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Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Time to shut down now , not in the fecking new year
Its a crisis out there for Welsh hospitals
Completely mad to allow families from all over the place to naff things up just for a few days when its bad enough as it is
Sorry kids , sorry aunty Betty, its time to cancel Xmas
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Time to shut down now , not in the fecking new year
Its a crisis out there for Welsh hospitals
Completely mad to allow families from all over the place to naff things up just for a few days when its bad enough as it is
Sorry kids , sorry aunty Betty, its time to cancel Xmas
Stop it Mark is trying to save Xmas, he's paid a hefty deposit on his Santa outfit.
Why mothball Nightingale Hospitals one might ask , and ask was our Health Service fit for purpose in the beginning and now being sadly exposed.
Do agree though Xmas is shot why bugger up the lockdown, pub hospitality ,fire breaks efforts only to throw it all up in the air for a dry turkey dinner , farty Brussels sprouts , stupid party hats and relatives we don't bother with for most of the year .
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Stop it Mark is trying to save Xmas, he's paid a hefty deposit on his Santa outfit.
Why mothball Nightingale Hospitals one might ask , and ask was our Health Service fit for purpose in the beginning and now being sadly exposed.
I understand those hospitals were for recovery patients, though I might be wrong.
Was our NHS fit for purpose in the beginning? No. These lockdowns are partly because our NHS hasn't got the ability to cope. While it is devolved in Wales, sadly funding doesn't come from trees and the NHS across the UK in real terms is funded less than a decade ago.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Surely it was pretty stupid to decommission the Nightingale Hospital at the Principality Stadium. Why? So the all-important 6 nation rugby matches can be played there next Spring - madness!
Mark Drakeford says the Welsh public will lose trust in the WAG if plans for the Christmas period are changed. Rubbish. What he means is he and Gethin will lose face if the plans are changed. They should never have made any promises about relaxing the rules over Christmas until nearer the time when the status of the pandemic would be known.
Hopefully most folk will make the sensible decision to minimise contact over the holiday regardless of what the rules say we are allowed to do.
BTW Christmas cannot/will not be cancelled. Various boozy party get-togethers maybe cancelled, that's a different matter.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
I saw Vaughan gething arguing against a complete lockdown at Xmas as the doctors were pleading for it
Just like Hancock he's got to bow to the advice of those who know and are dealing with it
If he doesn't then you can forget about spring and maybe even summer
Just do it
No families meeting up for Xmas, lockdown , simple as that
Stick your rights up your arse this is serious and everybody has got to wake up
Football , shove it
Gigs , get fecked
Pubs with people getting pissed up , no chance
Groups of people gathering transmit this thing
The NHS is at breaking point , nursesxand doctors are dying treating our loved ones and people want to insist on having a turkey dinner ?
What a load of bollocks
My old dear has got pneumonia, dementia and covid and is in isolation at the Princess of Wales , she's 86
There are people in their forties fighting for their lives with this virus and we are worrying about Christmas?
The other day I went in to drop off some laundry for her and the shops were fecking packed with people carrying bagfulls of presents , the stores were packed
This country , and that means the UK, is full of brain dead idiots
Cannot people moderate their behaviour till we get on top of this thing ?
Boris , Drakeford and Sturgeon have got to get tough and stay tough
Its a piss show
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Surely it was pretty stupid to decommission the Nightingale Hospital at the Principality Stadium. Why? So the all-important 6 nation rugby matches can be played there next Spring - madness!
Mark Drakeford says the Welsh public will lose trust in the WAG if plans for the Christmas period are changed. Rubbish. What he means is he and Gethin will lose face if the plans are changed. They should never have made any promises about relaxing the rules over Christmas until nearer the time when the status of the pandemic would be known.
Hopefully most folk will make the sensible decision to minimise contact over the holiday regardless of what the rules say we are allowed to do.
BTW Christmas cannot/will not be cancelled. Various boozy party get-togethers maybe cancelled, that's a different matter.
There is a new hospital in Bridgend, seren , for overflow , thats filling up
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
The politicians caved in to public pressure to ease the restrictions for Christmas. Sod the public, they should be listening to the doctors and nurses and lockdown now. It's the Christmas shoppers and schools that are fuelling the rise in cases now. The system cant cope now and wont cope with the consequences of the 5 days of Christmas.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
I'm not one to defend Mr Drakeford and co but the dragons breath or whatever it was called at the mill stand was shut because there was hardly anyone in there for months. At the same time they were building a new purpose built unit at the heath.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
I'm not one to defend Mr Drakeford and co but the dragons breath or whatever it was called at the mill stand was shut because there was hardly anyone in there for months. At the same time they were building a new purpose built unit at the heath................. which still isn't fully ready.
Just finishing that sentence for you. Not ready because the WAG didn't arrange for the work to start until too late and closed the Stadium knowing it wouldn't be ready.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Even if the government had said at the outset that Christmas would be a full lockdown, a huge percentage of people would have ignored it and done as they pleased. A huge wave in the UK in January is inevitable, whatever the policies.
Other countries will also see spikes, but not to the level of the UK. Our increased ‘me’ culture means us Brits think; I’ll be ok and my family will be ok, so what’s the problem?
The politicians will take the flack, but you can only do so much if your population is stupid.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I saw Vaughan gething arguing against a complete lockdown at Xmas as the doctors were pleading for it
Just like Hancock he's got to bow to the advice of those who know and are dealing with it
If he doesn't then you can forget about spring and maybe even summer
Just do it
No families meeting up for Xmas, lockdown , simple as that
Stick your rights up your arse this is serious and everybody has got to wake up
Football , shove it
Gigs , get fecked
Pubs with people getting pissed up , no chance
Groups of people gathering transmit this thing
The NHS is at breaking point , nursesxand doctors are dying treating our loved ones and people want to insist on having a turkey dinner ?
What a load of bollocks
My old dear has got pneumonia, dementia and covid and is in isolation at the Princess of Wales , she's 86
There are people in their forties fighting for their lives with this virus and we are worrying about Christmas?
The other day I went in to drop off some laundry for her and the shops were fecking packed with people carrying bagfulls of presents , the stores were packed
This country , and that means the UK, is full of brain dead idiots
Cannot people moderate their behaviour till we get on top of this thing ?
Boris , Drakeford and Sturgeon have got to get tough and stay tough
Its a piss show
you can shut anything you like but no government is going to stop people meeting getting pissed and breaking the rules unless you impose total curfew and martial law. That is not going to happen. If it did there would be revolt.
It will happen in people houses come what may. Everyone believes it won't happen to them, it's human nature If you thought anything else you couldn't live your life.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grangenders
Even if the government had said at the outset that Christmas would be a full lockdown, a huge percentage of people would have ignored it and done as they pleased. A huge wave in the UK in January is inevitable, whatever the policies.
Other countries will also see spikes, but not to the level of the UK. Our increased ‘me’ culture means us Brits think; I’ll be ok and my family will be ok, so what’s the problem?
The politicians will take the flack, but you can only do so much if your population is stupid.
That is not a 'Brit' thing, its human nature. If people always thought something bad would happen to them they'd never so anything (Literally).
https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3an...-optimism-bias
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Just finishing that sentence for you. Not ready because the WAG didn't arrange for the work to start until too late and closed the Stadium knowing it wouldn't be ready.
Are there enough staff and patients for a Stadium hospital at the moment.?
I think the WAG have lost control. Drakeford should never gone along with the 5 day piss up and should be locking down now.
I dont think closing the Stadium was a mistake though.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
you can shut anything you like but no government is going to stop people meeting getting pissed and breaking the rules unless you impose total curfew and martial law. That is not going to happen. If it did there would be revolt.
It will happen in people houses come what may. Everyone believes it won't happen to them, it's human nature If you thought anything else you couldn't live your life.
But the bufoons line has been trust in the British people.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
There's panic in the streets..
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I understand those hospitals were for recovery patients, though I might be wrong.
Was our NHS fit for purpose in the beginning? No. These lockdowns are partly because our NHS hasn't got the ability to cope. While it is devolved in Wales, sadly funding doesn't come from trees and the NHS across the UK in real terms is funded less than a decade ago.
Really?
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
Really?
I think the funding has gone up slower than inflation.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Really feeling for Wales and the UK looking from overseas (Australia), although I've gotta say I'm embarrassed to see Westminsters response to this whole thing and the news in Australia displays the same thing.
