Showing on Sky now, what a team that was! Still can’t believe what happened at Wembley
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Showing on Sky now, what a team that was! Still can’t believe what happened at Wembley
Some of the football being played by us in this game is as good or better than anything we've played in the following 10 years :facepalm:
How on earth was that 10 years ago? That's gone bloody quick
What an atmosphere in the ground.
Gone frighteningly quick! Would have loved to seen how we would haveQuote:
Originally Posted by Der Kaiser
done in the Premier League under Dave Jones.
I never seen that game on tv....couldn’t face it at the time and then forgot about it. Was it a noisy one I can’t recall. Blackpool fans only had one chant if I recall? Probably because most of them followed other clubs and were just there for the day out
It’s the semi not the final they were showingQuote:
Originally Posted by goats
That was great entertainment. A brilliant contest, really exciting stuff.
There was so much I'd forgotten about that game - the fact that both of City's goals should have been ruled out for offside, Hudson's horrible own goal, the superb efforts from Bothroyd and Whittingham that both crashed against the bar, Marshall almost gifting the game to Leicester in the dying moments of normal time, his brilliant save from Howard in extra time, the fact it was Waghorn who missed the final penalty, not Kermogant, etc.
Some of the football City played in that game, particularly during the first half, was just sensational. Has a City team ever looked as good as that in an attacking sense during the decade that has passed since?
The midfield and attacking line-up that day was:
Whittingham, McPhail, Ledley and Burke across the midfield; Bothroyd and Chopra up front.
The top scorers that season (including the play-off games) were Whittingham (22), Chopra (18), Bothroyd (11) and Burke (9).
The obvious problem was a lack of strength in depth. McCormack was a decent option and Rae certainly did a job, but the squad was very light apart from them and the defence wasn't especially reliable.
The problem was a midfield 2 which could be overwhelmed and a 442 highly reliant on Jay Bothroyd as we always had the hit it to him option when our central midfield couldn't get in the game.
All exploited in the final.
To think that Kelvin feckin Etuhu came on and not McCormack for Bothroyd just sums Dave Jones his 442 and big man little man attack.
Also, let's not forget that we lost 3-2 at home to Leicester. And we finished 4th losing 14 games, 15 points from automatic promotion. But yes, it was a good team and the football was entertaining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
That's an interesting observation. That midfield wouldn't last 5 minutes in the Championship nowadays, very lightweight but excellent technically. Jones usually went with one battler in the middle, like Rae, Olofinjana etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
In terms of personnel, I thought our defence was regularly one of the better ones in the division. That midfield 4 was never going to offer much assistance in a defensive way. Given Jones was a centre back in his playing days I'm surprised we did look capable of conceding as many as we did. To my surprise, Russell Slade's only full season in charge saw us with a better defensive record than any season under Jones. I know what side I'd rather watch, but its talent was offset by that fragility.
So, assuming everybody's fit and at the top of their form, who in City's current team would you put in the midfield ahead of Whittingham, McPhail, Ledley and Burke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
The individual ability of our defence was never the issue it was always the way we were set up. That season we had Hudson, Gyepes and Gerrad as centre back options and Quinn, McNaughton, Capaldi, Blake and Matthews at full back, the problem was always Jones' inflexibility which was laid bare in the playoff final when he brought on Etuhu for the injured Bothroyd. Beyond McPhail and Whittingham only Rae could really do a job in midfield and the only midfielder on the bench in the final was Aaron Wildig!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I think if we'd had a player like Gunnarsson at that time we'd have gone up
I think injuries were also an issue in defensive terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
If you look at the central defensive appearances list for that season, Gerrard led the way with 39 appearances. Hudson was next with 26, then Gypes with 16, while the central defensive partnership for all of the play-off games was Hudson and Blake. It was mentioned in commentary that Hudson had recently returned from a lengthy injury spell.
Hoilett instead of Burke. Better scorer and creator and better defensively as well. Maybe Vaulks or Bacuna instead of Ledley, not that either are better players than Ledley was back then. It's not as easy as just saying is x better than y - it's about having the right blend and balance. Arguably our best midfield under Jones was the Scimeca/McPhail partnership, when Scimeca went on an amazing run of form as a box to box midfielder, putting in the effort to help McPhail be able to use his superb left foot to spray passes about.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Ledley was quite an adventurous midfielder with a good touch when he was a youngster, but he wasn't the strongest. The Joe Ledley that played in Euro 2016 was a completely different midfielder, one who had become more of a battler, would run all day but didn't venture forward often.
I wouldnt have a 2 man central midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
However if forced to I would without doubt put Ralls in for Mcphail.
Id also prefer Bacuna and Vaulks before Mcphail.
Hoillet at his best is a better footballer than Burke.
