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Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
View From The Ninian have been running a few Bellamy articles recently, including this one:
https://viewfromtheninian.com/2021/0...culture-shock/
This is why I want Craig Bellamy back involved with my club - even if there are risks and baggage involved - setting the culture and the standards.
“My biggest strength was my attitude towards training and being better. I have to have everything right. If a coach hasn’t lined everything up on the pitch, I’ll notice and I won’t be happy with that. Attention to detail has to be spot on because I’m driven that way. If you told me to do five minutes on the bike, I would have to do 10 otherwise I wouldn’t sleep well. Those little things can really irritate me.
At Cardiff, it was a different world to the professionalism I had seen. There were a lot of very good players, but then you realise why they’re here. That’s why you can’t get to the highest level. Turning up 20 minutes before training, travelling overnight and training with no sleep. I saw loads of lapses in mentality, but there were also a lot of good ones that were getting the best out of what they had.
Take Kevin McNaughton for instance. As a footballer, he didn’t have great ability, he was limited, but he had a great attitude to training and he got the best out of what he had. For me, he was a massively successful player. We had a lot of players that had the ability, but didn’t have McNaughton’s attitude and that’s why they were at that level.
A lot of this conversation is about Michael Chopra! I like him a lot, but I remember saying to him that this can’t happen. I had to be careful because I didn’t want to be seen as the big player from the big league, telling everyone what to do, but I can’t buy in to this sort of mentality. This idea that by changing him, you’ll take that little bit of devil out of him. He would be a better player! This is what’s stopping him because he’s not living his life right. He could have been way, way more.
I was always around players that were outstanding, not just in ability, but also in attitude. Their professionalism was frightening. Steven Gerrard, Vincent Kompany, they’re on another planet, but its not a coincidence that they are where they are. First in, last to leave. I had to compete with them and I didn’t have the same amount of ability, so I had to train even more. Come in even earlier, leave even later to give me an edge.
At Cardiff, the building was shut down at 1 o’clock! The physios went home. I could not get my head around the mentality of so many players there. You’re going to get caught out. If someone didn’t track back in training, it was OK.
I didn’t want to be the one to say this or that, but I did towards the end. I remember we played Barnsley and we lost a goal because someone didn’t track back and after the game, I lost it. I had enough. I think we drew 2-2 and it was a game we should have won comfortably.
Chopra would look at his phone at half time and I was astonished. So a physio stole it because he had clocked it too and had enough of it. We were losing and he was looking for his phone. Before we can even have a team meeting, he’s screaming ‘where’s my phone?’ I didn’t have a clue, until he refused to come on second half until his phone was given to him. I played the second half nearly in tears. I come out of that game thinking I’m not sure I want to play here anymore. I’ve never seen anything like that.
I knew Chopra as a young kid at Newcastle and he was only ever going to be that way. Jay Bothroyd was massive too and honestly, I loved him. I knew him as a kid at Coventry too and he was his own worst enemy because he had the ability to be a top player. He couldn’t sustain it because sustaining it is hard work.
How many of the top players at Cardiff, apart from Earnie and a few others from the area, went on and done well at other clubs? We fell in love with their ability, but they fell short of what they could have been.”
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
That's a good job application if ever there was one.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Should be our Manager with a 5-10 year plan to change the way the club's run from top to bottom
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
View From The Ninian have been running a few Bellamy articles recently, including this one:
https://viewfromtheninian.com/2021/0...culture-shock/
This is why I want Craig Bellamy back involved with my club - even if there are risks and baggage involved - setting the culture and the standards.
“My biggest strength was my attitude towards training and being better. I have to have everything right. If a coach hasn’t lined everything up on the pitch, I’ll notice and I won’t be happy with that. Attention to detail has to be spot on because I’m driven that way. If you told me to do five minutes on the bike, I would have to do 10 otherwise I wouldn’t sleep well. Those little things can really irritate me.
At Cardiff, it was a different world to the professionalism I had seen. There were a lot of very good players, but then you realise why they’re here. That’s why you can’t get to the highest level. Turning up 20 minutes before training, travelling overnight and training with no sleep. I saw loads of lapses in mentality, but there were also a lot of good ones that were getting the best out of what they had.