Boris' whole manifesto was getting control of the borders and leaving Europe then a pandemic comes around and he doesn't close the borders to Europe (when the UK is an island) and thus imports the virus in from travellers from the continent?? Not once but twice. WAG have got things wrong but it seems like they're trying to empty a flooding house but all the taps are running and the rivers are overflowing.
Australia/NZ etc are lucky they are fairly isolated but by closing the borders quickly they have avoided a nightmare situation. The Tories have f'ed up the UKs response, once the virus is in the community you are on a hiding to nothing.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
Really?
Inflation has averaged at 3.1% between 2010-2020. The NHS budget was £126.3bn in 2010. It would be £171bn if it matched inflation. In 2020 it was £149bn.
Edit: Extra money has been made available for Covid and shouldn't be used in the calculation.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Inflation has averaged at 3.1% between 2010-2020. The NHS budget was £126.3bn in 2010. It would be £171bn if it matched inflation. In 2020 it was £149bn.
Edit: Extra money has been made available for Covid and shouldn't be used in the calculation.
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/project...ell/nhs-budget
I think that £126.3bn figure for 2010 is in 2020 prices, i.e. accounting for inflation.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
I think the WAG have lost control. Drakeford should never gone along with the 5 day piss up and should be locking down now.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but apparently the decision to close pubs early and stop selling alcohol has damaged the public's opinion of the Welsh Government. Could you imagine the reaction from much of the public if WG told everyone they cannot meet with families etc? It'll be bad enough if there is a lockdown immediately after Christmas and people are stopped from meeting up to celebrate new year.
I am starting to feel sorry for our MPs, AMs etc. A quick glance on Facebook and Twitter sees so many people criticising governments in Wales and Westminster for preventing people living their lives. Then you get others criticising the same for not being strong enough and not shutting things down faster and for longer. They cannot win. Snuggler says the only way you'd enforce a lockdown is with martial law. I think he's right. Imagine the reaction if it happened? Jeez.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
Yes, my mistake. I notice the King's Fund also says that rises have been much lower than the average rise and the NHS struggles to make ends meet.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
More and more medical consultants calling for a shutdown as the relaxation in restrictions is going to cost lives and an already rampant virus is going to go into overdrive
Should we listen to Boris, Hancock , Drakeford and Gethin or specialists in respiratory medicine , intensive care consultants etc ?
Do it now you fecking dicks
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Just finishing that sentence for you. Not ready because the WAG didn't arrange for the work to start until too late and closed the Stadium knowing it wouldn't be ready.
I didn't know that, so it's even worse than I thought. Why dismantle the stadium hospital at all? Just to have a few games of rugby in the spring which no-one will be allowed in to see anyway? Stradey Park is perfectly adequate for international games as we have seen recently.
Apparently the stadium hospital cost £8 million to build and the new facility is going to cost £33 million!! I don't know the cost of dismantling the former.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I saw Vaughan gething arguing against a complete lockdown at Xmas as the doctors were pleading for it
Just like Hancock he's got to bow to the advice of those who know and are dealing with it
If he doesn't then you can forget about spring and maybe even summer
Just do it
No families meeting up for Xmas, lockdown , simple as that
Stick your rights up your arse this is serious and everybody has got to wake up
Football , shove it
Gigs , get fecked
Pubs with people getting pissed up , no chance
Groups of people gathering transmit this thing
The NHS is at breaking point , nursesxand doctors are dying treating our loved ones and people want to insist on having a turkey dinner ?
What a load of bollocks
My old dear has got pneumonia, dementia and covid and is in isolation at the Princess of Wales , she's 86
There are people in their forties fighting for their lives with this virus and we are worrying about Christmas?
The other day I went in to drop off some laundry for her and the shops were fecking packed with people carrying bagfulls of presents , the stores were packed
This country , and that means the UK, is full of brain dead idiots
Cannot people moderate their behaviour till we get on top of this thing ?
Boris , Drakeford and Sturgeon have got to get tough and stay tough
Its a piss show
And nothing to do with Christmas.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
And nothing to do with Christmas.
Relaxing the restriction rules at Xmas is going to lead to a prolonged spread of the virus , whether its locally or to other parts of the country
Xmas is , whether you celebrate it for religious or other purposes , a time when people mix . We are in the middle of a huge spike in this virus again , the health service is creaking , the experts are saying Xmas or winter festival or whatever needs to be restricted , they want a lockdown
But our politicians and our stupid population don't want that
So we are fecked
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
I didn't know that, so it's even worse than I thought. Why dismantle the stadium hospital at all? Just to have a few games of rugby in the spring which no-one will be allowed in to see anyway? Stradey Park is perfectly adequate for international games as we have seen recently.
Apparently the stadium hospital cost £8 million to build and the new facility is going to cost £33 million!! I don't know the cost of dismantling the former.
Trouble with WAG they don't manage cost very well , or logistics .
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I saw Vaughan gething arguing against a complete lockdown at Xmas as the doctors were pleading for it
Just like Hancock he's got to bow to the advice of those who know and are dealing with it
If he doesn't then you can forget about spring and maybe even summer
Just do it
No families meeting up for Xmas, lockdown , simple as that
Stick your rights up your arse this is serious and everybody has got to wake up
Football , shove it
Gigs , get fecked
Pubs with people getting pissed up , no chance
Groups of people gathering transmit this thing
The NHS is at breaking point , nursesxand doctors are dying treating our loved ones and people want to insist on having a turkey dinner ?
What a load of bollocks
My old dear has got pneumonia, dementia and covid and is in isolation at the Princess of Wales , she's 86
There are people in their forties fighting for their lives with this virus and we are worrying about Christmas?
The other day I went in to drop off some laundry for her and the shops were fecking packed with people carrying bagfulls of presents , the stores were packed
This country , and that means the UK, is full of brain dead idiots
Cannot people moderate their behaviour till we get on top of this thing ?
Boris , Drakeford and Sturgeon have got to get tough and stay tough
Its a piss show
Nope , track , trace , isolate be buggered why should I
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
For many people, family is everything. And lots of people love Christmas. Imagine that you fall into both of those categories, but have elected to stay away from your family this year in order to be on the 'safe' side. And then imagine that one of your family members dies early in the New Year before you have a chance to see them again. I wonder how you'd feel about that? Would you console yourself with the thought that you'd done the 'right' thing?
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
For many people, family is everything. And lots of people love Christmas. Imagine that you fall into both of those categories, but have elected to stay away from your family this year in order to be on the 'safe' side. And then imagine that one of your family members dies early in the New Year before you have a chance to see them again. I wonder how you'd feel about that? Would you console yourself with the thought that you'd done the 'right' thing?
On the flip side is that if you decided to see them again, you had Covid but didn't know it, passed it on and they become severely ill or worse, how would you feel? I'm in charge of a ladies' choir and we've made the decision that we're not going to resume until it is ok for everyone to do so. Many of them are itching to get back to singing, but it's all tempered by the possibility that Covid could be passed on in a rehearsal to someone vunerable (and we have a few). Nobody wants that on their conscience. Another choir I help out have agreed to resume when given the green light to do so, signing disclaimers, and anyone vunerable making their own decision over whether to return.
There's no right or wrong with any of this, just different opinions. I think there are genuine cases where families will need to be together, that I'd class as essential. I would hope most people are capable of deciding what is essential and what isn't. What must be avoided are those who are solely interested in having a large party as this is often where Covid spikes originate. As I've said before, it's not about the majority, who are sensible with all of this, it's about the minority who have no regard for the rules and will do what they want regardless. That is, unfortunately, why we have to have laws and regulations.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
On the flip side is that if you decided to see them again, you had Covid but didn't know it, passed it on and they become severely ill or worse, how would you feel?
Indeed. Like you say, there is no obvious right or wrong despite what some fools are claiming.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Indeed. Like you say, there is no obvious right or wrong despite what some fools are claiming.
I’d say one thing this past yr has taught a lot of people, or hopefully it will, is if and when life gets back to some form of normality, then folk should spend a lot more time with family members, especially parents, if they are lucky enough to still be alive.
I’ve never understood families who only get together at Christmas. How ever busy you are, there are more important things in life.
Fair enough, if you live so far away it makes it almost impossible to visit regularly, but there are many folk who could make more effort, but choose not to for what ever reason, then regret it when it’s too late..
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I’d say one thing this past yr has taught a lot of people, or hopefully it will, is if and when life gets back to some form of normality, then folk should spend a lot more time with family members, especially parents, if they are lucky enough to still be alive. I’ve never understood families who only get together at Christmas. How ever busy you are, there are more important things in life. Fair enough, if you live so far away it makes it almost impossible to visit regularly, but there are many folk who could make more effort, but choose not to for what ever reason, then regret it when it’s too late..
There's certainly some truth in that, but this year has been unique in that many people who usually spend plenty of time with their families haven't done so at all this year because they've been observing the various rules and regulations.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
There's certainly some truth in that, but this year has been unique in that many people who usually spend plenty of time with their families haven't done so at all this year because they've been observing the various rules and regulations.
Trivia fact that I heard on the radio a few months back was that dogs have never had it so good apparently, not being left alone all day whilst owners are at work, being walked a lot more regularly, loads more attention and being fed more often.........it hasn't tempted me to get a dog at all though, mobile shit machines as far as I’m concerned:hide:
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Indeed. Like you say, there is no obvious right or wrong despite what some fools are claiming.
That's why I'm not in favour of announcing a lockdown over Christmas. I'm not even sure how much an appeal to people's better nature would work. Those who would deliberately flaut the rules will do so regardless of what they are told, where some who feel that meeting up with a family member or even a friend who desperately needs that company on what can be the most lonely day of the year, might think better of it.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
That's why I'm not in favour of announcing a lockdown over Christmas. I'm not even sure how much an appeal to people's better nature would work. Those who would deliberately flaut the rules will do so regardless of what they are told, where some who feel that meeting up with a family member or even a friend who desperately needs that company on what can be the most lonely day of the year, might think better of it.
I'm not a fan of Christmas (to put it mildly), but my mother certainly is. Highlight of the year as far as she's concerned and, while she's being pragmatic about situation, I know it's really upset her that our circumstances dictate we won't be able to get together as a family at all this year, either on Christmas Day or on any other day during the festive period. She's in her mid-eighties now and has mentioned on more than one occasion that she fears we may not get the chance to spend another Christmas together, which is understandable at her age. She's used the same phrase repeatedly in recent months: "This isn't living, it's just existing." I think a lot of people of all ages are feeling the same.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
On the flip side is that if you decided to see them again, you had Covid but didn't know it, passed it on and they become severely ill or worse, how would you feel? I'm in charge of a ladies' choir and we've made the decision that we're not going to resume until it is ok for everyone to do so. Many of them are itching to get back to singing, but it's all tempered by the possibility that Covid could be passed on in a rehearsal to someone vunerable (and we have a few). Nobody wants that on their conscience. Another choir I help out have agreed to resume when given the green light to do so, signing disclaimers, and anyone vunerable making their own decision over whether to return.
you're preaching to the... nevermind.
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Sorry to hear about your mother Sludge. I hope things work out ok mate. Completely agree with everything you said on the matter
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NTB
Sorry to hear about your mother Sludge. I hope things work out ok mate. Completely agree with everything you said on the matter
Thank you mate
If your car is fecked you see a mechanic
If you need some advice about a legal matter , you see a solicitor
If the people dealing on the coal face with this serious virus that has killed people of all ages and many healthcare staff say that the hospitals are creaking and that their years of medical training has enabled them to come to the conclusion that the country needs to forget about Xmas this year , however important it is to families , parents , kids , the shops etc ......because if we don't then this virus is going to swamp the hospitals and the healthcare system will break , in the middle of winter then we are either going to take that advice or we are fecked , not just for Xmas but for maybe another year !
Its staggering that the powers that be are not getting their shit together
I couldn't give a toss if Christmas is an important time for some , I think being alive is important too and if we have a free for all for 5 days over Xmas then people are going to die . Doctors and nurses and porters and cleaners are putting their lives on the line and people are kicking up a fuss because they are going to have to wait 6 weeks till half term for the next family get together ?
The joy of government is that the people are stupid
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Re: Lockdown before Xmas, Welsh Intensive Care specialists
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
For many people, family is everything. And lots of people love Christmas. Imagine that you fall into both of those categories, but have elected to stay away from your family this year in order to be on the 'safe' side. And then imagine that one of your family members dies early in the New Year before you have a chance to see them again. I wonder how you'd feel about that? Would you console yourself with the thought that you'd done the 'right' thing?
Depends on the circumstances. If a person was terminally ill, then i'd be over to see them as much as possible. If a person was very sick and the general consensus was that they may not get through it, then the same, i'd be over to see them. If a person was just elderly, but fit enough and with no big health issues then i'd stay away.