Trust who had been at the meeting where eveyone swore to keep silence until the club could do it officially didn't keep to his word.
Not that it mattered much in the end as the resistance would have been the same.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Yes it was after the Wst Ham game. A certain member of the Trust who had been at the meeting where eveyone swore to keep silence until the club could do it officially didn't keep to his word.
This is not true.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
I remember that post. First I'd heard about it. My initial reaction was the same as yours VC.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
This is not true.
I bow to your greater knowledge. I was told after the game that it was Vince Alm who told certain people and it spread like wildfire. I'm more than happy to be corrected. But as I said, whoever it was in the long term it didn't makea lot of difference to the reaction.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Palace away sat next to you Dave on the way home.
That's when I knew
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
I heard about it a while before it became public, not going to say who told me, but I guess it probably originated from the same source. My feeling was, and always has been, that it's Tan's club as owner and he can do what he wants to with it, and fans can decide whether they like it or not.
I never went to a home game while they played in red.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
I remember hearing about it on the bus home after the West Ham away playoff, thought it was bullshit at first then people like splott parker started saying it, and I consider him many terrible things but a bullshitter and drama lover are not two of them
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Heart just sank reading the thread title!!
That was a horrible time.
Hopefully some of the bonds that were broken have been fixed a bit.
Stupid and Needless.
I wonder if it would have happened if we beat Blackpool?
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
It was a prominent poster on this board using a pseudonym if I remember correctly
He no longer posts
It spread pretty quickly anyway
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
It was Vincent Tan who obviously first broke the news, and thats basically all that matters.
At the time there was still an unhealthy amount of what were comically known as “ the inner circle”. A group of sad individuals who were all just excess baggage left over from the Hammam era.
A raggle taggle bunch of desperados who’d have done anything at the time to be the “in the know” top dog.
Whether or not you like or forgive Tan for his pathetic rebrand shambles, one thing I'm grateful for, is it heralded the end for this bunch of jokers.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
I remember hearing about it on the bus home after the West Ham away playoff, thought it was bullshit at first then people like splott parker started saying it, and I consider him many terrible things but a bullshitter and drama lover are not two of them
This is what I remember. I wasn't there. But that's what I remember seeing on here: "the bus home from West Ham". That whole episode really affected me. I was so shocked by how many fans just folded and went along with it. We also lost a lot of loyal and active fans. Many of whom never came back. There were people on here saying "you won't be missed". I miss them. Thankfully, it's a distant memory now. But just recently, seeing clips of Whitts, it still shocked me to see that we were playing home games in red. Especially against teams in blue. So weird.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
It was Vincent Tan who obviously first broke the news, and thats basically all that matters.
At the time there was still an unhealthy amount of what were comically known as “ the inner circle”. A group of sad individuals who were all just excess baggage left over from the Hammam era.
A raggle taggle bunch of desperados who’d have done anything at the time to be the “in the know” top dog.
Whether or not you like or forgive Tan for his pathetic rebrand shambles, one thing I'm grateful for, is it heralded the end for this bunch of jokers.
Telling someone what you want and what will happen because you're rich and no one can stop you, is not the same as "breaking the news".
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
NYC not everyone went with it as you labelled it
a dark day in the history of our club
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOZZER2
NYC not everyone went with it as you labelled it
a dark day in the history of our club
I appreciate that. But it was shocking to me how many did. At least for the first two seasons. The backlash didn't really start until we were relegated.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
I went along with it as I’d had my own debts and thought **** it I’d someone offered to paint my house red I’d take the money.
Strange equivalence looking back,I was in the middle of a relationship breakdown and changing job so my priorities were elsewhere.
Looking back it was a bollocks of a time, apologies to those who stood their ground (quite rightfully) and if I come out with some crap about getting over it 👍
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
Telling someone what you want and what will happen because you're rich and no one can stop you, is not the same as "breaking the news".
Errr. I think you’ll find it is.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
I remember hearing about it on the bus home after the West Ham away playoff, thought it was bullshit at first then people like splott parker started saying it, and I consider him many terrible things but a bullshitter and drama lover are not two of them
Thank you very much Delmi and although I’ve won the lottery and am now writing a gossip column for Closer magazine I’ve not changed:thumbup:
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
If i owned the club id be playing myself.
Things change it happens, I'd prefer it not to happen but i just dont think it bothered me like some people.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
I bow to your greater knowledge. I was told after the game that it was Vince Alm who told certain people and it spread like wildfire. I'm more than happy to be corrected. But as I said, whoever it was in the long term it didn't make a lot of difference to the reaction.
In your initial post you said: "A certain member of the Trust who had been at the meeting where everyone swore to keep silence until the club could do it officially didn't keep to his word."
I don't know what meeting you're referring to, but nobody from the Trust was involved. If memory serves, some of the officials from the Supporters' Club got to know about the re-brand before anyone else.
The first I heard of it was on the bus travelling home from the West Ham game. I thought it was a wind-up. Indeed, I actually threatened to stop the bus and chuck Heathblue off if he kept talking about what seemed to be a load of nonsense. However, shortly before we arrived home I got a text from a friend who was very well-connected at the club and he told me that while not all of the post that had appeared on here was true, most of it was. My heart sank.
The following morning I got a call from stadium manager Wayne Nash asking me to attend an urgent meeting with club officials later that day. That's when things got real. Red shirts, no Bluebird on the badge, fire and passion, various promises which never came to fruition, all that bollocks. Strange times indeed.
Three key elements of the re-brand 'package' were Langston to be paid off within days (that went well), a debt-free club (that went well) and a new training ground (whatever happened to that?).
Time is a great healer and the fact that Tan barely shows his face at the club anymore is a plus-point, but plenty of the fans who stopped going to games due to the re-brand have never returned (including some of this board's best contributors), while others who were previously staunch supporters no longer feel the same about the club.
For me, the worst aspect of the re-brand and the reason why I'll never be able to forgive Tan for what he did is that a number of good friends have gone to their graves in recent years having either lost their love for Cardiff City completely or having lost much of their enthusiasm for the club. These were all people I met and became friends with because of the football, and who had previously been staunch supporters for most of their lives. That's something that can never be undone.
The whole thing was so completely and utterly pointless, but I guess we can look back at it as an experience and it certainly changed a lot of lives, in many cases for the better.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
In your initial post you said: "A certain member of the Trust who had been at the meeting where everyone swore to keep silence until the club could do it officially didn't keep to his word."
I don't know what meeting you're referring to, but nobody from the Trust was involved. If memory serves, some of the officials from the Supporters' Club got to know about the re-brand before anyone else.
The first I heard of it was on the bus travelling home from the West Ham game. I thought it was a wind-up. Indeed, I actually threatened to stop the bus and chuck Heathblue off if he kept talking about what seemed to be a load of nonsense. However, shortly before we arrived home I got a text from a friend who was very well-connected at the club and he told me that while not all of the post that had appeared on here was true, most of it was. My heart sank.
The following morning I got a call from stadium manager Wayne Nash asking me to attend an urgent meeting with club officials later that day. That's when things got real. Red shirts, no Bluebird on the badge, fire and passion, various promises which never came to fruition, all that bollocks. Strange times indeed.
Three key elements of the re-brand 'package' were Langston to be paid off within days (that went well), a debt-free club (that went well) and a new training ground (whatever happened to that?).
Time is a great healer and the fact that Tan barely shows his face at the club anymore is a plus-point, but plenty of the fans who stopped going to games due to the re-brand have never returned (including some of this board's best contributors), while others who were previously staunch supporters no longer feel the same about the club.
For me, the worst aspect of the re-brand and the reason why I'll never be able to forgive Tan for what he did is that a number of good friends have gone to their graves in recent years having either lost their love for Cardiff City completely or having lost much of their enthusiasm for the club. These were all people I met and became friends with because of the football, and who had previously been staunch supporters for most of their lives. That's something that can never be undone.
The whole thing was so completely and utterly pointless, but I guess we can look back at it as an experience and it certainly changed a lot of lives, in many cases for the better.
I knew I had it, and have just found the post in question,
It was posted on may 7th 2012 at 18:49, obviously I would not repost it.
I used to save lots of the stuff around this time and have a directory full of ccmb & **** posts that i considered controversial at the time. We had some right beauties posting :hehe:
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wash DC Blue
Heart just sank reading the thread title!!
That was a horrible time.
Hopefully some of the bonds that were broken have been fixed a bit.
Stupid and Needless.
I wonder if it would have happened if we beat Blackpool?
I see the what would have happened if wed beaten Blackpool mentioned a lot.
Its an interesting one. The consensus seems to be wed have done well. Personally I think Dave Jones and his 442 and a very weak central midfield would have seen us relegated with a very low points total.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mazadona10
If i owned the club id be playing myself.
Things change it happens, I'd prefer it not to happen but i just dont think it bothered me like some people.
I seem to recall that first post appearing shortly after the West Ham play off game had finished. I didn’t go to the game, and watched it at home. I remember being glued to the thread through the evening as it caught fire.