Take Kevin McNaughton for instance. As a footballer, he didn’t have great ability, he was limited, but he had a great attitude to training and he got the best out of what he had. For me, he was a massively successful player. We had a lot of players that had the ability, but didn’t have McNaughton’s attitude and that’s why they were at that level.
A lot of this conversation is about Michael Chopra! I like him a lot, but I remember saying to him that this can’t happen. I had to be careful because I didn’t want to be seen as the big player from the big league, telling everyone what to do, but I can’t buy in to this sort of mentality. This idea that by changing him, you’ll take that little bit of devil out of him. He would be a better player! This is what’s stopping him because he’s not living his life right. He could have been way, way more.
I was always around players that were outstanding, not just in ability, but also in attitude. Their professionalism was frightening. Steven Gerrard, Vincent Kompany, they’re on another planet, but its not a coincidence that they are where they are. First in, last to leave. I had to compete with them and I didn’t have the same amount of ability, so I had to train even more. Come in even earlier, leave even later to give me an edge.
At Cardiff, the building was shut down at 1 o’clock! The physios went home. I could not get my head around the mentality of so many players there. You’re going to get caught out. If someone didn’t track back in training, it was OK.
I didn’t want to be the one to say this or that, but I did towards the end. I remember we played Barnsley and we lost a goal because someone didn’t track back and after the game, I lost it. I had enough. I think we drew 2-2 and it was a game we should have won comfortably.
Chopra would look at his phone at half time and I was astonished. So a physio stole it because he had clocked it too and had enough of it. We were losing and he was looking for his phone. Before we can even have a team meeting, he’s screaming ‘where’s my phone?’ I didn’t have a clue, until he refused to come on second half until his phone was given to him. I played the second half nearly in tears. I come out of that game thinking I’m not sure I want to play here anymore. I’ve never seen anything like that.
I knew Chopra as a young kid at Newcastle and he was only ever going to be that way. Jay Bothroyd was massive too and honestly, I loved him. I knew him as a kid at Coventry too and he was his own worst enemy because he had the ability to be a top player. He couldn’t sustain it because sustaining it is hard work.
How many of the top players at Cardiff, apart from Earnie and a few others from the area, went on and done well at other clubs? We fell in love with their ability, but they fell short of what they could have been.”
Totally agree with all of it.
I would also add, once we know the football we want to play, sign players accordingly that fit.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
The problem i have with Bellamy is that he's talking like a player, not as a manager. He's relaying his standards, ethics, as a player. They're personal to him, how he saw himself. What we don't know is how his attitude towards himself and his standards as a player could translate to management and dealing with individuals who may struggle with certain aspects of the game but produce on a match day. Everyone could be better, getting a large group together and installing that belief and culture would take some serious man management on the part of Bellamy.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
The problem with that is he mentions not saying anything. Probably because he knew he would lose his rag. He obviously understands what it takes to become a top professional, but there's nothing there to suggest he could get the best out of player. Or that he has any tactical knowledge.
"I come out of that game thinking I’m not sure I want to play here anymore". Not exactly inspiring.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Bellamy was petulant , hot headed , impulsive and hot and cold as a player
On his day he was unplayable
I don't know if he would make a manager though 🤔
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
The problem with that is he mentions not saying anything. Probably because he knew he would lose his rag. He obviously understands what it takes to become a top professional, but there's nothing there to suggest he could get the best out of player. Or that he has any tactical knowledge.
"I come out of that game thinking I’m not sure I want to play here anymore". Not exactly inspiring.
He's talking as a player. Those thoughts have no bearing on how he gets the best from a group. Paulo Di Canio hada similar attitude to Bellamy, the bloke was obsessed with detail, training, method, work rate, maximising ability etc, yet as a manager he was a disaster. It's all well and good having very high standards, but how that's communicated towards a rather affluent work force is another matter.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
The problem with that is he mentions not saying anything. Probably because he knew he would lose his rag. He obviously understands what it takes to become a top professional, but there's nothing there to suggest he could get the best out of player. Or that he has any tactical knowledge.