Overall I might agree with you, but the Burke of 2009/10 was just a bit better than anything I've seen of Hoilett over a period of time. Certainly more consistent. I'd say the Burke of 2009/10 and the Hoilett of 2017/18 would be pretty hard to split.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I find that genuinely incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
I agree the Scimeca/McPhail partnership was very effective both skilled individuals, definitely Holiet much rounded player than Burke ,I always thought Ledley was overrated .Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Me too !Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
As talented as that midfield were, they were also quite lightweight, we needed an enforcer type (I know we had gavin rae:hehe:)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
But I mean a proper one a bit like kav or gunners. DJ always seemed to have a really good starting 11, a few injuries and we were done.
It is hard to believe isn't it, and puts the absolutely awful 'style' of football that we have been playing for the last few years into stark contrast?Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Kaiser
:frown:
Im pretty sure Gerrard was out injured and Hudson who had been injured came back in.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
He didnt have the best of games.
Me as well, it still astounds me how little credit/recognition McPhail gets, he was an outstanding footballer.Quote:
Originally Posted by billy.ronson
If Ricky Scimeca had stayed I believe Jones would have got s over the line. He was quality..Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
When Burke is at his worst? Or does he get to be at his best too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
didn't realise till now that Chops was offside when he won the pen.
But we should have had a pen later on.
Swings and roundabouts.
If we had played like that for the whole final I think we'd have beaten Blackpool...
or if Bothroyd hadn't gone off injured...
or if...
Both at their best I believe Hoillet is the better all round footballer.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
Not much in it though.
And me.Quote:
Originally Posted by billy.ronson
Same.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
In my opinion, a squad with the 09/10 team's ability and the current lots attitude would win promotion from the Championship most seasons. The 09/10 side was a bit flat track bullyish though. While it's difficult to imagine the 19/20 squad going 4-0 up in any game, I'm certain that they wouldn't end up drawing it like the side from ten years ago did against the team which finished bottom of the league that year when they went from four up at Peterborough to four all, they also lost at home to relegated Plymouth.
McPhail had one of the best footballing minds of all the players I've seen over the years down the City. Rarely chose the wrong option and one of those players who was always able to create a little bit extra time and space for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbluejay
Better than any of the current squad in that position.
Exactly. The 14 losses illustrate that perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Peterborough like to turn us over.
When they got relegated and Malkys team won the Championship they did the double over us.
The 4 all game was pathetic though.
Wasn't it you who coined that phrase for that side - flat track bullies?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Your post about that midfield 4 got me thinking. It looked quite lightweight but creative. That season that midfield 4 played together 5 times in the league, though McPhail went off injured early in one of those. We won all 4 of those where the 4 played at least a full first half.
Reading (a) W 1-0
Coventry (h) W 2-0
Sheff Utd (a) W 4-3
QPR (a) W 1-0
Leicester (a) W 1-0
Leicester (h) L 2-3
Blackpool (n) L 2-3
5 wins out of 7 was pretty decent. Interesting that we kept 4 clean sheets but conceded 3 in each of the other 3. 13 goals scored in 7 games but 9 conceded wasn't so good.
It would have been interesting had Jones continued with that. McPhail's injuries that season prevented that, of course, but it might have been a decent ploy to put Rae or another defensive midfielder in when we played a midfield 5 and dropped Chopra.
With Bothroyd injured we should have gone with 3 central midfielders in that final.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
McCormack could have been in the line up wide along with Burke. Whitts Mcphail Ledley woud still have been a bit too lightweight for Blackpools 3 but im sure would have been better than what happened in the final.
Jones was too one dimensional.
A horrible day that final.
I've always avoided looking at that final for obvious reasons. What is amazing is that he picked a pretty fluid, attacking midfield of players who were all comfortable on the ball and were good passers, yet chose to launch long balls out of defence because this midfield was outnumbered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
If someone with a bit of nous could have taken over that side after that playoff defeat, we'd have won automatic the following season with the players we had.
Absolutely this ^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Yes we played some good stuff at times and had good players but our team performances and the performances of those of the players were either very good or very average.
I've heard many waxing lyrical about DJ's wonderful football, but to achieve success in football you need more than one strategy.
Holloway did a job on Jones in that final, we were overrun in MF.
Of course the team had its flaws and of course the manager had his flaws, but one thing that I think rarely gets acknowledged when these sorts of conversations take place is just how cheaply the side was put together, both at the time and in relative terms by comparison to recent squads.Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAdder
Watching that game again today was a genuine pleasure. I'd never seen anything but brief highlights of it before. To watch the whole 90 minutes, extra time and penalties was great fun. As I've already said earlier in the thread, some of the team's control, passing, speed of movement and speed of thought was truly brilliant by comparison to what we've got used to seeing from City in recent years. Bothroyd was especially good, but the likes of Chopra, Burke, Whittingham and McPhail also looked truly outstanding by Championship standards. And that was during a game the side lost 3-2!
I think and correct me if I am wrong , that we had a massive wage bill under Jones and he , possibly as much as warnock , preferred older experienced players to youth . We didn't make many big money signings under Jones but considering our income we were shelling out wages well above what was coming in .Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman