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Keiffer Moore's Career
To be honest, before he signed for City in August, my knowledge of Kieffer Moore was limited to having seeing him play for Wigan at the CCS back in February, when he scored twice and looked pretty decent. I've largely lost interest in international football since the Nations League was introduced, so I haven't watched any of Moore's appearances for Wales.
Having checked his stats on Soccerbase this morning, I was surprised to find that he was playing in the National League for Forest Green Rovers as recently as January 2017. Since then, he's played Championship football for four clubs and his stats are as follows:
2016/17 (Ipswich) = 0 (+ 11) apps, 0 goals
2017/18 (Barnsley) = 16 (+ 4) apps, 4 goals
2019/20 (Wigan) = 32 (+ 4) apps, 10 goals
2020/21 (Cardiff) = 10 (+ 1) apps, 3 goals
Championship totals = 58 (+20) apps, 17 goals
Moore did have one previous season at Championship level with Yeovil back in 2013/14. His record for the Glovers as they finished rock bottom of the table was: 10 (+ 10) apps, 4 goals. Therefore, his overall Championship record is: 68 (+ 30) apps, 21 goals.
By way of a direct and very close comparison, Kenneth Zohore's Championship stats for Cardiff, West Brom and Millwall are: 62 (+ 35) apps, 27 goals.
Moore's record for Wigan last season was interesting. He failed to score in any of his first 12 Championship matches for the Latics, but then scored 10 goals in his next 24 games.
His scoring record in League One for Rotherham (2017/18) and Barnsley (2018/19) was excellent. He netted a total of 30 goals in just 45 (+ 18) games for the two South Yorkshire clubs.
Moore celebrated his 28th birthday in August, so he's obviously something of a late developer in football terms. To go from playing in the National League in early 2017 to being an international regular for Wales in 2019 is an impressive feat. However, having watched most of his appearances for City so far this season, I firmly believe the expectations of him would be significantly reduced if he wasn't a Welsh international. To me, he looks a useful Championship performer for sure and certainly far more suited to the division than Robert Glatzel, but nothing in Moore's playing record suggests to me that he's going to be a frequent scorer at this level.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
If there was anything in his career to suggest he was a regular scorer in the championship we wouldn’t have got him for £2m. We probably wouldn’t have got him at all.
He is a Welsh international, fairly cheap in both terms of fee and I would assume wages and still probably our best striker since Bothroyd.
Will he be top scorer in the division - no. Will he be top scorer for us - quite possibly!
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManBearPig
Will he be top scorer in the division - no. Will he be top scorer for us - quite possibly!
What's been interesting to me since the season began is the expectations of him from the media, both local and national. You'd expect that hopes would be high from the supporters, especially with the Welsh connection, but the media seem to regard his £2 million fee as a real steal (I think Wigan signed him for £2.5 million).
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Cardiff City's top scorer stats from BBC:
1st (joint) Kieffer Moore
Assists - 1
Played - 11
Goals per 90 - 0.29
Mins per goal - 306
Total shots - 25
Goal conversion - 12%
Shot accuracy - 36%
He's certainly a late bloomer but finishing still needs work: only two players from the BBC stats for top 15 scorers in the league have worse shot accuracy and no one has as bad a goal conversion rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
By way of a direct and very close comparison, Kenneth Zohore's Championship stats for Cardiff, West Brom and Millwall are: 62 (+ 35) apps, 27 goals..
Zohore's stats are falsely boosted by one or two runs of form where he was a goal-scoring machine. Most of his time here he struggled to contribute whereas Moore, for his faults, hasn't been a passenger in any game at any level. He's big, mobile, quicker than you would think and is technically pretty good - our best striker since Bothroyd.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
To be honest, before he signed for City in August, my knowledge of Kieffer Moore was limited to having seeing him play for Wigan at the CCS back in February, when he scored twice and looked pretty decent. I've largely lost interest in international football since the Nations League was introduced, so I haven't watched any of Moore's appearances for Wales.
Having checked his stats on Soccerbase this morning, I was surprised to find that he was playing in the National League for Forest Green Rovers as recently as January 2017. Since then, he's played Championship football for four clubs and his stats are as follows:
2016/17 (Ipswich) = 0 (+ 11) apps, 0 goals
2017/18 (Barnsley) = 16 (+ 4) apps, 4 goals
2019/20 (Wigan) = 32 (+ 4) apps, 10 goals
2020/21 (Cardiff) = 10 (+ 1) apps, 3 goals
Championship totals = 58 (+20) apps, 17 goals
Moore did have one previous season at Championship level with Yeovil back in 2013/14. His record for the Glovers as they finished rock bottom of the table was: 10 (+ 10) apps, 4 goals. Therefore, his overall Championship record is: 68 (+ 30) apps, 21 goals.
By way of a direct and very close comparison, Kenneth Zohore's Championship stats for Cardiff, West Brom and Millwall are: 62 (+ 35) apps, 27 goals.
Moore's record for Wigan last season was interesting. He failed to score in any of his first 12 Championship matches for the Latics, but then scored 10 goals in his next 24 games.
His scoring record in League One for Rotherham (2017/18) and Barnsley (2018/19) was excellent. He netted a total of 30 goals in just 45 (+ 18) games for the two South Yorkshire clubs.
Moore celebrated his 28th birthday in August, so he's obviously something of a late developer in football terms. To go from playing in the National League in early 2017 to being an international regular for Wales in 2019 is an impressive feat. However, having watched most of his appearances for City so far this season, I firmly believe the expectations of him would be significantly reduced if he wasn't a Welsh international. To me, he looks a useful Championship performer for sure and certainly far more suited to the division than Robert Glatzel, but nothing in Moore's playing record suggests to me that he's going to be a frequent scorer at this level.
Good post.
I am still in the ‘hopeful’ stage with Moore as he has at least scored a few goals for us and is still relatively new, as opposed to the ‘about to give up on’ stage with Bobby G who I don’t think is going to succeed here now, much as we all want him to.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Great post Dave and I was googling his stats this morning funnily enough. To me he's an average Championship striker and the stats show that.
I still prefer Glatzel, and Moore still hasn't shown me he's a better option but here's hoping he comes good this season but at 28 I'm my convinced he's suddenly going to become prolific.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
Zohore's stats are falsely boosted by one or two runs of form where he was a goal-scoring machine. Most of his time here he struggled to contribute whereas Moore, for his faults, hasn't been a passenger in any game at any level. He's big, mobile, quicker than you would think and is technically pretty good - our best striker since Bothroyd.
While Zohore on rare occasions was completely unplayable, witnessing the very few times that he absolutely destroyed the opposition made it all the more frustrating witnessing his often feeble throwing the towel in, Moore is definitely the more consistent headache for defenders, a Chopra or McCormack type alongside him would thrive I reckon. Trouble is we haven’t got the circa £15 million to buy that type of goal scorer, that is if any are about at our level.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
Cardiff City's top scorer stats from BBC:
1st (joint) Kieffer Moore
Assists - 1
Played - 11
Goals per 90 - 0.29
Mins per goal - 306
Total shots - 25
Goal conversion - 12%
Shot accuracy - 36%
He's certainly a late bloomer but finishing still needs work: only two players from the BBC stats for top 15 scorers in the league have worse shot accuracy and no one has as bad a goal conversion rate.
Zohore's stats are falsely boosted by one or two runs of form where he was a goal-scoring machine. Most of his time here he struggled to contribute whereas Moore, for his faults, hasn't been a passenger in any game at any level. He's big, mobile, quicker than you would think and is technically pretty good - our best striker since Bothroyd.
Falsely boosted by being good? :hehe:
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
C
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
While Zohore on rare occasions was completely unplayable, witnessing the very few times that he absolutely destroyed the opposition made it all the more frustrating witnessing his often feeble throwing the towel in, Moore is definitely the more consistent headache for defenders, a Chopra or McCormack type alongside him would thrive I reckon. Trouble is we haven’t got the circa £15 million to buy that type of goal scorer, that is if any are about at our level.
We got rid of two! Bobby Reid and Jarrod Bowen both now in Premier League?
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
Falsely boosted by being good? :hehe:
The impression we have of Zohore by only looking at his stats is a false one because most of the time he wasn't doing it.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
Falsely boosted by being good? :hehe:
Like a bowler that bowls 50 overs and takes only 5 wickets, what the hell was he doing the rest of the time? Rubbish 😂
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
The impression we have of Zohore by only looking at his stats is a false one because most of the time he wasn't doing it.
Because he was being played in a completely different way.
Zohore was asked to run behind the opposition’s defence in a way Moore would never be able to do because of our absolutely awful midfield at that time
Zohore single handedly won us a number of free kicks and corners from pure speed and strength that we capitalised on during Warnocks time.
Yes he couldn’t header the ball but to say he had ‘false stats’ because he was good is quite ridiculous
The problem with strikers has always been and will always be our midfield
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
While Zohore on rare occasions was completely unplayable, witnessing the very few times that he absolutely destroyed the opposition made it all the more frustrating witnessing his often feeble throwing the towel in, Moore is definitely the more consistent headache for defenders, a Chopra or McCormack type alongside him would thrive I reckon. Trouble is we haven’t got the circa £15 million to buy that type of goal scorer, that is if any are about at our level.
Murphy could do that job.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
I thought it was fairly common knowledge that he was in non-league until a few years ago. He's done well and pretty much all of his moves in the last couple of seasons have been of an upward trajectory tbf.
For £2million I think he's a good signing, we're just not getting the best out of him at the moment as he's isolated far too often (familiar problem). His record of a goal every 2 starts for Rotherham and Barnsley, and 1 in 3 for Wigan is decent. I do think he will probably eventually fall foul of everyone expecting more as he's welsh and has had a few games with bale and ramsey where he's looked great.
If he can get close to 15 goals this season it will be good business but the chances of him being a 20 goal a season striker are slim, especially if he's not on pens, but you can accept that for the price we paid.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SunderlandBluebird
I thought it was fairly common knowledge that he was in non-league until a few years ago.
In fact, he only spent a year in the National League.
He was released by Yeovil in June 2015 after they had just finished bottom of League One. In 2014/15 his League One stats were 20 (+ 10) appearances, 3 goals.
From Yeovil he went to Viking Stavanger in Norway in August 2015. He signed an 18-month contract there, but flopped. He was told to find a new club in November 2015 after failing to score in 9 appearances for Viking. He started only one game for them.
He then joined Forest Green in January 2016 and also had a spell on loan with Torquay during his year in the National League before joining Ipswich for £10,000 in January 2017.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
In fact, he only spent a year in the National League.
He was released by Yeovil in June 2015 after they had just finished bottom of League One. In 2014/15 his League One stats were 20 (+ 10) appearances, 3 goals.
From Yeovil he went to Viking Stavanger in Norway in August 2015. He signed an 18-month contract there, but flopped. He was told to find a new club in November 2015 after failing to score in 9 appearances for Viking. He started only one game for them.
He then joined Forest Green in January 2016 and also had a spell on loan with Torquay during his year in the National League before joining Ipswich for £10,000 in January 2017.
Fair play, some effort that to go from being chucked aside in Norway to being a regular starter in the Champ and for Wales. I'm confident he'll do alright, just hope the fans don't get on his back if he doesn't score in his next few games. Was poor on Friday night but everyone has a game or two like that. He grabbed the ball at QPR for the pen before Ralls took over so seems he definitely has the confidence and appetite for it.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
[QUOTE=The Lone Gunman;5134136]To be honest, before he signed for City in August, my knowledge of Kieffer Moore was limited to having seeing him play for Wigan at the CCS back in February, when he scored twice and looked pretty decent. I've largely lost interest in international football since the Nations League was introduced, so I haven't watched any of Moore's appearances for Wales.
Having checked his stats on Soccerbase this morning, I was surprised to find that he was playing in the National League for Forest Green Rovers as recently as January 2017. Since then, he's played Championship football for four clubs and his stats are as follows:
2016/17 (Ipswich) = 0 (+ 11) apps, 0 goals
2017/18 (Barnsley) = 16 (+ 4) apps, 4 goals
2019/20 (Wigan) = 32 (+ 4) apps, 10 goals
2020/21 (Cardiff) = 10 (+ 1) apps, 3 goals
Championship totals = 58 (+20) apps, 17 goals
Moore did have one previous season at Championship level with Yeovil back in 2013/14. His record for the Glovers as they finished rock bottom of the table was: 10 (+ 10) apps, 4 goals. Therefore, his overall Championship record is: 68 (+ 30) apps, 21 goals.
By way of a direct and very close comparison, Kenneth Zohore's Championship stats for Cardiff, West Brom and Millwall are: 62 (+ 35) apps, 27 goals.
Moore's record for Wigan last season was interesting. He failed to score in any of his first 12 Championship matches for the Latics, but then scored 10 goals in his next 24 games.
His scoring record in League One for Rotherham (2017/18) and Barnsley (2018/19) was excellent. He netted a total of 30 goals in just 45 (+ 18) games for the two South Yorkshire clubs. /QUOTE]
P'raps you are overly reliant on stats.
Anyone who watched Wales immediately pre-Keiffer would have seen that Wales were crying out for a target man. So often, during attacks, there was simply no-one in the box. They looked a better, more dangerous team when Moore was playing.
I'm impressed by his work-rate and feel he can only get better - given the service he needs.
Put succinctly for you - forget stats; use your eye.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
he's looked good for us, wins far more aerial duels than anyone in the division, is more mobile than he is given credit for and brings others into play.
I think he's been a good signing.
not sure why you would have stopped watching international football after the nation's league. I think it's a massive improvement on the meaningless friendlies that it replaced.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
I think he is a good link player and will score 10 to 15's per season with a good supply line , for me his presence will always create danger in around the box , I've been surprised by his control and that is a big plus for us and Wales .
Its all about the correct supply lines and knowing strikers strengths , over the years our strikers have been pulled out of their natural position and negating those strengths .
I would prefer him alongside a second striker aka a Tosh and clarke mode .
I think we got a bargain in todays transfer market .
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Whilst these stats are all very interesting, there is one thing that us always missing. the variable indicating the quality of players around him.
SP mentioned that a Chopra type person would benefit from playing with Moore, they would, but Moore would also benefit.
Everybody waxes lyrical about how good Bothroyd was for us. He was, as people have said, unplayable on his day (off his day he could be very frustrating) but look at the quality of people he played with.
Chops and McCormack with players like McPhail and Whitts giving him constant supply, willing runners getting to the byline and class defenders keeping 'em out.
I've no idea what the quality of player was like at his previous clubs but my guess is not very good (they certainly aren't anywhere near the quality of the aforementioned where he is at the moment) and that Moore has played better for Wales than his clubs, no doubt because of the quality of player around him.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Whilst these stats are all very interesting, there is one thing that us always missing. the variable indicating the quality of players around him.
I've no idea what the quality of player was like at his previous clubs but my guess is not very good (they certainly aren't anywhere near the quality of the aforementioned where he is at the moment) and that Moore has played better for Wales than his clubs, no doubt because of the quality of player around him.
This is very true, and a good observation. I think we should be looking to play Moore and Galtzel together in every game. Moore is often on his own against three defenders - with a second striker, those defenders have to spread out, and their attention is elsewhere. I thought this had finally sunk in with Harris, but nope, the very next game, it's back to one up front.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Whilst these stats are all very interesting, there is one thing that us always missing. the variable indicating the quality of players around him.
SP mentioned that a Chopra type person would benefit from playing with Moore, they would, but Moore would also benefit.
Everybody waxes lyrical about how good Bothroyd was for us. He was, as people have said, unplayable on his day (off his day he could be very frustrating) but look at the quality of people he played with.
Chops and McCormack with players like McPhail and Whitts giving him constant supply, willing runners getting to the byline and class defenders keeping 'em out.
I've no idea what the quality of player was like at his previous clubs but my guess is not very good (they certainly aren't anywhere near the quality of the aforementioned where he is at the moment) and that Moore has played better for Wales than his clubs, no doubt because of the quality of player around him.
A fine point , yes its not about one player and his stats , it has to be measured by other performances around the field.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManBearPig
If there was anything in his career to suggest he was a regular scorer in the championship we wouldn’t have got him for £2m. We probably wouldn’t have got him at all.
He is a Welsh international, fairly cheap in both terms of fee and I would assume wages and still probably our best striker since Bothroyd.
Will he be top scorer in the division - no. Will he be top scorer for us - quite possibly!
Barring injuries I fully expect him to get between 10-15 goals for us this season but you can't keep flogging him and expect him to put in a top notch performance every game. That's being unrealistic.
In my opinion he is nowhere near being our best striker since Bothroyd. Frazier Campbell and yes Kenwyn Jones were far superior footballers. Having said that, I still think that getting him for £2m was a good piece of business.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cyclops
Put succinctly for you - forget stats; use your eye.
Thanks for the advice. If you'd bothered to use yours to read all of what I'd written, you'd see I'm already doing just that.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
not sure why you would have stopped watching international football after the nation's league. I think it's a massive improvement on the meaningless friendlies that it replaced.
I was never a big fan of internationals anyway despite attending a large number of them. The Nations League has left me completely cold from day one. I've no idea what the point of the competition is when we already have the Euros. And I'm pretty sure there are still meaningless friendlies too. If you're interested in it then fair enough, but it does nothing for me.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MacAdder
Whilst these stats are all very interesting, there is one thing that us always missing. the variable indicating the quality of players around him.
I fear that may be the biggest obstacle he has to overcome here.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
It shows how times , and football transfer fees have changed. we signed Moore for £2m (some sources say £1.5m), and back in 2005 we paid £500,000 for Chopra, sold him for £5m and bought him back for £4m. So £2m in today's market is a steal, maybe likened to us paying £300,000 for Bothroyd about 12 years ago. Considering we paid £6m for Madine and £5.5m for Glatzel. He does work hard for 90 minutes though unlike some strikers I've seen at City.
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Re: Keiffer Moore's Career
I hadn’t seen any of Moore until I saw him play for Wales but he’s always looked very talented to me.
He definitely needs the right players round him but he looks like he could easily get 15 a season for us at this level.
The stats do him no favours but he is definitely the type of striker who could be a late bloomer.