"I come out of that game thinking I’m not sure I want to play here anymore". Not exactly inspiring.
To be fair he does say he didn't want to come across as the big time charlie telling everybody what to do
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
To be fair he does say he didn't want to come across as the big time charlie telling everybody what to do
That still implies that he knows better. He probably does, although a dangerous mind set to have for any manager in any industry, in my opinion.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
It sounds ideal and exactly the sort of philosophy you want in a club. It doesn't always transition to the manager role though. Look at Roy Keane for example.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManBearPig
It sounds ideal and exactly the sort of philosophy you want in a club. It doesn't always transition to the manager role though. Look at Roy Keane for example.
Bang on the money
A complete winner as a player , ok he was a thug .....
But useless manager
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
You can take the boy out of Cardiff......
Just keep him away from a golf club. I can well imagine he would have ended up detained at Her Majesty's pleasure for a considerable period of time if he had not become so successful on the pitch. A City legend but not management material at the moment. One day, maybe.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManBearPig
It sounds ideal and exactly the sort of philosophy you want in a club. It doesn't always transition to the manager role though. Look at Roy Keane for example.
yep, management is a skill that you usually have to learn .
Even if Bellamy can use his experience to see where a lot of faults are with the club, it doesn't mean he'd be able to turn it around without pissing everyone off.
Also if you listen to the likes of Roy Keane, as a pundit he attributes any team's problems to mentality, or pashun.
In the real world there are a lot of other things you ideally want your manager to be thinking about.
In Keane's playing days he was playing in a well oiled team, alongside extremely gifted players, so when that went wrong you could probably point to the mental side of the team as letting them down - that isn't the only problem in a lot of clubs.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Bang on the money
A complete winner as a player , ok he was a thug .....
But useless manager
Keane wasn't a thug, Sludge. There's no way he could've won what he did and performed at the highest level for so long if he was just a thug. In one of his books he mentions that he learnt in management that he actually needed the players on his side and that he couldn't expect all of them to go about their business in the way he did. Players like Bellamy and Keane are about doing everything to the maximum, they're the type of characters who would have to cut their grass better than the neighbours. Very high standards and a huge competitive edge. They both probably realised that they had limitations at an early age and in order to compete at the highest level they were going to have to work even harder than everyone else. That's what made them into top class players for a sustained period, Honesty and work rate that added to natural ability. Does that ethic translate into modern day football management, where established players have already set into a routine? I'm not so sure, although it would be fun finding out
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Keane wasn't a thug, Sludge. There's no way he could've won what he did and performed at the highest level for so long if he was just a thug. In one of his books he mentions that he learnt in management that he actually needed the players on his side and that he couldn't expect all of them to go about their business in the way he did. Players like Bellamy and Keane are about doing everything to the maximum, they're the type of characters who would have to cut their grass better than the neighbours. Very high standards and a huge competitive edge. They both probably realised that they had limitations at an early age and in order to compete at the highest level they were going to have to work even harder than everyone else. That's what made them into top class players for a sustained period, Honesty and work rate that added to natural ability. Does that ethic translate into modern day football management, where established players have already set into a routine? I'm not so sure, although it would be fun finding out
Keanes career ending tackle on that man city player was the action of a thug
End of debate
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Keane wasn't a thug...
luckily not in HD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_st29mlQwU
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
I think Bellamy would be more suited to a coaching role under someone with more experience and better people skills. I wonder what Bellamy thought of Whitts as a pro. My guess would be that it probably drove him mad that Whitts didn't try harder.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Keanes career ending tackle on that man city player was the action of a thug
End of debate
And that action defines his career? Incidentally, i think that Keane did the right knee (which recovered from the keane assault) Haland retired because of his left knee which had been giving him problems for a while, it wasn't the tackle from keane that finished him, Haland admitted that much in his book. End of debate?
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
And that action defines his career? Incidentally, i think that Keane did the right knee (which recovered from the keane assault) Haland retired because of his left knee which had been giving him problems for a while, it wasn't the tackle from keane that finished him, Haland admitted that much in his book. End of debate?
