Remember when we were a small club ?

An FA cup tie against Ispwich or QPR was seen as a big game

As a youngster I would enter the bob bank from the canton end to see how many these big clubs had brought

It was never very many and our lot would spend the afternoon praying for a draw so we could travel away and show em what away support was

4000 down to QPR on a Tuesday night

Now if we drew either in the FAcup we would probably take 500

Don't know if that's the decline of the FA Cup or that now we are an established second tier side we have bigger fish to fry

Do i remember? No because it was never the case. I dont remember anyone ever admitting we were small. I remember lots of chat about being a sleeping giant and that our proper place was at least tier 2, and if we could get back there wed easily get 40k home attendances.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

Do i remember? No because it was never the case. I dont remember anyone ever admitting we were small. I remember lots of chat about being a sleeping giant and that our proper place was at least tier 2, and if we could get back there wed easily get 40k home attendances.

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Even when we were a yo yo club between the old second and third divisions in the seventies and eighties we were poorly supported

Even Barnsley spent longer in the old division two than us

When we were relegated to the old fourth division we really were a small club , teams like Bristol City and Plymouth were a notch higher

It took us 17 years to get back into the second tier of English football

When we finally were promoted we got a crowd of 16000 in a ground that held 22 thousand

Thats not a sleeping giant

We are about the place we should be , if we get promoted we won't need a bigger ground

We are no longer a yo yo club in the basement but we are certainly never going to be a big club

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

Do i remember? No because it was never the case. I dont remember anyone ever admitting we were small. I remember lots of chat about being a sleeping giant and that our proper place was at least tier 2, and if we could get back there wed easily get 40k home attendances.

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The 'delusions of grandeur' years.

I miss them. City fans talking on radio phone about the conspiracy of the Welsh media and the potential to be up there crowd wise with Man United and Liverpool.

I always thought they needed to lay off the LSD.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

The 'delusions of grandeur' years.

I miss them. City fans talking on radio phone about the conspiracy of the Welsh media and the potential to be up there crowd wise with Man United and Liverpool.

I always thought they needed to lay off the LSD.

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The rugby media have always been a problem but a crap product and welsh idiots supporting English teams have done it for us

A mate of mines old man was born in Birmingham, big Birmingham City fan , by the time he was in his forties him and his son and daughter were cardiff sewson ticket holders

If he can move down here and bring up his kids to support cardiff , the locals supporting man united and bringing their kids up to support their team instead of cardiff are part of the problem and can naff off

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The rugby media have always been a problem but a crap product and welsh idiots supporting English teams have done it for us

A mate of mines old man was born in Birmingham, big Birmingham City fan , by the time he was in his forties him and his son and daughter were cardiff sewson ticket holders

If he can move down here and bring up his kids to support cardiff , the locals supporting man united and bringing their kids up to support their team instead of cardiff are part of the problem and can naff off

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Here you go again...

Its football, it's an industry. People choose their products as they wish to. Theres no law saying fans should support their local club.

Citys attendances the last ten years are higher average now than they were ever been in my lifetime. I'll say local interest and support for City has also improved greatly in comparison to the 80s and 90s.

Just not being in the 1st or 2nd rounds of the FAcup was a sign that we were no longer a small club.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Here you go again...

Its football, it's an industry. People choose their products as they wish to. Theres no law saying fans should support their local club.

Citys attendances the last ten years are higher average now than they were ever been in my lifetime. I'll say local interest and support for City has also improved greatly in comparison to the 80s and 90s.

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People can choose their products if they want but in my opinion someone living in South wales and supporting Liverpool and United are arses

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Just not being in the 1st or 2nd rounds of the FAcup was a sign that we were no longer a small club.

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Indeed , we were a medium sized club

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

People can choose their products if they want but in my opinion someone living in South wales and supporting Liverpool and United are arses

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I'm not sure why it winds you up so much?

It's always been this way. It's not just evident in South Wales, the big two have supporters/fans/plastics all over the UK. I'm not even sure it even affects Citys crowds at all?

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

I'm not sure why it winds you up so much?

It's always been this way. It's not just evident in South Wales, the big two have supporters/fans/plastics all over the UK. I'm not even sure it even affects Citys crowds at all?

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South wales is full of fake liverpool and man united fans , its one of the worst areas in the country for it

It of course affects our crowds , in a big way

There are coachloads of fans every Saturday afternoon leaving South wales to watch Liverpool, man united , arsenal , Chelsea etc

And thats not counting the fans that go by car and train

People just don't get behind cardiff city in South wales unless we reach a cup final or the premier league but they are happy to watch man united in the flesh or since the arrival of sky , in the pub or at home

You may not like that but its a fact

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

South wales is full of fake liverpool and man united fans , its one of the worst areas in the country for it

It of course affects our crowds , in a big way

There are coachloads of fans every Saturday afternoon leaving South wales to watch Liverpool, man united , arsenal , Chelsea etc

And thats not counting the fans that go by car and train

People just don't get behind cardiff city in South wales unless we reach a cup final or the premier league but they are happy to watch man united in the flesh or since the arrival of sky , in the pub or at home

You may not like that but its a fact

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Actually no, you're facts are more of an observation or anecdote.

Citys average crowd 1991 was less than 3000.

Since 2010 they've consistently got more than 20000.

Those stats suggest the South Wales public are more behind City than they ever have been in my life time?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

South wales is full of fake liverpool and man united fans , its one of the worst areas in the country for it

It of course affects our crowds , in a big way

There are coachloads of fans every Saturday afternoon leaving South wales to watch Liverpool, man united , arsenal , Chelsea etc

And thats not counting the fans that go by car and train

People just don't get behind cardiff city in South wales unless we reach a cup final or the premier league but they are happy to watch man united in the flesh or since the arrival of sky , in the pub or at home

You may not like that but its a fact

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People can support who they want. You don’t support your local club.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

An FA cup tie against Ispwich or QPR was seen as a big game

As a youngster I would enter the bob bank from the canton end to see how many these big clubs had brought

It was never very many and our lot would spend the afternoon praying for a draw so we could travel away and show em what away support was

4000 down to QPR on a Tuesday night

Now if we drew either in the FAcup we would probably take 500

Don't know if that's the decline of the FA Cup or that now we are an established second tier side we have bigger fish to fry

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I recall walking in to the BB like you when I started going properly 87/88.....always just the odd coach full unless it was wolves or Bolton back then. First time I remember thinking wow was Bristol Rovers who always brought a lot, more than city even. They weren’t playing in Bristol even at the time so always took a load away. We were a small club then, 2 or 3000, we could easily have gone bust in the 90’s.
Sam Hammam gave us hope.

I see the early 90's as the time that showed we could be a bigger club, that 93 season was outstanding, great numbers home and away, Tricky really did give us a feeling we could be something, i must admit it was great being the big fish in the little pond around that time, i loved that era

I remember when we were rubbish, badly run and our name was poison in our own town. I wouldn't necessarily equate that with being small though.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

People can support who they want. You don’t support your local club.

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Well they can but if two people are at a party and one is from torquay and supports torquay and another one is from Cardiff and starts telling me he has no interest in cardiff city but goes up to old Trafford once a season I think what a complete cock and chat to the torquay fan , a proper football supporter

Thats the way it is as far as I am concerned

I live 15 miles from Cardiff City Stadium , I support my local football team

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Actually no, you're facts are more of an observation or anecdote.

Citys average crowd 1991 was less than 3000.

Since 2010 they've consistently got more than 20000.

Those stats suggest the South Wales public are more behind City than they ever have been in my life time?

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Well thats because we are more successful but when we were last an established second division club our crowds were not as good as they should have been for a city and urban spread of our size

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Originally Posted by goats

I recall walking in to the BB like you when I started going properly 87/88.....always just the odd coach full unless it was wolves or Bolton back then. First time I remember thinking wow was Bristol Rovers who always brought a lot, more than city even. They weren’t playing in Bristol even at the time so always took a load away. We were a small club then, 2 or 3000, we could easily have gone bust in the 90’s.
Sam Hammam gave us hope.

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rovers were always well supported

I remember a crowd in the league against Wrexham

Saturday afternoon

1800

Thats not a sleeping giant , thats a fecking corpse

Rick Wright was the first to kick this club up the arse and hammam certainly pulled us up but people forget that under him crowds were still disappointing in the championship

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Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

I remember when we were rubbish, badly run and our name was poison in our own town. I wouldn't necessarily equate that with being small though.

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well big or medium sized clubs tend to get big or medium sized gates

For large parts of our history we have had neither

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Originally Posted by blue matt

I see the early 90's as the time that showed we could be a bigger club, that 93 season was outstanding, great numbers home and away, Tricky really did give us a feeling we could be something, i must admit it was great being the big fish in the little pond around that time, i loved that era

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me too , great days

That win over man city

Big gates in the lower leagues

But in no time blakey was sold and we tumbled back down

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well thats because we are more successful but when we were last an established second division club our crowds were not as good as they should have been for a city and urban spread of our size

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I dare say, that’s probably right now, even though crowds have risen.