Often wondered who posted it. From memory, it was well written, which ruled out a lot of the more well known fans at the time. :D
If I had to put my money on it- it would have been DrPop or TVB (who could have pre prepared the post, before submitting when they got back in the coach). Or- if some one more connected with the club, probably Michael Issacs, ( who stood to lose out somewhat if memory serves)
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
I see the what would have happened if wed beaten Blackpool mentioned a lot.
Its an interesting one. The consensus seems to be wed have done well. Personally I think Dave Jones and his 442 and a very weak central midfield would have seen us relegated with a very low points total.
Birmingham, Blackpool and West Ham went down the following season. That's two big clubs, and the West Ham team on paper was strong. Brum and Blackpool both got to 39 points.
So yeah, I think we would have found it a struggle.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Birmingham, Blackpool and West Ham went down the following season. That's two big clubs, and the West Ham team on paper was strong. Brum and Blackpool both got to 39 points.
So yeah, I think we would have found it a struggle.
Very possibly. When DJ was at Southampton they'd surprise teams and have a good run before falling apart for awhile (it's the DJ way). They stayed up though. Part of Tan's nonsense was that we needed the luck of the red to get promoted but that would've been negated by beating Blackpool. Of course he could've found some other bunch of bollocks to justify his actions.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
In your initial post you said: "A certain member of the Trust who had been at the meeting where everyone swore to keep silence until the club could do it officially didn't keep to his word."
I don't know what meeting you're referring to, but nobody from the Trust was involved. If memory serves, some of the officials from the Supporters' Club got to know about the re-brand before anyone else.
The first I heard of it was on the bus travelling home from the West Ham game. I thought it was a wind-up. Indeed, I actually threatened to stop the bus and chuck Heathblue off if he kept talking about what seemed to be a load of nonsense. However, shortly before we arrived home I got a text from a friend who was very well-connected at the club and he told me that while not all of the post that had appeared on here was true, most of it was. My heart sank.
The following morning I got a call from stadium manager Wayne Nash asking me to attend an urgent meeting with club officials later that day. That's when things got real. Red shirts, no Bluebird on the badge, fire and passion, various promises which never came to fruition, all that bollocks. Strange times indeed.
Three key elements of the re-brand 'package' were Langston to be paid off within days (that went well), a debt-free club (that went well) and a new training ground (whatever happened to that?).
Time is a great healer and the fact that Tan barely shows his face at the club anymore is a plus-point, but plenty of the fans who stopped going to games due to the re-brand have never returned (including some of this board's best contributors), while others who were previously staunch supporters no longer feel the same about the club.
For me, the worst aspect of the re-brand and the reason why I'll never be able to forgive Tan for what he did is that a number of good friends have gone to their graves in recent years having either lost their love for Cardiff City completely or having lost much of their enthusiasm for the club. These were all people I met and became friends with because of the football, and who had previously been staunch supporters for most of their lives. That's something that can never be undone.
The whole thing was so completely and utterly pointless, but I guess we can look back at it as an experience and it certainly changed a lot of lives, in many cases for the better.
Your last 2 paragraphs are really well said 👍
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
It was a bad time , this virus is far worse but I terms of something that at the time and for many still does , affect so much of our lives , it was awful
All those trips getting up at silly o clock , those replica shirts , bluebird pin badges given a knowing nod from a fellow bluebird , standing in the pissing wet , getting to Wembley, friendships built etc etc
Then that news which divided the club , let to people I thought were like me saying it's his club , he can do what he wants , if he gets us to the premiership , it's only a badge , it's only a colour
Then the aftermath of threats, intimidation
And then the decision , which I fully respect , to say that's it , I am done
It's a long time ago now and he has admitted it was a mistake
But I wish he would get rid of that silly little dragon at the bottom of the badge , it's like hes apologising but still wants to prove a point
A sort of soft handshake
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Like many others, I was at the West-ham game, I believe news broke just on the final whistle, as I was still in the stadium walking towards the bus and the gossip started spreading. I think It was when on the bus I came onto here and read the post.
I had a different user name then, but I was massively against it, I honestly wanted league 2 football over a promotion in red.
I attended Bluebirds Unite meetings, and on the night of the red scarfs I remember trying to help organise a protest on here and Facebook where we would take a scarf and throw it on the pitch at 19mins
I had thousands of followers on the Facebook group and felt so positive that it was going to be a massive moment, a visual display of the silent majority rebelling against the red, i thought it would be a massive domino effect, and even hoped the game would have to be paused to clear the pitch, making the impact even greater.
At 19 mins I was the only one in the grandstand I recall walking towards the front, i threw it on looked around to see 2-3 people in the Canton do the same, I stood there for a second and some guy in the first row called me a twat.
That was my last game as a die hard, up till then Cardiff was my life, I would never miss a game home or away, family holidays would be planned around pre-season tours, it meant so much to me and I lost it.
Looking back it was probably a good thing, I had previously made decisions because of Cardiff like to go to University in Cardiff just because of the footy, so never got to experience a proper uni moving away life ect.
after that season, i went 3 years without a season ticket, in that time I moved to the USA for 1 year, traveled the world for 6 months with friends. and did 2 working ski seasons.
I am now back and a season ticket holder, purely because of Neil Warnock, and enjoy attending
but It still hurts never having that unmitigated feeling of connection again with my local club, like loosing faith in a religion, must be a horrible thing.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
It's a long time ago now and he has admitted it was a mistake
To my knowledge, he has never admitted it was a mistake and he's never apologised for it either.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
To my knowledge, he has never admitted it was a mistake and he's never apologised for it either.
Didn't he say that his mother had made him see the error of his ways, or something similar? Or at least alluded to something like that happening
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
To my knowledge, he has never admitted it was a mistake and he's never apologised for it either.
A lot of people dont like admitting they made a mistake , I seem to remember tan saying he had listened to his mother and she said he should change back or something like that
I am afraid that's as good as we will get
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris lee
Like many others, I was at the West-ham game, I believe news broke just on the final whistle, as I was still in the stadium walking towards the bus and the gossip started spreading. I think It was when on the bus I came onto here and read the post.
I had a different user name then, but I was massively against it, I honestly wanted league 2 football over a promotion in red.
I attended Bluebirds Unite meetings, and on the night of the red scarfs I remember trying to help organise a protest on here and Facebook where we would take a scarf and throw it on the pitch at 19mins
I had thousands of followers on the Facebook group and felt so positive that it was going to be a massive moment, a visual display of the silent majority rebelling against the red, i thought it would be a massive domino effect, and even hoped the game would have to be paused to clear the pitch, making the impact even greater.
At 19 mins I was the only one in the grandstand I recall walking towards the front, i threw it on looked around to see 2-3 people in the Canton do the same, I stood there for a second and some guy in the first row called me a twat.
That was my last game as a die hard, up till then Cardiff was my life, I would never miss a game home or away, family holidays would be planned around pre-season tours, it meant so much to me and I lost it.
Looking back it was probably a good thing, I had previously made decisions because of Cardiff like to go to University in Cardiff just because of the footy, so never got to experience a proper uni moving away life ect.
after that season, i went 3 years without a season ticket, in that time I moved to the USA for 1 year, traveled the world for 6 months with friends. and did 2 working ski seasons.
I am now back and a season ticket holder, purely because of Neil Warnock, and enjoy attending
but It still hurts never having that unmitigated feeling of connection again with my local club, like loosing faith in a religion, must be a horrible thing.
Do you remember the front cover of the western mail with that formless idiot holding his red scarf high above his head ?
Apparently after the game a lot of the toilets were blocked with red scarves and in the ninian stand toilets a pile of them were collected and set on fire
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
In your initial post you said: "A certain member of the Trust who had been at the meeting where everyone swore to keep silence until the club could do it officially didn't keep to his word."
I don't know what meeting you're referring to, but nobody from the Trust was involved. If memory serves, some of the officials from the Supporters' Club got to know about the re-brand before anyone else.
The first I heard of it was on the bus travelling home from the West Ham game. I thought it was a wind-up. Indeed, I actually threatened to stop the bus and chuck Heathblue off if he kept talking about what seemed to be a load of nonsense. However, shortly before we arrived home I got a text from a friend who was very well-connected at the club and he told me that while not all of the post that had appeared on here was true, most of it was. My heart sank.
The following morning I got a call from stadium manager Wayne Nash asking me to attend an urgent meeting with club officials later that day. That's when things got real. Red shirts, no Bluebird on the badge, fire and passion, various promises which never came to fruition, all that bollocks. Strange times indeed.
Three key elements of the re-brand 'package' were Langston to be paid off within days (that went well), a debt-free club (that went well) and a new training ground (whatever happened to that?).
Time is a great healer and the fact that Tan barely shows his face at the club anymore is a plus-point, but plenty of the fans who stopped going to games due to the re-brand have never returned (including some of this board's best contributors), while others who were previously staunch supporters no longer feel the same about the club.
For me, the worst aspect of the re-brand and the reason why I'll never be able to forgive Tan for what he did is that a number of good friends have gone to their graves in recent years having either lost their love for Cardiff City completely or having lost much of their enthusiasm for the club. These were all people I met and became friends with because of the football, and who had previously been staunch supporters for most of their lives. That's something that can never be undone.
The whole thing was so completely and utterly pointless, but I guess we can look back at it as an experience and it certainly changed a lot of lives, in many cases for the better.
Well said Dave.
The info.was leaked by a prominent member of the Supporters Club who had been told ahead of that meeting “ in the strictest confidence”. It was certainly nothing to do with the Trust who were represented by a couple of us at that meeting.
A few points still stick with me regarding that meeting.
1. The senior management of the club who ran the meeting were very embarrassed when admitting when pressed that there was no cogent reason for the changes planned other than it was the whim of the man putting his money in- Vincent Tan.They also showed the proposed new club badge whic looked like it had been devised by a 7 year old.Most of those who ran the meeting were subsequently eased out of the club by the new owner.
2. There was at least one “plant” in the invited audience in a vain attempt to support the proposal. This was then followed up by others being encouraged by the club to dissuade fans from objecting to the plan. They did so by a series of threats of violence at meetings and elsewhere.
3. It took years to minimise/ reverse a lot of the damage done to the club and it’s fans by the ridiculous and unnecessary rebranding decision.Although the memory of it has dimmed over time, it will never completely go away as a dark moment in the club’s history.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
It was a bad time , this virus is far worse but I terms of something that at the time and for many still does , affect so much of our lives , it was awful
All those trips getting up at silly o clock , those replica shirts , bluebird pin badges given a knowing nod from a fellow bluebird , standing in the pissing wet , getting to Wembley, friendships built etc etc
Then that news which divided the club , let to people I thought were like me saying it's his club , he can do what he wants , if he gets us to the premiership , it's only a badge , it's only a colour
Then the aftermath of threats, intimidation
And then the decision , which I fully respect , to say that's it , I am done
It's a long time ago now and he has admitted it was a mistake
But I wish he would get rid of that silly little dragon at the bottom of the badge , it's like hes apologising but still wants to prove a point
A sort of soft handshake
I find it quite spiteful. And disrespectful. When we played in red with the dragon badge it was "Fire and Passion". Chinese dragons don't even breathe fire. More of a "**** you" than a soft handshake if you ask me.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Since62
Well said Dave.
The info.was leaked by a prominent member of the Supporters Club who had been told ahead of that meeting “ in the strictest confidence”. It was certainly nothing to do with the Trust who were represented by a couple of us at that meeting.
A few points still stick with me regarding that meeting.
1. The senior management of the club who ran the meeting were very embarrassed when admitting when pressed that there was no cogent reason for the changes planned other than it was the whim of the man putting his money in- Vincent Tan.They also showed the proposed new club badge whic looked like it had been devised by a 7 year old.Most of those who ran the meeting were subsequently eased out of the club by the new owner.
2. There was at least one “plant” in the invited audience in a vain attempt to support the proposal. This was then followed up by others being encouraged by the club to dissuade fans from objecting to the plan. They did so by a series of threats of violence at meetings and elsewhere.
3. It took years to minimise/ reverse a lot of the damage done to the club and it’s fans by the ridiculous and unnecessary rebranding decision.Although the memory of it has dimmed over time, it will never completely go away as a dark moment in the club’s history.
Oh there were lots of threats of violence
I had several threatening phonecalls
And the meeting at the muni was nasty
Although those doing the threatening failed to turn up at the next meeting at the corporation when half of the docks and grangetown turned out to provide unofficial security allowing people to speak out against the rebranding
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Errr. I think you’ll find it is.
It isn't. Telling someone that will later become public behind closed doors and it leaking out through various sources is the exact opposite of breaking the news.
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Oh there were lots of threats of violence
I had several threatening phonecalls
And the meeting at the muni was nasty
Although those doing the threatening failed to turn up at the next meeting at the corporation when half of the docks and grangetown turned out to provide unofficial security allowing people to speak out against the rebranding
Who else other than ‘big gwyn ‘ (does he even still follow City?!) was doing the threatening??
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stevebrickman
Who else other than ‘big gwyn ‘ (does he even still follow City?!) was doing the threatening??
It wasnt big gwyn who threatened me but it was someone with a south wales valleys accent , he didnt leave his name on my answering machine , which surprised me
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Re: Cardiff City will play in red next season
Looks like the actual thread has gone.
But the original post is included in a news article I did at the time.
http://www.cardiffcity-mad.co.uk/new...28/index.shtml