If you watch the tackle above on you tube and think that is not the act of a complete thug then clearly its pointless speaking to you on this matter .
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigjoe
Fecking dreadful challenge
And he did others too
Utter **** of a bloke
The way he treated mick Mccarthy was shocking
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
And that action defines his career? Incidentally, i think that Keane did the right knee (which recovered from the keane assault) Haland retired because of his left knee which had been giving him problems for a while, it wasn't the tackle from keane that finished him, Haland admitted that much in his book. End of debate?
Oh thats ok then. He actually retired because of the other knee.
That tackle was an assault.
Im sure Keane says something in his book like the ball was there.... I think.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
If you watch the tackle above on you tube and think that is not the act of a complete thug then clearly its pointless speaking to you on this matter .
Christ, how condescending. You're defining Keane's career on that one incident. It was appalling, but that doesn't take away hoe good a player he was.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Oh thats ok then. He actually retired because of the other knee.
That tackle was an assault.
Im sure Keane says something in his book like the ball was there.... I think.
Who said it was ok? The fact is that Haland retired because of the injury to his other knee, he admitted that, that's why there was no court action. I'm not saying it was right for Keane to do it, because there was no justification. I'm just stating a fact, calm your pants...
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Who said it was ok? The fact is that Haland retired because of the injury to his other knee, he admitted that, that's why there was no court action. I'm not saying it was right for Keane to do it, because there was no justification. I'm just stating a fact, calm your pants...
Im calm. Youve played to a decent standard.
I presume you accept Keane has set out to do him there.
If youd been playing and you or a teammate been done like that badly injured and for good measure abused by the player whod assaulted you as he was going off no remorse or apology I bet youd probably think the bloke was a thug or worse.
I dont think it should define his career. But totally accept anyone thinking he was a thug.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
How about we say that Keene was obviously more than just a thug?
He's not Vinnie Jones.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Im calm. Youve played to a decent standard.
I presume you accept Keane has set out to do him there.
If youd been playing and you or a teammate been done like that badly injured and for good measure abused by the player whod assaulted you as he was going off no remorse or apology I bet youd probably think the bloke was a thug or worse.
I dont think it should define his career. But totally accept anyone thinking he was a thug.
He was certainly a 'thug' at that given moment, and there's no excuse. If he had carried that behaviour throughout his career then i would call him a thug, although a thug who could play. What he did was disgraceful, although i find it hard to brandish him a thug per se.
And yes, he undoubtedly set out to do him, i'm sure he's said as much.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
How about we say that Keene was obviously more than just a thug?
He's not Vinnie Jones.
It's difficult, i reckon that it comes down to personality. He hated Haland because he mocked him when he was injured, Keane saw it as questioning his integrity as a professional, probably a bigger insult to keane than stamping on his knee during a game. Vinnie, Fash and co kicked people and finished some off because they couldn't play and were looking for notoriety, which came in spades. What Keane did was disgraceful, although in his mind i reckon that he can justify it, that's not to say that i'm defending him.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
That still implies that he knows better. He probably does, although a dangerous mind set to have for any manager in any industry, in my opinion.
Alex Ferguson and Brian Clough backed themselves I think :sherlock:
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Alex Ferguson and Brian Clough backed themselves I think :sherlock:
Ferguson and Clough didn't do an ounce of coaching, and they both allowed their players a night out or two. I don't think that players would respond well to that kind of management in today's environment. Not sure that's a good or bad thing though :xmasthumbup:
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Ferguson and Clough didn't do an ounce of coaching, and they both allowed their players a night out or two. I don't think that players would respond well to that kind of management in today's environment. Not sure that's a good or bad thing though :xmasthumbup:
Oh I thought you were talking about the idea of him thinking he's right about stuff
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
title of thread is about bellamy! que you lot babbing about keane ferguson clough etc etc
Bellamy would do a great job, his heart is in football and he knows a pile o shite when he sees one.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
That still implies that he knows better. He probably does, although a dangerous mind set to have for any manager in any industry, in my opinion.
He would try and get the best from his players.
I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on him.