What, out of interest do you expect City’s crowd attendance to be in relation to the population of South Wales?

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

I dare say, that’s probably right now, even though crowds have risen.

What, out of interest do you expect City’s crowd attendance to be in relation to the population of South Wales?

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We should be in the top three best supported clubs in the league

A bit of perspective might be needed here.

This season is our 20th anniversary of our last promotion from the bottom division. This season will be our 18th consecutively inside the top 2 divisions. Only 17 other clubs can boast that during the same period.

We spent 18 seasons outside of the 2nd tier between 1985 and 2003, 10 of those in the dungeon. Prior to that, we had spent 47 of our 59 seasons inside the top division. The 1930s were a bit of a dark time for the club following a very successful 1920s, and between 1947 and 1985, we spent 2 of 38 seasons outside of the top 2 divisions.

We've played 94 league seasons. Half have been at our current level. We have spent twice as long inside the top 2 divisions as we have outside it.

Since the 2006/07 season, we have not finished lower than 12 in the Championship. We've been in the top 32 clubs in the league for 13 years. I would argue that's where we belong. If anything I reckon we should be a Premier League side.

I'm not being dismissive of the 2 decades struggling around the bottom division. For some that is when their love of the club started. It's where mine started. It's hardly representative of Cardiff City's history though it's an important part.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We should be in the top three best supported clubs in the league

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

A bit of perspective might be needed here.

This season is our 20th anniversary of our last promotion from the bottom division. This season will be our 18th consecutively inside the top 2 divisions. Only 17 other clubs can boast that during the same period.

We spent 18 seasons outside of the 2nd tier between 1985 and 2003, 10 of those in the dungeon. Prior to that, we had spent 47 of our 59 seasons inside the top division. The 1930s were a bit of a dark time for the club following a very successful 1920s, and between 1947 and 1985, we spent 2 of 38 seasons outside of the top 2 divisions.

We've played 94 league seasons. Half have been at our current level. We have spent twice as long inside the top 2 divisions as we have outside it.

Since the 2006/07 season, we have not finished lower than 12 in the Championship. We've been in the top 32 clubs in the league for 13 years. I would argue that's where we belong. If anything I reckon we should be a Premier League side.

I'm not being dismissive of the 2 decades struggling around the bottom division. For some that is when their love of the club started. It's where mine started. It's hardly representative of Cardiff City's history though it's an important part.

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I think a mid placed championship club is what we are

Occasionally we might go up and hopefully we will stay up but thats going to be about it

I would love us to do a Leicester and win the league with route one football just to piss everyone off but I can't see it happening

We are a medium sized club and have spent far too long in the lower leagues to considered anything else

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

:hehe:

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based upon cardiff and the hinterland population , which is the question that was asked ?

I reckon that's about right

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I think a mid placed championship club is what we are

Occasionally we might go up and hopefully we will stay up but thats going to be about it

I would love us to do a Leicester and win the league with route one football just to piss everyone off but I can't see it happening

We are a medium sized club and have spent far too long in the lower leagues to considered anything else

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Considering that being a mid placed championship side has been the lowest achievement of this club in over a decade, I think your thoughts of where we should be are placed a tad low.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

based upon cardiff and the hinterland population , which is the question that was asked ?

I reckon that's about right

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Norwich will average 25k. Derby 23k. Forest 22k. Wednesday and Stoke will get more than us.

We're a club whose attendances will fluctuate. Top flight we could make the top 10 with a bigger stadium. Championship we won't make the top 6. We're not alone in having big drops in attendances after relegation. We're not the worst club for fans leaving after relegation, not by a long chalk.

Clubs like Villa, Newcastle and Norwich have very strong attendances in the Championship based on years of local people supporting their side. We don't have that.

I've always thought the City was the greatest team in football the world hard ever seen

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Norwich will average 25k. Derby 23k. Forest 22k. Wednesday and Stoke will get more than us.

We're a club whose attendances will fluctuate. Top flight we could make the top 10 with a bigger stadium. Championship we won't make the top 6. We're not alone in having big drops in attendances after relegation. We're not the worst club for fans leaving after relegation, not by a long chalk.

Clubs like Villa, Newcastle and Norwich have very strong attendances in the Championship based on years of local people supporting their side. We don't have that.

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We should , given our catchment area be in the top three

But the south wales sporting public is fickle

It likes to back the winner , its likes the big event

Such as the six nations

Or in our case when a big club is playing city , we can sell out for them or a promotion run in

But I am afraid a lot of people don't care about the bluebirds in south Wales, many care for man united and liverpool and that leaves the rest of us ......some being more frequent visitos than others

Our support is up and down to a massive degree

Dave Jones first game in charge against Leeds? 15000

Not great but at least we won a pulsating game with a fantastic goal by Jason koumas and a late penalty by purse

Next game up was Watford

The crowd ?