Reading that article you know he is going to care at least as much as you do , his football knowledge is second to none .
Guaranteed success , no , of course not . But it has lots of positives in my mind.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Ferguson and Clough didn't do an ounce of coaching, and they both allowed their players a night out or two. I don't think that players would respond well to that kind of management in today's environment. Not sure that's a good or bad thing though :xmasthumbup:
They must have had the basics right before they let their players out?
If its just a matter of letting players go for a pint . If its just a matter of letting players out now and then I might apply for the job with Tomlin as my assistant....
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ToTaL ITK
title of thread is about bellamy! que you lot babbing about keane ferguson clough etc etc
Bellamy would do a great job, his heart is in football and he knows a pile o shite when he sees one.
That doesn't really set him apart from many people in football. The question is, if he sees "a pile o shite", what is he going to do about it? Has Bellamy even shown any interest in the job?
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
That doesn't really set him apart from many people in football. The question is, if he sees "a pile o shite", what is he going to do about it? Has Bellamy even shown any interest in the job?
In the opening post I was arguing for Bellamy to become involved in the club again and drive standards and establish a culture of professionalism and excellence. I'm not convinced he is right or ready for the manager job, although it might be a genius appointment if it was made. It would be a gamble.
He has made mistakes in the past, but my sense is that he has learned and matured and is constantly trying to improve his skills and his ability to manage and lead others. He seems pretty self aware when he has been interviewed in recent years, and recognises that managing and coaching is different when you are not surrounded by elite players and elite facilities. He is no mug.
Bellamy was appointed Cardiff Player Development Manager in summer 2016 after a period of volunteer coaching at the club. He was in charge of the u18s. He applied for the Wales manager job. He applied for the Oxford manager job before withdrawing (and I think he subsequently regretted that). He has been Anderlecht u21 manager since summer 2019. I imagine he would be very interested in the Cardiff City managers job if it ever became available.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
In the opening post I was arguing for Bellamy to become involved in the club again and drive standards and establish a culture of professionalism and excellence. I'm not convinced he is right or ready for the manager job, although it might be a genius appointment if it was made. It would be a gamble.
He has made mistakes in the past, but my sense is that he has learned and matured and is constantly trying to improve his skills and his ability to manage and lead others. He seems pretty self aware when he has been interviewed in recent years, and recognises that managing and coaching is different when you are not surrounded by elite players and elite facilities. He is no mug.
Bellamy was appointed Cardiff Player Development Manager in summer 2016 after a period of volunteer coaching at the club. He was in charge of the u18s. He applied for the Wales manager job. He applied for the Oxford manager job before withdrawing (and I think he subsequently regretted that). He has been Anderlecht u21 manager since summer 2019. I imagine he would be very interested in the Cardiff City managers job if it ever became available.
It was available just over a year ago. However, I always got the impression that Harris stepped down at Millwall because Warnock had pegged him his job when he did the same. Does anyone know?
Having said that, if Harris was sacked and Bellamy replaced him I wouldn't be too upset. At least it would be interesting. And we'd find out what he's capable of.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
That doesn't really set him apart from many people in football. The question is, if he sees "a pile o shite", what is he going to do about it? Has Bellamy even shown any interest in the job?
We will not get a manager who has proven his ability at this level or with his best management years in front of him.
So we have to compromise and make choices.I have long advocated Bellamy for the job. I hear that he gave a great interview for the Wales job prior to them giving it to Giggs. And there must be a reason Vincent Kompany chose Bellars to run his Academy. Nothing is without risk but Bellars is a risk worth taking.
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Re: Bellamy on his Cardiff culture shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
We will not get a manager who has proven his ability at this level or with his best management years in front of him.
So we have to compromise and make choices.I have long advocated Bellamy for the job. I hear that he gave a great interview for the Wales job prior to them giving it to Giggs. And there must be a reason Vincent Kompany chose Bellars to run his Academy. Nothing is without risk but Bellars is a risk worth taking.
Why not? We're a relatively big fish. We have a billionaire owner. We've spent two seasons in the EPL. We're clearly a club with long-term EPL ambitions even though we don't always show it.