Less than 10000

Thats a staggering drop considering only 500 Leeds fans were there in a bubble trip

The conclusion ? Lots of the people there that night were not cardiff fans but there for a big game , they were south wales leeds fans and there are loads of those plastics or they were cardiff fans who simply couldn't be arsed to watch city v Watford

That is the reason , in a number of points why a city the size of cardiff should be getting bigger gates than derby , Norwich, Stoke

Name me another club of our size , apart from Coventry who have been sold down the river , that has support as fickle as ours ?

Its part of the clubs history I am afraid

Portsmouth have struggled in the lower leagues for several years but they have regularly been pulling in 16000 fans

We would see our support collapse if we went out of the championship

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We should , given our catchment area be in the top three

But the south wales sporting public is fickle

It likes to back the winner , its likes the big event

Such as the six nations

Or in our case when a big club is playing city , we can sell out for them or a promotion run in

But I am afraid a lot of people don't care about the bluebirds in south Wales, many care for man united and liverpool and that leaves the rest of us ......some being more frequent visitos than others

Our support is up and down to a massive degree

Dave Jones first game in charge against Leeds? 15000

Not great but at least we won a pulsating game with a fantastic goal by Jason koumas and a late penalty by purse

Next game up was Watford

The crowd ?

Less than 10000

Thats a staggering drop considering only 500 Leeds fans were there in a bubble trip

The conclusion ? Lots of the people there that night were not cardiff fans but there for a big game , they were south wales leeds fans and there are loads of those plastics or they were cardiff fans who simply couldn't be arsed to watch city v Watford

That is the reason , in a number of points why a city the size of cardiff should be getting bigger gates than derby , Norwich, Stoke

Name me another club of our size , apart from Coventry who have been sold down the river , that has support as fickle as ours ?

Its part of the clubs history I am afraid

Portsmouth have struggled in the lower leagues for several years but they have regularly been pulling in 16000 fans

We would see our support collapse if we went out of the championship

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Another conclusion could be that the Leeds and Watford games were played on a Tuesday and Friday evening at a time when many fans were on holiday. More relevant probably was that the Watford game was moved to a Friday because it was live on Sky, so it's reasonable to think that had an effect on the size of the crowd.

We are what we are, a naturally second tier club and our gates reflect that - Cardiff and south Wales is not a football hotbed like some other parts of the country are and it is not a place where football supporters tend to gravitate naturally towards the local team. Maybe if we were better at cementing Premier League status when we win it you might get the new supporters coming to the club and staying, but, sadly, we've shown ourselves to be the worst club in the country at doing that out of the teams who have had two promotions or more to the Premier League.

Even a few years in the Premier league wouldn't guarantee sustained support, Boro, Bolton and Stoke have all seen a massive decline in attendance once they dropped out of the Premier league.
I prefer the Championship as it's so competitive and anything can happen, teams very rarely walk this league, having said that I hope we have a real go at promotion and if and when we get there, the club has a real ambition to stay there.

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Originally Posted by olderblue

Even a few years in the Premier league wouldn't guarantee sustained support, Boro, Bolton and Stoke have all seen a massive decline in attendance once they dropped out of the Premier league.
I prefer the Championship as it's so competitive and anything can happen, teams very rarely walk this league, having said that I hope we have a real go at promotion and if and when we get there, the club has a real ambition to stay there.

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I prefer the championship but to get this club in the faces of the south wales public we need to be in the greedy league .

And for some people even that won't be enough , they would expect us to be competing with the big boys or after a season they would go back to watching Liverpool or Man united on sky tv .

I would love to be a Leicester or a Burnley but at the moment about a decade of being a crystal Palace would be a start as a generation of people would grow up with cardiff city being a top flight club .

Go back to 2009 and look at the ground on the final day of the season. The 'Bob bank' basically the same as the early 1920's. The Canton Stand virtually unchanged since 1922. The grandstand 50% 1930's, top half 1970's. The grange end the only 'new' stand.

The club had no real financial backing - until Hammam saw the potential. We've recently been in the PL with 32,000 average gates. Yes, our support is fickle, always has been unfortunately, but now more than ever the size of your home support does not automatically equat to the level of success you can achieve. Notwithstanding Covid, gate receipts for PL and to a lesser extent Championship clubs are a smaller percentage of overall income than ever before. Spend wisely and reap the harvest ..

The new ground obviously mad a big impact. Modern facilities and it spurred an interest in a new generation of fans and older ones returning.

Let's face it Ninian Park was not a fortress, and was basically falling down.

We had a good side under Jones and attendances were poor, around the 10k mark. But it's miles better now. We are not the only club with fickle fans. Check the attendances of clubs like Newcastle and Leeds in the 80s. And clubs with more successful histories than us like Burnley and Blackburn and a few others get less than us these days. The issue is for the club to keep the momentum going in these difficult times.

But the recent attendances have been crap!!!

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We should be in the top three best supported clubs in the league

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Lay off the LSD.

Delusions of grandeur (Be a great name for an indie or thrash metal group).

It's quite difficult to pigeon hole the club's status because there are so many factors to take into consideration.

Are we a top 6 club continuously battling it out for silverware ? Obviously not and unlikely ever to be in that position.

Are we in the next tranche of clubs who are regularly on the undercard, teams like Everton etc. No but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that one day we could be.

Are we a massively supported club, such as Newcastle, who are perennial under-achievers. No and likely to stay that way because the North East is obsessed with the game in a way that South Wales is not.

Do we have a famous name, backed up with historical success, such as Forest, Villa, Wolves and Sheffield Wednesday. Yet again no.

In my opinion, we belong with a whole host of clubs such as Palace, Portsmouth, Brighton, Middlesbrough, Ipswich and many more who have flirted with the top flight and occasionally got to major cup finals. That would place us in the top 30% of current football League clubs. From this base, there is every chance that we could progress to the next level but so far that consistency has eluded us.

We have never been a small club a la Rochdale, Scunthorpe, Tranmere etc. A decent sized club grossly underperforming yes but not a small one. In reality, I never felt we belonged in the dungeon but we were there for far too long. We are now at a level where we are comfortable but unlike the 60's and 70's, there is a feeling that the club is ready to kick on and mix it with the big boys on a regular basis. Here's hoping !

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

It's quite difficult to pigeon hole the club's status because there are so many factors to take into consideration.

Are we a top 6 club continuously battling it out for silverware ? Obviously not and unlikely ever to be in that position.

Are we in the next tranche of clubs who are regularly on the undercard, teams like Everton etc. No but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that one day we could be.

Are we a massively supported club, such as Newcastle, who are perennial under-achievers. No and likely to stay that way because the North East is obsessed with the game in a way that South Wales is not.

Do we have a famous name, backed up with historical success, such as Forest, Villa, Wolves and Sheffield Wednesday. Yet again no.

In my opinion, we belong with a whole host of clubs such as Palace, Portsmouth, Brighton, Middlesbrough, Ipswich and many more who have flirted with the top flight and occasionally got to major cup finals. That would place us in the top 30% of current football League clubs. From this base, there is every chance that we could progress to the next level but so far that consistency has eluded us.

We have never been a small club a la Rochdale, Scunthorpe, Tranmere etc. A decent sized club grossly underperforming yes but not a small one. In reality, I never felt we belonged in the dungeon but we were there for far too long. We are now at a level where we are comfortable but unlike the 60's and 70's, there is a feeling that the club is ready to kick on and mix it with the big boys on a regular basis. Here's hoping !

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I'd say that's a fair and accurate analysis :thumbup:.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

It's quite difficult to pigeon hole the club's status because there are so many factors to take into consideration.

Are we a top 6 club continuously battling it out for silverware ? Obviously not and unlikely ever to be in that position.

Are we in the next tranche of clubs who are regularly on the undercard, teams like Everton etc. No but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that one day we could be.

Are we a massively supported club, such as Newcastle, who are perennial under-achievers. No and likely to stay that way because the North East is obsessed with the game in a way that South Wales is not.

Do we have a famous name, backed up with historical success, such as Forest, Villa, Wolves and Sheffield Wednesday. Yet again no.

In my opinion, we belong with a whole host of clubs such as Palace, Portsmouth, Brighton, Middlesbrough, Ipswich and many more who have flirted with the top flight and occasionally got to major cup finals. That would place us in the top 30% of current football League clubs. From this base, there is every chance that we could progress to the next level but so far that consistency has eluded us.

We have never been a small club a la Rochdale, Scunthorpe, Tranmere etc. A decent sized club grossly underperforming yes but not a small one. In reality, I never felt we belonged in the dungeon but we were there for far too long. We are now at a level where we are comfortable but unlike the 60's and 70's, there is a feeling that the club is ready to kick on and mix it with the big boys on a regular basis. Here's hoping !

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Good post,all said is true:thumbup: